Waiting for Merom?????????

I'm really in need of a laptop, really wanted to get w3j, but it seems it won't be out until may 1, which is kinda late.
so i'm planning to buy a mediocre notebook, then wait for the release of notebooks based on merom, then i'll take the plunge.
Does this approach seem applausible?
what u guys think?

 

Well in your personal situation only you can know whats best for you. It all depends on what kind of money your willing to spend and if you need it now or if you can wait or if you want to wait.

 

yohan and merom are pin to pin compatible. You should be able to just plop a merom into a core duo laptop with only a bios update. It hasn't been confirmed yet though.

 

It already work in certain notebooks. Can't confirm which ones though

Check it out here (3DMark2005 score).

 

You'll be throwing money away, but do it is you're inclined.

Personally less than 30 days to get a laptop you want (if you can still get the W3j at release) is worth the wait vs. throwing money away on a average laptop just to buy a new one in what - less than a year?

 

Just keep in mind your extended warranty will no longer apply if you do install the Merom yourself later down the road.

 

Quick question about merom notebooks...

To me, the merom switch seems like something that will be faily subtle. So am I to understand that the current yonah notebooks will simply be upgraded to the merom chipset under the current models? For example, when merom comes out, will the W3J just get a little update to merom? Or will a whole new model come out?

 

might depend on any new developments in graphics or new chassis designs...but i think it would be a simple refresh like they did with the older chipset.

 

i thought the merom is a watershed thing, because it's 64bit. does anyone know if yonah is 32 or 64 bit?

 

Yonah is 32

 

im pretty syre the yonah are all 32-bit. iirc, the merom is the 64-bit sister of the yonah.

 

I read an ariticle that says merom and yohan are actually compatible with each other.......................................
I really wish im more ignorant of what's going on with notebook computers, so that i can just settle on one.

 

yonah is essentially just a dual core dothan with some tweaks. Merom is a low voltage conroe made to replace yonah. It will be 64 bit, offer roughly 20% more performance per clock, and scale better. Next year Intel will move to the santa rosa platform and merom will see an up in fsb. yonah was just an introduction to the new "core" architechture, merom is the real deal.

 

that's about right chris, but you gotta wait another whole year before we see some nice Merom notebooks from ASUS.

In my opinon if u really need a laptop, get the W3J or V1J, also you prolly won't miss 64 bit or Vista or other 64 bit programs that much.

or if you can wait, then just wait. I would really like Merom right now, because of the incerase in batterylife..but ohwell, no biggie.

I just plan on buying two notebooks anyways, the V1J or W3J now, and then one more next year with a Merom or a Santa Rosa in it. something like that.

Thanks,

MysticGolem

 

I read some stuff that said that Yonah was the same chip as Merom and they just disabled the last bit to make it a 32 bit, this way they had time to work the kinks out without having to redo their entire manufacturing process. Makes sense to me, but it wasn't a certain thing.

 

Buy a lappy now... upgrade in a year. There will always be something better around the corner.

 

True but one has to make warranty considserations also unfortunately...

 

I forgot which thread covered this, but think about it this way.

Merom is going to be "released" in december of 2006, right? So your thinking that you will have a merom notebook in your hands by new years? Yeah right.

Yonah (duo) was "released" in the first week of January, yet it is still April and we are still waiting for the laptops to be made, let alone be able to be pre-ordered. It will then take a few weeks to get it. So that is like a 4-5 month wait after the technology is released.

New models with the duo core will still be comming out by the time merom will be released, but dont expect to get a merom laptop until nearly halfway into 2007, maybe even later because the duo lines will have not yet been cut out of production and might not end for a while.

If you can wait until mid / late 2007, I would and save yourself some cash, and stick to the equipment you have. That is unless you need a lappy soon / now.

I am positive that the performance boost from these 64 bit processors will be hardly noticeable, because 64 bit is still in its infancy, and relies heavily on software changes. Once perminent software changes are made to match the 64 bit processing, then you will see vast improvement (2008/2009?).

Right now, the first steps are being taken in this software transition. Examples include 64 bit windows and the upcomming Windows vista. Only now are newer games begining to utilize the 64 bit technology.

The bottom line: I can almost guarentee that if you have a computer a few years from now, you will have a 64 bit processor (or 128 bit? ), but for now, the technology cannot be put to its full potential, and thus I say buy dual core now (unless you can wait for merom in mid 2007), and leave 64 bit for later.

 

To defend Merom for just a second, it is supposed to be more efficient on pure power usage and it is supposed to be faster clock for clock than Yonah was - but can you honestly tell me that anyone using a laptop is going to need that tiny little bit of performance? Yeah, I like to get low times on Super Pi just like the next guy (or girl), but these things are getting so fast that the increases were talking about are splitting hairs that have already been split ten times over. You probably don't need to wait, and if you do but still need a laptop, $300 at best buy can go a long way.

 

Well, I was planning on getting a new notebook around fall, but I'll likely wait for merom, or possibly see how power consumption is on the Turion X2..I want to have 64-bit because this next laptop is going to have to last me for quite a while.....or I may just wait till laptops have integrated wireless usb, and bluetooth 3.0, lol...

 

One problem thus far with 64-bit architecture is that it isn't actualy 64 bits wide at any place. I can't remember where I was reading this, but the Athlon 64 bit processor is actually 40 bits emulating 64, and the Opteron is 48 emulating 64; the Pentium 4 with 64 bit enabled is still only 32 bits emulating 64, but I can't speak for the Xeon.
The reason that they do this is mostly for chip real estate. A 64 bit bus is huge on a chip, and it also doubles the size of ALUs, caches (for equivalent "word" storage), and pretty much everything else. And since it's all 386-derived, there aren't really any significant improvements to instruction sets, unless there is a new breed I haven't heard about. I haven't done much reading on Merom thus far.
It was a while ago that I was reading this; back when the Athlon 64 was getting into full stride and starting to take on the Pentium, and things may have changed since then, but if architecture isn't actually 64 bits, you're not going to notice as much of a performance increase. Does anyone know if Merom will be native 64 bit or some smaller number emulating 64? I guess you'd probably have to be an Intel insider or have some really good sources to get that kind of information.
Further, like it has been said, performance bonuses for the 64 bit architecture will only be realized when the code running on them takes full native advantage of the architecture; I don't know if there are many good compilers out there that do a really effective job for 64 bit architecture. 32 bits has had a long time to mature, and the compilers these days are pretty efficient. It's going to take a while before 64 bit comes into such maturity.
That's just my take, but like I said, I haven't been reading on the subject since late last year or early this year sometime, and I know nothing about Merom besides what's been mentioned here, which sounds pretty speculative. So take with a grain of salt.

Cheers,
Jay

 

I think Intel will be out with 2MB Merom last of 3Q/beginning of 4Q; I think there's a good chance that Yonah notebooks will have them as they are plug compatible. See the Intel Spring Developers forum writeup for that demonstration.

 

good, I was hoping the meron would be pin compatable... I just hope its worth it when they come out to put one in my W3J (when I get one ). who knows what architecture will be available then, what "new" features I will want

 

Some preliminary benchmarks comparing Yonah to Merom on the Calistoga platform can be seen here.

The Merom dropped right in and worked without a hitch. The notebook this was tested on was the Fujitsu Lifebook N.

 

waiting to buy something because of new technology will leave you in a state of constant wait. if you need it now, pull the trigger!

 

i had the same dilema and i ultimately decided on Yonah because of the time and the need for it right now.

 

Buying would have been an easy decision, but i kinda need it before may, which means i have to turn to other models. That's why i want to buy a ****py one first, like v2000, which looks pretty nice to me, and with the new laptop, i can wait for another year or so.

 

i dont know exactly what you are looking in a laptop, but maybe u can find other alternatives? v2000 is a nice bang per buck, but if you only want it for a year, it may be a waste of money.

how about the asus v6j? i know lots of people who couldn't wait for the w3j went for it and seemed satisfied.

 

As long as the Merom is using the same socket type as the Yonah core, I would buy the W3j. Later, if you "need" 64 (I have had a AMD 64 for about 2 years and never used a 64-but program) the Merom is an easy upgrade.

 

http://www.notebookreview.com/default.asp?newsID=2845

theres a merom ULV on the release list but using 533 mhz fsb? maybe it has same pin as pentium m 533 mhz?

 

I honestly don't see 64-bit becoming a 'necessity' until at least another two or three years down the line .. everything WILL also be available in 32-bit, and it'll take some time for people to actually start optimizing for 64-bit and getting the kind of speed increases that'll make it worthwhile. I don't see any reason to wait for what will be the better part of a year for Merom, particularly if you actually need a laptop now.

And btw: about what Jay was saying above about 'less bits emulating 64' - that's incorrect. The -processing- units in all of the 64-bit CPUs (AMD x86-64, Intel EM64T) are fully 64-bits wide. They'd be a joke otherwise. What you may have read is that the *address bus* isn't 64-bits wide - it's only 40-bit. All that that means is the CPU can only address 2^40 physical memory locations (that would be 1 terabyte) - which I'm sure you agree is PLENTY, for now. The data bus and ALU *are* in fact all 64-bit, which means the number-crunching that goes on is using 8-byte words.
Current 32-bit processors have a 32-bit data bus *and* address bus, which is probably why you got confused .. the 32-bit data bus means they work on 4-byte words; the 32-bit address bus means they can address 4GB of physical memory, which is a limit we *are* actually running up against right now.

 

Hey, that was a really helpful post, thanks for the contribution.

I also spent some time thinking about if I should wait. As most people are saying, 64 bit just isn't here yet, so there is no reason to spend the money or time on it. The new Yonah machines are plenty fast and capable, so just get one and have fun with it.

 

My pleasure

On the other hand, I'd actually like to note 64-bit capabilities would be really nice to have once software becomes widespread; it's really the fact that Merom and Yonah are pin-compatible that alleviates any worries I might've had about not waiting. Two, three years down the line, you can just upgrade the CPU and be right back up at the leading edge... it'll also be time enough for Intel to iron out any kinks they might have in the Merom release.

 

Wrong. If rumor is correct, you should be able to plop a Yohan into a Merom, not the other way around (at least not with 64-bit capability). The CPU itself is suppose to be 64-bit but disabled to 32-bit (like 400Mhz Duron's which are 533MHz disabled to 400Mhz). However, the corresponding Yohan chipset is 32-bit (otherwise this platform would be 64-bit now!). So you will probably be able to put a Merom processor into these Yohan chipsets, but you will not get 64-bit (again, just like you can take a 533MHz Duron and put it into the older platform for the Banias, but you'll got a drastic under clock because it will run at 400MHz).

Basically, if you need a laptop within the next few monthes, DO NOT WAIT FOR THE MEROM. If you are going to get one in August or so, then you shouldn't be making this post anyway :-|

 

Thanks for clearing that up... I believe I mentioned in my post that I wasn't sure about the details since it's been a while since I was reading that and I couldn't find my reference. I apologise for having misinformed anyone.

Jay

 

Nope.

"The new platform is essentially Napa, but with a Merom processor instead of Yonah. The other beauty of Merom is that it is 100% compatible with existing Yonah designs, meaning that all Core Duo notebooks today should be able to accept a Merom processor with at most a BIOS update."
- from Anandtech

 

Have been trying to say this for a month, now...I should have started another thread to promote more discussion; there are "xtreme" boards where peeps have dropped Merom protos into yonah MOBOs and ahchieved 20% better benchies.

Wake up peeps...been asleep for a month?
http://forum.notebookreview.com/showthread.php?p=1294765&highlight=merom#post1294765: 03-13-2006, 12:03 PM #17
Whitney
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Default Re: Has anyone heard of a new ASUS 14 A8jf?
Since this z35f, if it comes here in quantities will be Core duo plumbed and that means it's "'plug 'n play" with Core duo-2 (aka merom)...guess that means for another ~$200 to 400...we can have a 64-bit machino later in Q4 using this platform w/ its current mobo? (of course, if the z35f actually exists )
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In my opinion GET THE W3J it is an awasome machine.

After deciding to upgrade my laptop a while ago, I set forth reading laptop mags and reviews, so I could get up to speed and get the best system possible.

In a Quest for the best system possible, I have been waiting for "the next tecnology" to come round before I buy, to the point that it is now 2 years since I first started to look (as I have a functioning laptop I have no "need" to buy). you could go on doing this forever!

I also considered waiting for merom, but like other people have said, its is going to take time before the hardware rolls out in mainstream, and even longer for software to follow suite, I mean how long has apple been 64bit and microsoft are only just now adopting it?? long overdue I say!

I am getting a W3J and when 64 bit OS, processors and software have time to esatblish I will upgrade in 1.5 to 2 years.

I saw an article stating IBM have refined a 29 nanometer pricocess for making chips.........

Do it do it now

 

NZwave, that sounds like a good plan, im doing the same, im gonna be getting either a W3J or a V1J , and roughly 2-3 years after, gonna change the cpu from Yonah to Merom, when it comes time

Thanks,

MysticGolem

 

I have no idea how this reviewer goes from saying Merom is 100% compatible with Yonah to saying Yonah is 100% compatible with Merom (with a BIOS update). I've seen a few reviewers say this but descriptions of the current Napa architecture do not support this statement. I guess once Merom rolls around we'll see who's right. At least we all agree that waiting for a Merom is somewhat silly if you need a laptop soon.

 

The Core duo Yonahs have the same pin configuration as the Meroms that will be intro'd in Q4; the 1.6 and 1.8 versions, T5500/T5600 are significantly faster than their Yonah versions and are also EM64T. Published speculation is that the 1.6 will be around 15% cheaper than the Yonah equiv., too. If you can't wait, buy now and if you feel handy with a CPU and don't mind forking over another $250-$700, get your flavor of Merom and EM64T in Q4. The current Yonah's value will drop through the floor, of course, but if you do this, you probably don't care about your old Yonah's eBay price.

 

Just ordered a v2000z for $780 with a printer after all the rebates. Think that'll satisfy me for a 1 to 2 years. V2000z just looks so pretty to me. But anyway, What changed my mind is not only merom.it is so many changes that'll take place over the next year, the advent of 64bit computing, windows vista, blu-ray, directx10 graphic cards, etc.

 

^ Whenever I start to fret about those things, I remember that none of the changes over the next year are really that important to me (speaking on my own behalf...).

In terms of opportunity cost, I'd rather be actually using my W3j than wait for very expensive blu-ray or 64 bit processing to become the norm.

I just keep telling myself, everything that I want to do can be done going forward with most of the higher end models available.

 

64 bit is not a big deal

AMD has been producing 64 bit chips since long ago, and for compatibility issues there is rarely software for it. I have an athlon 64 3000+ on my desktop and the x86 version, still runs preety well and i dont feel the need to use a 64 bit OS yet

 

Not to mention Vista is going to run just fine in 32Bit...

 

One reason 64-bit is nothing now is because intel owns what, like 90% of the market? And they have been much less embracing towards 64-bit computing.. And that is why most developers haven't worked on 64-bit much, and at all. Because most people own intel PC's over AMD's. True that now just about every intel desktop supports 64-bit, but that has just been a fairly recent development... And, w/ laptops currently out-selling desktops, guess what...most of them are intel powered, and thus all 32-bit. But I have a feeling that w/ the advent of merom and vista, 64-bit will really start to take off...at least for us power users... Because let's face it...do we need 64-bit for IM?
Also, guess what... Mac OS has been 64-bit for quite a while now...and most people who have used macs and windows machines say that the macs run faster w/ less or similiar specs...

But I do agree with everyone else here, if you need a laptop now, then don't wait. Buy one now. I mean hell, I want a laptop w/ the new bluetooth that operates at 480 Mbps, wireless usb, integrated 802.11n, and integrated wi-max. This isn't going to happen for quite a while, so I'm going to buy a laptop when I need a new one. (fall-dec.)

 

hehe yah cvec7, lol.

kool, monk you bought a v2000z, that's nice, it really is a good notebook. be happy with it

Flaxx, where did you hear otherwise about Yonah being able to upgrade to merom + a bios upgrade... i only hear that it will work, but i speculate it won't but i have no proof.. im just skeptical.. lol.

the only futureproof thing that scares me is DX10 because what if the X1600 doesn't support it?

I don't care too much about 64 bit now, or even later, i don't care about blue ray... i don't even use Dvds lol.. not even once!... so that's outta my zone lol.

I just hope that the yonah can be upgraded to Merom because of the increase batterylife and increase performance and possibly less heat dissipation .

the 64 bit processing will be a bonus for me if everything works out.

Thanks,

MysticGolem

 

From the same article:

"Earlier today Justin Rattner mentioned that Merom platforms would offer more than a 20% increase in performance relative to the current Core Duo T2600 (2.16GHz) processors with no impact on power consumption. During a separate briefing, Intel's Mooly Eden showed a benchmark pitting a Dell Core Duo system against the same system with a Merom processor ( Eden literally swapped out the Core Duo CPU and stuck in a Merom processor, partly to showcase its backwards comptability)."

I really doubt that Intel would be flat-out lying to people at IDF '06...

flaxx: Could you link me to these descriptions of Napa you mention which say it isn't possible? I'd like to read em...

 

Okay, well as I said in an example before, you can put a 533MHz Dothan into a Montara platform (the first chipset for the Banias cores) but you'll lose features, namely you'll be at 400MHz and will thus have a drastic under clock since the max multiplier is locked.

In this case, the Merom that Intel demonstrated runs at a lower FSB (like the 400MHz Dothans), but there's still no mention of it running at 64-bit when they put it into the Core Duo's Napa platform. The added increase in performance comes from Merom's ability to do more work per clock cycle.

What this seems to mean though is that Merom will come in two FSB flavors (one tailored for the slower Napa platform and one for the faster Santa Rosa platform). This is great since it means that pin-modders will be able to over clock the Merom just like the 400MHz Durons.

All in all, a very interesting read, and if indeed this Merom processor is running in 64-bit mode (there was no mention or proof of it) in the demo, that means that the Napa platform IS indeed a 64-bit platform running in legacy mode (a BIOS upgrade cannot add the hardware necessary to go from 32-bit to 64-bit). I am almost certain this isn't the case but rather that Yonah (the processor) may have secret 64-bit capability, which I first read at Toms Hardware; however, if anyone finds subsequent articles of Intel proving/demonstrating Merom running in 64-bit mode on a Napa platform, I'd love the link.

 

I understand your reasoning; I was just asking if you had any links to articles that backed it up... would've been interesting reading.

I'm pretty sure the platform supports 64-bit... logic being Intel knew how quickly Merom would follow Yonah, so they designed the platform with 64-bit in mind, which just goes unused until they're ready with Merom. If you recall, they did a similar thing when they first introduced EM64T in Pentium4 ...

Also, I'm pretty sure if the change from Napa/Napa Refresh to Santa Rosa did something as significant as adding 64-bit capability, it would've been mentioned somewhere... the only thing I found reference to anywhere was the FSB bump.