Z70Va / NHC questions

Hello; I have a few questions about the Z70Va with NHC:

Firstly, are the temps reported by NHC correct? When idle, NHC reports a CPU temp of 81C (!) and a HD temp of 52C. I am running Windows Vista with NHC 2.0 beta -- perhaps these values are wrong? These values worry me though -- I can't keep my hand under the rear left corner of my notebook for more than 5 seconds because it's so hot. I believe my notebook has been running for quite some time under these temperatures, however, and I don't remember it ever freezing or rebooting from overheating.

Secondly, are there optimal values to set in NHC for Voltage controls? How do you know what to set for each multiplier/voltage? Does anyone have good default values to use?

Thirdly, is there a working ACPI configuration for Z70Va and NHC?

Lastly, is there a way to have NHC dim the screen brightness on battery? I tried Power4 Gear, but I noticed that it wouldn't adjust the screen brightness at all.

Thanks.

 

When was the last time you cleaned the heatsink?

 

Never. I'll open it up now and see if I find any buildup.

 

i will say this. z70va turned out to almost be a lemon. suffers from a very poor thermal design as well as other hardware issues that turned up over the years. screen ghosting, audio dj dying, and wors yet poor thermal design, the problem starts with the dedicated vga fan. no need for one. they figured it out with the napa platform. that fan and heatsink can not be cleaned by the end user. it gets clogged then the plastic starts melting around it then the notebook takes a crap. z70va needs to be serviced by a dealer after 2000 hours of just being on. thats about 12 hours a day for a half year. to avoid meltdown you should have it serviced atleast (if you get over 4000 hours of on time on this without problems then you must live in a lint/dust free environment) every 4000 hours

 

you could also use another program like everest home edition or rmclock + hdtune.

 

Thanks for the heatsink advice; I just opened it up and found a moderate amount of dust that I cleared. That knocked the computer down to 70C while idle. Even with the drop, though, isn't 70C rather high?

I'm assuming that was the CPU fan... I also tried looking for the GPU, but I couldn't find a slot that would allow me to access it. Is that would the part in the rear right section of the laptop is? According to Geared2play there's no way to get to it...that's pretty frustrating, considering it probably builds up like any other fan (and probably looks similar to the CPU fan I just cleared). What prevents the normal end user from accessing the GPU, and how does the dealer get to it?

 

70C idle is still high. I'm guessing you probably have to take the thing completely apart which is not much fun at all.

 

it usually looks worse actually
What prevents you is simply a complex assembly. Google z70va pdf you will find the entire manual.

 

So it's doable, just more complex than it should be?

 

I don't know if I would consider any laptop disassembly 'doable' unless you are a laptop tech who does it daily for a living. There is a good chance you will muck something up and be left with a non-working machine.

I've taken apart a couple non-functioning laptops, and I was very glad they were already broken, because they sure wouldn't work after I got my hands on them!

 

Great...perhaps I'll give it a shot, and if I see that things are starting to get over my head I'll back out and put it back together. The worst part is I don't even know if there's even anything in there making it worth pulling apart...but I guess I won't know that until it's actually done.

 

Have you undervolted the CPU at all? I cut 5-10C off my P-M 760 that way.

 

I disassembled my notebook the other night. It was rather time consuming and annoying with the dozens of screws, but I finally managed to get do to the GPU. However, there really wasn't much dust buildup at all. At least I know how to service my notebook if I ever need to again in the future.

Jumper, I've been trying undervolting all morning. I'm not exactly sure if I'm doing it correctly, but what I've been doing is lowering it one by one in NHC and running PCMark05 every few increments to ensure stability. The odd thing is, I was able to drop all the way down to 1.052V on a 15x multiplier (the default is 1.356V!) before encountering any errors. I then bumped it up to 1.068V. Naturally, temperatures are significantly lower (now upper 50s when idle) and the fans are quieter. I figured that there might be some kind of performance hit after such a dramatic voltage drop, so I ran two full system benchmarks in PCMark, and I found that PC performance went UP (considerably!) with the lower voltage setting. Is this all normal? Is there anything to be worrying about? If not, that was certainly quite a fix-all! :-D

 

Performance should stay the same with undervolting. What could have been happening is that at the higher voltage the computer was throttling the CPU to keep the temperature down.

 

That makes sense. So it is best to run at the lowest possible voltage without getting any errors or instability issues? There's no reason to run any higher?

 

I run Prime95 in torture test max heat mode, one per core. I let it heat up first, and then start stepping the voltage down. It's up to you how much voltage margin you give it after you find the lowest stable point. No there is no point in running it at a higher voltage if you're comfortable with the margin you gave it.

It's not just temperature that you're improving, you're also getting better battery life.

 

Thanks. I've noticed that my notebook is always on a 15x multiplier...when does that change? Shouldn't it be dropping when I disconnect the AC?

 

It should be dropping every time you are not using the CPU intensively.

I would guess it's an NHC bug with Vista. And I would also guess that was causing your 70 degrees temperature -- the CPU always running at max speed.

Try uninstalling NHC, see if you get Intel SpeedStep to change the CPU multiplier automatically. If so, stay without NHC. It is worse to run the CPU at max multiplier undervolted, than with speedstep and stock voltage.

If you don't solve the problem by removing NHC, try updating ACPI drivers, if you don't already have the latest version. If you do, another application for CPU control is the only answer -- RM Clock is an option but I don't think it works in Vista (yet?).

 

By the way, I have my M6Ne which is very similar in design to the Z70Va running after the RMA (which I hope included a dust cleaning) for almost a year now, on average 4-5hours a day, and it seems to be doing well thermal-wise. I've cleaned only the CPU fan once, and only approximately, without removing it (via the opening on top) (the m6 fan is more difficult to remove than z70va due to lack of quick-access panel on notebook bottom).

I would say that these older 15.4 machines actually accumulate less dust than the newer, thinner, smaller, hotter notebooks, because the fan doesn't have to do much work. That is why you didn't find much dust in neither of the fans.

 

FYI, the Z70va, as Eddie alluded to, tends to run warm in general, so there's a limit to how cool you can get your notebook. However, high 50s from low 80s is a drastic improvement!

 

Ugh...I've disabled NHC, reinstalled the ATK drivers, and updated the Intel INF drivers...but CPU-Z still reports that the multiplier is 15x. My power scheme is set to balanced. I don't see any SpeedStep related settings in the BIOS that I can configure.

If I boot without the AC plugged in, the computer starts (and stays) at 6x, even if I plug the AC back in. The only way to bring it back to 15x is to reboot.

Does anyone have any ideas as to how to get this working?

 

I suggest you try hard to find this...

Otherwise, the only solution is another software for CPU control, and I don't know any other that's working with Vista. Isn't the Power4Gear able to do the trick? Maybe it's been updated for Vista (I know you mentioned it doesn't do brightness changes but if it is able to control the CPU, forget about the brightness you'll change it by hand.)

 

I actually found something that enables ACPI in NHC the other day. However, it only alters the fan, brightness, wireless, and bluetooth.

I just tried Power4 Gear again and, unfortunately, it also doesn't change the multiplier automatically. It does, however, change the clock to a constant setting if you choose a different profile (quiet office uses a x10 mutiplier; battery uses x6). Perhaps this is by design?

That gave me an idea, though; I remembered that NHC has a "Use only multiplier #1 and voltage #1", so I'm going to set up a bunch of profiles in NHC similar to P4G that allow me to use certain multipliers depending on the chosen NHC profile. I'd really like to see the multiplier fluctuate automatically, but for now this is a decent compromise.

 

I'm at the point of trying to get the top module to seperate from the bottom. After that do you have access to the gpu? I'm trying to seperate it with the cpu still inside. Is it possible or do you have to take (everything) out and not just the screws.

One side looks like its coming apart easily at one corner but the corner near the audio dj still is fastened shut

 

You have to take everything out; the GPU is on the underside of the motherboard, so it's pretty much the last thing you get to. Once you're at the point of having the top module separated from the bottom, though, you're not too far off.

 

Yep, it seems to be. You should be able to keep the multiplier at lowest when you're not doing CPU-intensive tasks and if P4Gear doesn't allow it (seeing that Quiet Office is higher than minimum, and that Battery Saving is only available on battery) then you should use NHC.

Are you sure though that it doesn't switch automatically when using Power 4 Gear? What are you using to monitor the CPU speed? The Windows System Properties box is not reliable for dynamic-switching CPUs. In XP I am using mobile meter; again I am not sure what is a good alternative for Vista.

If you are forced to use single-multiplier profiles, you will see some performance drop when on lowest multiplier but I don't think it will be very significant.

It's rather sad that Vista is having so many problems with these things. It is an older computer, but anyway...

 

I was using CPU-Z to monitor the CPU multiplier. I watched it after installing P4G, but it stayed at 15x.

I've never looked at it before recently. Perhaps this is how it has always worked? I can at least tell myself that to make me feel better.

 

No, it's not as it's always worked (if the reading is correct and indeed in keeps the multiplier fixed). In XP Intel Speedstep is working properly, I'm sure, without the need for any additional software.

 

Oh well; thanks for all the help. One last question: is there no tool that could automatically adjust the CPU multipliers to replace SpeedStep? NHC demonstrates that it's clearly capable of setting the CPU multiplier on demand, and it's trivial to determine the CPU usage. Wouldn't it then be fairly straightforward to automatically adjust the multiplier based on CPU usage?

 

It is. Check the box for Custom Dynamic Switching in the second (from left) tab's page in NHC. This will, in fact, allow NHC to automatically adjust your multiplier/CPU freq to various levels based on the CPU load at any given moment.

I can get you the undervolt values from my 740, which have been rock-solid for over a year; min 0.700V, max 1.052V. They only run up to 13x multiplier, however. PM me if needed.

For a more thorough discussion on undervolting the P-M, I highly recommend ikovac's guide, which can be found here.

 

I don't have such an option anywhere. Go figure. I don't understand why it would be disabled...NHC is obviously capable of changing the multiplier.

 

NHC has problems with Vista, as I have already said. I think your best bet is to get rid of NHC. And, if Power4Gear doesn't work properly, get rid of that as well. Then monitor your CPU frequency with something non-intrusive (don't know what that would be though, in Vista, maybe System properties...), and see if dynamic switching takes place.

Or you can just run some CPU test and determine the speed at which it is completed from the time in which it is completed. Do this first with p4gear on and the CPU locked at min multiplier, and then with p4gear off. If the test completes noticeably faster, but the computer stays cool and relatively silent when idling, then it's almost sure that it is doing dynamic switching of the multiplier values.

 

I finally got it working perfectly. I removed NHC and tried RMClock, which you mentioned before. I set it to the Performance on Demand profile, and I finally see the CPU multiplier changing. Woohoo!

 

Good.

Also good to know RMClock works in Vista. You are using Vista, aren't you?

 

Yep.

Unfortunately, it looks like I spoke too soon, though, since now I'm having problems with the sound. It's very choppy whenever a profile with PST is enabled. Hopefully Dmitri can provide some insight to my problem.

Other than that, all is well.