1640 Throttling - post here

With Dell, it is hard to say who is phoning to complain. It might be frustrated Latitude E6400/E6500 owners or Studio owners or XPS 1640, 1645, 1647 owners or maybe they have a high performance Alienware M15x or M17x gaming rig or a high dollar Precision business laptop. The list goes on and on. All of these different models and many more have the same throttling problems.

 

Be sure to make a complaint about the apparent removal of the studio xps line from dell chat (an issue that I believe they just aren't bothering to fix).

 

well after 1 hour and 27 minutes and 16 seconds of wasted cell phone minutes and running multiple tests with Dell, the rep has decided to replace my fan and motherboard/heatsink/gpu because he asked if the laptop was hot and I said that it was hot and the fan was loud and running at full speed while running furmark (although I didn't mention that it was furmark). He says that the fan may be loose or there may be loose screws or something along those lines. He also mentioned that the laptop was an upgrade from my old m1330 (see sig).

He didn't even mention the power adapter once and I don't like to recommend things (I prefer to act ignorant to any problems so that it doesn't sound as though I'm trying to take advantage because I'm truly not I just want a laptop that does what I paid for). Either the next time I call or the time after I'll mention that I did some research online and found out that many other people were having a eerily similar problem. He is a very nice guy and has been very helpful so I want to stay on his good side for the next call I'll be making next week after the tech has come and replaced the parts

dang, if I had seen your post apoutwest I would've mentioned something. The rep did say that Dell is updating their servers or something so wait times are increased.

 

After the parts have been replaced, while the tech is still there, why not run a benchmark or two and find out if it still throttles. That way you can tell the tech that their solution is not satisfactory which should speed up the process. Recent versions of HWiNFO32, CPU-Z and RealTemp will all confirm throttling so it will be more difficult for a tech to argue.

http://www.cpuid.com/softwares/cpu-z.html
http://www.hwinfo.com/
http://www.fileden.com/files/2008/3/3/1794507/RealTempBeta.zip

Stop feeling guilty. They gave you a replacement laptop with a CPU that throttles so badly that it doesn't perform anywhere near how the P8600 that you originally paid for is designed to perform.

 

So how do you recommend I go about showing the tech? Run furmark, prime95 and cpuz at the same time and look at the multiplier to see when it drops and show the tech when it drops?

wow ok i just did that now (had furmark open for two minutes then opened prime95) and acccording to cpuz as soon as prime 95 opened the multiplier immediately dropped to 6.0x at a Core Speed of 1596.0 MHz and occasionally jumps back up. If this happens again when I show the tech I assume it will suffice?

If just furmark or just prime95 is running nothing happens, but when both are open the multiplier drops to 6.0 immediately.

Whenever the mulitplier returns to 9.5 the temperature according to Real Temp immediately jumps 5 or 10 degrees, so perhaps it is a heat related cause or perhaps it just a side effect. It seems strange that the cpu would begin throttling below 90 degrees C.

 

When you throttle a CPU, the core temperature changes immediately. It will decrease when throttling starts and increase as soon as throttling ends, as long as the load is consistent. Throttling is usually power related but because it is directly linked to core temperature, it can sometimes be difficult to isolate the reason for throttling.

Here's my post about my Latitude D830 that can run both Prime95+Furmark at full speed without any overheating or throttling.

http://forum.notebookreview.com/6382811-post552.html

Some of the newer XPS 1645 models with an updated ATI 5730 GPU can also run Furmark+Prime95 at full speed.

http://forum.notebookreview.com/6399285-post170.html

If the tech says that this load is too much load for a laptop then ask him why other Dell models can run this load without the throttling issues that you are having.

If you get lucky, maybe he will suggest to head office to replace your laptop with the above XPS 1645 model that actually works. Some of these new models still have throttling issues so it's certainly not guaranteed. The next option would be an XPS 1647 with a Dual Core. I think a high percentage of these don't throttle but I haven't been keeping close track. Ask for a Dual Core that runs at a similar MHz speed to your original. Considering all the time you've wasted with this problem, you deserve it.

 

unclewebb, has there been reported throttling issues with any of the i5 cpu's? Are the temps also better with those? I think im going to try getting a 1647 as a replacement for my unit...rather than taking a chance on a replacement of the same model. I don't understand how some users here have the same config as me yet see no throttling, or at least no throttling while playing games.

 

I haven't kept up with the recent XPS 1647 models. An i7-620 Dual Core has a TDP power rating 10 watts less than the XPS 1645 so that will help but if they are shipping the XPS 1647 with a 90 watt adapter, you might still be on the edge of throttling.

The Dual Cores run at a higher MHz so you might not see a significant difference in laptop temperature. The cooling system in these is marginal. The XPS 16 is over due for an update.

 

So I'm thinking when the tech "repairs" the laptop I'll run the programs to check for throttling and then pull up your posts unclewebb and just be like...look here dude....fix that!

 

I have been using an xps studio 1640 for more than a year. I have noticed a slow down in flash animations from time to time as if something was "sucking" cpu power. I couldnt identify the problem until i read this thread.

Is there any guide to test step by step the throttling issue efficiently? I want to be sure if my laptop has this annoying issue.

 

Just download ThrottleStop and check off the Log File option. Play whatever game or Flash animation you like and it will keep track of your CPU's performance while you play.

If the recorded multiplier is dipping down below the default towards 6.0 or clock modulation is being used on your computer and is showing less than 100% then that is a sign of throttling.

 

Documents show that Dell knowingly sold defective computers

Documents show that Dell knowingly sold defective computers, misled those needing support -- Engadget

 

Right, well I just took my 1640 to a mate's for a quick LAN and the throttling was terrible - an hour of TF2 was all it took.
Now, it did get very hot, but I think my problem is relating to the AC adaptor, as I have the small one and it gets baking hot - too hot to touch.
It looks very thin, reckon it's the defective one?

 

Tech came today and he didn't have time to hang around for a somewhat prolonged test. He replaced the fan (which was kind of gummed up with dust) and the heat sink unit. Also gave me the 130 watt power supply.

The problem still exists though (no surprise) the new fan did help a little it now takes about 20 minutes to throttle (before it was about ten) and it stops throttling quicker but still throttling.


By apoutwest at 2010-06-30

Here is a prime test...


By apoutwest at 2010-06-30

Worth noting is the fact that the processor only reached 90 degrees C before throttling began 15 degrees lower than the processor's danger point.

Called dell again they wanted to replace the mother board, I told them I didn't want a motherboard replacement and that I felt this was an endemic problem within the 1640 line. She talked to her supervisor and their sending my request up the pipe.

We'll see what happens.

 

apoutwest--the exact same thing (mostly) happened to me today. The tech just left and he had another repair to do so he couldn't stick around for any sort of prolonged test.

He replaced the motherboard, heat sink/fan, and replaced my 90W adapter with a 130W. Everything seemed to be working fine and the computer wasn't getting as hot on normal use. I then began running tests and while running Furmark/Prime95 SURPRISE the computer started throttling! But the good news is that it doesn't throttle as badly I suppose. Rather than dropping as low as before consistently it does more of a sporadic drop to a higher number than before. I suppose that is an improvement. Unfortunately I'm going out of town until next week so I'll have to hold out on a follow up call to Dell until then. I'm on the A10 BIOS rather than the A14 that I think I was on before, so that may be the cause of different throttling. Interestingly enough the temperature never even got that high.

I'll update you guys next week after my next call to Dell.

 

Well good to know that a MoBo replacement wont do me any good they still might make me try one before I get that replacement.

On the plus side the support teach I found seems to be quite helpful and sympathetic she didn't try to convince me I didn't need a replacement or anything. And she actually returned calls when she said she would (dell seems to have a real issue calling when they say they will).

I'm going to lobby for a studio 17 with rgbled and some sort of dedicated graphics card.

 

I have the 1640 with a very obvious throttling issue. My motherboard, CPU, heatsink, fan, battery, RAM, and power adapter have all been replaced twice already, and now the throttling is pretty much unbearable again.

I called Dell XPS support today, and asked to speak with a supervisor directly. When asked what the issue was, I presented the rep with the very conclusive ThrottleStop log contents, various benchmarking results indicating throttling down to as low as 853MHz, and talked in depth about the community response on these forums and elsewhere about this issue.

Surprisingly, after I explained all of that, he didn't try to tell me I was wrong, but instead admitted the throttling fault. I have an order put in for an upgraded replacement model and am also supposed to be getting a call back from a Tier 3 Business Executive Support Manager tomorrow. I'll update here after the call tomorrow with more details.

 

When Dell sends out a replacement laptop for example...do you have to send yours back first or do you send the original unit back AFTER you recieve the replacement?

 

Ask this person who calls you what other people with a similar situation such as yours should do

 

You hold onto our original until you get the replacement. When you receive the replacement, hopefully you also get the Fedex return sticker label that should be there (If it ain't there, call Dell for it). Then you have 10 days after the receipt of the replacement to return the original to Dell using the box the replacement came in and the return label. Dell might call after about 10 days to confirm you've sent the original out, say "Yes I have, bye bye." Drop the phone, and you're all done . Simple enough.

 

That gives me hope that they won't try to jerk me around too much before they offer me a replacement.

What did they offer you? And did they allow you any input in deciding what they would replace your xps with?

 

Well, I rung Dell and apparently because I'm not the original owner I stand no chance of getting the new charger, or in fact any support at all. Are there any places where I can buy one?

 

where'd you get your computer?
probably ask the person who sold you that if you can still find the original owner.
if it's still under warranty it's worth it.

 

it's an ex police computer, so I can't switch the warranty over to myself. I'll give the guy a ring though and see what I can do. Failing that, is there any links to where I can buy a 130W adaptor - I reckon if I change the TIM, undervolt the CPU and use a cooling pad for long periods of use then it should be fine as long as I have the 130W adaptor.

 

warranty is still with the computer.
ownership transfer should be done (from Dell's side)
and it can only be done once you have verified who the original owner listed on their records.

it could be the ex-police's name.. or maybe he got it thru employee purchase discount from the company he works for.
you just need to verify that with him and then call dell to double check with them.

an ac adapter may cost you about $90 if you're gonna buy from a local store.
just an estimate bro

 

Knowing Dell, they'll jerk you around, but good luck.

As far as the replacement goes, that's what I have to talk to the rep today about when they call. I'll post details of it once I receive that call.

 

Thanks for those replies guys, it seems they are indeed intent on jerking me around.
The problem is, the warranty is a collective one for all the computers in the police force, and it one cannot be taken out of it - if they were to put the warranty in my name then all their computers would be.
I tried giving my friend's details and had no luck, but then again the "agent" didn't even know what the police were, so who knows what details Dell have......
I made a post about it on their forums here, as far as I'm concerned, the computer is under a year old, they know that, they can see that I have the laptop in front of me and therefore I should get a replacement charger for it. It's not like I'm asking for an upgraded system, I just want a ****ing charger.
Would anyone be kind enough to link me to the exact charger model I need in case I end up having to buy one?
I made a post at Dell forums here, doubt I'll have much luck though.
Thanks

 

Just got conformation dell is sending me a studio 1749 with i'm not totally sure what (i'll try to call back in a few days to see if I can get details).

Note* I only received one service call and no mother board replacement crap etc. So either Dell is more willing to acknowledge the problem or everyone else is being a little to soft on dell .

Let them try one replacement and when that doesn't work tell them you think this is a problem with the entire 1640 line and you want a replacement.

If they say no call again and try for a new rep.

 

Got a replacement 130W adapter and still having throttling issues. Its not a power issue any longer since I got the new adapter but I think heat. While playing dirt 2 my CPU core temp hits 100C then reduces the multiplier to 6X.

Throttlestop is a great program and lets me keep gaming longer than 15min but to the expense that my components keep getting hotter. Also noticed after awhile my 4670 will under clock to like 375MHz from 675 and memory will go to 400Mhz from 800.

I will be calling Dell soon. Best outcome would be a replacement. I will try to tell them motherboard, fan, battery, ect replacement will not help as many of you have pointed out and will cost them more in the long run having a tech replace parts rather than just upgrading me.

Does the 1647 have the same problems? The 1645's are even worse with throttling right? I really love my Studio XPS.

 

Idk which models have problems or how bad but you should be very firm that you don't want a mobo replacement. Though if your trying to get a 1645 or 1647 the more parts the replace the better chance you have .

 

Well, I replaced the TIM on my XPS yesterday and it's made a huge difference, temps on the video card never go over 80, and on the CPU I haven't seen over 85. It seems to have fixed the throttling problem, but the AC adaptor still gets extremely hot and makes popping noises.

 

What temps were you seeing before?

 

~90 on the GPU, ~100 on the CPU. The paste was applied really badly - loads had been put on and it had all gone to the sides of the die, away from the actual CPU/GPU cores.

 

I'm getting a replacement but for everyone else's knowledge and benefit it is worth knowing that the for whatever reason the 1640 doesn't only throttle under heavy load. (note* I do have 130 watt power adapter)


By apoutwest at 2010-07-02

Note the very low temperature in both cores the computer is NOT working hard (just web browsing and watching a low res video)


By apoutwest at 2010-07-02

This is my screen roughly at the time of throttling...

Anyone have a clue why it would be throttling under these conditions?

 

Intel SpeedStep. Basically, when you're not doing anything intense the CPU throttles down to save power. That's the good kind of "throttling."

 

It would be good if it weren't for the fact that It was causing the video(s) that I was watching to lag horribly.

 

Your screen shots don't show any CPU throttling. A P8600 has a default multiplier of 9.0 and when lightly loaded and Intel Dynamic Acceleration kicks in, the multiplier will cycle between 9.0 and 9.5. The CPU is operating within that range so it is fine.

Stuttering while watching a video on line is either caused by a slow internet connection or it can also be caused by your GPU using its low speed 2D settings instead of its 3D settings. Run a program like GPU-Z and you should be able to see if the GPU MHz and memory speed drop when trying to play a video.

If you want ThrottleStop to report your core temperature then just add TJMax=105 to the ThrottleStop.ini configuration file.

With 82 processes running on your computer, maybe have a look in the task manager and see if there is any junk that you really don't need running all the time.

 

Im glad your getting a replacement. It seems dell Canada is reluctant to give me a replacement. When playing sc2 and Wow my pc will throttle to the point were the game is a slide show. Dell brushes it off and sends another motherboard saying nothing is wrong and this is a good will gesture. I think the only way im going to get a replacement is if i lie and say im getting artifacts or something

 

It took Dell 6+ months to finally admit and document that a 90 watt adapter is inadequate for the XPS 1645 and needs to be upgraded because of throttling. Maybe 6 months from now Dell will have a similar announcement for the XPS 1640 that also has massive throttling issues when using a 90 watt adapter.

Studio XPS 1645 Power Supply Upgrade

You need to go above the Dell front line rep you are dealing with and need to escalate this matter to someone higher up so you can get a laptop that is capable of working at full speed. The XPS 1640 is not capable of that.

 

Still, after admitting this, They are milking money from SXPS with same 90 watt adapter !!! God knows when they will come with a complete refresh of SXPS

 

Hi guys. I also have XPS 1640 (2.53GHZ proc), and like 2 weeks ago i got replacement 130W PS. Unfortunatly nothing has changed except PS is not burning that hot that you can fry eggs on it, now it is little normal. But trottling is still happening

So what do you suggest? Trottlestop? What variables should i use? Wich multiplyer? What voltage? Processor is P8700, 2.53GHz.

Other thing that i read is this "TIM" ? What is that? By changing that has performance improved?

Thx for answers!

 

TIM is the thermal interface material or thermal paste between the CPU and heatsink. Changing that can help reduce your core temperatures.

The 130 watt power supply doesn't cure throttling because the bios does not seem to take full advantage of it. At least you won't get burnt when picking this one up. Keep bugging Dell until the give you a laptop that doesn't throttle.

 

Ah that. I call it just 'paste'

10 minutes ago i opened up laptop and cleared old paste, got new paste and put it both to CPU and GPU. We will see afternoon when i get in WoW and put game in full details how much it will dure

And regarding Trottlestop, what values to use to undervolt processor so trottling will happen less frequent? I see that there are some programs that you have to let work for 24 or 48h and they will tell you optimal value for this. But aparently here on this thread we all have same laptop, and some of you successifuly run trottlestop, so spare me those 24-48h and share those values

 

It doesn't work like that, every processor is different, that's why the values are so high in the first place, since it's just a failsafe to make sure that 100% of the CPU's intel make will work properly. In reality, only a fraction of a percent actually need that much voltage but it's just easier to do things that way. While I can get away with 0.9875 on my 9x multiplier, some people might not even be able to pull off 1.0000 while some people may be able to go as low as 0.9500, so there really are no universal values that all will accept. In reality it doesn't take 24 hours to get the right ones, more around 2-ish. Just run a stress test for half an hour and once you find a setting which is stable and gets no errors for half an hour, bump it up a notch or two and you should be fine. You can probably get a little lower than that method would allow, but that's when it takes a lot of time.

 

If your still within warranty you really can get your system replaced. Further I really think you should partly because you deserve it and partly because dell needs to be shown that selling faulty product isn't worth it...

Idk how much this issue has cost them but every laptop replacement comes off of their profit so as a knowledgeable customer please for everyones sake call and give them hell about it

 

Well laptop is only 3 months old, and warranty is like 3 years, so yeah, I am still within warranty. But due to complications even to get this power supply replaced, it'll take forever to do complete laptop replaced

 

So I just got the call from the dell case manager. My new system will be at my doorstep via fedex tomorrow morning, and I have confirmed this by tracking the package. Considering the fact that I just called in demanding a replacement on Thursday of last week, and only spoke to him to have the process started on Friday, I'd say that was pretty fast turnaround. He informed me that the system had been shipped out on Friday night, just a matter of hours after I spoke to him. Then I found out he expedited the order because of how knowledgeable I was about the issues I was having with my current system regarding the throttling. I even cited NBR forums as a reference to backup my claims. So I would suggest to just pursevere, and keep working your way up to anyone who is having issues with Dell refusing to replace their system. In my case, I spoke to the manager and the supervisor of the Technical Department with XPS support, and then to their superiors. Finally I asked to have my issue escalated further, and was then dealing with a representative in their escalation department. Using this method, the total turnaround time for me to get a replacement system from when I started trying to do so was about 4 business days, start to finish.

The new system specs are as follows:

-Intel® Core™ i7-820QM Quad Core Processor 1.73GHz (3.06GHz Turbo Mode, 8MB Cache)
-Genuine Windows® 7 Home Premium, 64bit, English
-8GB Shared Dual Channel DDR3 at 1333MHz (2x4GB)
-Edge-to-Edge FHD Widescreen 15.6 inch WLED LCD (1920x1080) W/2.0 MP
-500GB 7200 RPM SATA Hard Drive
-Dell Wireless 370 Bluetooth Module (2.1+EDR)
-Intel® 5300 WLAN Wireless-N (3x3) Mini Card
-Dvd+/-rw And Bd-rom
-ATI Mobility Radeon™ HD 5730 - 1GB
-85 WHr 9-cell Lithium Ion Primary Battery w/ 130W adapter
-Soundblaster X-Fi Hi Def Audio - Software Enabled
-10/100/1000 Ethernet

And here are the specs of the one they are replacing (Studio XPS 1640):
-Intel Core 2 Duo P8600 @ 2.40GHz
-Windows 7 Home Premium 64bit
-4GB DDR3 RAM (2x2GB)
-16 inch WLED screen (1366x768) w/ 2.0MP webcam
-500GB 5400rpm hard drive
-Intel 5100 agn wireless
-Dvd+/-rw And Bd-rom
-ATI Mobility Radeon HD 3670 - 512MB
-56 WHr 6-cell battery w/ 90W adapter
-IDT 92HD73C1 Audio
-10/100/1000 ethernet


I'd say that's a bit of an upgrade

 

Dell must be scared of knowledgeable people. Way to go.

 

Yeah after 2 motherboard replacements, as well as heatsink replacements, RAM replacements, and a CPU swap, I was given the choice of a Studio 17. All I had to say to the guy was "I paid for the Studio XPS line of laptop, and got the size and style I did for a reason. The SXPS 1645 would be an equal replacement in my opinion." Two minutes later, I had an order placed for a brand new SXPS 1645, and I was informed today of the specs of it and it's already on its way via FedEx. As I confirmed, they even maxed out all the specs on it. You just have to be firm, to the point, and let them know that you paid your hard earned money for something that is not performing as advertised, and that has a known, well documented set of issues. Also, it doesn't help to be well informed about the topic before you call in.

That being said, if anyone wants my customer number to refer to when attempting to get a replacement, or more info about the direct numbers and people I called, PM me with your system info and what problems it is having, and I will gladly provide these to you. I'm not just handing out my CN to anyone who wants a replacement, but if you legitimately need it, I have no problem helping.

 

Now be honest for an upgrade like that you kidnapped the child of dell's CEO right .

edit: Oh I have another one. Where can I learn to be a Jedi?

Seriously though that sounds like its probably worth twice as much as the original. I almost wish I had done more shouting an gotten a 1645 but I honestly prefer a 1749. I would have gotten one when I first bought this computer a year ago but they really sucked back then.