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    1640 Throttling - post here

    Discussion in 'Dell XPS and Studio XPS' started by tenknics, Feb 10, 2010.

  1. unclewebb

    unclewebb ThrottleStop Author

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    At full load when running Prime95, the reduced core voltage results in a power consumption reduction of approximately 10 watts DC. That's significant and is enough to eliminate any throttling.

    The VID voltage is the amount of voltage that each CPU needs to run reliably and is set by Intel at the factory. They tend to over estimate the amount of voltage needed to guarantee stability for the full life of the CPU. All of the Core 2 CPUs that I have tested can run reliably with less voltage.

    Intel setting the core voltage too high results in increased power consumption and your laptop producing more heat and running hotter. That's why it's a good idea to do your own testing and find out how much voltage your CPU really needs. On the assembly line, Intel doesn't have the time to spend hours with each CPU they manufacture to make sure it is Prime stable with the minimum possible amount of voltage. That's your job.

    Users that have the time can use RMClock to reduce their voltage and will benefit greatly, especially if they are close to the power consumption throttling point that many Dell laptops have.

    A 130 watt adapter is very useful but with the most recent bios, you still need to use RMClock or ThrottleStop to take advantage of the extra power that is available. Hopefully Dell will release a new bios for the XPS 1640 so it can take advantage of a 130 watt adapter like they did for the XPS 1645.
     
  2. tenknics

    tenknics Notebook Evangelist

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    That makes sense. Thanks for that. What you said explains even further into why a 90w adapter isn't enough. Its not the heat per say, but the 10 watts DC.

    Before I knew I had throttling, I did extensive testing as you've suggested and got my voltage down to 1.025 stable on full load. I tried to go one lower step lower (1.0125), but it would only hold the full load for 5 minutes and blue screen. Im sure the 1.025 is the best I can get, down from 1.163.

    Anyway, my adapter makes buzzing and sparking sounds. I'd really like a replacement. I'm in the middle of a move. I guess the first thing Im going to do when I get settled is finally try to get this thing fixed or replaced. Ive been avoiding it thinking I could by and ignore the problems, but there is too many issues I have for a $1800 laptop.

    Thanks again for your help unclewebb.
     
  3. paskowitz

    paskowitz Notebook Consultant

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    So the new charger will not fix the problem... ok... so what programs do I have to run in order to get it to work?
     
  4. unclewebb

    unclewebb ThrottleStop Author

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    It depends on how severe your throttling is. If you are only seeing multiplier throttling then you can use RMClock to handle that. The XPS 1640 can also use chipset clock modulation and the only automatic solution for that is ThrottleStop.

    TS is like a one speed transmission as one user called it. Set it for maximum performance when you are gaming and turn it off when you don't need it. It's also fairly simple to use. Post a ThrottleStop log file so I can see how bad throttling is on your laptop.

    As tenknics and others have done, you might be able to reduce core voltage a little to reduce power consumption and get around the throttling issue that way. There are lots of options available so one way or another you should be able to get around the throttling issue. On the other hand, waiting for Dell to do something for a laptop that was released over a year ago isn't much of an option.
     
  5. MrSpock2002

    MrSpock2002 Notebook Evangelist

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    Yeah and what is stupid is the fact they still sell the XPS1640 on their site. Not to mention I've had mine less than 5 months.
     
  6. quietCat

    quietCat Notebook Consultant

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    Is it a coincidence that all the computers that throttle are also Energy Star 5.0 compliant? :D

    A throttling computer uses less energy and energy efficiency is what Energy Star is all about.

    http://www.eu-energystar.org/en/database.htm
     
  7. TheSean299

    TheSean299 Notebook Enthusiast

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    I talked to Dell on the phone today and we narrowed the problem down to a software issue.

    So it's either 1640 users need a new video driver, or it's a compatibility problem with Windows 7.

    I still blame Dell.
     
  8. tatarus

    tatarus Notebook Guru

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    I installed the newest ATI video driver 10.3 Beta and I can still reproduce throttling. I don't think that the 1640 is incompatible with Windows 7. The 1645 wasn't incompatible either.

    If I was Dell I would also narrow the problem down to a software issue. It's the cheapest way to not having to solve the problem....
     
  9. mafyoo

    mafyoo Newbie

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    I doubt it is software issue, i believe the dell person you were speaking may just be saying that.

    I have been emailing dell support team, it is up to the point where they are offering me a xps 1645 as a free upgrade, however i am pushing for a refund.
     
  10. unclewebb

    unclewebb ThrottleStop Author

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    That is their typical response. The sales team is good at reading from scripts and talking around issues.

    Go buy a Kill-a-Watt meter or similar and do some benchmark testing. It will be very easy to see the direct relationship between power consumption and throttling.

    It doesn't matter what driver software you run. The drivers don't know that your power adapter is being choked a long time before its 90 watt rating. You'll have a tough time getting 90 watts AC from the wall let alone getting 90 watts DC out of one with the present bios.

    After doing a lot of research, quietCat made an excellent post today about the reasoning and logic behind throttling. You'll learn a lot more about the issues reading this than any Dell sales rep is ever going to tell you.

    http://forum.notebookreview.com/showpost.php?p=5960845&postcount=3650
     
  11. TheSean299

    TheSean299 Notebook Enthusiast

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    Very interesting information.

    I wouldn't be surprised if they lied. I suppose from Dell's reputation of crappy service that I shouldn't have bought from them in the first place. Upon hearing that they made good machines, a current sale that was going on made me consider; I figured I'd give them a try.

    When I called yesterday he said they'd replace the motherboard and video card. I asked why they'd have to do that, and apparently they thought that was the problem but, later we did agree that if there were defects then I would have noticed it way sooner.

    Nearing the end of our conversation he ended up giving me the number to contact Dell's software team so that I could follow up with them and try to resolve my problem.

    At this point I don't even know what needs to be done anymore. But if they don't fix this I'll never buy from them again. Never.

    It surely would be nice if all businesses really cared about the satisfaction of their customers and not the money in their pockets, but this is the world we live in.
     
  12. tenknics

    tenknics Notebook Evangelist

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    TheSean299, unclewebb has repeatedly stated what needs to be done, a new bios revision and 130w adapter similar to the fix for the 1645/47. I don't know why you continue to ignore it? All the information as to what is happening, why its happening and whats causing it to happen is all out there in front of you.



    Hey mafyoo, would you mind keeping us updated on your situation and what happens? How did you get to point of them offereing an upgrade to 1645? Did you have to go through replacements parts or entire replacements of the laptop (1640) itself? I'm trying to avoid wasting more time with redundant replacements of parts or another 1640 and go for a refund or a replacement myself. Who did you email and what did you say to get it to this point? Any information would be greatly appreciated. :eek:
     
  13. TheSean299

    TheSean299 Notebook Enthusiast

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    I understand that. You all do surely have good information to back up your claims.

    I suppose what I really meant is that I'm wondering how Dell themselves is going to choose to resolve this. If they keep releasing machines that come with these problems they are going to lose a lot of customers, me being definitely one of them.

    If a new bios revision and 130w adapter is the true fix for the 1640, then they better hurry. This has been the most ridiculous computer problem I've had in my whole life. Geez.
     
  14. tenknics

    tenknics Notebook Evangelist

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    Dell has been aware of the problem for awhile now. I don't think they suspected users would be smart enough to take it this far. Which is why we finally got a solution for the 1645 a few weeks ago. I don't think there is any hurry for the 1640. According to Bill its only been mentioned to the engineers and they're still "assessing" this thread to determine if it's a large enough problem to handle.
     
  15. unclewebb

    unclewebb ThrottleStop Author

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    They sure have. It's been 18 months since the throttling Latitude E6x00 series was released so it's impossible for Dell not to be well aware of the issues. These laptops were all designed to throttle based on power consumption and they do that very well. The only surprising part is that this situation has been able to go on for so long. The news media is negligent these days when it comes to properly investigating a story. Copy and pasting news releases from Dell is a sorry excuse for journalism and proper testing.

    What's more important? Lose one customer that is smart enough to find out that their laptop throttles or lose a dozen corporate customers because you can't meet EnergyStar compliance.
     
  16. TheSean299

    TheSean299 Notebook Enthusiast

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    The fact this didn't occur for me on Vista leads me to believe it really may be a software problem.

    Dell doesn't have many new drivers available for the 1640 as of now, so it's possible that we're just experiencing lower stability.

    As evidenced here, they didn't test the 1640 for Windows 7 Functionality. That is quite the failure on their part.

    http://support.dell.com/support/topics/global.aspx/support/dsn/en/document?journalid=80615E46952CBB43E040AC0A66E92483&docid=364752

    It would appear that they assumed the OS would work without doing any real test.

    If this was really a power supply problem, why didn't it happen on Vista? I don't want to rule anything out just yet, but think about that.

    Logically speaking it would seem they put more focus on their later models, and it's possible that only the 1645 needed more power considering it does have newer hardware.
     
  17. error-id10t

    error-id10t Notebook Consultant

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    I don't understand (except specific Dell software) what else doesn't have Win7 drivers. You've got chipset from Intel, ATI GPU and of course BIOS.

    1640 was meant to get a fix also, just like 1645 and then 1647. It's the same exact fix which you just haven't received yet.
     
  18. TheSean299

    TheSean299 Notebook Enthusiast

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    Since Vista has been out so long, Dell has more up to date drivers for that specific OS.

    Even if the exact same fix is required, can you explain to me why the throttling didn't happen on Windows Vista? Windows 7 itself was supposedly designed to use even less power than Vista. So if that's just a lie, then I don't see how Windows 7 was much of an improvement.

    Do you see what I mean?

    Like I said, I'm not ruling anything out, but I'm looking at this from a logical point of view.
     
  19. error-id10t

    error-id10t Notebook Consultant

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    No.. I can't, I haven't seen testing on 1645/1647 using Vista or even XP.

    Don't get me wrong, maybe you're right. But don't hold off updating drivers just because Dell doesn't update them in the 1640 tab. Besides what I already listed, you can get Intel Wireless drivers, IDT drivers for sound which are newer than what you'll find in 1640 offering.

    Of course don't update just anything... make sure it matches what you have and look at other threads to see if someone with 1640 updated it ok.

    Worst-case .. make sure system restore is on and revert back if you make a mistake.
     
  20. unclewebb

    unclewebb ThrottleStop Author

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    Did throttling not occur when using Vista or was there no software available back then that could accurately monitor for throttling? The most used program for processor monitoring is CPU-Z but with Core 2 Duo CPUs, it gives users no warning when clock modulation or chipset clock modulation is being used. These are two common methods of throttling that Dell is using on a wide variety of laptops.

    If anyone has access to Vista, run ThrottleStop for monitoring and run Prime95 + Furmark and I believe you will see extreme throttling. You can also use XP. It doesn't matter. A 90 watt adapter that is being restricted to approximately 75 watts DC is not sufficient to run that load at full speed on an XPS 1640 or on an XPS 1645 or on a Latitude E6500 or on a Studio 1747, etc., etc.
     
  21. tenknics

    tenknics Notebook Evangelist

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    Like error just said, just because you don't see them updated frequently on the dell site doesn't mean drivers for the devices and hardware in your specific 1640 doesn't exist. Dell doesn't make the drivers, they just post them and package them into an easy exe install for the general masses. I've updated my video drivers more than half a dozen times between "dell's update' with official WHQL drivers. Same goes for my synaptic touch pad, intel chipset, hdd, etc etc

    You just have to look outside of dell's box. Dell doesn't make anything, they just assemble it. Check the respective manufacturer websites for more frequent updates, specifically for Win7, they are all there. IE ati for your graphics cards, synaptics for your touch, intel for you cpu and chipset, Everything you can get a good driver for on Vista for your 1640 you can get also in Win7. Or you can sit back and wait for Dell to spoon feed the masses with late updates and drivers.

    As far as the throttling not occuring in Vista, I have no idea. I used Vista on my laptop for a few months while I was in Guam but I did not play any games. The only taxing thing I did was 1080/24p renders in Premiere Pro CS4. It would definatly put the CPU on full load, but back then I didn't know what throttling was or how to monitor or test it. There was some slow down at time within Premiere Pro but I just chucked that up to rendering to much and my my Core2 Duo wasn't powerful enough to make it go any faster. I wonder if this had anything to do with throttling...Will never know
     
  22. mafyoo

    mafyoo Newbie

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    Yeah mate leave it with me for now, i have yet to get a final response from Dell.
     
  23. TheSean299

    TheSean299 Notebook Enthusiast

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    I have considered downgrading to Vista if I have to for now, but I really shouldn't have to. There is no excuse for their poor service. This is Dell's failures that have been making us all suffer.

    It really all needs to end. It's just ridiculous man. I know that no company is perfect but, you don't see this happening on other brands. The only problem my friend's Mac had was caused by lack of drivers for Windows, which is understandable to some extent since Apple maintains their own OS and Windows is just a bonus really.

    Even if I did somehow slightly throttle on Vista without being aware of it, my question still remains. Why didn't Vista throttle like Windows 7 has? I was able to run all games at perfect performance on Vista.
    So between Windows 7 and Vista, what is the reason this throttling is happening? What is the cause exactly? No one knows yet.

    I don't really understand how it can be related to a power issue if Vista didn't have the same behavior. If Windows 7 uses more energy, then Microsoft has surely conned us all into buying their products with lies and all kinds of false statements. Just like Dell apparently?

    I really believe something about this is quite fishy, and it may be jumping to conclusions to think the answer has been found already. If we say Dell blah blah, it might come back to us later and we'll look like idiots. But I definitely still blame them.

    It's not that I'm ignoring what you all say. I just don't think we can be sure there is any definitive proof to your words yet. If you want to completely solve a problem, you have to look at it from all angles, all options. There is no reason to limit yourself in your observations until you're completely certain you know what the true solution is. I'm trying to look at it from many different perspectives so I can take the information I've learned and compare it all, and then make my final judgment when I'm positive I've discovered what I needed to.

    To me this type of reasoning only makes sense. But maybe you all think I'm a fool, and that's fine by me. I'm not posting on an internet forum to have a flame war or anything, I'm here because I have the same problem you do.
     
  24. unclewebb

    unclewebb ThrottleStop Author

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    TheSean299: It's very wise to consider all angles and all possibilities. Some of us have probably been looking into this longer than you have and have come to our own conclusions based on that.

    What first got me into learning more was reading Randall Cotton's (aka. Tinkerdude's) 59 page pdf that he created with test results from his Latitude E6500. His document was so clear and so indisputable about what was going on that I couldn't even read the whole thing before I started thinking about ways to reverse these horrible throttling schemes that Dell is using. That same day, the first version of ThrottleStop was released. I've always been a Dell laptop fan but his 59 page pdf changed my opinion of Dell. The way they originally handled XPS 1645 buyers didn't do anything to change that opinion for the better.

    http://www.sendspace.com/file/qnswoe

    With these throttling schemes, sometimes a very slight difference in power consumption can put you over the edge. Your computer can be throttling and slowing down internally but that doesn't necessarily mean that your game will be unplayable. Throttling can be subtle at first. If you're not monitoring for it then it can be very difficult to know if it is happening or not. It's easy to get used to and accept a stutter here or there.

    Instead of seeing this as proof that Windows 7 must be less efficient, maybe it's really a sign that it is more efficient. Windows 7 is much more multi-core aware so it might be better capable of using your CPU's resources. Normally this would be a good thing on most computers but on these laptops it might be just enough to push you over the edge into throttling.

    The original throttling schemes that Dell used not only slowed down a computer when it decided there was a problem, it could continue to run a computer at a reduced performance level for 15 minutes after you had returned back to idle. That's just insane and shows an extremely poor level of design.

    Go buy a cheap used hard drive and install whatever operating system you like and then do some accurate testing and logging of your computer's performance. I don't believe you will find a huge difference in performance from one OS to the next but I've been wrong before. Instead of just saying it "seems" to throttle or it never used to throttle; show us some data while testing your theories out.
     
  25. TheSean299

    TheSean299 Notebook Enthusiast

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    By the way, has anyone been in contact with Dell Bill lately? I wonder if he's been looking through this thread or not.
     
  26. mjbrilla

    mjbrilla Notebook Enthusiast

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    Unclewebb,
    I'm using Vista64. Per your request, I ran a test tonight with ThrottleStop, Prime95, and FurMark.

    The following are my settings:
    ThrottleStop 1.94 - ThrottleStop disabled, with only the "Log File" checkbox checked.
    Prime95 64bit Version 25.8 - In-place large FFTs - 2 threads running
    FurMark Build 1.7.0 - Run mode= "Stability Test" - Custom window size of 1366x768 - No MSAA

    I ran the test for the following times:
    20:52 - 20:54 (2 mins.) only ThrottleStop running (for a baseline).
    20:54 - 21:04 (10 mins.) ThrottleStop and Prime95 running
    21:04 - 21:14 (10 mins.) ThrottleStop, Prime95, and FurMark running
    21:14 - 21:16 (2 mins.) only ThrottleStop running

    Here are my results:
    Code:
      DATE     TIME    MULTI   C0%   CKMOD  CHIPM  DTS
    03/03/10 20:52:03   8.60   36.8  100.0  100.0   54   20:52 - 20:54 only ThrottleStop running
    03/03/10 20:52:04   8.01   24.2  100.0  100.0   55
    03/03/10 20:52:05   6.82   23.0  100.0  100.0   55
    03/03/10 20:52:06   7.88   23.4  100.0  100.0   55
    03/03/10 20:52:07   7.06   22.6  100.0  100.0   55
    03/03/10 20:52:08   7.94   16.2  100.0  100.0   55
    03/03/10 20:52:09   7.76   20.0  100.0  100.0   55
    03/03/10 20:52:10   8.03   23.3  100.0  100.0   55
    03/03/10 20:52:11   6.89   19.6  100.0  100.0   55
    03/03/10 20:52:12   7.97   18.8  100.0  100.0   55
    03/03/10 20:52:13   7.19   17.2  100.0  100.0   55
    03/03/10 20:52:14   7.90   22.1  100.0  100.0   55
    03/03/10 20:52:15   7.90   23.7  100.0  100.0   55
    03/03/10 20:52:16   7.91   23.6  100.0  100.0   55
    03/03/10 20:52:17   7.91   23.2  100.0  100.0   55
    03/03/10 20:52:18   6.82   20.3  100.0  100.0   55
    03/03/10 20:52:19   8.00   20.8  100.0  100.0   54
    03/03/10 20:52:20   7.92   22.7  100.0  100.0   55
    03/03/10 20:52:21   6.84   22.9  100.0  100.0   55
    03/03/10 20:52:22   7.86   18.2  100.0  100.0   55
    03/03/10 20:52:24   7.37   29.9  100.0  100.0   55
    03/03/10 20:52:25   7.21   26.4  100.0  100.0   54
    03/03/10 20:52:26   6.92   20.2  100.0  100.0   54
    03/03/10 20:52:27   7.87   24.3  100.0  100.0   54
    03/03/10 20:52:28   7.20   23.6  100.0  100.0   54
    03/03/10 20:52:29   7.02   18.6  100.0  100.0   55
    03/03/10 20:52:30   7.92   18.6  100.0  100.0   55
    03/03/10 20:52:31   6.74   20.0  100.0  100.0   55
    03/03/10 20:52:32   7.92   23.5  100.0  100.0   55
    03/03/10 20:52:33   8.20   25.7  100.0  100.0   54
    03/03/10 20:52:34   7.94   24.2  100.0  100.0   54
    03/03/10 20:52:35   6.91   23.6  100.0  100.0   54
    03/03/10 20:52:36   6.94   21.6  100.0  100.0   54
    03/03/10 20:52:37   7.99   21.2  100.0  100.0   54
    03/03/10 20:52:38   8.03   25.4  100.0  100.0   54
    03/03/10 20:52:39   8.00   24.0  100.0  100.0   54
    03/03/10 20:52:40   7.87   23.2  100.0  100.0   54
    03/03/10 20:52:41   7.89   24.0  100.0  100.0   54
    03/03/10 20:52:42   7.93   23.9  100.0  100.0   54
    03/03/10 20:52:43   7.98   19.7  100.0  100.0   54
    03/03/10 20:52:44   7.15   22.4  100.0  100.0   54
    03/03/10 20:52:45   7.92   24.1  100.0  100.0   54
    03/03/10 20:52:46   7.94   18.8  100.0  100.0   54
    03/03/10 20:52:47   7.05   19.6  100.0  100.0   54
    03/03/10 20:52:48   7.87   20.8  100.0  100.0   54
    03/03/10 20:52:50   7.98   23.7  100.0  100.0   54
    03/03/10 20:52:51   8.11   24.8  100.0  100.0   54
    03/03/10 20:52:52   7.97   18.5  100.0  100.0   54
    03/03/10 20:52:53   6.98   25.7  100.0  100.0   54
    03/03/10 20:52:54   7.84   22.9  100.0  100.0   54
    03/03/10 20:52:55   6.74   21.2  100.0  100.0   54
    03/03/10 20:52:56   7.91   23.6  100.0  100.0   54
    03/03/10 20:52:57   7.98   22.8  100.0  100.0   54
    03/03/10 20:52:58   7.14   24.4  100.0  100.0   54
    03/03/10 20:52:59   6.89   23.0  100.0  100.0   54
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    03/03/10 21:15:39   6.87   20.0  100.0  100.0   41
    03/03/10 21:15:40   7.13   22.6  100.0  100.0   41
    03/03/10 21:15:41   6.87   22.3  100.0  100.0   42
    03/03/10 21:15:42   6.99   22.6  100.0  100.0   42
    03/03/10 21:15:43   7.85   23.9  100.0  100.0   42
    03/03/10 21:15:44   6.96   23.5  100.0  100.0   42
    03/03/10 21:15:45   7.89   21.4  100.0  100.0   41
    03/03/10 21:15:46   7.83   19.3  100.0  100.0   41
    03/03/10 21:15:47   7.83   22.5  100.0  100.0   41
    03/03/10 21:15:48   7.84   20.9  100.0  100.0   42
    03/03/10 21:15:49   8.05   19.5  100.0  100.0   42
    03/03/10 21:15:50   7.20   19.3  100.0  100.0   41
    03/03/10 21:15:51   7.08   17.3  100.0  100.0   42
    03/03/10 21:15:52   7.34   25.4  100.0  100.0   42
    03/03/10 21:15:53   7.22   25.4  100.0  100.0   42
    03/03/10 21:15:54   7.23   23.8  100.0  100.0   42
    03/03/10 21:15:56   7.04   22.9  100.0  100.0   42
    03/03/10 21:15:57   6.94   18.4  100.0  100.0   42
    03/03/10 21:15:58   6.97   22.2  100.0  100.0   42
    03/03/10 21:15:59   7.05   26.4  100.0  100.0   42
    03/03/10 21:16:00   7.37   28.6  100.0  100.0   42
    
    Overall, I'd say that I've seen more extreme throttling during gameplay (Crysis and Call of Duty:Modern Warfare), but throttling was apparent during this test.

    For those interested, my laptop specs are listed in my sig.
     
  27. unclewebb

    unclewebb ThrottleStop Author

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    mjbrilla: Thanks for taking the time to test this and prove that Vista x64 throttles too.

    Within 6 seconds, between 21:08:22 and 21:08:28, your laptop loses 67% of its rated performance when the multiplier drops from 9.0 to 3.0. If that happens while gaming, you're definitely going to notice some stuttering. At least it doesn't start to use clock modulation. I think some of the faster T series mobile CPUs with 6MB of on chip cache instead of 3MB will start using clock modulation next if a 3.0 multiplier isn't enough to accomplish Dell's goal.

    The DTS column shows that when this throttling first starts to happen, the core temperature is well within the Intel specification so it's not Intel that has decided to slow things down. The throttling is controlled by Dell's bios. :(

    A 130 watt adapter and an updated bios could fix this problem but at the moment, I wouldn't bet on that happening. When running this same load on the XPS 1645, even with the updated A07 bios and a 130 watt adapter, Dell is still using some throttling which prevents the adapter from delivering its full 130 watts DC that it is rated at. Result: the XPS 1645 Core i7-720 can't run this load at full speed.

    The HP Envy with the same Core i7-720 Quad has no problem running Prime95 + Furmark at full speed with zero throttling but Dell has decided to set their performance bar a little lower than that.

    TheSean299: The last I saw Bill he was over on the XPS 1645/1647 thread putting out a few fires over there. Next up will likely be the Studio 1747. The Alienware M15x throttling issues are presently being ignored in the NBR forums. I think you should be able to play a game on a gaming laptop at full speed so maybe Bill and Todd will revisit that one.
     
  28. EGM92

    EGM92 Notebook Evangelist

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    I'm hoping one of you can help me. I just tested again with my T9600 it's idling at 58C when I run Furmark 1.8 and prime95 the temps jump to 80-87C before dropping to high 70's and then back to 80's the cycle keeps repeating while the test is running.

    Specs:
    T9600 2.8ghz MAX multiplier is 10.5x
    4670 1gb
    1080p WLED @ 100% Brightness
    Windows 7 ultimate 64bit

    Ran Furmark/prime95 from the beginning of the log, at 2:12:33 I disabled both. Then started them up again at 02:13:08 until the very end of the log. For some reason I'm thinking my log looks really messy. Is there something I should do? Am I doing it wrong?

    Here's the log file I captured:

    Code:
      DATE     TIME    MULTI   C0%   CKMOD  CHIPM  DTS
    03/04/10 02:09:07   3.37   56.4  100.0  100.0   38
    03/04/10 02:09:08   3.06   57.6  100.0  100.0   38
    03/04/10 02:09:09   3.76   42.6  100.0  100.0   38
    03/04/10 02:09:10   3.24   60.8  100.0  100.0   38
    03/04/10 02:09:11   3.77   65.0  100.0  100.0   38
    03/04/10 02:09:12   3.00   60.4  100.0  100.0   38
    03/04/10 02:09:14   3.09   42.0  100.0  100.0   39
    03/04/10 02:09:15   3.00   62.2  100.0  100.0   39
    03/04/10 02:09:16   4.16   58.2  100.0  100.0   39
    03/04/10 02:09:17   3.82   55.1  100.0  100.0   39
    03/04/10 02:09:18   3.02   60.9  100.0  100.0   39
    03/04/10 02:09:19   4.56   41.5  100.0  100.0   38
    03/04/10 02:09:20   3.13   58.8  100.0  100.0   39
    03/04/10 02:09:21   3.00   51.6  100.0  100.0   39
    03/04/10 02:09:22   3.54   64.8  100.0  100.0   39
    03/04/10 02:09:23   3.05   61.9  100.0  100.0   39
    03/04/10 02:09:24   3.00   46.2  100.0  100.0   40
    03/04/10 02:09:25   7.64   62.1  100.0  100.0   35
    03/04/10 02:09:26  10.50   57.7  100.0  100.0   34
    03/04/10 02:09:27  10.05   52.4  100.0  100.0   34
    03/04/10 02:09:28   9.59   50.2  100.0  100.0   34
    03/04/10 02:09:29   9.68   50.8  100.0  100.0   34
    03/04/10 02:09:30   9.70   51.7  100.0  100.0   34
    03/04/10 02:09:31   9.79   49.4  100.0  100.0   33
    03/04/10 02:09:32   9.52   50.9  100.0  100.0   34
    03/04/10 02:09:33   9.53   49.9  100.0  100.0   34
    03/04/10 02:09:34   9.74   44.9  100.0  100.0   33
    03/04/10 02:09:35   9.75   48.7  100.0  100.0   32
    03/04/10 02:09:36   9.77   46.5  100.0  100.0   33
    03/04/10 02:09:37   9.72   47.7  100.0  100.0   33
    03/04/10 02:09:38   9.87   48.9  100.0  100.0   33
    03/04/10 02:09:40   9.77   51.7  100.0  100.0   33
    03/04/10 02:09:41   9.81   49.0  100.0  100.0   34
    03/04/10 02:09:42   9.99   48.2  100.0  100.0   34
    03/04/10 02:09:43   9.88   51.0  100.0  100.0   33
    03/04/10 02:09:44   9.85   47.3  100.0  100.0   33
    03/04/10 02:09:45   9.75   49.2  100.0  100.0   33
    03/04/10 02:09:46   9.93   52.2  100.0  100.0   31
    03/04/10 02:09:47   9.98   47.4  100.0  100.0   33
    03/04/10 02:09:48   9.74   50.1  100.0  100.0   33
    03/04/10 02:09:49   9.60   49.7  100.0  100.0   34
    03/04/10 02:09:50   9.66   52.2  100.0  100.0   33
    03/04/10 02:09:51   9.75   51.3  100.0  100.0   33
    03/04/10 02:09:52   9.96   50.2  100.0  100.0   33
    03/04/10 02:09:53   9.86   50.8  100.0  100.0   33
    03/04/10 02:09:54   9.60   51.1  100.0  100.0   33
    03/04/10 02:09:55   9.81   53.3  100.0  100.0   32
    03/04/10 02:09:56  10.02   59.1  100.0  100.0   28
    03/04/10 02:09:57  10.50   56.3  100.0  100.0   28
    03/04/10 02:09:58  10.50   66.4  100.0  100.0   28
    03/04/10 02:09:59  10.50   59.9  100.0  100.0   28
    03/04/10 02:10:00  10.50   68.6  100.0  100.0   27
    03/04/10 02:10:01  10.50   68.1  100.0  100.0   27
    03/04/10 02:10:02  10.50   66.1  100.0  100.0   26
    03/04/10 02:10:03  10.50   55.8  100.0  100.0   28
    03/04/10 02:10:05  10.50   60.3  100.0  100.0   24
    03/04/10 02:10:06  10.50  100.0  100.0  100.0   18
    03/04/10 02:10:07  10.50  100.0  100.0  100.0   17
    03/04/10 02:10:08  10.50  100.0  100.0  100.0   16
    03/04/10 02:10:09  10.50  100.0  100.0  100.0   14
    03/04/10 02:10:10   9.91  100.0  100.0  100.0   17
    03/04/10 02:10:11   8.00  100.0  100.0  100.0   19
    03/04/10 02:10:12   7.20  100.0  100.0  100.0   23
    03/04/10 02:10:13   6.00  100.0  100.0  100.0   24
    03/04/10 02:10:14   6.00  100.0  100.0  100.0   24
    03/04/10 02:10:15   6.93  100.0  100.0  100.0   20
    03/04/10 02:10:16   8.00  100.0  100.0  100.0   20
    03/04/10 02:10:17   8.00  100.0  100.0  100.0   19
    03/04/10 02:10:18   6.93  100.0  100.0  100.0   24
    03/04/10 02:10:19   6.00  100.0  100.0  100.0   25
    03/04/10 02:10:20   6.00  100.0  100.0  100.0   26
    03/04/10 02:10:21   7.19  100.0  100.0  100.0   21
    03/04/10 02:10:22   8.00  100.0  100.0  100.0   20
    03/04/10 02:10:23   8.00  100.0  100.0  100.0   20
    03/04/10 02:10:24   8.00  100.0  100.0  100.0   19
    03/04/10 02:10:25   6.85  100.0  100.0  100.0   23
    03/04/10 02:10:26   6.00  100.0  100.0  100.0   24
    03/04/10 02:10:27   6.00  100.0  100.0  100.0   24
    03/04/10 02:10:28   7.29  100.0  100.0  100.0   19
    03/04/10 02:10:29   8.00  100.0  100.0  100.0   19
    03/04/10 02:10:31   8.00  100.0  100.0  100.0   18
    03/04/10 02:10:32   8.00  100.0  100.0  100.0   19
    03/04/10 02:10:33   7.53  100.0  100.0  100.0   21
    03/04/10 02:10:34   6.00  100.0  100.0  100.0   22
    03/04/10 02:10:35   6.00  100.0  100.0  100.0   22
    03/04/10 02:10:36   6.62  100.0  100.0  100.0   19
    03/04/10 02:10:37   8.00  100.0  100.0  100.0   18
    03/04/10 02:10:38   8.00  100.0  100.0  100.0   17
    03/04/10 02:10:39   8.00  100.0  100.0  100.0   17
    03/04/10 02:10:40   8.00  100.0  100.0  100.0   18
    03/04/10 02:10:41   8.00  100.0  100.0  100.0   17
    03/04/10 02:10:42   8.00  100.0  100.0  100.0   16
    03/04/10 02:10:43   7.07  100.0  100.0  100.0   21
    03/04/10 02:10:44   6.00  100.0  100.0  100.0   23
    03/04/10 02:10:45   6.00  100.0  100.0  100.0   21
    03/04/10 02:10:46   6.95  100.0  100.0  100.0   20
    03/04/10 02:10:47   4.28  100.0  100.0  100.0   26
    03/04/10 02:10:48   3.00  100.0  100.0  100.0   27
    03/04/10 02:10:49   3.35  100.0  100.0  100.0   24
    03/04/10 02:10:50   6.00  100.0  100.0  100.0   23
    03/04/10 02:10:51   6.00  100.0  100.0  100.0   22
    03/04/10 02:10:52   6.36  100.0  100.0  100.0   20
    03/04/10 02:10:53   6.62  100.0  100.0  100.0   23
    03/04/10 02:10:54   6.00  100.0  100.0  100.0   21
    03/04/10 02:10:55   6.00  100.0  100.0  100.0   22
    03/04/10 02:10:56   6.97  100.0  100.0  100.0   21
    03/04/10 02:10:58   6.00  100.0  100.0  100.0   21
    03/04/10 02:10:59   6.00  100.0  100.0  100.0   21
    03/04/10 02:11:00   7.18  100.0  100.0  100.0   19
    03/04/10 02:11:01   7.03  100.0  100.0  100.0   21
    03/04/10 02:11:02   6.00  100.0  100.0  100.0   21
    03/04/10 02:11:03   6.00  100.0  100.0  100.0   22
    03/04/10 02:11:04   7.09  100.0  100.0  100.0   18
    03/04/10 02:11:05   8.00  100.0  100.0  100.0   17
    03/04/10 02:11:06   8.00  100.0  100.0  100.0   17
    03/04/10 02:11:07   6.27  100.0  100.0  100.0   21
    03/04/10 02:11:08   6.00  100.0  100.0  100.0   21
    03/04/10 02:11:09   6.00  100.0  100.0  100.0   21
    03/04/10 02:11:10   7.87  100.0  100.0  100.0   16
    03/04/10 02:11:11   7.30  100.0  100.0  100.0   19
    03/04/10 02:11:12   6.00  100.0  100.0  100.0   21
    03/04/10 02:11:13   6.00  100.0  100.0  100.0   22
    03/04/10 02:11:14   6.78  100.0  100.0  100.0   16
    03/04/10 02:11:15   6.18  100.0  100.0  100.0   21
    03/04/10 02:11:16   6.00  100.0  100.0  100.0   21
    03/04/10 02:11:17   6.48  100.0  100.0  100.0   16
    03/04/10 02:11:18   6.48  100.0  100.0  100.0   21
    03/04/10 02:11:19   6.00  100.0  100.0  100.0   21
    03/04/10 02:11:20   6.00  100.0  100.0  100.0   20
    03/04/10 02:11:21   7.89  100.0  100.0  100.0   15
    03/04/10 02:11:23   6.31  100.0  100.0  100.0   20
    03/04/10 02:11:24   6.00  100.0  100.0  100.0   21
    03/04/10 02:11:25   6.00  100.0  100.0  100.0   21
    03/04/10 02:11:26   7.81  100.0  100.0  100.0   16
    03/04/10 02:11:27   6.62  100.0  100.0  100.0   20
    03/04/10 02:11:28   6.00  100.0  100.0  100.0   21
    03/04/10 02:11:29   6.00  100.0  100.0  100.0   21
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    03/04/10 02:11:31   6.00  100.0  100.0  100.0   21
    03/04/10 02:11:32   6.00  100.0  100.0  100.0   21
    03/04/10 02:11:33   7.16  100.0  100.0  100.0   16
    03/04/10 02:11:34   8.00  100.0  100.0  100.0   15
    03/04/10 02:11:35   6.51  100.0  100.0  100.0   20
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    03/04/10 02:11:37   6.00  100.0  100.0  100.0   20
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    03/04/10 02:11:40   3.00  100.0  100.0  100.0   24
    03/04/10 02:11:41   4.23  100.0  100.0  100.0   21
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    03/04/10 02:11:43   6.00  100.0  100.0  100.0   21
    03/04/10 02:11:44   6.95  100.0  100.0  100.0   17
    03/04/10 02:11:45   6.00  100.0  100.0  100.0   20
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    03/04/10 02:11:48   6.91  100.0  100.0  100.0   15
    03/04/10 02:11:49   6.03   50.0  100.0  100.0   20
    03/04/10 02:11:50   6.00  100.0  100.0  100.0   20
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    03/04/10 02:11:53   7.35  100.0  100.0  100.0   18
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    03/04/10 02:12:00   8.00  100.0  100.0  100.0   14
    03/04/10 02:12:01   8.00  100.0  100.0  100.0   14
    03/04/10 02:12:02   7.42  100.0  100.0  100.0   18
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    03/04/10 02:12:05   6.70  100.0  100.0  100.0   14
    03/04/10 02:12:06   6.27  100.0  100.0  100.0   19
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    03/04/10 02:12:09   7.36  100.0  100.0  100.0   17
    03/04/10 02:12:10   6.00  100.0  100.0  100.0   18
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    03/04/10 02:12:18   6.00  100.0  100.0  100.0   18
    03/04/10 02:12:19   6.00  100.0  100.0  100.0   18
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    03/04/10 02:12:21   3.00  100.0  100.0  100.0   22
    03/04/10 02:12:22   3.00  100.0  100.0  100.0   23
    03/04/10 02:12:23   3.35  100.0  100.0  100.0   20
    03/04/10 02:12:24   6.00  100.0  100.0  100.0   19
    03/04/10 02:12:25   6.00  100.0  100.0  100.0   19
    03/04/10 02:12:26   6.38  100.0  100.0  100.0   15
    03/04/10 02:12:27   8.00  100.0  100.0  100.0   13
    03/04/10 02:12:28   8.00  100.0  100.0  100.0   13
    03/04/10 02:12:29   8.19   88.8  100.0  100.0   21
    03/04/10 02:12:30   3.00   60.9  100.0  100.0   26
    03/04/10 02:12:31   4.15   52.4  100.0  100.0   27
    03/04/10 02:12:32   3.34   58.4  100.0  100.0   28
    03/04/10 02:12:33   3.00   53.3  100.0  100.0   28
    03/04/10 02:12:34   3.15   64.3  100.0  100.0   28
    03/04/10 02:12:35   3.08   65.9  100.0  100.0   28
    03/04/10 02:12:36   3.02   62.1  100.0  100.0   28
    03/04/10 02:12:37   3.26   59.8  100.0  100.0   29
    03/04/10 02:12:38   3.27   59.4  100.0  100.0   29
    03/04/10 02:12:39   3.94   44.9  100.0  100.0   29
    03/04/10 02:12:41   3.02   47.5  100.0  100.0   29
    03/04/10 02:12:42   3.02   62.4  100.0  100.0   30
    03/04/10 02:12:43   3.00   58.2  100.0  100.0   30
    03/04/10 02:12:44   3.44   57.3  100.0  100.0   30
    03/04/10 02:12:45   3.00   54.7  100.0  100.0   30
    03/04/10 02:12:46   4.13   60.5  100.0  100.0   30
    03/04/10 02:12:47   5.37   52.6  100.0  100.0   30
    03/04/10 02:12:48   3.08   64.2  100.0  100.0   30
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    03/04/10 02:15:08   4.56   62.8  100.0  100.0   25
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    03/04/10 02:15:14   3.22   63.7  100.0  100.0   29
     
  29. error-id10t

    error-id10t Notebook Consultant

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    The throttling is CPU temp related and though Dell set this, it isn't the 'standard' throttling that we see elsewhere. If the CPU temps are 90s I'd be looking at a downvolt/cooler.

    There's another guy with the same CPU posting here who has 4670 and RGB and on their log you see 'standard' modulation/throttling (using Win7).
     
  30. sheikhstone

    sheikhstone Notebook Geek

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    yoo guys, i found a definte solution to the throttling issue with the p8600, 4670 and a rgb led!!!
    i have successfully undervolted the processor as follows:

    SuperFLM 6x - 0.875V
    6x - 0.875V
    7x - 0.950V
    8x - 0.950V
    9x - 0.950V

    my p8600 operates totally stable under these voltages and thus draws far less power than before. as u know: watt = volt * ampere ;D
    this so called undervolting doesnt even take one iota of the processors performance and it keeps it much cooler.
    i think under full load it is now 60C celsius instead of 70!!!!
    and i never changed the thermal paste!!

    oh and u need rmclock to undervolt the processor. the undervolting however is only active as long as the rm clock is running in the background, but it doesnt actually use any ressources...
     
  31. unclewebb

    unclewebb ThrottleStop Author

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    sheikhstone: Under volting is a great solution if your CPU is capable of that and most of them are. When playing around on a T7200, under volting resulted in a peak temperature drop of 20C. You might save 10 watts DC or even slightly more depending on how successful you are which can make a huge difference between throttling like crazy and no throttling at all.

    EGM92: Your results show lots of throttling and at 2:14:23, things get so severe that it starts to show chipset clock modulation which can really slow down your CPU internally. When this starts to happen the Task Manager load meter will still report 100% load but a load meter based on C0% will show that internally your CPU is not at 100% load. That's why those numbers suddenly drop just after chipset clock modulation is detected.

    You better talk to sheikhstone about under volting. That should make your laptop more usable with less throttling. If the throttling scheme on this laptop is due to temperature then lowering voltage will result in a cooler CPU and less chance of throttling.
     
  32. Zexel787

    Zexel787 Newbie

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    I have:
    Dell Studio XPS 1645
    Intel i7-720QM
    4GB DDR3@1333Mhz
    ATI 4670 1GB
    HD+ Widescreen 15.6 inch WLED LCD (1600x900) W/2.0 MP ( I know I should've got 1080p for $75 more, but I was already breaking bank)
    320GB 7200RPM SATA

    I only did the 3dmark06 benchmark and my results were something like:
    1st run ~ 4500 with A06 BIOS and 90Watt Charger
    2nd run ~ 6200 with A07 BIOS and 130Watt Charger
    3rd run ~ 8300 with A07,130w,Throttlestop running

    I'd like to know if you think unplugging the power cord while running ThrottleStop and a CPU/GPU intensive program will harm the 9cell battery?

    Does anyone else have a similar configuration with better benchmark results? If so what tweaks have you made? Or does anyone have suggestion on further tweaks? Other than the ones here.

    This was the Cheapest Dell XPS with i7 and 4670 I found. I think dell made a mistake. This should be the price for the Dual Core. Cheap Dell XPS 16
     
  33. EGM92

    EGM92 Notebook Evangelist

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    Thanks for letting me know. During the test I actually had the CPU mhz drop below 580mhz and the system started to stutter badly.

    I just spent about 50min on the phone with Dell XPS Canada. they were dumbfounded. I showed them the throttling while that remote access program was running and he definitely noticed a problem and had to call his superior. He said what they can do is give me a 130w adapter, and update my bios. I told them that the adapter won't do much as it'll need to have a bios update to accompany the PSU, A12 did not have a fix for this problem. The tech confirmed that I would require a different bios update but there was none available for the 1640 and that I could actually try doing a 1645/47 bios as they "within the same family". I don't know if that's true or not but I advised against it as this is my main working machine, and I can't have downtime. He gave me the option of getting the motherboard replaced but that wouldn't really fix anything.

    I was told that after I get the PSU that a tech would call me back to see how the problem is doing. Hopefully if that PSU doesn't do anything they'll replace my system with something that is functioning somewhat properly like a 1645.
     
  34. peppe1

    peppe1 Notebook Evangelist

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    If you can get that in writing you can probably get yourself a new laptop. A bios written for an entirely different CPU (C2D vs I5/i7) and motherboard (PM45 vs PM55) isn't likely to just drop right in because some arbitrary product name is similar :p
     
  35. EGM92

    EGM92 Notebook Evangelist

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    I figured as much but again didn't want to risk it, if they would have broken my system would they upgrade it? or replace just the mobo? that's the problem, don't want to go through all that trouble, waste my time just to be back with the initial problem.
     
  36. Zexel787

    Zexel787 Newbie

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    In my experience if you flash the wrong BIOS to your mobo then it can be fixed by sending in the flash chip on the mobo to the manufacturer to reflash. However, since that was a custom made computer I didn't have tech support. They may just replace the mobo. Definitely don't flash with the wrong BIOS if you don't want to go with the hassle. Of course even if you tried I assume the software running the BIOS update would recognize the difference and error out, but I still wouldn't try it. When I flashed my BIOS with the wrong one way back when I believe I had to reboot and F2 to goto the old BIOS to do it ... not in windows.
     
  37. RootPhisher

    RootPhisher Notebook Consultant

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    I have experienced some issues today where I am running quite a few apps, couple of VM's and the PC slows down to a crawl, but I have CPU-Z running and it states the processor is running at the correct speed and the multiplier stays at 9... Aggravating performance.
     
  38. unclewebb

    unclewebb ThrottleStop Author

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    Those are very interesting results because Dell has been telling everyone that BIOS A07 + 130 watt adapter meant no more throttling. If that was actually true then ThrottleStop running or not would make no difference.

    Be careful what software you use to monitor with. CPU-Z and many other programs get a little confused when clock modulation is being used and can start reporting multipliers way lower than the actual multiplier.

    [​IMG]

    A 6.0 multiplier combined with Super Low Frequency Mode (SLFM) results in the equivalent of a 3.0 multiplier. There is no such thing as a 0.5 multiplier on the T7300 or on any Intel CPU for that matter.

    On the new Core i CPUs when clock modulation is being used, the load on the CPU will decrease which will allow the CPU to use more turbo boost. The increase in the multiplier can give you a false sense that everything is OK even though internally, because of clock modulation, the CPU is running at a fraction of its rated speed.

    It could. During normal use, probably not but stress testing with Prime95 + Furmark puts a huge load on your laptop so I would definitely avoid unplugging it when running that test.

    This is why I added the Auto Turn Off feature to ThrottleStop. When switching from AC to battery power, it is designed to immediately disable ThrottleStop. When this happens, it will still take some time for your bios to regain control over the multiplier so it might not protect your laptop when running fully maxed out with P95 + Furmark. For normal use, this feature should help avoid damage to your battery.
     
  39. RootPhisher

    RootPhisher Notebook Consultant

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    Dell told me today that the 130watt adapter will permanently damage my 1640 if I used it and the throttling issue is only with the 1645 / 1647.

    Day by day I lose respect for Dell techs, the inconsistency in what they relay to their customers is ridiculous.
     
  40. EGM92

    EGM92 Notebook Evangelist

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    I was using HWINFO32 to get the readings, the multiplier never dropped to something like 0.5, it was always at least a whole number. The funny thing is the tech put me on hold for a good 10minutes, coming back every 5 to tell me to keep holding that they were looking into it. When he finally came back he told me that I'd have to run system @ High performance power profile, which I did. Then I ran the prime95+furmark just to shut him up and again dumbfounded as I completely shot down their little solution. I actually have a log from the small test in High performance. I have a tech coming over tomorrow to replace my LCD cover (logo peeled off), speakers (as they're crackling) and give me a 130w PSU, I'll test it out ASAP and get you guys a log.

    Code:
      DATE     TIME    MULTI   C0%   CKMOD  CHIPM  DTS
    03/04/10 12:56:55   9.98   40.3  100.0  100.0   38
    03/04/10 12:56:56   8.95   44.2  100.0  100.0   39
    03/04/10 12:56:57   9.25   51.2  100.0  100.0   37
    03/04/10 12:56:58   9.11   45.8  100.0  100.0   39
    03/04/10 12:56:59   9.63   47.5  100.0  100.0   38
    03/04/10 12:57:00   9.21   37.5  100.0  100.0   39
    03/04/10 12:57:02   9.46   44.8  100.0  100.0   38
    03/04/10 12:57:03  10.00   61.6  100.0  100.0   35
    03/04/10 12:57:04   9.13   44.7  100.0  100.0   39
    03/04/10 12:57:05   9.14   47.7  100.0  100.0   40
    03/04/10 12:57:06   9.41   47.3  100.0  100.0   38
    03/04/10 12:57:07   9.38   50.0  100.0  100.0   38
    03/04/10 12:57:08   9.29   51.0  100.0  100.0   38
    03/04/10 12:57:09   9.74   52.2  100.0  100.0   37
    03/04/10 12:57:10   9.25   51.8  100.0  100.0   39
    03/04/10 12:57:11   9.02   33.8  100.0  100.0   39
    03/04/10 12:57:12   9.29   50.7  100.0  100.0   38
    03/04/10 12:57:13   9.49   47.3  100.0  100.0   39
    03/04/10 12:57:14   8.79   37.6  100.0  100.0   40
    03/04/10 12:57:15   9.76   48.0  100.0  100.0   37
    03/04/10 12:57:16   9.86   50.5  100.0  100.0   36
    03/04/10 12:57:17  10.43   51.8  100.0  100.0   32
    03/04/10 12:57:18  10.28   50.5  100.0  100.0   36
    03/04/10 12:57:19  10.14   58.7  100.0  100.0   37
    03/04/10 12:57:20   9.44   51.0  100.0  100.0   38
    03/04/10 12:57:21   9.47   47.5  100.0  100.0   37
    03/04/10 12:57:22   9.48   44.1  100.0  100.0   38
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    03/04/10 13:14:05   8.02   36.3  100.0  100.0   37
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  41. TheSean299

    TheSean299 Notebook Enthusiast

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    Maybe the 1640 really doesn't need a 130w adapter. It's possible a new bios update would suffice.

    I know that from the data that was posted that it's claimed Vista throttles. Which may be true, but if you want to take my word for it, my games ran perfect on Vista so I would assume that my 90w was suitable for peak performance. Otherwise why would they sell such hardware?

    (Before I go any further, I'm sure you're all aware of what I'm about to say. It's common sense. I may as well just include it anyway.)

    The only logical reason for them to set it up to throttle that I can think of would be to make sure the laptop itself wouldn't become too hot. If someone were to get burned then they'd have massive lawsuits on their hands; not to mention the total recalling of all those models. So it doesn't matter how much heat the CPU can take before it's safety feature shuts it down, it's just the fact that these are laptops, not desktops, and our body parts will be in those danger zones. We are not yet in a world where gaming laptops are designed perfect.

    I don't know if I'm angry enough to say all their experts are huge idiots, because they're obviously paid professionals and must know their stuff quite well.

    Dell is a huge company and they have a whole team of technicians which consist of people from all over the world. If there is indeed a problem then they're aware of it. There is no reason they wouldn't have the resources to conduct the same type of tests you have all been doing. So in truth, I don't know how much we're really contributing to fix this problem. If nothing more, our complaints and displays of evidence are just desperate attempts to try and motivate them to solve it. I don't believe at this point that we're telling them much more than they don't already know themselves.

    We're just customers seeking the truth. We want a solution. And when a company doesn't provide it we seek else where.

    The wait is still on.
     
  42. bipul_fx

    bipul_fx Notebook Evangelist

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    I have the same specs you have.
    I did the test too today. How did you get those results.
    1st run ~ 6900 without TS
    2nd run ~ 6200 with TS

    BTW My GPU temp never went above 75C and TS log was always above 15 in both logging and on mode.
     
  43. unclewebb

    unclewebb ThrottleStop Author

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    It's not a claim that Vista throttles. mjbrilla clearly proved on page 13 that his XPS 1640 when running Vista x64 does indeed throttle.

    Having games that ran perfect when using Vista is very subjective. You need to do some proper testing and logging of your results before jumping to any conclusions.

    Like all companies, Dell sells hardware to make money. There are a variety of reasons for throttling. Dell has a variety of models that they have sold for the last 18 months and continue to sell today with a variety of different throttling methods and reasons for the throttling.

    What do you suggest users do? Should they sit back and not say a word? Should they phone Dell tech support only to be lied to and misled? That isn't going to solve the problem.

    What worked for XPS 1645 owners was to first become educated about the problem. Next was testing and spreading the word and after that a large number of owners started complaining to Dell. They also started to ship their new laptops back to Dell and they told Dell that they could have them. Some users phoned the Better Business Bureau and lodged complaints against a company that was not being 100% honest or upfront about the level of performance their products could actually deliver when fully loaded. It took a huge amount of anger and negative feedback before Dell decided this was a serious issue which motivated Dell to start doing something about these problems.

    I like that program. Very thorough when you need to know it all. I tested the latest version last week and I found a few issues with what it reports when clock modulation is being used. The good news is that the green graph it shows at least responds to both types of modulation.

    Here are a couple of examples though that show that there are also times when it is clearly not right.

    [​IMG]

    In the first example, clock modulation confuses it and it ends up reporting the bus speed at 583.3 MHz instead of the correct 333.3 MHz.

    [​IMG]

    In the second example, clock modulation tricks it into displaying the bus speed as 49.1 MHz instead of 333.3 MHz which results in the total MHz also be wrong. At least in this example the little green bar clearly shows some sort of throttling going on while in the first example it completely misses it.

    This might be one reason why there are so many throttling issues. There are too many trusted programs that can't correctly monitor and report Intel's CPUs.
     
  44. Asherek

    Asherek Notebook Consultant

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    You would honestly be super surprised, believe me. It's not nearly as simple as you've portrayed it.

    It boils down to:

    1.) They were aware of the problems, but didn't want to do anything about it because they figured most people wouldn't be able to tell that there was a problem.

    or

    2.) They simply didn't run enough number of tests and were completely unaware of the problems caused by this; users like Unclewebb and other folks on this forum did a lot of tests and did most of the legwork for Dell (and should frankly be getting PAID by Dell for their work instead of their atrociously shoddy engineers).

    In either case, complaining/returning computers/reporting the issue to them IS what has gotten Dell to notice the issue and at least attempt to correct it.

    I've worked at enough number of large companies to let you know that you just simply cannot assume that the company will always do their groundwork.
     
  45. michaeljean

    michaeljean Notebook Consultant

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    can somebody tell me what apps to use to check I have a 1640 t9550 4670, I had a 3670 but dell just sent me a new motherboard. I doubt my xps throttles but I don't know if I can trust RMclock

    I game heavy on this machine and RMclock stays at a constant 10x and heat only goes up to 50 C. I have undervolted heavy and applied coolant. PC runs super cool I hope it doesnt' throttle. Also I care about power and don't want a 130 adapter.
     
  46. Sirhcz0r

    Sirhcz0r Notebook Deity

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    For one thing, Rmclock (for me in any case) has been reporting temps around 10 degrees Celsius lower than they are. It's way off. Hwmonitor gave accurate readings.

    I got my replacement 1640, and unvervolted. You would not believe this absolutely insane undervolt. I'm running fully stable at 2.2GHz, with the lowest voltage it can go down to (the same voltage as when it runs at 1.2GHz).

    I was just lowering the voltage over an over, waiting for the crash (for a rough idea of the T6600's stable voltage), but it never happened lol.

    I might be throttling a bit. I'll check it out right now.
     
  47. michaeljean

    michaeljean Notebook Consultant

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    I have been running prima and it only throttles when I have it on full brightness and on the battery. Is that normal. Been checking temps with HWmonitor, cpu-z, Rmclock
     
  48. arcticjoe

    arcticjoe Notebook Deity

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    Vista throttles, not as bad as 7, but it still does. So does XP. Throttling is clearly built into bios of the laptop, hence a choice of OS has little effect. Also again, it has nothing to do with heat as I've seen throttling at as low temps as 65c.
     
  49. Juiced

    Juiced Notebook Enthusiast

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    i dont get any throttling issues like you guys mention. i have a 1640 with p8700 and ati hd 3670. i'm using rmclock to lower voltages. my idle temp is 32C and max load temp is 55C.
     
  50. EdmundKemsley

    EdmundKemsley Newbie

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    UncleWebb, I downloaded the new version of Throttlestop because I had to but now it hangs my computer! The original worked fine and now I can't play games again. :(
    What should I do?
     
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