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    1640 Throttling - post here

    Discussion in 'Dell XPS and Studio XPS' started by tenknics, Feb 10, 2010.

  1. mjbrilla

    mjbrilla Notebook Enthusiast

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    Right, but I was wondering if anyone had done any testing to determine if a 130W power supply would be necessary for the 1640. Is it possible that just a bios update suffice?
     
  2. unclewebb

    unclewebb ThrottleStop Author

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    The 90 watt PA-3E adapter can get very hot and is being limited to less than its rated 90 watt DC output. If Dell updated the bios and allowed another 5 or 10 watts DC to be output from these adapters, they might have to start recalling some of them due to safety issues. That's why their hands are tied. To properly fix this problem requires an updated bios and a 130 watt adapter.
     
  3. tenknics

    tenknics Notebook Evangelist

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    Finally wrote up my letter to Mr. Dell. I hope he actually reads it, even though I doubt he will. I met him in 2006 and was lucky enough to discuss the future of gaming with him and a group of other gamers at an Intel/Dell sponsored tournament in Dallas. He probably doesn't remember me but I talked with him for a good 45 minutes..

    Hopefully my letter doesn't fall on deaf ears...
     
  4. mystycs

    mystycs Notebook Evangelist

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    I emailed him as well, got a response from indian tech support...
     
  5. tenknics

    tenknics Notebook Evangelist

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    mystcs whats the status of your situation? you getting a replacement or refund?
     
  6. mystycs

    mystycs Notebook Evangelist

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    The dell rep i was appointed is being a real hard , hes not letting me move anywhere, he said all he can do at the moment is just send an ac adapter, and from there i will have to wait for official fix. He is suppose to give me a call today. I will explain i don't want to wait, neither have the time, and if he doesn't help me, ill contact Michael dell again.
     
  7. Mechanized Menace

    Mechanized Menace Lost in the MYST

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    Why bother calling i always get the best results from chat and there is always proof of what the techs say
    Ill post my chat log on here so you can see how i handled it
     
  8. tenknics

    tenknics Notebook Evangelist

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    I got a call like you from an Indian man. He claimed he was the highest point of escalation. He said he was aware that I started the thread and know about all the problems and proceeded to offer me a 130w adapter and then went on to admit it wouldn't solve the problem. ?!? I then asked him why he was offering me something that wouldnt solve my problem, I didnt see the logic in that? He didnt have a good explanation, got flustered and said he would call me back tomorrow. Before he got to that point he said he would not give me a refund and he won't replace the laptop at this time. Then he went on to say that he would have to consider a replacement.

    By this conversation and yours I think what Dell is doing is first contacting the problem customers and offering a 130w adapter as bait to try and solve the problem. If they don't take that first offer, even though they know it won't fix anything, then they go to the next step...whatever that is?

    I asked him if he really read my thread and my long email then he would know that I am aware that 130w for the 1640 won't work and that it needed a bios update to go along with it. He admitted no bios update was in site or even being worked on. I got an extreme attitude and raised my voice because this is the kinda crap I wanted to avoid, redundant Q&A, especially when he already knew it woudn't work..

    Im so flustered. I was denied a refund and a replacement isn't an option "at this point"...


    Thanks a lot for nothing Dell... $2,000 investment out the window!
     
  9. mystycs

    mystycs Notebook Evangelist

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    Ouch thats awful, my technician promised to call me today, but nothing yet..
     
  10. tenknics

    tenknics Notebook Evangelist

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    He called me when I was out riding my bike at the beach and I asked him to call back later and he refused because he was too busy. Yet he's calling back again tomorrow...I think the first call is to assess how dumb the customer is to see if they can push the 130w adapter on them and then if that doesn't work they go back and determine what they can do next. He said he would call me back tomorrow at the same time..

    How did others get a replacement? I even said I was closing my Dell Preferred Account which has a $6,000 limit with only a few hundred dollars on the balance..He said he didn't care..

    I wonder if this is what Dell really wants its employees telling its customers, to close their accounts and take their business elsewhere..Thats what he basically did.
     
  11. mystycs

    mystycs Notebook Evangelist

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    Wow you have a horrible tech, Email michael dell again.
     
  12. joehempel

    joehempel Notebook Consultant

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    Yeah that sounds like an horrible experience. The first thing they offered my when I called was a system exchange, not even a 130W Power Supply came first.

    Sorry to hear about your experience.
     
  13. Gazzajagman

    Gazzajagman Notebook Guru

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    I have always been an HP laptop fan. A collegue suggested that I try a Dell "because they are WAY better"....lol. My Dell 1640 is my first and last Dell laptop. I'm really not impressed with it's heat issues, REB screen that won't profile, lack of keypad and utterly pants CPU throttling.
    I also don't see why a large 16" laptop doesn't have two HD bays. My old HP pavillion 17 does...and it has none of these issues.
     
  14. BatBoy

    BatBoy Notebook Nobel Laureate

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    Folks, a quick warning and reminder of the forum rules:

    OT posts are also not permitted. Simply posting with a 'Sorry for the OT' is not enough. If it is OT, do not post. If you have a question for another member which is OT, take it to PM.

    Any questions on the forum rules, send me a PM.

    Thanks.
     
  15. Ckhurana

    Ckhurana Notebook Consultant

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    Hi All,

    Attached is the Screenshot and the throttlestop log file. Please let me know what can be concluded from the numbers!

    Unclewebb/quietCat, do let me know your take on this if possible.

    My system specs are in the signature, I am using the standard 90 W PSU.

    Thanks,

    CK

    (P.S. I have taken a sshot of the temps from the GPUZ screen)
    http://img704.imageshack.us/img704/9459/throttlenew1.jpg

    Code:
      DATE     TIME    MULTI   C0%   CKMOD  CHIPM  DTS
    03/17/10 02:25:24   6.00   50.3  100.0  100.0   53
    03/17/10 02:25:25   6.00   53.2  100.0  100.0   53
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  16. quietCat

    quietCat Notebook Consultant

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  17. error-id10t

    error-id10t Notebook Consultant

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  18. tenknics

    tenknics Notebook Evangelist

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    I received no follow up call today as promised.

    Batboy is that in regards to me talking about my phone call to Dell?

    Sheez sorry, thought it was relevant.
     
  19. BatBoy

    BatBoy Notebook Nobel Laureate

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    No my post was not directed at you in regards to your phone call. If you read my post I mention a few reminders. Mainly, do not post chat or email transcripts. Its against the forum rules and it will not be tolerated.

    Next time you want to ask me a question re: a mod action, send a PM.

    Thanks.
     
  20. mystycs

    mystycs Notebook Evangelist

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    I got no call for 2 days that was promised, and all my calls where ignored by him as well.
     
  21. tenknics

    tenknics Notebook Evangelist

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    that makes me feel a little better knowing im not alone, hope that doesn't come off bad. hopefully the both of us will get a solution to our problems.
     
  22. BatBoy

    BatBoy Notebook Nobel Laureate

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    I posted this in another thread - in the event some of you are not receiving return calls from reps as promised, you also can escalate your case...

    Dell provides an option on their main site to assist in escalating a given issue which is not being resolved through normal tech support channels.

    Most of the Dell websites have a link at the bottom of the main page. For the US, UK and Malaysia sites, its listed as 'Unresolved Issues'. If you are in another region, check your Dell website for your specific country - some sites do not have this feature/link.

    When using these links, you will be greeted with two options:

    1. Customer Service (this is defined by Dell as 'Missing, damaged or incorrect orders, Lead time issues or Refund or exchange problems')

    2. Technical Support (this is defined by Dell as 'Products not functioning and Operating System problems')

    When filling out the related webform, be sure to provide your case#. Your case# is generated when you first contact Dell Technical Support for assistance. Recap the situation and be polite. Provide your contact info and request a follow up.

    NOTE: You need to contact Technical Support and work with the Tech Support Rep prior to using the Unresolved Issues link. Dell will not accept straight contact via this link without first reporting the issue to tech support and allowing them a chance to resolve it. Again, you must contact tech support first. Unresolved Issues should only be used if you are faced with a brick wall and are not receiving any response to your requests for assistance.
     
  23. EGM92

    EGM92 Notebook Evangelist

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    Throttling is getting very severe now. To the point that listening to music and having an HD (720P) video playing while muted causes the system to become choppy as hell. My girlfriends Lenovo S12 which is a freakin' netbook is actually running circles around this system right. Also mentioned that I had a problem with my keyboard with the capslock/tab keys, it's getting worse as well.

    Here's an MP3 I made of some music playing while the video is playing in the background.

    http://dl.dropbox.com/u/3226360/Audio C.mp3

    Only way to fix the audio is to restart the computer, and let it cool off for a while, mind you it's not actually hot idling at 46C on balanced mode with a T9600.
     
  24. error-id10t

    error-id10t Notebook Consultant

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    If that's what you hear, that's pretty bad. Run DPC Latency checker and see what it shows.
     
  25. EGM92

    EGM92 Notebook Evangelist

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    unfortunately I restarted before I read your post so I didn't get to test it properly. Once it does start happening again what do I have to look for when running that program?

    Also when gaming and the CPU starts throttling the same thing happens.
     
  26. unclewebb

    unclewebb ThrottleStop Author

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    Ckhurana: Your log file doesn't look quite right. Try rebooting, start up ThrottleStop with only the log file option selected. Try running just Prime95 and see if TS shows your multiplier going higher. If this is OK then stop P95 and switch to just Furmark. Your log file looks like your multi is stuck but there might be something else going on.
     
  27. Ckhurana

    Ckhurana Notebook Consultant

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    quietcat, I am running the Prime 95 (in Place FFTs) in the background (its just minimized)
     
  28. Ckhurana

    Ckhurana Notebook Consultant

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    I do have rivatuner installed, but i haven't enabled any settings.... No idea why the temperature crosses 85*C mark. Any tips?
     
  29. Ckhurana

    Ckhurana Notebook Consultant

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    Uncleweb, you said 'Try running just Prime95 and see if TS shows your multiplier going higher.'
    This would be a normal behavior when throttling? What exactly could be going on in here?

    Anyways, let me do what you suggest, and get back with the results.

    Thanks,

    C
     
  30. Ckhurana

    Ckhurana Notebook Consultant

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    Hi,

    Alright below is the TS log with -

    ThrottleStop running (with only the log file option selected) WITH Prime95 (64 Bit version/ Custom / Running FFTs in place);

    prime95 - started 13:54 - stopped 14:03

    I then Ran FurMark with the standard settings:

    FurMark - started 14:04 - stopped 14:13:03 (I let it run for another 2 mins)

    unclewebb, let me know your verdict please!

    Thanks,

    C
    Code:
    
      DATE     TIME    MULTI   C0%   CKMOD  CHIPM  DTS
    03/17/10 13:54:15   4.79   46.9  100.0  100.0   62
    03/17/10 13:54:16   3.33   56.5  100.0  100.0   63
    03/17/10 13:54:17   5.15   55.3  100.0  100.0   62
    03/17/10 13:54:18   4.03   58.3  100.0  100.0   60
    03/17/10 13:54:19   5.65   48.1  100.0  100.0   59
    03/17/10 13:54:20   3.46   43.2  100.0  100.0   62
    03/17/10 13:54:21   8.45   95.6  100.0  100.0   52
    03/17/10 13:54:22   9.00  100.0  100.0  100.0   46
    03/17/10 13:54:23   9.00  100.0  100.0  100.0   45
    03/17/10 13:54:24   9.00  100.0  100.0  100.0   44
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    03/17/10 14:15:47   3.10   47.7  100.0  100.0   60
    03/17/10 14:15:48   3.37   43.0  100.0  100.0   60
    03/17/10 14:15:49   3.26   43.6  100.0  100.0   60
    03/17/10 14:15:50   3.67   37.1  100.0  100.0   60
    03/17/10 14:15:51   3.53   44.1  100.0  100.0   60
    03/17/10 14:15:52   3.54   46.4  100.0  100.0   60
    03/17/10 14:15:54   3.58   55.3  100.0  100.0   60
    03/17/10 14:15:55   3.23   54.4  100.0  100.0   60
    03/17/10 14:15:56   3.51   51.9  100.0  100.0   59
    03/17/10 14:15:57   3.11   52.9  100.0  100.0   60
    
     
  31. sccone

    sccone Newbie

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    I definitely have throttling problem, I actually have that from the beginning of my usage of 1640. After a while of playing games, everything go extremely slow.

    P8700+4670 here
     
  32. unclewebb

    unclewebb ThrottleStop Author

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    Ckhurana: When you are running just Prime95 on both threads, you will see that the multiplier is locked on 9.00 which is exactly what you should see when both cores are in the active state. Your computer can run this load at full speed.

    When running just Furmark, there seems to be a very slight amount of throttling but nothing you would ever notice while using your computer. With this load, you are probably right on the edge of throttling.

    While Furmark is running you could try also running a single thread of Prime95 to simulate a demanding game. This might be enough load to send your laptop into severe throttling where your multiplier will drop significantly.

    You'll have to play a game or try some other real world test to see if throttling is an issue for you during normal use. A lot of users had no idea why some games would suddenly slow down but if you are running a log file, you can go back and compare the time of the slow down to what the multiplier was at in the log file during this slow down. Post another log file and I'll have a look.

    Your P8600 supports Intel Dynamic Acceleration (IDA) which means it can use a multiplier of 9.5 for brief bursts when a single core is in the active state and the other core is in the C3/C6 sleep state. That's what is going on when you see an average multiplier in the 9.0 to 9.5 range. If you run a single threaded benchmark like SuperPI mod this should be easy to see in ThrottleStop where the sleeping core will be stuck at 9.0 and the active core doing the work will be averaging between 9.0 and 9.5 as it rapidly cycles back and forth between these two values.
     
  33. tenknics

    tenknics Notebook Evangelist

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    I get a call a day later than I was told. I answer and he goes right into his schpeel about why he couldnt call yesterday...Guilty conscience much? I didn't even ask and he was already so defensive..These guys call at the worst times...I was on my way out the door and he tried to keep talking..I said please call back and if you give me a time to please honor it. I cleared out my schedule to sit around the house and wait for a phone call that never came.

    Its gorgeous right now in San Diego..Im not missing another beautiful day working at the beach waiting around for Dell to get its act together.
     
  34. mystycs

    mystycs Notebook Evangelist

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    Im not getting any real solution either, he wants me to try the adapter, thinking i will see a fix from it stating other users have themselves, but we all know there is no fix from it, due to the bios limiting it. I should get a call tomorrow.
     
  35. mjbrilla

    mjbrilla Notebook Enthusiast

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    Yep, my laptop behaves similarly when gaming. I can play Crysis or COD4:MW smoothly at about 25-30fps for about a half an hour, after that my framerate drops to 2-3fps.

    If you're interested, you can read about my experiences in the following post: http://forum.notebookreview.com/showthread.php?p=5867272&posted=1#post5867272 I'd be interested to know if your symptoms are similar.
     
  36. TheSean299

    TheSean299 Notebook Enthusiast

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    Well I have some good news finally. Dell is sending me a replacement. The guy said he's not sure yet what my specs will be, and doesn't want to promise anything. I'm hoping I get something a least a bit better in return for all the hassle this has caused me.

    It will be here soon, hopefully the throttling doesn't happen on the new one.
     
  37. TheMystro

    TheMystro Notebook Enthusiast

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    I am curious why do you think it wont happen with your replacement??

     
  38. Mechanized Menace

    Mechanized Menace Lost in the MYST

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    Cuz there is a chance where he may get a 1645/47 or even an alienware but thats not so likely as the other two, cuz the 1645/47 have been "fixed" where as the 1640 is prolly gonna be EOL soon cuz of i3,i5,i7 so C2D is on the way out



    Congrats btw Sean
     
  39. TheSean299

    TheSean299 Notebook Enthusiast

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    Thank you.

    To answer TheMystro's question, he said he would contact me to check if the replacement throttles. If it does then I'll have to send it back and they will give me another replacement apparently. So either way I can't really lose.

    I have a question though. I was wondering what you guys think of refurbished computers, I think that's what my replacement will be, whatever it is, and I wanted to know if you think refurbished laptops are good quality machines. I suppose I shouldn't have expected a brand new system, but I paid a lot of money for this laptop and it hasn't ever performed how it should have, so where is the justification? Either way I can't really complain in the end, life isn't always so promising.
     
  40. Mechanized Menace

    Mechanized Menace Lost in the MYST

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    Refurbs aren't generally bad
    I do have a refurb horror story it was a replacement for my first SXPS 1640 with the 3670 which i returned they sent me one with a broken ac adapter a broken keyboard and it throttled outta control and heated up like a volcano called back and raised a huge fit and they sent me a new one this one actually that im typing on sigs in spec
     
  41. TheSean299

    TheSean299 Notebook Enthusiast

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    Geez. That is ridiculous man. Do they not do any type of testing at all on these machines before they send them out? It really makes no sense. If they took the time to do some decent testing then they would save themselves and their customers the hassle of going through these things. I honestly don't get it, I fail to see the logic. Is it just me then? I thought wasting less time was a good thing for everybody. lol


    Anyhow, I'm going to be preparing for a new laptop so I have to get busy soon backing up important files and what not.

    Thanks for the responses. I wish luck to everyone else trying to obtain a replacement. Keep bugging them and you'll get it. I chose to get a lot rougher with them than most people even though i understand they have to follow their procedure. But if you don't let them know you're really serious and extremely disappointed than you may get taken advantage of. I'm not a highly paranoid person, but I do know that some companies out there will treat their customers unfairly and treat them like a fool. You just have to step your game up and let them know you mean business.

    I would hope more people are encouraged to get what they paid for now. It seems at least Dell is making an effort to resolve this.
     
  42. Mechanized Menace

    Mechanized Menace Lost in the MYST

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    I couldn't have said it better + that 4year complete care warranty has paid for itself over and over whenever someone says they are getting a Dell I tell them that warranty is a mandatory item
     
  43. peppe1

    peppe1 Notebook Evangelist

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    Angling for a replacement as well. Just got the 130w adapter. Ran the tests and it still had throttling. Emailed my tech back. I probably should call to force the issue, but tired of talking to them.
     
  44. Mechanized Menace

    Mechanized Menace Lost in the MYST

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    I hate calling i'd rather chat
     
  45. tenknics

    tenknics Notebook Evangelist

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    Mid conversation with the rep and he's a complete jerk. He said he'd called after 2pm he called at 11am. He offered me a 1645 or 1647 then began to configure the cheapest 1645 possible...He said he will get me a 1645 with a t9900. Had to inform him that build doesn't exist..He doesn't understand his own product.. He's interrupting me, arguing with me about what I paid for, what I can and cant have and is constantly talking down to me. What I cant get over is the fact that everytime I open my mouth to talk, for instance I told them I would not accept anything less than a 16" RGBLED, (cause thats what I paid for) he interrupted me and told me it wasn't available in the configuration he was building.

    Ive asked to speak to someone else several times. Its gotten to the point where we are both yelling at each other, I told him is this how Dell treats its customers? He put me on hold...

    I am furious right now..

    He's trying to tell me I'm being upgraded by going from Blu-Ray 16" RGBLED to a DVDRW with 15.6 WLED...Only becase it had an i7...This guy is trying to pull one over on me...Just because I'm going from a Dual to a Quad doesn't mean its an upgrade..Doesn't work that way..


    Update: He told me to build something on the Dell site and send it to him and see if it will match price wise...Fingers crossed...


    TheSean99: what are you getting in place of your 1640? And I am with you. I've gotten extremly loud and fresh with Dell (the guy on the phone). Not to toot my own horn but I know the technology, the parts and hardware like the back of my hand. I spit knowledge at this guy and he didn't know what to do. We spent 10 minutes arguing that the i7-620 was a dual and not a quad..I told him to stop talking for 2 secs and let me speak. Knowledge was dropped..You'd think Dell would use people that know about the products they were selling.

    On the issue of Blu-Ray, in which I paid extra, I asked what would I get for compensation since it is not offered. He told me I can't just get whatever I want. I told him to wake up and stop being so pissy. Thats not what I was trying to do. I said I paid for a Blu-Ray and I should get something of equal value if the Blu-Ray was not an option. He shrugged...


    They say they will call back the next day so they can have time to review the case, but when they actually call you they have 0 relevant information about you or their own products. So what are they actually doing "over night" ? They obviously aren't reviewing the case until the actual phone call is made...Man I'm typing up a storm..Sorry Im just really frustrated and appalled at how I'm being treated. Ive asked for someone else to deal with this and have been denied...

    !?!!? OH MY GOD!!! Now he's arguing with me about what time it is where I live. I live in California, PACIFIC TIME. He's trying to explain to me how daylight savings just happened and I need to adjust my clocks. I told him all my clocks were adjusted, my computer and TV auto adjust. I adjusted my alarm clock manually and the oven clock. He's in central and trying to tell me what time it is here. I told him central has a 2 hour time difference with pacific, he agreed. He was telling me it was 11am here when it was 12. I asked him what time it was in Central, he said 2pm. I then asked him what is 2pm minus 2 hours? He said 12..Then I asked how it could be 11am..He shruggs....WHY ME!?

    Edit: For those who have 6gb memory config. Is it a 2gig+4gig stick? (pretty sure it is) and does it run in dual channel mode or single since the dimms are different sizes?
     
  46. BradatDell

    BradatDell Company Representative

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    Hey guys- just thought I would drop in with a quick update. Our team is working on a BIOS update that will address throttling on this system. This fix will also require the use of a 130 watt AC adapter which we will provide. I will update you as soon as I have more details on this process and have an appropriate time table.
     
  47. richmonkey36

    richmonkey36 Newbie

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    how long should this be?
     
  48. BradatDell

    BradatDell Company Representative

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    I don't have a time table yet, but as soon as I hear something I will update everyone here. I am thinking we should have an update on this very soon. I know this isn't the best news, but I thought I would at least let everyone know that we are aware of this issue.
     
  49. chewyeong90

    chewyeong90 Notebook Evangelist

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    Thank you for the tip off :)
     
  50. TheSean299

    TheSean299 Notebook Enthusiast

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    @tenknics - It sounds like your rep is either a complete idiot or he's always high on something. In either case he should get fired; apparantly computers aren't his thing, nor is customer service.
     
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