Any updates on the XPS 16 heating/ throttling issue?

i'm gonna buy an xps 16 this week (possibly tomorrow?) and was wondering if you guys could give me an update on the heat problem and the throttling issue. Has dell done anything to fix this yet?
from what i'm hearing they've addressed the heat problem by changing the gpu or something like that and that the throttling issues was fixed with the 130 w adapter. Is this true? and can you tell me your experience with any other issues you might of encountered? and yes i've seen the XPS 16 lounge detailing the problems

 

dell support on NBR secretly disappeared without a trace. the recent BIOS update (A09) did little help to improve the throttle issue. Dell did a small refresh on the 1645 by changing out the GPU to the ATI 5XXX series and now supplying 130W adapter to every order.

 

is the heat still an issue for you?

 

the heat isnt an issue while on light usage. Only when gaming, its a problem. The Fan kicks in High gear and everywhere from the keyboard gets warm including the palmrest. The bottom gets hot.

 

alright thank you

 

How warm does the 1645 get when under heavy gaming ( i.e. 4+ hours) ?

 

Well I just got my GPU up to 98F letting furmark and prime run for about a half hour.......

 

Would it be any better with the 5730? Also, would it be able to handle a 4+ hour gaming session?

 

Cannot give you an answer for either......... But I believe liquid..... something (sorry bro, forgot off the top of my head) posted a TS log and w/the 5730 the CPU did still throttle......

 

Interesting. I ordered it last weekend, but all this has me wondering if I made a mistake in doing so.

 

Give it a test drive and if its bad return it!

 

Yep. Thats exactly what I plan to do. If any throttling occurs, I will be returning it. I love the way it looks and everything, but if it can't handle the 4+ hour gaming sessions I do quite often, it's useless to me.

 

I game on mine all the time for longer then 4 hours, in fact I work on it all day then use it for personal tasks when I get home. Sure it gets a warm, its a thin laptop packing alot of power. People have to remember these things. With the slight mod I did the temps on the cpu and gpu never go above 70c unless Im doing a long term furmak + prime95 at the same time.

I think you and unclewebb got a little confused with my logs. The correct multiplier for a 720QM is 12 and not 13. Mine was in the 11-12 range. Sure it dipped below 12 by a minute amount but in the real world chips do that. There is always a small margin of error in chip production and this is why some chips OC well and others that are the exact same dont (as well as some run hotter then others). Also while doing these benchmarks there was ZERO flickering or stuttering in furmark. The ambient temps were also pretty close to 80f yet the rig only saw low 70s celsius (same basic temps my vostro sees when doing the same testing). All in all I think the 5XXX + WLED + 130w adapter + BIOS solved most of the problems. I think the most anyone ever saw with an RGBLED 4670 SXPS is 136Watts, and with the 5730 alone that problem is solved as it runs ~9watts lower. Add in the WLED and your well below the 130w limit.

Turst me you did not chose wrong. The only thing you will have to realize is that it is a very thin notebook packing alot of power, so it will get warm to the touch. But if yours is like mine the temps inside are well within spec, and no more throttling. I can game and multitask at the same time and no slow downs whatsoever.

 

I see. I'm well aware that it will get warm , I'm just more concerned about it throttling, but it appears as you said it is fixed overall with the 5730. I'm fine with it getting warm, because it will with the power that it has. It was moved up from the 28th to the 23rd for its delivery date, so I'll let you know how it is then. I plan on putting it to the test right away ^_^

 

i heard the battery life was pretty weak even with the 9 cell. is is true?

 

Battery life has been pretty good on both the 9 cell (& 6 cell) on my 1647. : ) Not sure if that helps or not.


Cin...

 

Yeah, even on web with low brightness and the nec. power settings for longer battery I have been able to get at least 2 hours.. maybe even closer to 3.

This is a rough est. but I will time it this weekend..... this was a 9 cell by the way.

 

My bad, Liquid you are right about the mult. being 12 and not the 13 we set it to in TS...

But still, even having it drop immediately shows throttling... which it has no reason to be doing!!!

 

I will do a thorough time on my 9C and, on my 6C, also. Let's see what we both come up with? : )


Cin...

 

I was surfing on the ride to the beach while powering an air card and at ~85% it showed just over 3 hours. Im sure with wifi or just the NIC Im sure I could get more, but still for what it has I think 3+ is more then enough.

See the thing is the error of margin allows for values to be within certain ranges of the top value. Although the range was 11-12 it mainly stayed above 11.5 to 12. 11+, in my opinion, is not throttling. If it went well bellow 12 and stuttered I would admit it was throttling.

 

Well, everyone is entitled to their own opinion...

 

For a fully loaded Core i7-720QM, any time the reported multiplier shows a number less than the default 12.00 multiplier, the CPU is throttling. The high performance timers within the CPU run at billions of cycles per second when a CPU is loaded and the calculated multiplier displayed is usually rock steady to 3 decimal places or more.

I've seen log files from desktop CPUs go for 8+ hours where the reported multiplier doesn't vary once by 0.001. Mobile CPUs can do the same if they are not throttling.

Throttling may not be a problem at all for the applications that you run on your laptop. That's fine but you can't argue that your laptop is not throttling because it is.

When the average multiplier is bouncing back and forth between 11 and 12 during a 5 minute session at full load; that's throttling. If you tested for a longer period of time it might get worse but it certainly won't get any better.

 

I started timing my 9cell on batt' only at 12:00P today, ending and having to go back to charging at 2:50P. So, nearly 3 hours.

Am, about to test the 6cell..will report on that later!


Cin...

 

Meh.. things got better after the 130W adapter + new bios..also removing the 84c limit on the GPU.
However the laptop is still rather unusable in high-end tasks if you do not close the LCD, use an external screen and put the XPS on a platform so it can suck air from underneath the laptop.

I recently tried to watch a HD movie with the laptop on my bed and it almost exploded. CPU crawled to pentium 3 performance.

Pathetic

 

I have the thing on my lap now just browsing websites and watching some hd videos on gametrailers and it's pretty uncomfortable to have on my lap. The unit is still priced right though and beautiful so to me the pro's outweigh the cons. Great screen, love the backlit keyboard, when there isn't throttling going on the games run very well at high settings (720p), Bluetooth very handy too.

 

Its meant to be used on a desk and such. Its more of a notebook then a laptop.

 

Do you realize how retarded you just sounded? NO laptop should EVER be put on a soft surface like a bed! You have to use your brain and think why that is the case. There's a reason why there's "lap desks" and other solutions which allow you to safely use a laptop in bed.

 

Hey folks. New to these forums, but I've been following the various threads right up to my recent 1645 purchase, and figured I would weigh in on one of these threads.

I was playing Battlefield BC2 for 20 min in a room with no air conditioning and did notice some performance degredation, but didn't investigate the reason and didn't catch the FPS

Moved into a different room later and I was running Furmark and Prime for about 30 minutes and neither the GPU or cores ever hit 80. Played BF:BC 2 again for another 30 min and was averageing 40-55 FPS in this room.

CMod% was pinned at 100% for all the tests while I was in the air conditioned room. Never got a chance to see what it looked like in the room without A/C.

Now I'm not a particularly heavy gamer and I've never bothered with overclocking. Side question for those familiar with ThrottleStop... I'm assuming "FID" is the multiplier? Mine seems to be locked at 7.00 for some reason. At first I thought that was a sign of throttling, but it seems to be locked at 7.0 all the time no matter what. Anyone have any thoughts on that? I'm getting the same multiplier reading from CPU-Z.

 

When your CPU is loaded, if the multiplier is stuck at 7.0, that's a problem. Run a single thread of Super PI mod or Prime95 and see what ThrottleStop reports for your multiplier. At idle, 7.0 is fine but if the CPU is loaded it should be going a lot higher than that. Upload some screen shots to ImageShack® or similar and then post some links here.

If the multiplier is still locked at 7.0 when you are running one of these benchmarks then put a check mark in the Set Multiplier box of ThrottleStop and increase the multiplier adjuster to 13.0 and your real multiplier will not be stuck at 7.0 anymore.

 

I pegged it at 12 using throttlestop and it worked, but I found the root cause for this problem anyway...

Layer 8 issue (aka, my own idiocy). I didn't read ThrottleStop's instructions regarding my power profile and I just saw that it was at 5% for minimum processor state when plugged in. After I set that to 100% and disabled throttlestop, the multiplier was behaving as one would expect, jumping as high as 21 on some threads while running furmark.

As soon as I launched Prime the software reeled it in and pegged it at 12.0. Is it considered "throttling" if it locks it at the default of 12 under high stress, or is throttling only when it drops below that default value?

By the way, thanks for the fast response and thanks for putting together this ThrottleStop tool.

 

12 is what it should stay at under full load...

 

12 is indeed the right multiplier if Turbo Boost is off and you are running in "quad-core" mode. 12*133MHz = 1.6GHz, the speed of the i7 720QM.

Technically the laptop should be able to run at a multiplier of 13 when running those applications, but I'm not sure if ThrottleStop supports Turbo Boost. Either way, you will probably get better results with ThrottleStop than without.

 

Thanks for the info guys. Always good to learn something new.

Back to the topic, for those curious, I'm using the new SXPS1645 that has the updated GPU (5730). Idle temp I've seen drop sub 50C, but usually hover around 52. Light Load temps get up to 57. Running just Prime my CPU temps were around 72.

Once I throw i furmark on top of Prime, the temp gets up to 78 or 79C. I think the GPU was floating around 76C

I had the laptop sitting on the edge of a table (with the raised 9cell hanging off) just for a few minutes and the temp started to increase to 86C on some cores before I sat the laptop back at its normal position, so yes the 9 cell vs 6 cell battery can swing the temp at least 5C

Never saw throttling at 86 degrees, so everything seems to be inline with the current notes regarding A09 and the 130W adapter, which is that the BIOS is not throttling based on Power consumption or that 85C mark.

The laptop is even slightly warm at light load (58C CPU). I would say that with the CPU at 70C it feels like an above average temp for a laptop palmrest. Around 80C and its definately a distraction but its not burning your hand or anything (left palmrest is hotter). So if you're a gamer or playing a first person you'll probably get a bit distracted by the heat coming from your left hand over the W,A,S,D keys. These are all somewhat arbitrary descriptions of heat, because it all depends on what you're used to and perhaps the room's ambient temperature.

IMO, heat dissipation and the heat that is felt through the palm rest leaves a little to be desired as it is still a bit warm when I'm just browing a few web pages, but I'm quite happy with the purchase overall.

 

The default multiplier for a Core i7-720QM is 12.0. ThrottleStop definitely supports turbo boost. If it didn't you would never see a multiplier higher than 12. To tell the CPU to use as much turbo boost as possible you have to tell it to use the default multipler (12) + 1 so that means you need to set ThrottleStop to 13 and don't put a check mark in the Disable Turbo box or else you won't get any turbo boost, ever.

The amount of turbo boost you get is all up to the CPU. The less cores that are active like when running a single thread of Prime95 or Super PI will maximize the amount of turbo boost you get and the average multiplier will go up near the maximum of 21. There is always background activity going on which can wake up additional cores so it's impossible to average the full 21 multiplier for a one second sampling period.

The amount of turbo boost also depends on the power consumption of the CPU. When fully loaded with 8 threads of Prime95, you are over that limit so the CPU does not give you any turbo boost. The result is that you will be running at the default multiplier of 12.

Most desktop motherboards have a way to override this limitation so can deliver some turbo boost even when fully loaded but the mobile boards don't have this option.

 

I'll just weigh in now and say that I have yet to experience any throttling while gaming for HOURS (6+) without stop. I can force my laptop to throttle with prime95 and Furmark, but that doesn't bother me, because that's totally artificial. I do completely understand the frustration of people that are experiencing throttling while gaming, but I think for most (ie. out of all XPS16 users, not just those that report on this forum) people throttling will no longer be an issue.

The newer bios versions, the 130W power adapter, and the new video card (5730) all go a long way to solving the problem. My laptop has the 4760, and it doesn't cause me any problems. This laptop is the most powerful computer relative to contemporary computer that I've ever owned, and I couldn't be happier with it. It's not perfect, and there certainly are some really dumb design aspects, but it's an amazing piece of hardware considering the cost and the package that it is in.

 

Just played Crysis (on High) for a few hours while logging with ThrottleStop, and mine definitely throttles.

Not to the point where the game was unplayable, but more of an annoyance (where you would wonder if it was throttling). Now I just need to learn all the intricacies of ThrottleStop so I can use it effectively.

 

Honestly if games, work, or multitasking is not effected who cares? RacingGun said it perfectly, prime + fur is synthetic. Real world use will never ever be like that, and even at that maximum usage I (and others) dont see stuttering. If the multiplier is pegged at 12 or hovering around 11.5-12 or even lower what does it matter if youre not seeing stuttering? I want to test my rig once I can get a clean install and dont have so much going on (skype, pidgin, etc.).

 

I see serious frame rate drops when the multiplier gets pegged at 12. The throttling is bad enough that I can tell when throttling has begun without checking the multiplier or the game's current framerate.

Of course, I generated ThrottleStop logs for "proof" and closely monitored the frame rate a few times also so see exactly what was going on. One game I play normally runs at around 50fps, and when the laptop is throttling it runs around 26fps (unacceptable).

Even though the multiplier only drops by a third (~18 down to 12), the game's framerate drops by nearly half (50 down to 26)! This is real world usage. I don't care if 90% of users don't have throttling problems. I do.

 

Same here, disc should be here in a few days.


Also was hovering around 10 then dropped to 7 for a few minutes. Like others have said I can induce throttling when running both Fumark and Prime95, although this isn't necessarily surprising.

 

Im not trying to belittle anyone or their problems.

I went through the process again and hopefully they will get the point that I DO NOT want a factory restore, rather a clean install like all the other dell units I have purchased in the past came with.

 

Ooo they just sent you a Dell restore disc?

Just got an email, stating that my Windows 7 Home Premium disc was on its way, but I was pretty explicit that I was doing a clean install.

 

I think the take-home message for people that are considering buying an XPS laptop, is while some are still experiencing throttling, it is by no means a universal problem with all XPS laptops. Even if 50% of the people on this forum reported throttling while gaming (a gross exaggeration), that wouldn't translate to 50% of all XPS laptops throttling.

 

Well if it is the same type of disc that used to come with systems then its clean enough. The only item on the dell discs that isnt from MS was the OEM folder and that was basically to help along the install of windows. I was able to make a clean vista disc from my dell disc for an HP laptop I used to have. Worked well and made for a perfectly legitimate clean install on the HP.

I agree, and what I have been trying to get at since mine arrived.

 

Wow mine is throttling with TS enabled by lowering the clock modulation (even though I have TS controlling that), after about 30 min of playing Crysis (on a desk with the 9 cell).

Pretty disappointing to say the least, I don't think this is a temperature problem though as the CPU was at 75 degrees celcius.

Edit: Attached my TS log from when it was throttling, any help is appreciated.

 

Silverstreak98: You are one of the unlucky ones that has severe throttling issues during normal use. With the newer bios versions, Dell changed the throttling algorithm so it is more aggressive when it is using clock modulation throttling. Unfortunately, what the bios wants, takes precedence over what ThrottleStop wants so there is nothing I can do to improve this situation.

Some users have gone back to using older bios versions that used a less aggressive throttling scheme.

The C0% column shows that your CPU is only loaded between 25% to 30% most of the time which means it is fully loading one core but no where close to loading all 4. Your CPU and GPU temperatures are in the 70C to 75C range so once again that is no reason for throttling.

The throttling is due to a lack of available power. The bios pulls the plug and starts to throttle long before these laptops get anywhere near their rated 130 watt DC output or near the promised performance level that they are advertised to deliver.

To change the ThrottleStop DTS column to core temperature just add TJMax=100 to the ThrottleStop.ini configuration file.

 

@ Unclewebb: What I don't understand is why Dell doesn't deliver a high (even higher) capacity adapter? Like 150W or something. Shouldn't that solve all throttling issues? Since it's just a lack of power right..?

 

Here's my personal update on throttling. Today, for the first time, I experienced clock modulation combined with a 7x multiplier. Before today I never experienced clock modulation or a multiplier below ~12 while playing a game. All I was doing was playing Left 4 Dead 1 with a USB mouse plugged in. Framerate dropped below 15 and stayed there until I gave up.

 

So are your saying its possible D3ll will get their heads out of their @$$3$ sometime and release a BIOS that allows us to use the full power allotment of the 130w adapter? My main concern though is heat, when gaming the adapter (and laptop quite frankly) are too hot to touch for more than second, so if there actually was 130w being pulled I'm sure the damn thing would explode or burn down a house.

 

Last time I talked to Dell they basically said, that's it. The engineers know the XPS 1645 can throttle during some situations and some extra watts would reduce the amount of throttling but they are not willing to increase that limit.

There's a variety of possible reasons including excessive heat. You're not going to see this done right until they redesign the cooling solution they are using and provide adequate power so they don't have to use CPU throttling to limit power consumption.

gpig: That's a sad looking log file alright. As software, including games, learns how to better utilize the CPU and GPU, the throttling is only going to get worse. Most games today are only fully loading the equivalent of 1 of the 4 cores. That's what that C0% number represents in the log file.

You can try adding GPU=2 to the ThrottleStop.ini file if you want to monitor and log your ATI GPU temperatures as well. That might show you what's going on. You can also add TJMax=100 if you want to turn the DTS column into the core temperature.

 

Bull, all my previous laptops would do fine with a simple task as watching a movie.. It's because the LCD blocks the vent that it get's so bad it can't even play a movie