Any updates on the XPS 16 heating/ throttling issue?

I think the most wattage ever recorded on an XPS 16 is 136watts and that was with an RGBLED 4670 unit. That means with a WLED and 5730 that we are much farther away from the capacity of the AC adpater now. As some have said it is a BIOS issue and how much dell will loosen the leash on the system.

 

How do you figure much away? If the 130 watt adapter doesn't even put out a full 130watts... and the newer GPU only runs on like less than 10 watts than the last one... who's to say we still aren't getting enough power drawn??

 

Again the most I have seen recorded online with an RGBLED screen and 4670 XPS 16 is 136watts. With the new screen and GPU alone that is guaranteed to be reduced by noticeable amount (9watts for the GPU and I have read that RGBLED screens run at ~ 3 times the wattage of a standard LED screen). The GPU alone puts the useage to 125watts max and the screen would put us well below 120, so even if the ac adapter has a discrepancy between advertised power and actual it would have to be very significant (~15% or more) for the 130watt adapter to be an issue.

 

You know what the honest truth is though? YOU STILL HAVE THROTTLING, whether you'd like to admit it or not.

You may be satisfied with it, but many aren't and to say that enough power is given to the system without any proof, well baffles me.

 

I have the same unit as liquidxit2 and mine throttles in games after 10mins...I have tried many different titles (all demanding of course). I'm sure HL2 and StarCraft would play fine but I want a consistent experience. If Im using an external screen I can play for hours with no issues. That extra power not being used by the screen must be utilized by the cpu so the throttling is non-existant (or at least not noticeable now when gaming which is all I care about).

liquidxit2, have you played anything other than WoW? I'd like to see you try out Crysis or Bad Company 2 and see if yours throttles then.

Duran, I think it's been established temps are not the real issue here. Yes the unit gets hot but the temps are within acceptable levels and shouldn't be having an effect on performance.

 

If you only knew. Your number is getting closer to the truth but is still on the low side. That's all I'm allowed to say.

Once throttling is triggered, it does not immediately turn itself back off. That's why stuttering and sluggish game play results. It can be a long time after power consumption is back under the magic limit before these laptops fully recover and go back to full performance.

The XPS 1645 can and does throttle during normal use. That is how it was designed. Games can become unplayable that would otherwise be playable if these laptops had an adequate power adapter, a bios that allowed the CPU and GPU to use that power and run at full speed and a better cooling solution. You can argue about the details but that's the bottom line.

 

I see. Mine arrives today, and I plan on using it for gaming and college. If it throttles during gaming, would you recommend I return it?

 

If gaming is important and the XPS 1645 can't play the games that are important to you then I guess you should return it. Maybe you will get lucky and throttling will rarely be an issue for you. Just keep in mind that these units are living on the edge of throttling. A slight increase in power consumption can throw you over the cliff.

 

Alright. I'll test it and see. If I were to decide to return it, would I just call dell's customer service?

 

I would guess...

Does anyone know what has been really the best alternative offer for the XPS 16 that DOESN'T throttle??? By alternative I mean via replacement......

 

Just received my 1645 ^_^ I'll test it out later more thoroughly after work.

 

Mine comes today, too. Can't wait!!!

 

Unclewebb, I am running BIOS A09, is there an earlier version I can install which might help the throttling problem? I'm assuming If I call Dell and complain they'll have no idea what I'm even talking about...gaming is great on an external monitor but obviously that's not good enough.

 

Here's one user that was forced to go back to bios A03 on June 2nd and he wasn't the only one.

http://forum.notebookreview.com/6311344-post194.html

A03 was released before the Dell engineers got their hands on ThrottleStop to understand what it's all about. You'll have to do some testing to see what bios works best for you.

Here is another user that I think went back in time to A03:

Fenikkusu
http://forum.notebookreview.com/member.php?u=297670

A03 still throttles but at least ThrottleStop works better to reduce the amount of throttling.

 

Im not talking about my computer, I dropped that a LOOONG time ago. Your proof is coming as soon as it uploads to youtube.

 

If this is not enough proof for you guys about my 1645 well then you're all crazy!

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Idles around 23-40 depending on if a process is using resources and pegs at ~115 watts at full tilt.

 

Wow wish mine ran like that, not only does Fumark stutter when I have Prime open the computer will throttle even with TS open.

 

Well just watched your video...I'm hoping my replacement 1645 w/5730 I got today will run as good as yours! Time will tell, should have some results tonight after I get everything installed.

What program are you using to monitor your temps?
I was using CPUID Hardware Monitor...but it dosn't seem to recognize the 5730 GPU.

 

I'm running the latest version of HWmonitor and it shows the 5730 just fine. Please post your temp results, I will post mine again to compare just for reference when I get home.

 

I don't mean to bash you and your observation.. but your logs were the proof of the pudding....

Your Wattage meter showed it getting to 115-119 if I saw correctly, we can even say 115 to short it and be safe.... but! We must remember the 130 watt adapter doesn't even allow a full 130 watts to be drawn! If you add in small minute things like the fan spinning faster when it has been under load for a while..

Until we know WHAT this adapter pushes out, we won't be able to know if it is in fact the bottleneck.

Also, who games for just a few minutes at a time... let that run for 20-30 minutes and I would actually be happy, for the both of us as I am getting the same thing, if it didn't throttle then....

Mine comes in today and I will try to get a video as well....

 

After seeing that I was jealous, and ran Furmark + Prime for ~27 minutes and other than a few brief hiccups when the CPU wasn't fully loaded, it ran like a charm with consistent multipliers at 12 or above. Furmark was running at 10-20 FPS as well.

I'm a bit confused why it handled this so well but it throttles when I'm playing Crysis....

Also note: No USB mouse plugged in, backlit keyboard off, and screen brightness at about 1/4, wireless enabled and connected (If any of that matters lol)

Attached is the TS log, hiccups at around 14:24 when CPU is not fully loaded.

 

Screen brightness matters a lot.... not sure about the other stuff....

Wow, throttling w/out CPU load?!?!

 

I guess it makes sense that it would cut back CPU power when the CPU wasn't fully loaded, right? (I dunno, I'll let the TS experts chime in)

 

No one ever claimed that their XPS 1645 throttled 100% of the day. For example, in my case, I need to be playing a game at least 20 minutes before throttling begins. Even then it doesn't always happen. If you were to run the tests a half hour and post your results (ThrottleStop log) that would actually be convincing.

I couldn't see everything going on in the video, so I'm not sure which of these things you were doing in some cases, but these could make a few watt difference each:
1. Maximum screen brightness
2. Wireless enabled and connected to a network
3. USB mouse plugged in
4. Backlit keyboard on normal setting (not off or dim)
5. Speakers on medium volume, playing sound/music

If you're not doing all 5 then your laptop certainly isn't being pushed to the fullest, but whatever.

 

One thing to keep in mind is that the power meter you were using measures watts AC from the wall. A Dell power adapter is rated to deliver 130 watts DC to your laptop. As a power adapter heats up, its efficiency can change at converting AC to DC. When you are pulling 115 watts from the wall, your adapter is likely delivering about 100 watts DC to your laptop. You've proven that an XPS 1645 can run at full speed at this power consumption level.

You've already shown us that your laptop throttles. Since you are able to run your laptop right on the edge of throttling, you might want to run Prime95 + Furmark for a longer period of time until it starts to throttle. I know how many DC watts these laptops are allowed to pull from an adapter before they start to throttle so if you did some more testing, you could come up with a number for watts AC when throttling happens. Then other users could go out and buy a Kill-a-Watt meter or similar and would be able to quickly determine how close they are to the throttling point and what that magic throttling number really is.

 

Agreed...................

 

Thanks for the info. unclewebb, your wisdom helps many daily : )

 

06/23/10 14:24:52 12.21 76.1 12.5 100.0 24 74

This line does not represent a hiccup. That is severe clock modulation throttling. A reading of 12.5% means that your CPU is running at 12.5% of its designed performance level and the other 87.5% of the time it has entered an idle state to conserve power. When this happens during the middle of a game, it's game over. You will see severe stuttering and the game will become unplayable. The CPU is performing on par with a 200 MHz CPU at this point. You didn't pay for a Pentium II but that's how it is performing when the bios starts using clock modulation like this.

Your log file also shows that neither the CPU or GPU are anywhere near the throttling point. The only explanation is throttling based on power consumption.

 

My furmark stutters even when i have nothing but furmark open...

ive been running some tests....TS is not recording any throttling but with both furmark and prime95 running the laptop is not as responsive...I don't know if that is normal or not.....

 

All Windows computers are a little unresponsive when fully loaded.

The stuttering problem in Furmark might be related to the ATI drivers you are using. ATI has made some improvements lately so update those if you haven't already.

 

Yeah I guess Im living the XPS 16 dream.

Im using HWinfo32 for temps. I didnt post temps because the room was well over 80F. I was hitting mid 70c range.

Ok Im beginning to think you will never accept my proven data. Sure 1 log showed what seemed to be throttling, but after showing you this you still think its throttling? What I got the other day may have been a software glitch because no matter how long I run both benchmarks now it gets 12 pegged. As for the time I left it running idle for 30 mins to let the wattage settle, and ran the benchmarks for well over 30 min while I packed and cleaned the house THEN I did the video. As of now I have done all I can do without having you in the room watching my every move to prove mine does not throttle and runs well under 130watts. As for the peak wattage it peaked at 115 I think i saw 116 once maybe twice. Eeven if the adapter isnt pumping out 130watts it would need to be 12% or more less then the max to be an issue and well guess what Im not throttling.

The screen makes a difference but a mouse doesnt make too much of a difference from my testing.

1. I am at Max screen brightness all the time (minus when Im on battery surfing)
2. Wifi is enabled as I am no where near my router or switch

3, 4, 5 Really dont make much of a difference on the meter. The wattage is still in the 100-115 range with a few random spikes to 116ish.

No, wrong the meter I used measure the draw from a device on the plug. It measures how much power the unit is using. As stated previously I was testing for a long time today for this video. All in all the PC was running for over 1 hour in over 80f temps and multipliers were pegged at 12. The first log may have shown throttling, I cannot dispute that but I can say that there may have been a discrepancy to cause it as it was only for 10 mins and MUCH cooler room. The test today was in a hotter room and for over 6 times as long. As for more testing I think Ill do one more test, but may wait for a clean install as right now the OS is pretty bloated. But as of now I know Im not maxing the AC adapter (unless its 12% lower then 130watts) and I know my machine can run at the edge and NOT throttle.

 

Well Liquid.. Mine is waiting for me at home and only time will tell... Tonight I shall find out if you have the golden XPS that doesn't throttle.... anymore?!...

 

To measure the DC power output of your adapter, you would need to measure between the adapter and your laptop. If your meter is located between the wall and the power adapter, that is measuring watts AC. The consumer grade meters you buy at the local store measure how many watts AC you are drawing from the wall.

 

ok now I see what you were saying. Either way the draw is below the max and now we need someone to measure the output from the adapter. Sadly I do not have that toy.

 

You're not getting it....

Your ADAPTER is only pulling 115 or so watts... and NOT pulling it's rated 130..... Get it??

 

went ahead and downloaded the latest ati drivers and installed them....

furmark still stutters even when its running by itself...(anyone else experiencing this)?

 

No.. what are all the settings you have it @? (furmark)

 

i tried playing around with all of the settings and it stutters for everything...right now ive got it on 800x600 AA x2 stability test..im also on high performance with my laptop..

it doesnt stutter all the time just every 1.5 sseconds or so it'll hiccup...

i thought this was normal.....

 

Try it with AA off.....

 

The XPS 16 soundsystem is 7 watts.

I really don't know how many watts the USB mouse and backlit keyboard are but I think 2 watts would be a conservative estimate for the pair.

So medium volume + USB mouse + backlit keyboard probably makes a 5+ watt difference which is pretty significant.

 

Mine does the exact same thing.


BTW just got my Windows 7 OS discs from Dell....clean install here I come!

 

still hiccups..

Yours doesnt hiccup at all? Smooth sailing with just furmark running?

 

I'll test the wattage with everything on when I get to my destination. I'm also wondering what a clean install will do for my wattage without some of the junk running.

 

I think this stutter has to do with software reading ATI GPU temperatures. I believe that reading the GPU temperature from the driver can cause a problem but it is hard to prove. On my desktop computer with the 10.6 drivers, this stutter is finally gone.

 

Yeah, I dunno what is up with this 5730.... Furmark chokes like a BBEEEEOOotch..

TS log shows mad chockage.... Liquid must have gotten the golden XPS that is thottle-riddin.... lucky guy.

Download ThrottleStopLog.txt from Sendspace.com - send big files the easy way

GEEZE, guess I gotta hit up Dell again GD!!!!

 

Crazy the 4670 w/900p runs SOOOOOO much smoother in furmark than the 5730 w/1080p.... I am talking like avg diff. of 10fps...

 

I don't think that's true, all people ask for is the TS log as that's what people have used todate to show anything.

It's great news overall if yours doesn't throttle anymore, though the video was quite blurry and didn't show Furmark settings.

Another thing is you are using LED screen which uses less power combined with the new GPU - maybe that's what is required. I'm sure if Dell increased the Watts just by 5 or even 10, I wouldn't see any throttling anymore either on my RGB+4670.

I'm still waiting for that magical A10 BIOS that someone had last weekend to turn up and see if it's fixed.

So post a TS log and all doubters will disappear...

 

THE 5730 w/720 +WLED STILL THROTTLES PEOPLE.

check the log...

 

What can I use to check temps of my hardware?

 

Realtemp or hwmonitor