Any updates on the XPS 16 heating/ throttling issue?

@Uruha
Just to give you an idea about Throttlestop

Throttlestop was designed by forum member Unclewebb originally to eliminate the problem of throttling caused on the SXPS1645 laptop (core i7-720qm and i7-820qm) due to the low (90W) limit imposed on the power draw by this laptop. This problem was initially remedied by the combination of a 130W adapter and Throttlestop working together.

Today, 6 months from when Dell proposed a fix by sending out 130W adapters and BIOS updates for the 1645/1647, throttling problems have been alleviated, but still persist to various degrees for a good number of forum members here. Throttlestop's role has been to monitor throttling, and also, um, stop it . It does not 'increase the amount of heat the CPU can take' - only the amount of power the computer is drawing by preventing the CPU from using clock modulation and drop in multiplier to limit power consumption. This limit has been imposed by Dell through the BIOS. The amount of heat that the CPU can take is set by the manufacturer as the TJMax value - 100C for most modern Intel CPUs.

@wetcardboard
Another forum member (guy called @Prime) had similar temperatures to mine. I know, it really is unbelievable for me as well - as a well and truly stung guy - at one point, my old 4670 used to hit 90 deg C while just playing frickin COD4! This new 5730 seems too good to be true. Its a shame that I have to have both Throttlestop and Rivatuner to have it run properly for longer periods of time, but like I've said before, I saw a max of 80 deg C on Crysis (everything on high, 1080p) at about 30fps for half an hour, and 83 deg C max on Furmark for 20 mins.

 

I got my laptop few days ago (mainly for gaming), I have been playing COD 5&6 and PoP Forgotten Sands, those are the only one's I've got for now. I am using 1080p resolution and AA x2. I haven't experienced any throttling so far, I just finished an hour playing MW2 and those are the temperatures before closing it:
GPU temp: 64 degrees C
CPU: 67 64 66 74

specs:
i7 820QM, HD 5730, 250GB SSD, 4GB RAM, 9-cell battery.

I haven't recorded any FPS data... if someone's interested let me know what to do and I will post results...

 

If you're talking about setting the Win7 power option minimum processor state to 100%.. This setting does nothing for the i7 720QM. It will not generate more heat, will not put out more performance, and it will not use more power.

BTW, I know it is recommended to use ThrottleStop with the minimum at 100% but it seemingly works fine at 5% in monitoring mode (I was curious).

 

Setting the Control Panel -> Power Options -> Minimum processor state to 100% helps keep Windows from interfering with what ThrottleStop wants to do to your CPU to maintain maximum performance. If you think a reduced multiplier when lightly loaded is a good thing then try using the Power Saver option and enable C States in ThrottleStop.

On an i7-720QM, ThrottleStop won't give you any performance increase unless your laptop has throttling problems. It's a good monitoring tool to find out if your laptop is being throttled.

 

hey, i have posted a complaint regarding the problem of overheating and throttling in dell studio xps 16 series in the ideastorm webpage of dell under the product xps- recent ideas. i ask all the affected possessors of xps 16 to promote the idea so that dell can think seriously about the issue.

 

Link for convenience, please.

 

IdeaStorm | XPS

titled:solve the problems of xps 1645

 

Could be slightly more descriptive (discussing temperature limitations), but you actually posted it, so good job.

Sign up on Ideastorm guys, it takes 20 seconds, and click the promote arrow for this idea.

 

I am on it... let's do this guys!!!!

 

Good stuff, promoted and commented!

 

Promoted and commented as well. This problem has honestly lasted wayyyyyy too long without a complete resolution. Please anyone that can, sign up and promote this to the skies (and comment too), maybe then Dell can see that its something that has to be fixed.

 

Here is a TS Log while i was playing multiplayer bad company 2 with all low settings(vsync off). Normally when i use firefox to watch youtube the multipliers fluctuate between 7 and 12.8ish, but when playing BC2 its down to 7.
Anythoughts??

 

I am not using TS or anything to monitor except HWMonitor for temperatures. I kept it on for 2 hours now playing COD MW2 full except AA on x2. Max temps are:
cpu: 77 79 79 76 respectively
gpu: 78
I haven't experienced any throttling or whatsoever. The missions I was playing including some heavy stuff like rain and smoke...

 

ideastorm promoted and commented

 

me too ^^

Ideastorm promoted!

 

Promoted & comment added here.

 

When you are loading your CPU and the multiplier is stuck at 7.0, that's throttling or perhaps just a stuck multiplier. I would have to see the entire log file to see what happened. Usually during throttling you will see the multiplier in the log file clearly step down from 12 to 11 to 10 to 9 to 8 and then sit at 7. Your multiplier is so consistent for such a long period of time that it looks like it is stuck. That could be a bios issue.

7 / 12 = 58% so your CPU is running at 58% of its rated speed. Your CPU is not even fully loaded but it is struggling like that. Call Dell and tell them to fix that problem.

The DTS column shows that the CPU is 25C to 30C degrees away from the Intel designed throttling point so there's no reason for the CPU to be throttling. Are you using a 90 watt adapter and what bios are you using?

 

thank you mrhohoha gpig and unclewebb. I guess I don't need TS then? I got A09 with the 130w, shipped in just this month.
I read the IdeaStorm thing. But what can Dell do? I got myself into a mess by purchasing this XPS :-( its a really nice machine, its just that it gets so hot! Wish they could make the cooling better for free...

 

There's a lot they could do.. The Dell engineers could find out the source of the problem(s).

Perhaps a BIOS update can fix many issues (remove Dell thermal limits, the CPU/GPU can run hotter without problems). Maybe the BIOS update can allow slightly more power in the system, or maybe some of us need higher wattage adapters. Maybe we also need replacement GPUs...

If Dell were a good company, they would determine the source of our problems, tell us the truth, and fix our problems. Maybe Dell just needs to be pushed/encouraged/forced a little bit, and the IdeaStorm may do something.

 

Promoted as well

 

They really need to correct this problem. I don't want my system getting so hot. It was a really expensive investment that we made on our XPS' and they should value us customers to correct this issue. My CPU's temp scares me, 76C on CPUID when i was gaming for a little. I got a reading of 72C on my GPU using some other program since CPUID wont read my GPU. I dont think thats accurate... seems too cool? Im most worried about my CPU if it is accurate though

Just finished an hour of ME2 and i could feel the heat, it was too hot. My cores hit 77 71 79 76...

 

Don't be scared, my CPU temps often hit over 80C on all 4 cores, and my GPU goes up to 98C. As long as the laptop is not on your lap, you have nothing to worry about except throttling. It's not going to catch on fire or leak molten lava

 

what do you use to monitor ur GPU? i wanted something really light like HWMonitor but it wont pick up my GPU. I thought 70C was bad for your laptop and ur perfectly fine with it hitting 80?!

 

I've tried out HWmonitor and Throttlestop, both show my temps for my 4670. I have no problem with these temps except the fan noise. I don't think these are close to dangerous for the laptop - it's not like my HDD gets anywhere close to 70C (more like 52C maximum).

 

Try using GPU-Z. Great little program that is focused on GPU monitoring and information. I use it with HWmonitor. Your temperatures aren't that bad at all really for a laptop. You should really worry when it gets really close to 100C, but you're not even going over 80C on CPU or GPU. On BC2, which is the most load I've put on my CPU + GPU, I get 84C max (~77C average) on GPU and ~80C Max on my hottest CPU core. So you're good. Heat is more of a minor issue (an issue none-the-less), but throttling is the major problem that needs to be fixed. Gpig listed a few things that Dell could do and I agree with him. Even on the more drastic end, Dell could probably design an improved motherboard (fixed throttling) that fits the current chassis+requirements of the XPS 16s we all have, if need be (though I'm guessing the problem would need to be pretty drastic for that to happen, if discovered ). Though that would speak volumes on Dell's part if they were willing to go that far and I'd never leave them .

 

I agree! I would love Dell if they did that! To be honest I havent noticed any throttling at all. I just know that my CPU gets hot. GPU-Z says my GPU only hit 64C after 1 hour of Portal, is it accurate?

 

does anyone know how long it takes to recharge the 9 cell battery with the 130w adapter? it took me 3-4 hours, are there problems with my motherboard? using a09 bios

 

The DC output that Dell limits the 130 watt adapter to is marginal at best when gaming. The result is that it will take a very long time to fully charge a dead battery while you are using your computer for gaming. I don't believe there is any solution for that other than don't game while trying to charge your battery.

 

Unfortunately we are talking about a company that has repeatedly been listed as having one of the worst customer service reputations in the US, as well as recently lost a law suit over deceptive business practices regarding technical issues, as well as refusing to fix such technical issues.

I don't think we should expect too much and just accept that if we want to use the touch pad while gaming we are going to burn our fingerprint off our index finger.

 

REMINDER: PLEASE SIGN UP and PROMOTE PEOPLE!!!!

IdeaStorm | solve the problems of xps 1645

 

Thats you're only post?

I actually bought an XPS because Dell's customer service is supposed to be the best. Every big company gets sued, that does not mean anything.

 

And what if it is his first=only post?!?!

 

What else am I supposed to post? I could add that I also suffer from the same problems other people do, that my laptop starts to heat up to almost unbearable levels(acts as a nice space heater in the bedroom actually, kind of wish I had had it during my winter in Japan), even on a good laptop cooling pad. Although, to be fair, the cooling pad does significantly delay how long it takes to reach temps where it starts throttling the cpu, but the touch pad has long since become untouchable by then, and I cannot use a mouse most of the time(I could previously play Dawn of War 2 or Starcraft 2 for about 20 minutes before it would start to throttle to the point where the game is unplayable, down to a x2 multiplier, now I can play for almost an hour before the touchpad begins to burn my finger to where I cannot touch it). I'm not sure what that adds to the discussion other than one more voice in an already overwhelming choir.

My friend actually has a scar where his XPS 16 burnt him because he had it on his lap for too long. We call our laptops toaster ovens.

...wonder if I could put some type of metal plate on the touch pad and fry an egg?

 

The fact that he burned his lap means he got a lemon.... I lye on my bead all the time in my boxers with my 1640 and my lap has never gotten burned. Yes it gets warm but honestly if a computer can burn your lap wouldn't your first call be to dell? Honestly think.........

 

Well then you guys have a lemon. I leave furmark+prime95 running sometimes for an hour and I never get above 85 celsius for the gpu, and nothing above 80 on the cpu side.

Granted the laptop gets hot especially near the screen thats blocking the vent but i can still touch or hold any part of the laptop without being in any kind of pain.

 

Seemed suspicious that in his first and only post he started bad mouthing Dell. Its one thing to bash the laptop but its another thing to make bold and blatant statements about Dell being the worst company in terms of customer service. That is an exaggeration don't you think?

 

Is BIOS A09? If not, your GPU is throttling and you will have poor Furmark results.

 

I think that I have seen both the ups and downs of Dell.... and they are both extreme...

 

Both me and my friend have had terrible experiences with Dell's "support", although we both got XPS 16 laptops in kind of a "better the devil you know than the one you don't" situation. Perhaps they have gotten better in the past few years, but earlier this decade they received ratings as the worst customer service in the US year after year.

And while it is true that a large company getting sued is not uncommon, Dell being sued in a class action lawsuit because they refused to fix a known technical problem that was causing a 97% failure rate on one of their computer models, even going so far as to deny the technical flaw existed(and telling their customer service reps to deny everything if a customer asked) is kind of relevant to hopes they will fix a glaring technical flaw in the XPS 16 series of laptops, which is what I was responding to.

The temperatures necessary to burn human skin is 130F. A review of the XPS M1640 where they measured the temperature of the laptop casing after 30-60 minutes of intensive benchmarking found the temp between 90 and 130 degrees depending on the area, so burning is not out of the question, although it would likely take prolonged contact to exposed skin(friend got distracted by something his kids were doing and didn't even notice he was getting burnt).

I haven't measured my laptop's external temperatures yet, but the touchpad does get so hot after an hour of playing any intensive game that it hurts to touch it at all, and Dell seems unimpressed by this so far from me talking to their tech support about the heat issue. Running A14 atm because Dell forced me to update the BIOS before they would even talk to me about this issue, including the fact that the GPU was periodically getting so hot it was beginning to malfunction and create green artifacts on the screen.

 

Every company has there ups and downs. Toshiba has worse customer service then dell. I have owned 3 dell systems and the only one i have had problems with is the 1640. I even owned the m1330 and never had 1 problem except a hd failure and dell had a new hd on my doorstep in the morning.

Having such high market share as dell does means there are more and more customers to complain. Just because more % of there customers say they have bad customer service their is still a way higher % of satisfied customers because they have such a high market dominance.

And for a laptop to burn someone would you not automatically call Dell? This is obviously a lemon and you denying that strengths the fact you are being a troll. It would take a prolonged exposure at that temperature to burn skin. Once it start to fell that hot wouldn't your friend have taken it off his lap? This is common sense.

Also Dell has acknowledged the fact that their 1640's have throttling issues.

 

I have talked to a couple different people at the Dell technical support for commercial-level customers(got my laptop through a deal at work, which means I have to actually call the dell's large business support, they will not do anything online) about the problems I've had with my laptop. They acknowledged the throttling issue, sending me the higher watt power cord to replace the original one I got with the laptop(which was coming apart due to horrible design anyways), but have expressed absolutely 0 interest in the fact that after an hour of playing a game my laptop becomes so hot I cannot touch the touch pad. Perhaps I am getting bad luck with the people I talk to there, but so far my service in this regard has been less than stellar.

I'd personally absolutely love if Dell would take the problems with the XPS 16s seriously, but I doubt anything other than a full recall to almost completely redesign the laptop would help, because a lot of the heat problem seems to be design issues. A GPU with lower heat output(without sacrificing performance hopefully), better design of the system itself(lets not cover the fan with the screen please), or something. My wife has a Inspiron laptop that has its main fan on the side, which actually works pretty well other than the fact that with the way we are usually situated it blows the hot air directly on me if she is playing a game. However, short of laptops actually catching fire or causing widespread serious injury it is unlikely that a recall would happen. You can pretty much bet money they have already done a cost-benefit analysis on the situation and found that the loss of a little bit of customer goodwill is worth the savings of not doing a recall.

 

I agree that it is "common sense" to not get burned by leaving something hot as hell on your lap... However, all modern high performance laptops with discrete graphics that I know of can burn your leg if you are, for example, playing a game directly on your lap (not recommended). It's not like he got burned because his laptop was what Dell would consider "malfunctioning" although that's another story.

 

I play with mine on my lap. Haven't had a burn and when it does get to got i move it. I have no problems with my laptop being a LAPtop while playing a game.

 

Is there a difference in heat output and power consumption between the P8600/3670 and 720QM/5730? I would have to think so...If you have a 1640 your point is probably mute.

 

Im receiving a replacement with an i7 720 and a 5730 in a week or two and will prove my point then aswell. There is not need to be rude...... And the fact of the matter is a laptop burning you is a sign of a lemon

 

IT won't "burn" you.. it can def. get hot though... also make your lil swimmers weaker!!! I tend to try and make the effort to not let that happen...

 

K well tell that to KhisanthMagus

 

Try putting the laptop on your BARE legs while playing a game...or even watching a Blu-Ray...then we'll talk. Just because your skin isn't sizzling doesn't mean you arent getting burnt. If you put your hand up to something and its too hot to keep your hand on said surface, your probably getting burnt. Could the laptop have a better cooling system? Of course, but you also have to look at how hot the cpu is and how little material there is between the heatsink and the bottom middle of the laptop. For such high end components this is a VERY thin and lightweight laptop IMO.

I always have jeans on when using this unit, it gets a little warm at times but not to the point where it's THAT BAD. I also dont game on my lap and when watching movies I always make sure the vent isn't being blocked.

 

Maybe I was wrong when I said it can burn your leg.. but it can definitely burn mine.. maybe I have sensitive skin but I didn't really think so.

Anyway, my story is I had a Thinkpad T61p, I would play games with it sometimes on my lap, and it always got warm/hot in the corner. It never really hurt me while I was using it, but one day I noticed burn marks exactly where the fan was (the hottest part of the laptop). There was no real pain, but the burn marks were real. I decided to buy a lapdesk so the laptop would not be on my lap anymore. There are many factors involved, I assume things like thick Jeans would reduce the heat, ect. I haven't bothered to try a game directly on my lap with the XPS 16 because it runs quite a bit hotter than my Thinkpad T61p.

P.S. The Thinkpad T61p was never directly on the skin of leg either, I always wear pants/shorts.

Edit: Bill from Dell already said on these forums that Dell calling the XPS 16 a "laptop" is a misnomer, and that it should not be used on your lap.

 

remember that this notebook is packing a lot of power. hell, it's even thinner than my current notebook (which is coming up to 4 years now). i don't really think that heat is a "problem" as notebooks with similar hardware configurations come with much thicker chasses (e.g. the 1645 is 24mm-34mm thick, while the Sager NP8690 is 42mm-51mm and the Asus G51JX-QB1 is 37mm-41mm thick) and a whole pound heavier in all cases.

i'm not trying to pick sides, but i'm just trying to say that with this kind of hardware packed into a supposedly "thin" notebook chassis (for this screen size at least), i can't imagine a cooler system.

Dell definitely made a huge mistake by putting this configuration into such a thin chassis. heat is certainly an issue as pointed out by many, but it cannot be unexpected by educated buyers.