Audio Latency Problems/Solutions With All Dell Studio & Studio XPS(And any other one) Discussions

To clarify what Breece quoted, thesameguy is talking about running XP. Someone a few posts above him (in the main 1340 thread) said XP had the usual spikes for them though, so I think we'd need someone else running XP to confirm at this point.

 

this could be the solution to the DPC latency issue - I hope! And also perhaps the problem of vituralisation technology not being enabled but that's for a different thread I believe - though the answer could be one in the same so it's worth a mention.

The latest version of the Phoenix BIOS on the dell website is A04. I went to the Phoenix website to check if there was a more up to date version directly from the manufacturer and sadly they only offer a piece of software that scans your computer and tells you if you need a bios update - and to get the update you need to pay $29. Anyway I ran the software and indeed it does say the bios for the computer is not the most up-to-date Phoenix BIOS available for the computer....? Could it be that if I installed the updated bios they offer that could solve the issues of DPC latency spikes & the issue with virtualisation technology not being enabled? I thought I'd put it to the forums before I paid the $29. What do you guys think? - here's the link to the bios software: http://biosagentplus.com/?ref=29&PHPSESSID=osqkq8o6ud10p7ijjiaau6t857

And yes I hear you cry... biosagentplus.com??? that's not the official phoenix.com website - however if you go to www.phoenix.com and then click on the main page 'bios update' that's the page you are taken to - they are the official bios update and support centre for phoenix.

 

The Virtualisation settings in the BIOS where not there in earlier versions of a lot of models if I remember rightly but appeared with BIOS updates. Maybe the same will happen with the XPS Studios.

 

I wonder if you'd lose any functionality by not using a Dell-specific BIOS - for instance I'm pretty sure the BIOS controls the multimedia keys. Of course that's not a huge deal if it fixes the latency.

 

Or you will not be able to boot and will need to re-flash a recovery BIOS...which may or may not work if you did not use a DELL BIOS.

You guys don't seem to understand Phoenix DOES NOT PROGRAM OR UPDATE BIOS for DELL LAPTOPS.

They are one of 3 major contributors to BIOS code and implementation...

They provide the base outline which DELL then takes and modifies to work with the SPECIFIC hardware it is using.

PHOENIX does not have a dept or a want/need to program/re-program a BIOS for a DELL machine.

The best chance you have is that someone who knows how to modify an existing BIOS can take the DELL one and improve on it.

You have a 99 perfect chance of bricking your ROM if you FLASH a BIOS that does not have the built in hooks to prevent it from installing on the wrong hardware. The you have to hope that they have a recovery BIOS available that will allow to at least boot up again to try and re apply the DELL BIOS.

I'm trying to keep someone from having a really bad night messing around with things that...if they understood how they function...would not attempt.

On TOP of all this DELL uses custom boards from INTEL in almost every PC they make , remember how I mentioned SPECIFIC hardware???(and they can it is cheaper for them and INTEL to manufacturer this way, they almost always use lower binned IC's etc compared to retail INTEL products) which makes using a basic BIOS for that board series from the BIOS manufacturer even less likely to work...

DELL BIOS's have also been known to use a NON-STANDARD form of compression eg. not the same compression PHOENIX uses which creates another layer of complexity

SO PLEASE...unless you know what you are doing or can risk not having this laptop to use...possibly ever. Be PATIENT...wait for the next DELL BIOS update.

If it make you feel any better sony's top of the line Z series notebook has VT disabled via the BIOS and has far less options then the average DELL BIOS .

 

Hi Guys,

Sorry to bring this up again, but I just wanted to share my experiences of installing XP on my XPS M1530 specifically for audio recording.

I didn't have too many issues with using Vista for recording, it was just so painfully resource hungry that I decided on a dual Vista / XP setup.

So my XP setup contains drivers for everything on the laptop including latest video card drivers off laptopvideo2go. All the unnecessary hardware such as the webcam, card reader, finger print reader etc is disabled along with all networking. I'm using a Firewire soundcard and not getting any latency spikes at all unlike my experiences of Vista, especially when recording MIDI through a VST.

So perhaps the operating system does make a huge difference - or perhaps disabling half the hardware on your laptop does it.

 

Hi guys...

I just bought dell studio xps 16 2 weeks ago...and I just found out that this laptop has dpc latency error... T.T

I checked using dpc latency checker software.. and
found that,I got 4000us every 5 sec



I still got 8 days left before my refund expire...

Do you guys have any recommend, which laptop I should buy beside studio xps 16?
I'm looking for the same spec and performance...and of course, no dpc latency problem at all..

But honestly, I really like this laptop...the performance is wow!!!
if it doesn't have audio latency problem, I would recommend for all people to buy this laptop...




Thank you guys...

 

slidget, if you don't need your laptop to do some recording stuff then this problem will not affect other performance.

 

Does it matter what you'll be using to record through? Because I have an XPS 16 and was thinking of getting a line6 guitar port or a PreSonus FireBox for recording some guitars/vocals.

 

I got my xps16 exactly a week now and I think I will return it.
10 minutes ago the technician left, he changed the mainboard and also removed the bluetooth and the wlan chips (physically), but to no effect.
Mine's got awesome specs but just isn't capacle of doing what I want to.
If you just want to record no matter what audio latency: keep it.

The problem is that the dpc latency spikes are added to your normal audio (asio) latency. in my case, 256 samples in my m-audio fw 410 with audiolatency 10-12ms, it keeps crackling every four seconds. If you make audio latency high enough the crackles disappear, but you cant use it as a live effect device (ableton live) or to play vst-instruments in realtime. This has nothing to do with the audio hardware. The latency spikes keep coming no matter what hardware and they directly correlate to the crackles.

important too: I installed a dual boot xp sp3 and vista sp1 and tested everything in both os (no network chips, devicedrivers disabled/not installed)- nothing worked.

heres some stuff I found since I began getting into this issue:

http://www.native-instruments.com/forum_us/showthread.php?t=71021&page=4

different model same problem:
http://forum.notebookreview.com/showthread.php?t=325129 and http://forum.notebookreview.com/showthread.php?t=341893
I tried everything, nothing worked

theres also an experimental way to get it to work. it's about removing acpi.sys. i didnt tried it as I dont know what happens to my guarantee and i'm no hacker, but heres the link (also different model): http://www.native-instruments.com/forum/showthread.php?t=82401

if someone tries it please post results!!

 

Hi hanming..

yeah.. I am not that really into audio geek...

but you know, I expect the perfection because it is new laptop and of course it is so expensive...
I don't mind with the audio latency that shows redbar every 5second...but you know, I'm thinking of the future..what if it is getting worse and I don't have a choice but repair ?

Right now I still can do refund if I want...

That's the point...

you know, I just wanna share some of my experiences...
sorry for my bad english though...

Before I bought my dell studio xps 16, I had a hp hdx 16"
and you know what, It was really cool!!! I think it is almost the perfect laptop I've ever had...the design is really cool, the performance is wow!
I think it is better little bit than this dell studio xps 16"
but you know what? It got dpc latency problem... T.T
the audio latency problem in that hp was worse than this dell laptop...
and most people in the forum said that, it was because HP laptops are using nvidia..that's why... and they recommend me to buy dell...but right now, I got the same error...
I don't know where to go any more...

This problem seems, spread out so fast.... Hp has the problem, dell has the problem.... I don't like sony, because their laptop is expensive just because of the name of the brand (you guys got it ?)... I was looking for toshiba laptop, but there was no laptop that I interested... I don't know about Asus, but it seems like old fashioned laptop...

Could you guys have any recommend for the laptop I should buy ?

Thanks guys...

 

Well, if you don't want dell, sony, toshiba, and hp then asus is the only one.(IMO) They are quite cheap on newegg that you can get 9800m gs with only 1299.99.. however one con for most of the asus is that they don't have LED screen. Most of my friends have asus and the dpc test showed that they have something around 1000 constantly but it is within the ok range.

 

I went through a lot of notebooks like the Dell Studio, the Lenovo IdeaPad, and a few HP machines trying to find one without DPC latency problems. I finally ended up with a Dell Latitude E6500 that has nice green bars for latency. I'd recommend either the Latitude E6500 or the Precision M4400 if you are looking for a big 15 inch screen. They can be configured with different Intel or Nvidia cards if you need gaming or graphics performance. If you want something slightly smaller the Latitude E6400 would work too.

You can see a picture of my DPC latency bars in this thread here:

http://forum.notebookreview.com/showthread.php?t=364436

 

Just for interesting reference, this is the latency on my desktop with everything on (though it doesn't have wireless). The graph scales up as it goes up, so it's actually better than it looks. Average is about 10us, as opposed to, y'know, 4000.

 

Thanks for your response guys..
Really appreciate it..

I'm in uncertain situation right now... I still have 7 days left before my refund expire...but you know, I have to pay for the shipping which I don't know how much it's gonna cost...

I have attached the picture of the latency in my laptop...

I really need your opinion here guys...

I don't know what to do.. either return it or just keep it...
If I decide to return this laptop, it's gonna cost me more money and it's gonna makes me more headache...
If I decide to keep it...it's gonna be fine for me..but I don't know what's gonna happen in the future...


What you guys think if you were me ? return it or keep it?

 

What desktop model is that?

The 4k red spikes every 4 seconds is the same reason I returned my Dell Studio 1537, a Lenovo IdeaPad, and an HP. All of them have the same problem and no software fixes were available.

I'm guessing they all use a similar motherboard or similar components or something that will require either a BIOS fix or a hardware change. I wouldn't risk waiting for the fix. Just return it and move on.

 

That's odd. SXPS 16 is even worse than SXPS13. Mine has red bars every 5seconds and the highest is around 3600... But I like to keep it. The reason is that it is cool, stylish, and fast. Also I will never do any recording stuff which is perfect for me.

 

It's not a pre-built system but it's an Athlon 64 X2 4200+ with a Gigabyte GA-K8NF9 Ultra motherboard and a Leadtek GeForce 7600 GT for graphics.

 

@ sliget
it really depends.
if you want to use it as a professional recording or video editing machine : return it.
if not: enjoy it!

 

I don't get it. The professional audio recording bit... most of you users seem to disqualify the machine based on the DPC Latency tool only and the spikes it reports. But does it really matter in your particular audio setup?

Here I am. Repeating myself.
Running a mobile sound studio using a Dell Studio XPS1640.
Using an external Firewire audio interface of course.
Using a second, external hard drive for audio.
Having the same massive latency spikes like you guys.
Using Pro Tools audio software.
Using the dreaded CPU hogging Vista 32bit OS.

And I can record and playback as many tracks as the power of the machine allows -
WITHOUT ONE SINGLE DROPOUT OR GLITCH IN THE AUDIO.

So, inside Pro Tools, the no. 1 DAW application in the world, a professional audio application, I have no problems using this laptop.

 

I've made another observance: (being no audio pro myself)

When a sound is being played after a period of silence (2-3 minutes) on my XPS1640, I hear this small crackle right before the sound starts, often even chipping off the very beginning of the sound. To a non-techie like me, it sounds as if the sound chipset was being turned 'on' before being able to play sounds.
Has anyone experienced this? Could this be a latency-connected issue? Or is it just plain malfunction?

 

I asked the same question just yesterday. I'd say it's bad programming of the audio engine.

http://forum.notebookreview.com/showthread.php?t=374811

 

Yes, but first off I can't even get my Presonus FST firewire interface to connect at all. I have the exact same red bars, when I connect my FST the app's tray icon appears and dissapears every 4-5 seconds, keeping a beat with the red bars in DPC Latency Checker.

Connected to the built in 4-pin 1394 > onboard RICOH firewire chipset? Or are you using an addon firewire card in the Express54 slot? I can't find a definitive answer if that could actually help.. I mean I know it won't fix the red bars issue, but could it at least get my FST connected?

But at what sample rate and buffer size? How low is your latency when playing a VSTi instrument from a midi keyboard controller? If all you are doing is mobile multitracking live bands and micing everything, I guess latency wouldn't matter much, you could use a large buffer size to get smooth audio despite the 'red bars'.

I'll be actively watching this thread for answers, and I'll be sure to report any solutions I find. BTW, I just installed latest BIOS A06 dated Apr 21st 2009... no difference.

 

You are probably running a higher buffer setting than most...if you try to lower it you will get drop-outs...

The whole issue with DPC is it keeps you from using the lowest possible buffer size/latency on DAW software....so yes you can make it work but a machine without the DPC latency will run better with a smaller buffer and less latency

This is in response to the pro-tools guy...any DAW can do it but we are 2009 not 1998 so we need not use a large buffer and high latency

 

Hjorte, which Pro Tools hardware are you using, and is this on low buffer settings? Mine started getting issues with the buffer below 512 on an MBox 2, no matter what I disabled. Someone earlier said their M-powered Pro Tools seemed to be working fine, however.

 

@ robboman, I'll get back to you. You have some good points, but I'm at work right now and can't do a couple of test I have in mind.
I'm using the built-in Ricoh fw ctrl.

@ Nition, M-Audio 1814 Firewire. 128 samples buffer, it's the lowest M-Powered will go with the 1814. It's a designed limitation/capping, not a problem locally with my laptop.

 

128 would be plenty low enough to get issues; seems like M-Powered just doesn't mind the latency for some reason. Oh well, that's a plus.

 

I had the the popping and cracling audio problems when I had Vista on my laptop. Since I installed Windows 7 the audio problems have disapeared.

I think the problem can be traced back to the audio changes Microsoft made with Vista.

 

Sorry but this is not an issue with Vista...theres millions of vista machines that are have no audio issues.

This has already been tracked down...(do some research if you want to really know) to poor IRQ assignment from the BIOS.

Untill Dell either changes the IRQ values for specific hardware or they create a larger BIOS to allow for proper addressing this will not go away.

 

It could be something to do with this specific BIOS AND Vista though, since some installing XP have reported the spikes to be gone. Obviously it's not Vista on its own.

 

People in other latency posts have run XP and Vista on the same machine and found XP to be better, also good reports about the latency results in Win7 so the OS does seem to have an effect.

It may be a BIOS problem but it's a problem machines from other manufacturers are experiencing too - I've seen many posts from users of many brands with similar results - so it's not just a Dell thing.

My guess is it's a combination of BIOS, OS and platform. PCI-E has already proved to be a step backward really from the old PCI bus - Audio performance was not really the driving force behind the need for PCI-E which was mainly for more bandwidth for graphics. PCI-E is great for moving huge swathes of data across the bus in one fell swoop but there's a fair amount of overhead to do it. Streaming multitrack audio doesn't work like that - it uses much smaller data packets but with the same overhead per click. It's the main reason why it's taken 2 years + for PCI-E soundcards to appear and some major manufacturers still don't have a PCI-E desktop or Expresscard laptop card. Least with a desktop you can usually whack a PCI card in there.

 

This issue already has a solution. The mechanics are already known....read up if you want to be informed....


This can happy to any machine that has a poorly programmed BIOS.

All the other esoteric side effects and situations are a combination of many variables.

IRQ conflicts ARE the CAUSE PEOPLE!


M-Audio has been nice enough to write this up for people.

http://www.m-audio.com/index.php?do=support.faq&ID=80d7b56e35ea51e73104295aec1f755b

Some of these things can't be done with certain OS's but the problem is the BIOS... the OS only widens or narrows our workaround options.

 

That's a good guide. Too bad none of their solutions (disabling devices, changing BIOS settings, removing cards) work here, so we're still stuck hoping Dell fixes the BIOS.

 

I'm wondering if Dell will ever address this issue. Are they even aware of it? Don't we all have to register a problem at Dell to have them become aware? What's the best way to apply pressure and make Dell aware? What are the odds that they will listen? What are your experinces on this - do Dell listen and act?

How do we go about it? Speak up!

 

Greetings all, I have had a 1537 since the beginning of the year, like everyone else I'm experiencing the same issues: lantecy, Media Bar, etc. I can live with disconnecting the Media Bar, but I bought this laptop to use Ableton Live which I can't do! I tried the XP install and as I recall I couldn't get rid of the red bars in the dpc tool. Has their been any type of multiuser approach to contacting Dell? I can't believe they are not addressing this issue or are we too small of a minority?

 

Hallooo guys... how are you today?

Sorry for the late reply, I went out the whole weekend so...

Dell agent called me this morning regarding the refund for my dell studio xps 16... and they will send somebody to pick it up...

huaaa....finally...

so...

I went to bestbuy yesterday...and looked around...finding a laptop that has the same spec...and I was looking at toshiba a350 -04t it is 16" screen and has 512mb ATI video card

have you guys ever heard about this laptop ? is it good?

So, I asked the staff there...and I told him that if I can check the laptop before I buy...
I said to him that I've bad experience with audio latency, so I would like to check the laptop using DPC Latency checker software.. and he said, yes..sure

hahaha... just wanna share my experience...

if this laptop (toshiba a350) is good and there's no problem with audio latency, I'll take it...
What do you guys think?

 

Theres a recent thread going about this on Dell forums specific to the Studio XPS 13 and 16 laptops, a user confirmed it's a problem with ACPI on this system.

http://en.community.dell.com/forums/p/19270658/19477741.aspx#19477741

Since you can't defeat ACPI in Vista/Win7, we're probably at the mercy of Dell and Microsoft to eventually come up with either a BIOS or an OS fix.

 

I'm the poster from the thread on Dell Forum.

I can confirm that suspending ACPI on windows XP SP3 instantly stop the spikes on DPC Latency checker.

I installed XP with multi-boot option on my XPS 16, and I still have no solution to fix the problem on Vista as far as Vista refuses to suspend ACPI using ProcessExplorer.

Using Ableton Live with RME MultiFace audio card with the proprietary PCI express card I was not able to have less than 48ms audio latency (2048 samples) under Vista without glitches.

Same machine, same card, same program, but under XP with ACPI suspended : 3ms with no glitches !


Same problem occurs on the whole Studio & Studio XPS serie.

 

I can't find anything about ACPI in Process Explorer. Where can I find it to see if I can suspend it?

I am having the same problem with XPS M1730.

 

Under Vista you simply cant disable it.

Under XP, right-click on "SYSTEM" tree node, go "Properties" then "Threads" tabs, find the one starting with "acpi.sys" and click on "Suspend".

 

To those who are experiencing crackles right after a period of inactivity:

The cpu might have automatically switched to a different state in order to save power (e.g. 600mhz instead of 2.5ghz). When your VSTi instrument starts playing sounds again, it might require more cpu speed than what is initially available before the cpu switches to full speed again, hence the crackles.

Instead of messing around with ACPI settings, you might want to take a look at SpeedswitchXP: http://www.diefer.de/speedswitchxp/

I do not know if it works on Windows Vista or Windows 7, but it works for me on Windows XP SP3 running on a Dell E6400 with a Core 2 Duo (T9400) cpu. I have also used it on a Dell D800 with a 1.7Ghz Pentium M cpu.

 

When plugged in default power profiles will not cause this issue.

I know your not testing on battery now.

 

I connected a MIDI keyboard to the Studio XPS via USB and recorded a few tracks in a MIDI sequencer. In Vista, the time it takes from pressing a key until the PC speakers make a sound is about half a second. (Is that latency?)

Then I booted a live version of pure:dyne Linux and did the same thing (but different sequencer). There, the lag was almost inaudible.

What does that tell us? Does it tell anything?

 

Recently updated to the new Bios A07 and installed new catalyst drivers as well as new Intel Wifi Drivers that just appeared on the Dell Website as well. Ran DPC latency checker and voila no more red or yellow bars at all!!!

Here is my setup
Studio XPS 16 (1640) Laptop: Intel Core 2 Duo P8600 (3MB cache/2.4GHz/1066Mhz FSB) w/2.0MP Integrated Webcam
Windows Vista Home Premium 64-bit
Intel WiFi Link 5100 802.11a/g/n Draft Mini Card
Dell Wireless 370 Bluetooth Module
90W AC Adapter
125V Power Cord
4 GB DDR3 SDRAM 1066MHz (2 DIMMs)
Blu-ray Disc Combo (DVD+/-RW + BD-ROM)
512MB ATI Mobility RADEON HD 3670
16 inch Edge-to-Edge HD Widescreen WLED LCD (1366x768)
320 GB Free Fall Sensor Hard Drive (7200 RPM)
6 Cell Primary Battery

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Syphic those 500ms spikes you're getting are still pretty brutal.. that's still not gonna work at low latencies, makes stuff like the RME fireface useless

I understand you must be really happy to see an improvement, cause its a step in the right direction, but lets not give Dell the impression anything is "fixed"

 

You are very right. Theres still a ways to go. For my personal dj use, its working out ok.

 

ADVICE - Upgrade your WIFI minicard to an intel adaptor.

The culprit here is most likely something you wouldn't expect. I tried many sound drivers none of which solved occasional skip/stutter problem, even noticable on windows bootup.

The solution that clearly works is to disable the wireless card.
A dell 1395 manufactured by broadcom.
Looking into the issue I can see than all dell wireless cards (not intel ones) cause this problem and you can see if yours is responsible by
double clicking on wireless icon and refreshing the list of servers.
On mine the sound will skip everytime.

I downloaded a latency program that showed latency of 25000 microseconds when wifi searched, which it does about every 30 seconds or so.
Some people have modified wifi drivers for vista.
I'm using XP so no such luck.

People have tried upgrading to intel wifi adaptor which successfully solved the problem. So I've got my intel wireless 4965 on order (this also supports wireless N for super fast conneciton, and is supposed to be twice as good in terms of range too) and will let you know if this fixes it. On ebay you can get one for a fiver. Surely thats worth it if you regularly listen to music.

I'm hopeful as when I've accidentally installed wrong wifi driver and therefore disabled the card, the system has booted up without any stutter whatsoever.

 

Wifi is to blame - Dell 1395 is terrible from what I've read. When I turn it off red latency bars go away in DPC latency check.
So I've an intel 4965 wifi (people who upgraded to intel didn't have this problem any longer) so on order (not bad for a fiver off ebay)

 

Are you using a 1340 or a 1640? Disabling or removing wifi entirely hasn't helped others (or myself) apart from a small decrease in overall latency, so we had decided from the start that it wasn't the culprit here.

 

I just updated to Bios A07 and my red spikes (4000 ms every 4 seconds) in DPC latency checker are gone!

It's not all perfect, but it has gotten a lot better.

My system:
SXPS 1640
P8400
3GB RAM
Intel Wifi 5100 802.11 a/b/g/n 1X2 1/2 Mini Card European