Beware! Display Quality on SXPS16 not on par with reviews

I am positive. I have had 2 Dells before. But Dell have a history have using poor Panels. There are many threads on their XPS 1530, XPS M1710 and XPS M1730 that focus on those issues.

The only reason I am writing this is to make Dell react and improve their products. I also write in the French and German forums (the German forum is actually read by their EMEA press review manager).

 

You can change the video overlays on this laptop too, but this only solves the greyscale and on this latop actually reduces contrast. This is because the issue is mainly below 80% brightness

I am positive my panel isn't a lemon. As I said, the screen is ok, just not great. And there is no way a broken panel would oversaturate or overilluminate blacks!

 

Because this topic states it's not on par with reviews, I thought it would only be fair to post those reviews and see exactly what they do say.
I'm not arguing the calibration facts presented, it just shows the opinions and perceptions of others.

I wasn't selective in my review choices, I am taking the first 10 actual hands on reviews from a google search on "studio xps 15 review" in order, ignoring duplicate reviews. One Wled is reviewed, it is noted wled.

What do they say?

They say nothing negative but indeed the opposite, except speaking of the glare that happens with all glossy screens.
One mention of dithering in F.E.A.R.

http://www.pcmag.com/article2/0,2817,2338322,00.asp

http://www.pcadvisor.co.uk/reviews/index.cfm?reviewid=109528

http://www.laptopmag.com/review/laptops/dell-xps-studio-16.aspx

http://reviews.cnet.com/laptops/dell-studio-xps-16/4505-3121_7-33490510.html?tag=txt;page

http://computershopper.com/laptops/reviews/dell-studio-xps-16

http://www.extremetech.com/article2/0,2845,2338393,00.asp

http://www.digitgeek.com/dell-studio-xps-16-review/

http://www.cnet.com.au/laptops/laptops/0,239035649,339294908,00.htm

WLED
http://www.notebookcheck.net/Dell-Studio-XPS-13-XPS-16-Hands-On-Test.14064.0.html

http://www.notebookreview.com/default.asp?newsID=4764

Well, the reviews didn't state they calibrated it but their opinion and perception was, it was gorgeous with many editors choices.
Notebook review was always careful to say "their review unit" because mileage may vary.
It's great to have a professional level calibrated opinion but in the end it's perception. Ones person oversaturation is another persons "we’ve never seen colors so vibrant from a laptop. Reds, greens, and blues are rich and well saturated". With a matte screen it would "look" less vibrant, no doubt.

The biggest problem for me will be glossy, I've never had it, always avoiding it, and reflections are bound to be an issue for me at times. That's my biggest deterrent by a huge margin. Maybe an anti-glare protector will fix the glare and any potential perceived over saturation issues all at once

 

But there are other reviews and they also taint the percepion of potential buyers. Many review web sites have special deals with manufacturers to the be the first to review their laptops. Most of them wrote rave reviews about this laptop. But very often those web sites get sent a panel with different properties built in versus the commercial version. There are many instances of a particular panel model being tested and then no user on the forums actually gets this particular panel.

I am a user. I purchased this laptop based on those reviews. I amnot testing a pre-series laptop, nor an artificially enhanced laptop. I am testing what people get when they order. If some reviews taint people's experience, then why should my review not do the same. I didn't say the panel was crap. I said it is ok but not great. I didn't say you won't like it. I am saying if you are a gamer you may like it, if you are a film viewer you may like it if you don't mind poor black levels and incorrect colors.

There are other issues on this laptop that were "kindly" overlooked or minimized by those reviews. The heat issue is a serious issue. Playing on this laptop gives you sweaty hands, which make the touch pad difficult to use, and genereally the hot touch is bothersome. I am using RMClock to automatically downclock the processor when no intensive applications are running. And yet when doing nothing else but surfing the Internet the laptop stilll feels warm and the vents are louder than on my XPS M1710 and XPS M1730 (both gaming laptops with high end, power-hungry components).

Overall it is not bad and I must admit I haven't tested competition yet but will do so soon. There are other laptops running cooler and that actually have better components.

Viable alternatives are:
HP HDX x16 1101EG (new version to come out in the next few days, 3DMark06 performance around 5500). Price around 1400 EUR.
Sony AW
Clevo M860TU (best performance of all 3 with with 3DMark06 around 10500, slient mode and cool temperatures, high contrast screen but max luminance @ 160cd/m² in their revised version). Price around 1500 EUR. This is the one I have now ordered.

My configuration cost 2,000 EUR! but I paid EUR 1750 after negotiating lie crazy. Still this remains expensive for a laptop that isn't fun to use (heat) and doesn't yield geat performance.

 

You can't really fault puremind on this one. He/she merely speaks based on the tests s/he did on a hardware calibration device. Just based on that, his/her word is more 'credible' than reviewers who didn't even bother checking objectively how accurate the colors of the 1640 are. At least until another 1640 reviewer with a calibrator proves him/her wrong.

 

I'm not, as I said I wasn't contesting the facts.
Can't fault me for offering a lamens opinion, reminding people it's about perception in the end.

Believe it or not I have been watching LCD's without HW calibrators, I've been totally fine.
There is a certain excellence I desire, but somewhere you have to trade something to get the #1 product and it will almost always come back to some personal preference.

I understand that Puremind was anticipating better than he got, that is obvious. But I also know his standards of what is flawed or just "ok", may just be 'his' subjective standards irrespective of a what the machine tells you you should like or not.

I also think that the whole idea that people want 24fps video with digital equipment so it looks like film, is frackin nuts. But that is mine and their perception. I have an HD camera capable of it but I'd prefer 120p or 240p sync'd to the TV.

 

Thanks for posting this. This proves my point. The reviews advertise a great (stunning and gorgeous!) panel while in fact what people get is a good panel with some flaws.

I read every review you quoted, and this is why I needed to post my own review.

I do not agree on several points:

1. The screen should not appeal to photographers
2. There is no way you can describe the blacks as inky by any stretching of what inky means!
3. The contrast is ok but not great
4. 300nits is a rounded up figure. This screen reaches 286cd/m² on a particular spot, but the average brightness is around 260cd/m² (which is still a great value)

To be fair I do not mind the oversaturation so much, what annoys me most are the black levels and greenish greyscale below 50% stimulous.

 

I didn't mean to come off as a thorn in your side. Yes their are definite issues like with heat, etc. I only wanted to give something people to think about. I too like to do my research and picked this as my #1 candidate so I'm hoping I can deal with it's idiosyncrasies unless something better comes along with idiosyncrasies that aren't as bad to me.

 

To be fair, 24fps is useful to avoid 3:2 pulldown tearing. I haven't seen too many people preferring 24fps over 120/240, only 60. But of course, there will always be the nuts out to there who prefer the "natural" sounds of an LP as well.

 

You must have missed the sections about perception.
Fair enough.

 

Hi all,

I would like to tell you that an exactly same thread exists in the Precision forums.

Let me start by stating the following.

There is nothing wrong with the screen. (At least I think so )

The reason why the colours appear oversaturated is explained in every detail at a post by Dreamer. (post no87) at the linked thread above.
If you want to know why and understand what is going on start reading from his post and read the posts that follow.

The reason for the "incorrect" colours is because all actual OSs cannot handle them. I will not start talking about 6bit and 8bit here go read Dreamer's post.
Apparently Win7 oversomes this issue and there was also a post about in some photo forums.

http://photography-on-the.net/forum/...d.php?t=633562
http://forums.dpreview.com/forums/re...ssage=30175017

Otherwise the screen is magnificent. If you do not work in the photo domain you will love it the moment you will see it. If you work the colours will indeed appear oversaturated and it might cause you problems. On the other hand other users have stated that they managed to correctly calibrate the screen by using hardware calibrators (this is also found in the thead I posted at the begining)

I personnaly will install Win7 as soon as I find time and tell you if there is a change.

I will repeat myself. Go read post 87 by Dreamer at the linked thread.

 

Yeah, Clevo wouldn't work for me but HP possibly, I'd have to see "all" the specs more clearly.
This Dell was the only one that had everything I wanted. Only to find out in the last couple days I can also get the new kickass 256GB Samsung SSD for only a $400 upgrade.
I'm not getting it as a gaming rig, may not play many games on it at all really. Primarily a business replacement with the best all-in-one features I wanted.

 

Can other users confirm which panel they have in their SXPS 16?

So far only the Samsung SEC5448 was reported. Anyone has a different panel, please speak out.

This is how you check:

Control Panel > Hardware > Device Manager > PnP Monitor > Hardware ID (on the Details tab)

 

Both links are not working for me.

 

Is there a way to check revisions? Don't know but their is a possibility a new revision might get planted on the laptop some day.

 

http://forum.notebookreview.com/showthread.php?t=331809&page=9

I do not know how to link directly to a thread. Find post no 87

 

I don't necessarily need a gaming laptop for now. The kick- gaming laptops will come out in April/May after the Cebit in Hannover (6th to 8th March).

I just need a system that plays Blurays correctly and that runs cool.

So for me the panel and 5.1 HDMI audio is key. I don't mind lower gaming performance as long as I can play ok for the time being.

This is what is so annoying to me on this laptop. It doesn't have power hungry compoments and it should run way cooler than it does. The design makes you expect a cool-running laptop that is fun to use for daily activities but it doesn't deliver on this promise.

Other minor gripes with this laptop, the black coating. It looks nice on the pictures but it attracts and retains dirts and fingerprints like no other coating I have ever had on any laptop. And overall the laptop is too black and dark for daily use.

The new HP HDX s16 is tempting but it is not yet available in Germany, so I am giving a go at the Clevo. I can still return it if I am not happy.

 

This laptop runs very cool for me. CPU Core tempretures are 35C, 95F.

 

good info, It's the other two links that were broke.

I still cannot find a Samsung part number for this panel, or find it's specs on Samsung.
Their is only one place I found it but it shows no info except it exists.

 

I can confirm that I have the same model

 

After scouring everything from Samsung to resellers, I've come to the conclusion that there is no Samsung specs on the web for this animal.
Only one that comes close is LTN160HT, but that it isn't it.

This is probably a Dell specific panel built on some kind of Samsung panel tech.

 

If you mean the heat issue was underplayed on all of the reviews, I would disagree. The NBR review, if you read it to the end, talked about how hot it can get.

No it doesn't. If you do an experiment, you SHOULD do it more than one time. Actually... it proves the opposite of what you said... But kudos... it takes someone like a politician to misconstrue the facts to show the opposite of what they prove.

 

Like I said before, this laptop isn't made for professional image/video editing. I do quite a lot of photography and my desktop monitors are calibrated so I don't see why I would use the 1640 to edit my images. In any case most professional image editors have special workstations to make sure they have perfect colors...

As for this laptop the colors are great while you're doing normal every day things on it, while watching a blu-ray movie reds really jump out but it doesn't mean it isn't watchable. I haven't calibrated it yet and won't have time to before the end of the week...

Anyways MadBoris, I'm sure you're going to enjoy it. If anyone needs me to, I can take some pictures while playing a movie to show how much reds pop out

 

That would be good, a blu ray would be decent.
I'm leary of any pictures of like using the windows desktop, those background images are all altered and oversaturated so the source material is important.

For a long time alot of source material has been getting altered/oversaturated in post processing for darker natured CRT's.

But yeah some pics would be cool. Maybe something like Ironman, apparently the reds pop in his suit. Ultimately it would be nice to see several scenes stressing R, G and B from the same movie.

I bet it will make Matrix look even a greener hue than it ever looked.

Thx

 

unfortunately I don't have Ironman on blu-ray, I could try to find an hd trailer of it.

The first movie I tested was Superbad, the movie itself looked really good (not that much reds in it) but the preview for Walk Hard has a lot of red and it just pops, so much that you see all the little details (in red) that you would have never noticed before. I'll try posting some pics later tonight or tomorrow

 

Thanks for checking.

 

Can you scpecify which point it doesn't prove, then? You are not even arguing...

All I said before and in this whole thread was: the panel received rave reviews in spite of apparent issues with it.

His quotes actually prove my point! In spite of issues with the panel, the reviews are overly enthusiastic.

In my experience only Notebook Jourmal (German reviewer site) do qualitative reviews of the panels but even they don't measure colors. Unfortunately, so far they have only tested the SXPS 13.

At least they provide the black point and contrast both at maximum brightness and at 100cd/m².

 

Which components do you have? Which processor? My CPU runs at 38°C when I elevate the bottom of the laptop and 45°C when I use it on my bed.

But this is not what I am talking about. What I mean is the surface of the laptop doesn't feel cool like it did on my previous laptops. In particular the silver fringe feels hot. This has been discussed in the main thread.

 

I read one or two complaining more about it, but it didn't weight too much in their final appreciation whereas people in the owner thread find this to be annoying (some people actually buying coolers or elevating the back of the computer). Anyway, this is a bit off-topic here.

Regarding the panel, I agree with Dreamer's comment in the thread that was linked here: the panel industry died 2 years ago when manufactuers stopped using ISF panels. The LG panel I had in my XPS 2,5 years ago was fantastic. It had great gamut and contrast. Black levels were amazing. Now every laptop I am testing (3 different panels in the Dell XPS M1730, Alienware M17, Toshiba Qosmio) has incorrect color temperature and poor black levels).

Manufacturers still produce some nice panels but they hardly get used in consumerish products anymore. As Dreamer says it is all about profit.

I don't play the game...Maybe I am stupid to expect good quality products. I am not a big Apple fan, but they pay a lot of attention to procurement. Their price tag is higher but at least you get what you paid for. Dell is more expensive than competition and on the paper they give you what you want:
- RGB LED with great contrast
- Looks that stand out Leather finish
- Slim Notebook
- Ideal for playing Blurays
- Performance

But actually:
- No Dell technician knew how to make 5.1 HDMI sound work (I tried 4 different ones, 2 German speaking and 2 English-Speaking). I had to do some intensive research to get it to work. They actually forwarded me to their paying software hotline...I am wondering whether I should contact them to give them the tip ;-)
- The panel has poor black levels, noone can dispute that
- The laptop runs hotter than similarly speced laptops
- The laptop finish is decent but some parts feel and look cheap (plastic speaker grids, the silver frame looks like plastic)

Again I am not a MacBook fanboy but it is a well rounded product.

 

ok so I took some quick and "ghetto" pictures. I didn't think it was that hard taking a picture of a monitor...

Sorry for the bad quality but you'll still get the point
I'll take some proper pictures during the week when I have time

Picture taken on a Dell E228WFP


Picture taken on SXPS 16 RGBLED 1080p


Quality is really bad but you can in the second image that the reds are almost pinkish kind of like candy red. I also have a Sony Bravia as well as a Samsung HDTV that I can do some tests on. I have a Blu-ray player so I'll take a picture of the same movie on one of the hdtvs and then on the laptop.

 

Here is a test of the SXPS 13:
http://www.notebookcheck.net/Review-Dell-Studio-XPS-13-Notebook.14081.0.html

The screen measurements are similar to what I found on my SXPS 16.

Notebookcheck and Notebookjournal are usually my favourite sources for panel review.

 

No question which I'd rather watch it on. But yeah, quality is pretty hard to get much out of it.
Candy red looks fine to me, everything is more vibrant.

 

so there you go, you got your answer now stop worrying about it and enjoy it once you receive it

I'll post more pictures in a few days, better quality I promise!

 

hehe, thx. I'm gonna wait a little longer till I pull the trigger, my config will be in $2500 range. :O

 

And yet strangely that is a WLED. Another review that makes me want it's bigger brother.

 

Wait until Notebookjournal and Notebookcheck have run their test. Both web sites so far have only been testing the SXPS 13. This will gave you good indications.

550:1 contrast is not bad, but on a premium machine I expect 650:1 to 720:1.

It is the black levels that ruin everything. With better black levels the greyscale could be corrected more easily and the 0% stimulous wouldn't look greenish to the human eye.

 

There you go with your expectations again. hehe
I'm looking forward to the other reviews.

Let me guess you have plasma TV's?

I could absolutely never do Plasma's. 1, glossy screens forget it. 2, The first sign of any burn-in and it's good only for the garbage for me.

 

I have a KRP 500A. I could do with the Sony X4500 LED but the was too bulky.

LED LCD TV's are equal to the best plasmas in terms of color fidelity. My main issue with them is the incorrect (fluctuting) gamma and black level, which means that some material will look 3 dimensional while other material will look flat (local dimming is not perfect yet).

Burn-in doesn't happen on the newer Pionner plasmas. The KRP 500A actually has the best anti-reflection glossy screen on the market. The Samsung LED LCD is much worse in terms of reflection.

That's why I said the Sony is very appealing to me. But it doesn't look good wall mounted as it is way too bulky. The KRP500A in white (limited edition) is a design marvel (only 56 mm thick), which is what pushed me to buy it.

The only gripe I have with plasmas is the light buzzing depending on the sitting position and room configuration.

 

OFF TOPIC: BEWARE:

Have you seen Sony's new OLED TV? It's an 11 inch [ ] TV selling for 2.5k. Here is the site on Sony for it: http://www.sonystyle.com/webapp/wcs...0151&langId=-1&categoryId=8198552921644539854
Here is a review of it: http://reviews.cnet.com/oled/sony-xel-1-oled/4505-13948_7-32815284.html
The only good thing seems to be the new THIN screen [which doesn't serve much of a purpose with a thick base]. Everything else is fair to bad. The idea of a screen as thick as [if I remember correctly] three credit cards is kind of cool. I think the viewing angles on OLED are perfect?

 

Here are the two links missing concerning the correction of the problem with reds and greens with Windows 7.
They come from photographers' forums.

At the first the guy has surely installed Win7 and he has seen a big improvement at the colour representation, he is so happy he mentions it in capitals!
http://photography-on-the.net/forum/showthread.php?t=633562

At the second it is just mentionned that Win7 supports wide gamut but I cannot tell if he has installed Windows7 or he has just seen the announcement.
http://forums.dpreview.com/forums/read.asp?forum=1004&message=30175017

These two posts redirect to one link each. The one is this wikipedia one:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Features_new_to_Windows_7#New_color_depths.2Fgamuts
and the other from softpedia
http://news.softpedia.com/news/Windows-7-High-Color-Support-98741.shtml

I hope all links work now!

As I said before it seems that this is the case with all RGBLED screens for the time. And I will repeat myself, to my understanding the problem is deep and it comes from the fact that Vista cannot properly support them yet. I will install Win7 and let you know

 

SO ... I think I'll wait for Win7 then before buy a SXPS 16 since I work a lot with photos...

 

microsoft announced that whoever has any version of windows vista above home basic will get a free upgrade to windows 7 when it comes out.

So if you want to wait until the end of '09 or the beginning of 2010 then be my guest.

 

Where was this announced?

There's no guarantee this laptop will be officially "supported" for Vista by Dell. May or may not for retail, but in most cases people should be able to run it fine since drivers are so similar.

 

OK, I found it. it's not announced it's tentative.
http://www.techarp.com/showarticle.aspx?artno=609&pgno=0

Right now the dates are purchasing the OS preinstalled between - July 1, 2009 through January 31, 2010

 

ur studio xps screen shot seems to have horizontal lines going through it. i also have that and im giving the laptop back as a result, dont they bother you?

 

hmm I don't know maybe I'm tired but I don't see any horizontal lines... I see some diagonal lines but that happens when you take pictures of an lcd with a shutter speed higher than 1/4. Those lines also appeared on my HDTV and my desktop lcd....

 

I have installed Windows 7 on mine.

this improves only color depth but not color space or white balance.

Color temperature is still the same and colors are still oversaturated.

 

I'm hearing this among alot of RGB LED and new LED users, looks like they are going to have to nerf the color vibrancy.
If all monitors were RGB LED, then source media would be different to accommodate for the bright color capabilities.

I only moved to LCD's just over a year ago (they weren't up to par enough for me). My first impression after my eyes stopped bleeding was LCD's were way too bright and way over saturated, even after tweaked. Compared to my nice CRT they are, but I adjusted to it and now CRT's look wrong. Now if I go back to CRT everything looks pretty pale and dark by comparison.

While it might seem strange at first, just like LCD definitely did, I think people will adjust. I'm more interested in the color range and color gradients. Until source media is made primarily for the new technology they may have to artificially dumb down the screens vibrancy like with a matte finish.

Technically it doesn't make sense that a red can actually be too red unless you are staring into a bright pure red flashlight, I guess that is the problem it's 'too good' and 'too bright', enter in the matte finish. This isn't like they are over saturating a video or picture artificially, this is the actual technology of the screen, it's actually too vivid.

 

Correct colors are not a perception, it's an exact science. They are either correct or not. How you percieve it may vary between individuals, though. Most people prefer more saturated colors even though it's technically incorrect.

 

It should work the other way round. The displays need to be adapted to the standard representation. Calibration involves measuring color patterns displayed by a video player. Those correspond to the theoretical primaries and secondaries at different saturation levels. So if the source material was made artificially less saturated then the calibrated displays would never produce the right color or color saturation.

Since the issue is with the backlighting it can't be solved through the software side.

regarding LCD's vs CRT. LCD TV's are usually oversaturated in green and have a high color temperature (bluish tint).

By contrast CRT's produce a lower color temperature and don't show oversaturated grees.

LCD Panels on a laptop though are usually not oversaturatded. On the contrary, they are undersaturated. But they have a bluish cast because of the high color temperature.