Defective nvidia chips good reason not to buy XPS?

I really want to jump on that XPS deal from the slickdeals link posted earlier, or at least take advantage of one of these coupons that just came out. But if all of Dell's XPS laptops are shipping with defective 8600 chips that are going to overheating or fail in the next few months, it's hard for me to justify spending the money right now.

The deal is so tempting, but does anyone have any idea how widespread or detrimental these chip malfunctions are or will be?

 

Nothing has been proven yet, and if you can find a really stellar deal I would suggest going for it.

 

the article said old nvidia chips, not the more recent 8m sereis. i think they were refering to the 7 series.

 

Go for it. Too great a deal to pass up. Besides, if it DOES break, and it's still under warranty, Dell will probably have to end up having to hand over a newer model, seeing as a refresh should be coming up.

 

I'm not sure if he was talking about the more recently posted article on the The Inquirer, or the one you were speaking of. The Inquirer states that all 8 series gpus are faulty but really has no proof to back that up...

http://www.theinquirer.net/gb/inquirer/news/2008/07/09/nvidia-g84-g86-bad

 

I sure hope that you realize that the person who wrote that is against NVIDIA Corp. with a passion. There is NOTHING wrong with my 8600m GT in my xps m1530, which I recieved 3 weeks ago. Overclocked to 600/1200/900, it reaches only 70 degrees while playing Crysis. The max it ever hit on me was 75 when there were alot of explosions on screen =p.

If you found a good deal, jump on it, because Centrino 2=price hike.

 

100% agree. If you get the EPP deal, you have at least 3 years of warranty + accidental damage. If it breaks or overheats or whatever, then they'll probably have to give you a newer model with equivalent or better performance...

 

Exactly my point.

 

here is an article from engadget today and the 8600 is one of them.

http://www.engadget.com/2008/07/31/figuring-out-which-nvidia-gpus-are-defective-its-a-lot/

What are people doing about this?

 

Thats... very late news. I for one don't really care since mine is operating perfectly and I've already gone through numerous testing to make sure it works fine. Though I do hope that others will cause a large enough ruckus *not on NBR* to cause Dell to offer us some compensation at Nvidia's expense.

 

and nVidia/dell would raise prices(or not offer as much discounts) in the next few years...

nothing positive about hardware failures....

 

Yeah, thats why I'm saying, its great for people to continue pushing for something.. but I'm not really going to be complaining since it really works fine.

 

What kind of test did you run to test the card ?

 

The problem lies in heat cycling, so logically the more stress you put on the card, the quicker it will die out. Hence by playing a graphics intensive game for many many hours and running temperature tests, and everything is fine without any sudden lagging like crazy, artifacting, etc. It should be fine.

Of course nothing is 100% foolproof. Though typically most can be able to get a replacement within 21 days for USA as soon as something odd is discovered like artifacting, random slowdowns, etc. Remember there have been many early adopters of the M1530 and they are still gaming fine without any GPU problems.

 

fast answer

Thanks

 

Your answer is ridiculous, especially because you start with the correct answer, and then describe a process that proves an unrelated one.

Yes, heat cycling is the problem. A proper test would be one that results in the most cycling, not the highest temperatures. This suggests that you should turn your computer on/off 1000x or so to test it. Turn it on, let it warm to running temps (maybe use a stress test to speed this up), then turn it off and allow it to cool to room temp (maybe put it in front of an AC unit to speed this up) repeat 1000x.

The tests you describe result in SUSTAINED high temperatures, not cycling and do not matter since the problem is heat cycling not heat buildup. Let me repeat, you cannot test if your processor is affected by running stress tests.

However, even the Inquirer states that only 5-8% of processors are affected. This is a rather large number, and will result in very high costs for all the companies involved, but probably should not keep someone from purchasing.

 

most products have a 3-5% failure rate so it is not really that high. especially since you think about how many people have the chips.

 

I agree with this, if you didn't say it I would have. I'm definitely holding off on the 1530 until this gets sorted out. I want to hear definitive courses of action in the event my gpu dies, or better yet appropriate die fixes. Until then, sorry Nvidia/Dell but anything 84xx or 86xx series is not getting any of my money.

 

But the article also says the most all of the other nVidia chips are affected as well and for all you know the 9 series may also be problematic since they're from the same maker - the physical chip is not much different and the prior 6XXX and 7XXX series chips are also now said to be a problem - gee if they didn;t fix the problems with the 6 series chips in series 7 and 8 no reason to believe they'll be any better in the 9 series. And whatever "fix" they employ in series 9 may screw up something else.

5-8% of the chips fail - big deal - 20-30% of laptops have a hardware failure in the first year anyway.

So not buying a DELL with an nVidia chip doesn't much matter because whether you buy Acer, Apple, HP, Sony, Toshiba with an nVidia chip you're hooped either way.

Though at least with Apple you'll be phoning someone who speaks English - on the other hand you could buy 2 Dell XPS laptops with equal specs for the same price as the Apple.

 

What is your source for that?

 

even though other laptops may use the same graphics card, with the m1330, its a different story because of the bad cooling design.... thus higher mobo death rates( see the whole 80+ page thread)

 

People complain about stuff all the time. Stuff messes up, it's life. I doubt that "ALL" Nvidia chips are defective, or else they would not be a company anymore. The users who wrote those articles are obviously from ATI and want revenge .

 

Consumer reports - look at the bars - every major laptop maker has a failure rate between 20 -30% including IBM and Apple.

 

Are you sure they are listing "failure rate"? What do they consider "failure rate" to encompass (and when)? Any call to tech support, or actual fried laptops? IF the number were really that high, laptops would be FAR less profitable. It really really hard to believe that number at face value.

 

paper wastage

This is a discussion of the 1530 though not the 1330.

Every forum here from ACER to Toshiba has a big long thread about Laptps failing and people upset. Dell is no different. The 1330 has one issue the Acer has some other issue.

one year Gateway is terrible another year they're pretty good - Acer a couple of years ago was best avoided now they've greatly improved.

Frankly it's probably a way to convince people to buy the high profit margin warranties. if 100% of the customers pay $150 for an extended warranty and 20% need a service they make out very well indeed.

The alternative is to buy a computer that isn't really what you want - or lower specked from B&M stores and they will STILL be just as likely to fail. Instead of a GPU issue many other computers have power problems that fry or screen hinges that fall off or a bad batch of hard drives.

A laptop is a disposable item I paid $50 for a 3 year warranty - if it dies 1 day after the warranty I'm fine with that because the $1500 machine today will be completely destroyed by a $399 machine then.

 

but i'm pointing out that

each machine still has its plus and minuses... if the apple MBP had a better cooling system for its 8600 or a better design[and a secret agreement with nVidia for better quality chips....... well, they had a custom chip from intel for their MBA...], probably less problems than the m1530 with a 8600 chip

 

Your probably right except that apple owners are complaining about the 8600GT and intermittent screens and blank screens just as Dell owners are.

There is just no way to tell and like I say if it is true that this chip is 5-8% failure prone that is still below what Consumer reports claims to be problems across the board. Now Dell's numbers may increase from 22-26% or something overall but so too will every other computer using these chips. Though yes a poor design may increase the problem as you say with the 1330 while having more space in the 1530 may make it less heat prone.

doubleoray

This should not be a big surprise and these companies can afford shipping and repairs and the whole thing. None of these laptops cost more than $50.00 to make. They charge $1500. You can do a lot of repairs under warranty and still make out very well if you're Dell. How many cars in the five year warranty escape without a single problem under warranty. Toyota once said that there was not a single car they made that cost them more than $8,000.00 to build and that included Lexus!! And counted labor!!!

You walk into any store and you see those 1gb flash drives for $9 and and the 16bg one for $129. There is absolutely NO difference from a manufacturing R&D perspective or REASON whatsoever that the price should be any different. Except that the flash drive company and Bestbuy makes an extra $120 profit.

A laptop is exactly the same - a small bit of molded plastic with cheap labour hard drives a plastic fan and some wires - $50 - I am being VERY generous with a number that high. It very likely costs them more to box it and ship it than actually build it. Then hire some $1 a day employees off shore to "help" if and when the thing breaks down.

 

Hahahahah you actually think that these laptops cost no more than $50 to make. Just think it through man. Dell does not make the hard drive or the processor or the GPU. They must purchase them all. And even with the purchasing power of a large company like Dell, they cannot purchase a hard drive, intel processor, and GPU chip all under $50. Also they do not make the screen either. Cmon man, don't be so ignorant to say that these laptops don't cost more than $50. With cars that's a different story. Car manufacturers produce almost all their own parts minus the electronics. And how can you tell us that there is no difference between a 1GB flash drive and a 16GB one. The memory chip inside is obviously vastly different and most times the higher capacities have a larger amount of chips inside to store more. Sure the difference should not be $120 but I assure you there is a difference. Manufacturing a higher capacity chips would require more intricate machines that can create smaller gates and such inside the chip.

 

I would love to live in the fantasy world that Key22 apparently lives in; where laptops only cost $50 to make and profit margins are as high as 2900%. Seriously man, please don't make such outrageous, nonsensical claims with nothing to back you up. Mobile processors alone cost upwards of $100-200 when purchased in bulk.

http://www.anandtech.com/cpuchipsets/intel/showdoc.aspx?i=3356&p=2