Dell XPS 15 9570 benchmarks + temps

thanks for reply. You think doing the simple pad stack from rams to backplate will be enough?

 

Regardless of the proximity of the sensor to the heatsink cooling the ram helps. The 9560's DIMM sensor is in the same location and it doesn't read near as high of temps.

 

I mean it's not a perfect solution but it will help. I would give it a shot.

 

Did you do any physical mods to the machine, like pad or paste?

 

Still considering returning it, and i worry that if i open it up and start messing around, they wont take it back if i decide to not keep it.......

 

You can open it up and still be covered so long as you don't break anything. It's up to you though.

 

The repaste is really an early step as the factory paste is so terrible. Also you need to see if your heatsink is flat.

It's not that difficult or time consuming but you can't have a great view on thermal performance of your unit without addressing these physical defects as a design baseline.

Consider other physical mods afterwards. . .

 

i know warranty will still hold by opening it, but not sure if they will accept returns on an item i have tinkered with.

its the first time i try undervolting, and never repasted or padded before (i have changed components in computers many times)

All i want is a windows laptop that looks discreet (in a world of macbook's), is silent while browsing and using MS office, and can play some games when im alone.

Seemed like this computer was the right choice, but throttling down to 800 mhz after longer gaming sessions is unbearable. Dont need the 4 ghz cpu. 3 ghz would be fantastic, if it could just stay stable.

 

They will take it back provided you don't break anything. They took mine back.

Undervolting is easy.

Padding the memory is even easier.

You could also use throttle stop to limit the speed of the CPU to 3GHz and you may even avoid the DIMM throttling.

 

used throttlestop to undervolt already. just used your values 170 core and 160 cache and they hold up fine. 18C drop on cpu. But no effect on dimm sensor. ill try to work out how to set max speed to 3 ghz, and see if it can keep from throttling.

I already bought all the pads and paste, so i am ready to go, but just want some stability without opening the computer first. That is if stability is an option. Which i hope is an option seeing i payed for a mid to high-end laptop.

Thanks

 

well, you also said that the CPU doesn't reach the 60s on prime95 so the heatsink itself is not that hot.

 

That's this i5 that undervolts like crazy. The i7s that I had in the past didn't run near as cool.

Looking at logs from my i7-7700HQ system with iunlock's mod I do see that DIMM temps did actually hit 63C but it didn't throttle at that.

Not sure why Dell decided to change the threshold on that...

Maybe tonight I'll see how different my DIMM sensor is reading compared to the actual DIMMs themselves. It won't be an apples to apples comparison for the 9570 but it may help.

 

Does BIOS version has something to do with all these Thermal Throttling logics (such the DIMM sensor question)?

 

how crazy is crazy? I'm at -180mV on core and -160mW on cache and I'm kind of too lazy to try to push the envelope on my own.

 

run throttlestop's integrated benchmark 6thread/1024mb. see if you get any errors there.

you are actually at 160/160. The system takes the minimum of the two.

 

It certainly something set by Dell, not Intel. I think 63c is way conservative. I hope they raise it to 70c. Regular RAM is rated to work fine until 85c

 

Thanks for the advice.
are you sure? I was at 180/160 and some errors cropped up, I drop to 160/160 and they're gone.

 

So, I got a 100,510s at 160/160, but I run it again and errors crop up. I continue to reduce the undervolt and stop the test when errors crop up and I got 100,297s at 145/145.

Also, there's no option for 6 threads, I've been running 12.

 

Yes, I am sure. Try to run the test back to back a few times. I get few errors if I push mine below 140mv.
Maybe you had better luck with your chip.

 

145/145 is stable for 5 back to back runs of 1G throttlestop stress test and I'm too lazy to continue running more as it requires manual intervention.

 

Basically you're right. But i only test it 2-3 min. together in order to see how high temps are rising and to figure out the limits of the machine.

 

So i understand a lot of you guys ended up returning the laptop. But what laptop are you guys going to buy instead?

The main reason i got this laptop was because i needed a 13-15" light weight and slim portable laptop with a decent battery life to browse web and use MS office.

My minimum requirements were 8 gb ram, 128 gb ssd and intel U cpu would be fine. I never needed a dedicated gpu. I was considering a zenbook 15", ideapad/thinkpad 14"/15", MS surface 13", macbook 13".

But i got a 33% discount on the XPS, and all the other computers in the same price range come with 4-8 gb ram and 128-256 gb ssd and slower cpu's. The XPS i got was with 16 gb ram and 500 gb ssd, and better CPU. The faster cpu and dedicated gpu is just a bonus that wasnt a requirement for my needs.

When power plan is put to silent mode, it lives up to all my needs, and in this regard only weight and thickness are downers for me.

No matter what "best ultrabooks guide" i read, the laptops on the lists are either far more expensive, or far lower specs. Some are thinner and lighter, but aside from that, they mostly seem to suck compared to this machine at the price range.

If anyone knows a laptop that is at least 8 gb ram, 128 gb ssd, slimmer and lighter and long battery life at same price range (compared to a 33% discounted xps), i would appreciate any recommendation.

I think the xps 9570 is a winner when it comes to my basic demands, but any recommendations are appreciated.

 

If you got a great deal on the 9570 then why not keep it? It is a good system provided you are willing to put in a little work. I only got rid of mine because I wanted to put more money down on a new truck. I ended up going with a cheap 9560 that should work just fine for me.

 

Hey guys - can someone please do a Cinebench run or something similar and let me know what speeds you maintain with and without hyper-threading? I'm looking at upgrading from the 9560 to 9570 to speed up compilation which isn't heavily multi-threaded, I need pure core speed. I'm not fussed on what CPU you test on (8300H/8750H/8950HK).

 

What does your 9560 maintain? I'm pretty certain under the short load of cinebench I was able to maintain 4.1GHz even with hyperthreading enabled.

 

Still awaiting my refund, Dell are clinging onto my £'s as long as they can it seems. Going to hold off a bit for now until something new appears that is a worthy upgrade - hopefully something fresh pops up thats a new design as the 95xx models are getting on a bit long in the tooth now and the cooling isn't what it should be IMHO. 2 x M.2 slots, maybe even a 17" FHD IPS screen and a full sized keyboard with a number pad on the right hand side. Basically an up to date refreshed L702X. Not asking for much am I?

 

3.4GHz, the turbo-boost on the 7th generation CPUs isn't very good in that if there is light load on many cores it wont turbo the single core very far. If I could get 4.1GHz that's a 20%~ improvement in clock speeds it'll save me a lot of time, I was hoping someone was able to maintain something like 4.5GHz~ on the 8950HK with hyper-threading disabled, repasted and repadded.

 

https://www.ultrabookreview.com/19374-intel-core-i5-8300h-benchmarks/

@Brimmy this will give ou an idea of what i5-8300 can do

 

If you want a 17' laptop, why don't you buy a middle-end gaming laptop?
There are gaming laptops with i7 8750h and 1060 around $1100 mark.
It's probably even going to be better cooled because you have more space for the heatsink.

 

Good point. I did look at the new Dell G7, (Alpine White) but its not available in the Uk sadly for some unknown reason. Even the chap on Dell live chat didn't understand why. The Alienware doesn't do it for me and is too much towards full on gaming and too expensive.

I think it may be time to leave Dell and dip my toes in and test the water in another laptop manufacturer

 

I am not returning mine. I paid $1200 (after discounts/rebates) for i7/512ssd/16gb/1080p. I am very happy with it.
All the other premium thin laptops (razor/msi gs65 etc) are *significantly* more expensive and have thermal limitations as well, even out of the box (let's not even talk about the macbookpro).
EDIT: To be fair the other laptops have a 1060. That might be important for a gamer.

You can improve the performance of the XPS15 (and probably of its competitors as well) with the usual tricks.
In particular, for the XPS, I would recommend anyone to do these things in order effectiveness (and complexity):

1) Undervolt CPU (easy)
2) Undervolt GPU (easy)
3) !!!Pad the RAM!!! (easy)
4) Repaste (medium difficulty)
5) Pad/Mod the VRMs (this is really optional)

 

Those mods are what I would agree on and would make a difference, but why should you have to do this with a premium laptop? I was of the same view as you at first and would have kept mine but for the price I paid, then the delay in it getting here and the quirks it had and the changes I had to make for it to run nicely I just couldn't justify keeping it. If this was a car that promised it could tow x amount or reach x speed with 4 passengers in it would you have kept it if you had to mod it to do what it promised? It would be a lemon and returned I expect.

If Dell sell X amount of these and people are happy to do their own mods and keep them then nothings going to change, they'll keep cranking out laptops that won't run as advertised and get away with it.

Not out to argue with anyone here but this isn't going to get any better unless we hold these manufacturers to account for making lousy products and using the 'max power' and 'ultimate experience' advertising while knowing they cant stand up to their claims without users modifying them.

Glad I returned mine, but sad I had to being a long time Dell customer.

 

I agree, but the reality is that there are no manufacturers making a laptop like we want. The XPS is the closest -- but what's worse is that Dell is moving towards apple's model of heat and slow speed in exchange for quieter operation. Things are only going to get worse.

 

You are right, things are only going to get worse if this trend continues. There is definately a market out there for a well designed powerful laptop and a 'non spy on you and try to squeeze as much revenue out of you as possible' operating system

 

@Woodking

I was aware of the potential issue before buying (I read @Eason blog and visited the forum).
Actually, I was expecting much worse. Points 1-3 are really easy, you don't even have to take anything apart. Repaste may make some people uncomfortable. You don't have to do the VRM part.

However, I do agree with you on a certain level.
I think the original sin is Intel's inability to have a working 10nm process (they are 3 years late).
The TDP has become a meaningless number. These 6cores CPUs are hotter than the 4 cores of last year (because the lithography process is the same 14nm and you have 2 more cores).

This does not excuse the manufacturers, Dell and all the others, who are well aware of these matters. And yeah, we shouldn't have to do these mods.
For me, the XPS15 was the cheapest of the bunch (also the one that I liked most) and I need a new laptop.

 

It really depends on the workload. I can tell you that the XPS won't hold 4.5ghz for more than whatever the turbo timer is (45 seconds or so). It will eventually limit power to the CPU to 42w.

 

It gets worse, the smaller lithography patterns are still shrinking the size of the transistors, but the actual power consumption is no longer proportionally going down as well. Around 10nm (Intel 10nm, anyways), the power savings are quite marginal. 7nm (Intel), it's expected there will be nearly no more power savings from node alone. The "free" lunch is over.

 

Are there any real alternatives to the XPS15 that can actually handle a CPU like a 8950HK without being something in the size of an Alienware 17 R5 or such? I mean, the laws of physics are hard to change so enough heat combined with unsufficient cooling can only give one result. What about the slim gaming laptops that are showing up now, like Razer Blade 15 and simlar? Have looked into them for a few years now but all seem to come with one problem or another making them less than optimal for "productivity use".

 

No.
I don't think the blade has the i9 option (and it's the right call !!!). Anyway, the Blade has the TDP of the CPU reduced to 35W (instead of the normal 45), so it will perform worse than a comparable laptop with the i7-8750

 

Razer released a bios update two days ago that was supposed to fix the issue. The GS65, Razer 15, and Aero 15 cool much better than the XPS.

 

I think the VRM heat will still be the cause of throttling here for long-term combined loads and folks have reported readings above 120 degC, so I don't think 5) is just optional. And I don't recall an abundance of unthrottled 9570 Prime95+Furmark load tests success stories with the i7, let alone the i9

 

@_sem_ I have the laptop and I can report on what I see. The DIMM sensor *has to* be taken care of. The VRMs may run hot (at least the ones close ambient1, which are GPU related) but it's not a direct cause of throttling by Dell's power/thermal management.

 

I understand that in the 9570 the DIMM sensor triggers throttling, not the Ambient located between certain VRMs and the small grille. So it indeed has to be taken care of firstly to work around throttling. But it is still the uncooled VRMs generating the heat in that central heat blob one can see with a thermal camera. If you don't take that heat out of there, it will gradually also reach the DIMM sensor. You may not have issues, but thermal freezing or shutdowns under loads are being reported by others, and the hot VRMs are suspect.

 

Thanks for that, I have an idea of what the chips can do, I don't have an idea of what they can do inside the XPS for my specific use-case.

 

Just did a little digging on wikichip and it looks like the 8950Hk can maintain 4.3GHz on 6 cores, 8750H 3.9GHz on 6 cores and 8300H 3.9GHz on 4 cores, these are the regular turbo boost speeds not the "short turbo max" speeds. Is anyone able to try disabling hyper-threading and confirm if they can maintain those speeds on the XPS; I've seen temperature diffs of up to 20c on other laptops with disabling hyper-threading?

 

It's not only the temps that limit CPU speed but the package power. Take a look at my results on page one and that's where a decent load will probably sit with the i7 or i9. You're probably looking at a 3.3-3.5GHz max with really CPU intensive load only, or ~3GHz with a CPU and GPU load. You're not going to sit at 4.3GHz with a moderate to heavy CPU load on the XPS even if you disable hyperthreading.

 

hahaha.

The new XPS has 2 more cores and "higher clocks" but essentially the same cooling solution for three generations. And there are all kinds of timers, power limits, heat limits, etc. that will prevent these max frequencies from sustaining.

One trick I use on an older 6300HQ to enable 2-core max turbo speeds all the time (even with all cores running) is:

1. Disable "c-states" in BIOS screen
2. Use ThrottleStop to enable SpeedShift (with EPP=0)

Worth a try on the 9570 as I get an extra 200MHz. And with c-states disabled, from a practical perspective, the CPU may run some tasks faster.

Downside is that the laptop runs hotter and consumes more energy so for very intensive use this trick might not help so much. . .

This is a scenario that Dell probably forgot to lock out. Might not work on the 9570 because:

1. Dell might have fixed that oversight (doubt it)
2. 9570 has SpeedShift in the BIOS (try disabled in BIOS and using ThrottleStop)

 

I have the feeling that Lisa Gade read this forum.

I don't know if it's just me but I think people are being overly negative about this laptop.
Yeah, it has some issue (that can be alleviated) but overall is fine.

 

Lol it was funny to hear her talk about the sinking of the VRM. She was also very quick to point out that it's not a workstation or a gaming laptop. Overall I was really happy with my 9570 after all of the mods. I wouldn't buy one for gaming or heavy CPU/GPU usage (solid modeling, video editing, etc.) but it was a great all around laptop for someone on the go.

 

Yeah, it was her first review I really disliked.
People just like to bash. The better the device gets the more people criticize it. I guess it's just the way it is today...
But that doesn't mean the laptop is bad. Actually, it's a great laptop.
I don't know what people expect - a desktop power horse in a laptop that's thin and light? And if it doesn't perform like one then pour the tar and spread the feathers over it? And even if it performs good then find whatever flaw you can think of, just because...
People getting spoiled, me thinks.