Dell XPS M1330 - nVidia GeForce 8400M GS - Copper Mod

It is the CPU whining during a low power state, suspected to be something oscillating very quickly.

The issue is in many computers, not just the M1330. It has been confirmed to be an issue with Core 2 Duos.

 

Hey, this post may be a little late. But I did this mod on my insprion 1420.
Temp definiately dropped by A LOT. By the way, the thickness of copper for 1420 should be 1mm instead of 1.4mm. The rest stay the same. Good luck

 

Just got my copper plate from MetalCutoffs.co.uk and did the mod to my Vostro 1510

I used Antec Formula 5 (Microcenter didn't have AS5... ***?)

Anyway,

Idle Temps are about the same:

CPU: 52-56C
GPU: 57-62C

On Load:

CPU: 61c (MAX)
GPU: 65c (MAX)

I was hoping to have idle temps go down a bit, as idling at 52 for CPU and 60 for GPU, I consider on the warmer side, but its perfectly livable.

 

XFD

AF5, sounds like a cheap knockoff.

 

i've done some research and from what i've found its the same stuff, just another name.

Which hey, it works, so I'm satisfied!

 

I dont know if I can do the copper mod myself....can anybody do it for me? im from las vegas....email me at [email protected] thanks

 

Its very easy and there's plenty of step by step, exactly how to guides on doing it, so if you can use a screwdriver, this should be no bother to you.

 

yeah it is quite easy, i just did it myself couple days ago.
pretty good temp, about 51 C idle and 70 C full load with bios A13.
but the fan kicks in all the time.

 

I work for one of the companies that service the Dell warranties and have been following this thread with much interest. I've only been with the company a month and have already replaced several M1330 motherboards for this issue. Believe me, this is not a fun service call to get - the first time took me 3 hours - and we get a flat fee no matter how long it takes us. I certainly would not try to void somebody's warranty if I found this mod or a little thermal grease - we're just supposed to look for signs of abuse if somebody doesn't have the full-blown Complete Care warranty. Seems to me you modders are trying to AVOID a warranty call.

 

Mind if I ask what you guys get paid? Was considering this job myself if it paid right...
(Would normally PM you but your post count is not high enough)

 

30 bucks a call flat fee & call volume is way down in my area right now.

 

Ooof. Way too little for me. Thanks for the info though.

 

Hi.

I bought one vostro 1310 and want know if anyone apply cooper mod in this model?

My gpu stay idle: 59C-65C
Watching movie HD - hit 82C

Sorry by my english.

 

Yes, it can be applied to the Vostro 1310.

 

But, apply cooper sheet more artic silver or only artic silver?

What size of cooper sheet to vostro 1310?

 

Above, pictures inside vostro 1310
_w w w . tornadeiros . com . br/1310/img/internas/cooler.jpg

Can I apply Artic Silver 5? Do I need copper sheet?

Anyone applied in vostro 1310?

 

OK, just few days ago I stumbled into “rthdribl” (w w w.daionet.gr.jp/~masa/rthdribl/) which is a program designed to stress the GPU and that little program made me a true “copper mod” believer.
First I ran it on my M65, which has an idle GPU temp of about 58 degc, I ran it for about 30 minutes and no matter what I did the GPU temp never passed 79 degc.
Now my m1330 which has an idle GPU temp of about 62 degc (not bad), I started “rthdribl” and in about 15 seconds the GPU temp paased 90 degc. At that point I did not dare to leave it running. I repeated this experiment one more time and got the same results.
What I understand from that (correct me if I’m wrong) that the GPU is really on its own and the heat sink is not doing much for it
Now I have decided to do the Copper Modification and I will run this test after I do that and will post the results.

 

I wouldn't bother doing the mod, Gpu = defective, or motherboard or whatever. Any way this is Dell's mess-up let them deal with it!

 

I agree with you, but now I'm stuck with this laptop, and it might not fail now but it will be so stressed out and die the day after the warranty expires. So simply I'm trying to get the best out of a bad situation

 

I figure it - hold out as long as possible, then replace with an Intel board instead of Nvidia once it finally dies. Dell is not really taking much care of it.

 

WHAT? nope I didn't mean keep it, I meant send it back, its evidently damaged or somethings not working right. I'd get on to dell and tell them to get off their asses and fix it. Its their mess up, you shouldn't have to deal with it.

 

Hello,

I apologize if this has been covered already but is this MOD also viable with the m1530 or are they significantly different in terms of hardware configuration?

Thanks for a great forum!

Regards,
SilentGem

 

Great Guide

 

With regards to the question from jkleet

Hi there, could you please tell me where you looked at the motherboard's info regarding its revision?

I simply wrote down the part no. and revision of the motherboard brought by the technicians from the label on the box.

The new motherboard (or perhaps the most recent Bios A13) is more sensitive to GPU overclocking than the original. I've tried using the same Performance 3D settings with RivaTuner which I'd used previously, but when gaming the screen often goes black and I have to restart. I've gone back to the default frequencies and these seem to be more stable. The frame rate gains I noted while overclocking weren't worth the lock-ups and potential long-term damage to the card. But I'm sure a bit of overclocking shouldn't hurt, since the NVidia default frequencies are probably rather conservative. I'll keep experimenting and post my results when I find the time...

Salut

 

Pretty sure the cooling system isn't so bad on the M1530 that it's needed.

 

Well, there is a heating issue with the m1530 as well according to Dell. Users seem to experience the same problems as with m1330.

en.community.dell.com/blogs/direct2dell/archive/2008/07/25/nvidia-gpu-update-for-dell-laptop-owners.aspx?PageIndex=17

 

It's because the M1530 still has a faulty GPU, but the cooling assembly is not problematic like it is on the M1330. Or I could be wrong, just open up your system and check if you have a thermal pad on your GPU. But I have a feeling you won't, no one ever wants to get their hands dirty...

 

I thought the problem was pretty much the same thing on both models, can anyone verify? On the Dell site it says:

I'm not totally certain what this actually means but it lists the m1330 in the same category as m1530.

I will check Hep, once I get the m1530, just ordered today

 

Right... there are two problems with the M1330 and this mod addresses ONE of those two problems. Since the problems are both in the same area, people tend to think they are interchangeable, or the same.
Here are the two issues:
1) The GPU die packaging is poor, over time and a series of heat ups/cool downs, the solder weakens and causes problems, eventually leading to the death of the GPU.
2) Problem 1 is worsened by the fact that the cooling assembly on the M1330 sucks. There is a gap between the GPU and the cooling assembly, bridged only by a lame little thermal pad. Because of this, GPU temps are commonly 90-110 degrees Celsius under load!
If you go back and look at when I originally brainstormed the ideas for this mod, it was before the nVidia faulty GPU ordeal had even come to light.

For the 100th time in this topic and the other, I will say, THIS MOD IS NOT INTENDED TO FIX THE FAULTY NVIDIA GPU. IT ONLY FIXES THE COOLING ASSEMBLY.

So....

Does the M1530 have a faulty GPU? Yes. Is it the same issue as the M1330? Yes.
Do they both have the gap in the cooling? IIRC, no, and you're not the first to investigate this problem in the M1530 either.

So, again, a summary for the lazy:
M1330 - Faulty GPU, bad cooling
M1530 - Faulty GPU
This mod - Cooling fix, NOT GPU fix.

 

Well thank you very much Hep for the clarification. I did not know this, I assumed from the gecko of reading this thread that it was related to the same thing Maybe it says so in the first post but I can't remember seeing it. Should possibly be included.

Thanks Hep for the great responce your time and effort is appreciated!

 

No problem. Sorry if that sounded a bit rude, but this is a common misconception and I feel the need to clear it up for people.

 

Probably most of you already know, but just wanted to post that I ordered my copper sheet from the UK store (metalcutoffs) last Friday and it arrived today! (Thursday). Pretty fast considering it's coming from the UK to Florida, and that there was a weekend in the middle.

Just need to buy the Artic Silver at Radioshack, and will probably do the copper mod sometime this weekend. I've also bought the Zalman NC1000 cooler. HOPEFULLY all this will extend the life of my M1330. I just got a third mobo and my laptop is already getting hot and the fan going wild.

 

Thanks for the guide. Good Mod - did it on my m1330 rev 1 board - idles now 55-60, load (running wow) 70-74, measured using HW monitor with A12 bios. I used a 1 mm copper shim with arctic Céramique (what I had handy).

I'm curious about the actual thickness of the shim from metalcutoffs - they say 1.5mm and 16 gauge, however, 16 gauge is actually 1.3 mm?? Can anyone measure theirs?

I saw that someone had used a silver shim - was thinking about doing this, but would need to buy a larger peice than I need - anyone else interested in a 16 gauge (1.3mm) ~14x14mm piece of sterling silver for about ~$10 delivered in US?

David

 

You're not going to get a benefit from using another metal. The cooling is only as good as the weakest point, which is aluminum in this case.

 

I've got good news & bad news:

The good news is that my 1330 has enjoyed several months of 25C less at full load thanks to the Cu mod, without incident

The bad news is that now I get to swap out the Cu shim and put back the dreaded thermal pad - in preparation for a visit from the RepGuy.

Yeah, it's time for a second Mobo, but this time it's the internal Power circuit and not GPU... So it will go along these lines:

Sunday night, remove Cu shim, clean off thermal paste, stick* the pad back on.

*Er... with spit, maybe? I don't want to clog the HSF's pores with glue or otherwise. Any suggestions? Worst case I'll use a very small drop of thermal paste which may help to hold the pad in place just long enough... ;p

Monday morning, let RepGuy swap out the mobo + charger board. Run through my replacement-mobo-checklist.

Monday evening, run remaining tests, allow the 1330 to run overnight with some "mild" cpu & memory benchmark test loop. Maybe even some 3DMark runs just to watch the GPU temps hit the 104C throttle point a few times...

Tuesday evening, assuming Monday went well, swap the Cu shim back in, enjoy a cool 75-78C GPU @Full load

Ah, what joy... not. I'd rather be spending my time playing Far Cry 2 or Dead space...

 

" The cooling is only as good as the weakest point, which is aluminum in this case." I don't think that statement is quite right. I believe heat flow is proportional to temperature difference and contact area (see wikipedia.org/wiki/Heat_equation).

The shim is between the GPU and the aluminum base of the heat pipe assembly. If I can make the shim hotter, the heat flux transferred thru the aluminum base to the heat pipe will be greater. Using a material with a higher thermal conductivity should increase the temperature on interface between the shim and the aluminum base, which will increase the total heat transfer. In addition, if I can make the shim larger, the contact area between the shim and the aluminum base will be larger which will also increase my heat flow.

It should be possible to calculate the temperature reduction using silver vs copper for the shim.

Please correct me if my thinking is wrong as it has been a long time since I took thermodynamics.

In my case, I'm wondering if my shim is too thin, which doesn't allow enough pressure on the shim to compress the thermal grease.

edited to correct higher/lower thermal conductivity error

 

Wrong. Sorry to sound rude but it is. The "shim" as you so called it, is there purely as a heat conduction medium between the cores and the heatpipe.

You were right in one regard heat flow is proportional to temperature difference (thats why heatpipe technology is so much more effective and efficient than water cooling etc.)

You don't want the shim to get hot, if it gets hot, cpu/gpu stops transferring heat, more heat is dissipated inside the laptop case as opposed to being expelled by the heatsink and fan.

Hence you want a medium like copper with a relatively high conduction coefficient to transport the heat away from the processors as fast as possible, This (as Hep pointed out) is limited by the shoddy heatpipe assembly, or more to the point the use of aluminium as an interface with the heatpipe.

Here the heat gets bottled up on the processor side of the processor/heatpipe interface as Aluminium (compared to copper) is a poor conductor of heat. (The only reason Aluminium is used here is because Dell cut corners in the manufacturing)

 

Hi,

Well, maybe my analogy was wrong, but unless I completely lost my engineering sense (will need to get a refund on my degree) and don't understand the math at all, I believe that increasing the thermal conductivity of any component in a heat conduction chain will lower the temperature of the source. The gpu-thermal grease - shim - thermal grease - al base - heat pipe - radiator - air is just the thermal path. If you increase the the thermal conductivity of anything in the chain, the entire heat conduction of the chain goes up.

Maybe a better thought example would be to assume that the Al base is constant temperature below that of the gpu. A higher thermal conductivity shim would present a lower temp to the gpu, so more heat would be transferred out, resulting in a lower temperature gpu.

Sorry about that, but in previous post I confused higher and lower thermal conductivity - higher thermal conductivity means it conducts heat better.

Actually the reason the Cu shim lowers the Gpu temperature is that it increases the thermal conductivity better than the thermal pad. Using a higher thermal conductivity shim will just decrease the temperature more.

David

 

Right, which is what I just said.

 

So, if you agree with that I said, than using silver instead of copper for a shim will give me a lower temperature, which is different than what Hep said. I'll see if I can calculate the difference when I get home from work, now that I am interested. It may be simpler than I think.

 

No I agree with some bits of what you said, I hope you don't mind me saying but your ideas come across a bit fragmented.

In the earlier (Hep commented) post it appeared you were going to use something worse than copper, something like aluminium or steel for the shim. That would be a much worse case scenarior (lower conduction value), as it appears you merely mixed your words and are in fact thinking of using a higher conduction value metal like silver, Yes, You would get a much better level of cooling.

Though I think using silver is a bit unrealistic, given the cost of buying a small sheet of it.
(I assume it would be expensive, in the region of 100 - 150 dollars at least, though I don't trade in silver, so I could easily be wrong)

I think you would be much better off modifying the heatpipe assembly, regardless of how good a quality the shim is, its still the aluminium interface of the heatpipe that will hold you back. Replacing that with copper and not using silver at all would probably yield you much better results, and save your wallet from a wallop.

 

In fact the actual metal price for such small piece is few cents if it is copper and less than a dollar for the silver (90 cents at the current market price)

 

Well, Okay at stock prices, but when you factor in the cost of ordering it from someone and shipping it, then its not quite as cheap.

Personnally I'd still try to upgrade the heatpipe assembly first, also why has nobody thought of just gently bending the heat pipe a small bit (with the help of a gas torch) its long and slender enough for there to be enough flex to mould it - get rid of the extra copper plate. (granted I'd try it on a spare one first )

 

Replacing the whole assembly with copper or silver would be good, but the thermal conductivity differences between copper and silver on such a small area will not improve your cooling at all. Mexican Snake used silver and got no better results than I did with aluminum or copper.

WHERE IS YOUR SCIENCE NOW?

 

Where I left it, I suppose? What??

Anyway....

Hmm.. I don't know whether there are various assemblies for the 1330, I know there are a lot of different ones for the 1530, some with copper throughout, some with alluminium, some with combinations.

You could try to find a copper heatpipe assembly revision, That would probably be the best option, then use a copper shim.

Edit: oh sorry that should read -
WHERE I LEFT IT, I SUPPOSE? WHAT??

yep, I definitely feel better now.

 

That is absolutely correct, if you do the math you will find that with the silver you will not gain more than 1% over the aluminum. and sure the best thing is to eliminate the gap if you can but that would be very hard with the new heatsink as it has wide aluminum thing around the copper pipe (looks like they are trying to dissipate as much heat as possible locally)

 

no, no, its called being cheap. - Dell cutting corners again.

 

No, no, you need to read again. We're talking about materials used for the shim, not materials for the heatpipe. It's inarguable that if the whole cooling assembly were copper that would be best.

 

Well I wasn't actually talking about that, I suppose I should have been more specific about what I was referring to i.e last line of his post "it has wide aluminum thing around the copper pipe (looks like they are trying to dissipate as much heat as possible locally)" Thats what I was referring to, not the shim, sorry

 

Ah, my bad. Perhaps I just need to read more