Dell XPS M1330 - nVidia GeForce 8400M GS - Copper Mod

Parts just arrived for my copper mod. Unfortunately I'm also about 2 months into a new mobo running at high temps. I'm gonna wait this failure out, then upgrade when the new one is installed.

 

Here I sit with a brand new MOBO (my 3rd including original) and am now realizing this issue is not just me. I don't game - but do watch a few videos here and there, and it still happens after several months.

I got the copper piece ordered and will be doing this simple mod soon because right now Idle GPU temp is 70C

I will definitely be adding a few years to my 1yr warranty in a couple of months. I really can't complain about DELL's customer service, they have been great. I had to send the box into DELL Repair - it was sent on Tues, and back in my hands Thursday (minus a GB of RAM which didn't make me too happy, but they shipped the extra chip and I received it Friday).

Thanks to the people figured this out - glad we got a few good engineers looking out for us!

 

Just wondering if anyone has a spare piece of copper. Being a broke college student, just testing my luck before I dish out $12 for the copper off ebay.

 

Really?
You can afford a 1K laptop, but the $12 is really going to hurt ya?

REALLY?

 

Two words: Student Loan














(PM me your address and I'll send you a piece of copper)

 

After reading all the reviews, I've become very interested in doing the copper mod for my m1330. However, where would I find the metal without having to pay $12 for some oversea company to ship me a penny size copper

Or does anyone here have a spare that I can purchase from (~$5 shipped)?

Thanks in advance

 

i believe you just answered your own question, use a penny...lol

you can use fins out of an old copper / alum heatsink.

another great way to further increase cooling is placing ramsinks along the heatpipe using artic silver 5 thermal adhesive, i have dropped my temps quite abit more esp for the chipset / video.

adding ram sinks is fairly easy but requires cutting and sanding the ramsinks to be moulded to certin areas.

anyways, i have to get back to what i was doing...

good luck

 

You can't use a penny... it's not smooth at all, so don't listen to that.

Fins from an old heatsink will work, I used that in my very first revision of the mod. Just make sure they are even thickness, not wedged slightly.

Ramsinks on the heatpipe will do little to help temperatures, as the bottleneck is the fan pulling heat from the cooling assembly. They will lower your initial temperatures and might impact your idle temps a bit, but won't help your load really. You also risk them falling off and causing a short circuit.

 

first off,the heatsinks wont fall off with the adhesive, and they will help load temps.

it dissipates heat before it reaches the heatsink to be exchanged. spreading out the heat will put a less load on the heatpipe to dissipate heat.

the macbook pro uses this method and it works fantastic. the heat is pushed into larger heatsinks than into the casing of the notebook.

the penny of course wouldent work, but if you sanded it down it would.

 

believe me, a penny won't work. I tried sanding one down for my start and it was like impossible to get it smooth enough. And don't forget, you have to use a pre-1984(is that the right year?) penny so it's all copper

Now, as for the ramsinks, sorry, I read AS5 not AS Adhesive. You're right about them sticking in place, shouldn't be a problem.

but for how much they help? THEY WON'T. See, the macbook pro wicks the heat away from the assembly into the chassis. Which gives a huge surface area for heat to dissipate from. Since the HSF is closed up in a little compartment, the heat all just lingers in there (which is why I have plans on replacing my door with more like what the MBP does, and making the whole door an addition to the cooling assembly, and giving it the surface area to dissipate heat. If you think adding things on to the assembly without them touching anything but the air inside of that compartment will help, you don't understand thermodynamics.

 

hey

the whole point of a heatsink is to dissipate heat, nothing more. larger heatsink = more heat dissipated.

by what you just said, i shouldent need a north bridge heatsink in my desktop. its only touching air inside. aside from having a larger air compartment and more fans.

heatsinks are cooled by airflow, the compartment in the 1330 has air flow. its minimal but enough to cool those heatsinks.

taller and larger area base heatsinks need less airflow to cool, right ? if not correct me.

no matter what arguement you come up with the fact is, i added them, they reduced my temps both idle and underload.

enough said.

 

Wow, you clearly don't understand then. Your desktop has more airspace and more fans moving the hot air out and new air in. Adding a larger heatsink to the northbridge would allow more surface area for heat to move off the sink, and be removed by the fans. But there would be a point where the air was not moved fast enough by the fans and the air would stagnate, the whole heatsink would heat up to the same temperature, and it would make no difference. the larger compartment and more fans make a huge difference. Your ramsink mod would only be effective if you cranked up the M1330 fan or put some way of getting extra air moving. Currently, the bottleneck is NOT THE SIZE OF THE COOLING ASSEMBLY, BUT THE AIR BEING MOVED AWAY.


Consider this: Components put out heat. That heat gets wicked from the component into a block of metal. This transfer of heat causes the temperature of the component to drop in temperature as joules are removed from it and moved to the metal. The metal is then cooled as air removes that heat from the metal. The component -> metal transfer rate is much higher than the metal -> air rate, or the component -> air rate for that matter, which is why we use intermittent heatsinks. These increase the surface area for air to flow across, and to cause cooling. The more surface area, the better. That is why heatsinks have fins, to get the most surface area in the smallest amount of space. But what happens when that air reaches the same temperature as the heatsink? Will any joules be removed? The answer is of course not. So unless that fan can keep the air in the CPU/GPU/Chipset/Memory compartment significantly lower than the temperature of the cooling assembly on a load (which I know for a fact that it can't, which is why I said you might notice a difference on idle but definitely not on load), then all you are doing is replacing 60 degree air with 60 degree metal. And I don't know if you realize this, but those are both the same temperature. The compartment on the M1330 is fairly closed and does not really have airflow; the air stagnates at a temperature and that's it. The fan can't move it out fast enough to keep it cool.

only in an environment where there is already significant airflow. If you took a computer with ZERO fans, and doubled the size of the heatsink, the temperature would only be lower until the air heated up.



God, I seriously hope you understand now, otherwise you're a lost cause and someone else is going to have to back me up.

 

maybe you should re-read my post.


preferably the end part of it.

 

Or maybe the ambient air temps changed or maybe the thermal paste cured? I'm telling you scientifically why you're wrong, something else could have caused it. Maybe you should re-read my post.

 

You're understanding of thermodynamics is inherently flawed. Yes, in a desktop there is considerably more airflow than in this laptop; this is not to say that the laptop has no airflow. Since there is airflow, even if it is not ideal, there will be cooling. The air surrounding the heat sink will never reach the same temperature as the heat sink - thus, heat will always be transferred from the sink to the surrounding air. Maybe you should pick up a text book and re-read the 2nd law of thermodynamics before you start calling people lost causes.

 

You're right, not the same, but close enough that this would have a very minor effect on temperatures. You said it dropped your temps a lot.

 

You didn't happen to take pictures during your 1420 upgrade, did you? If not, do you have any pointers/caveats to watch out for? Do you need to follow all steps in the Dell guide for the "System Board", or are there steps you don't have to do to get to just the GPU?

Also, maybe I missed it, but where would one go about getting the proper copper sheet needed to do this upgrade? Unfortunately, the wikipedia link provided doesn't really help.

Edit: Found a source at the bottom of the guide.

 

oryan: I didn't take pics, but here are a few things I noticed:
1) Follow Dell's guide to removing your system board as closely as possible. Things get a little vague at the point of actual board removal, so work slowly and carefully, being very cautious for things on the edge of the board that can get hooked on the chassis.
2) Remove the GPU heatsink carefully and be sure to keep the ram pads intact.
3) There are three or four different types of screws (by diameter and length), and the system board is actually labelled with the type to use in each hole. As long as you keep track of which screw corresponds to what labelling, replacing them should be easy.
4) If you don't have the bluetooth module, you'll have an extra cable during reassembly that doesn't plug into anything -- this scared the crap out of me when I did it.
5) During reassembly the WiFi switch was offset from where it was supposed to be, causing me to re-remove the system board. Check this carefully as you replace the board and again before you screw it in, and AGAIN after you replace the palmrest. That thing isn't fully secure until the palmrest is screwed in.

I used the same copper as with the M1330, which worked very well. Thanks to the Dell guide disassembly wasn't a complete nightmare, just tedious.

Good luck!

 

I will admit, I was skeptical about this doing much for me since I am just a programmer not doing any gaming - but now you can count me in as another VERY satisfied M1330 user with this mod.

I was averaging idol temp @ 69C BC (before copper )

now with the mod, so far I am seeing it around 57C AC...

Thanks a million to the OP -

 

hi guys

im running i8kgui on my xps 1330

i noticed my gpu only gets to 49C under load without shim mod,

but the chipset climbs to 86C

interesting, i will post some pics.

josh

 

i8kgui isnt perfect for temp measurements, try HWMonitor

 

i8kfan to get good GPU temp:

http://forum.notebookreview.com/showthread.php?t=185107

after doign the above, then offset the GPU temp by adding 10 degrees..
now my i8kfan = everest = HWMonitor

 

So I did this mod a few days ago. What prompted me to do this it that I experienced the typical failure that people have been seeing. Namely, I left the computer running for a bit and the screen loked up with garbage on it. After a hard shutdown and boot I got the black with vertical lines screen. I shutdown again and let it sit for a bit then botted back up. The computer has been doing fine since but I was concerned. I searched and found this article. I was able to get the mod done and my GPU seems to be running much cooler now (~57to 58 degrees C at idle).

I am rather concerned though. When I run the 3DMark06 tests my computer is barely able to get 10 fps on the first test. I can't get better than 1 or 2 fps (with 0 being more often) on the lest tests. I am worried that my GPU is on its last legs and will be dieing rather soon. My warranty runs out on Sept 5th. I emailed Dell support but they are asking me to do the standard BS troubleshooting. I haven't experienced the failure since the initial episode yet.

My question is, could my GPU be damaged from the initial failure? Is there any way to confirm that the GPU is functioning properly? Should I be doing better on the 3DMark tests?

Here are my system specs:

M1330, T7200, 4GB RAM, 8400M GS, 160GB 7200 rpm HD, LED, FP

Thanks in advance.

 

10fps on 3dmark 1st test is normal for a 8400m GS

Did you expect to get like 30fps on those super gpu intensive scenes?

Your GPU is slowly dying, its already shown the syptom. The symptoms will gradually appear more and more, till it eventually craps out. It will probably still take a while, half a year or more.

 

I honestly did not know what is normal for this computer. I am really not a gamer so I didn't know what to expect. I was worried that this was substandard and a sign that the GPU is going.

I am hopeful that the mod will help slow the demise of the GPU. I do not know that it is worth it to extend my service contract. They want something like $170 for an extra year. Combine that with the uphill battle required to get them to replace the failed unit and I would much rather just wait it out and replace the MB when it does fail. Maybe they will admit the problem and come out with a replacement based on a more reliable GPU sometime in the future (one can hope anyways).

Thanks for the input though.

 

A replacement MB will cost you around $300-400 so you might wanna rethink that.

Hopefully they have implemented a recall/enhanced warranty service for the affected models before your warranty expires.

 

I replaced my motherboard for under 150 shipped...

 

Yeah, a fix is not likely before my current contract expires. My warrenty is up on Sept 5th. I did go onto Dell site and found out that MB costs quite a bit.

Hep!, how did you get a new MB for $150 shipped?

This is just so frustrating. It is like having a ticking time bomb that you have no idea when it will blow. Even a replacement MB doesn't fix the underlieing problem that the GPU is a POS and will fail anyways.

Thanks for the help guys.

 

Ebay, ah... 'tis magical.

A quick search showed me this. You can do better though, I got mine for 99.95 + 49.95 shipping. (or something coming out to just under 150)

http://cgi.ebay.com/New-Dell-XPS-M1330-nVidia-Motherboard-CX062-D057F_W0QQitemZ360077354920QQcmdZViewItem?hash=item360077354920&_trkparms=72%3A570|39%3A1|66%3A2|65%3A12&_trksid=p3286.c0.m14.l1318


This one might not be the nVidia board, send the seller a message:

http://cgi.ebay.com/Dell-XPS-M1330-Motherboard_W0QQitemZ110277311582QQcmdZViewItem?hash=item110277311582&_trkparms=72%3A570|39%3A1|66%3A2|65%3A12&_trksid=p3286.c0.m14.l1318


Here's another board, most of them don't get many bids:

http://cgi.ebay.com/dell-xps-M1330-motherboard_W0QQitemZ250280202944QQcmdZViewItem?hash=item250280202944&_trkparms=72%3A570|39%3A1|66%3A2|65%3A12&_trksid=p3286.c0.m14.l1318

Just shop around like I did and you can get it for under 150 as well

 

If you look closely at the second one you list you can see the GPU Die is missing on the board so that is most likely the Intel unit.

Either way, thanks for the links. I may order one of these just to keep on hand for when mine decides to crap out. This is just stupid though. I am starting to regret going with Dell over just building a new desktop.

 

jwzimm, it sounds to me like your motherboard is already dying - which to me is grounds to get it replaced. Hop in a Dell chat and explain your problem, they will send out a rep to replace your board in just a few days, the XPS support is pretty awesome.


also, if you do go the ebay route, you might want to consider buying the X3100 board (which you're right, the second link is the X3100). I only got the 8400M GS so I could do some gaming, which you said you don't do.

 

I think that if you had 8400M GS mobo you cannot switch to X3100 mobo unless you change the chassis too.

 

Do you think it would be that simple? I have only had the one failure and have already done the copper mod. I emailed their support but they are giving me the standard troubleshooting steps. I really do not feel like fighting with them to get a new MB only to have them send out some gorilla to tear apart my computer and put it together again (incorrectly).

I think Lao is right though, the coolig assembly looks to be custom for the Nvidia GPU config and won't work on the X3100 setup.

I will hop on chat and see what they say but I am not sure if they will bite.

 

Since your warranty ends soon they will surely try to avoid replacement, but just keep pushing it. And I don't know if that is true about needing a seperate chassis, but it sounds like Lao knows what he is talking about. Do consider though that you can get an entire M1330 base (motherboard and base chassis) for only a little bit more on ebay! Might want to consider it.

 

Well I had a chat session and the ticket is still open. The guy said that since I have reported to the failure before my warranty is up I will still be covered if the system fails after it is expired. I ran the system diagnostics and everything checked out okay so it doesn't look like anything is damaged.

We shall see...

 

Ah, that's really awesome that it's still covered. I might report a dying GPU on my Inspiron 1520 right before the warranty expires, so if it ever does fail [RATHER, WHEN IT DOES FAIL], I can get a replacement for free.

 

Yeah, I just hope it is true. I have the chat session in an email so there is evidence of the promise.

 

Huge apologies if this has been posted, but does anyone know of a UK-based source to purchase a suitable copper sheet?

 

http://www.metaloffcuts.co.uk/

Just use the enquiry form to request the copper cut to exact specifications (as per the first post of this thread.)

 

Thanks for the tutorial.

I just ordered my copper from metaloffcuts via ebay.

But here's a question. Couldn't we do this mod with a pre 1982 copper penny, it has a slightly bigger diameter but it fits the gpu fully and perfectly. Just clean the penny with an eraser, apply artic silver thermal grease on both side and substitute the thermal pad that is already in the heatsink? Let me know.

Thanks.

 

I suspect a penny + AS5 would be about as good as the current thermal pad, if not worse.

If you look back through this topic, and through my original topic, you will see that this is not the first time someone has mentioned a penny. I even toyed with the idea in my original design. The problem is the shim needs to be very very smooth, and it's nearly impossible to get a penny smooth (and even) enough. It's better to just spend 10 dollars on a penny's worth of copper that is already smooth than go through the hassle (and believe me, I went through 4 or 5 pennies before giving up).

 

I see. Thank you for your feedback.

 

Hi, I know this is for a M1330 etc but is the 1.5mm thickness specific to only this model or would it be ok to use on a M1210 too?

If not, does anyone know the ideal thickness for this model - Thanks

 

The problem with using a penny is that you want a good flat surface to mate to on both sides. The penny has reliefs in it that do not allow complete contact. The thermal conductivity of the Arctic Siliver is not sufficient enough to fill in the gaps where the penny does not make contact.

Also, some of the thermal assemblies have little raised "L's" that would prevent a larger then 14mm objest from fully seating on the face.

The idea here is for complete and solid contact with two completely flat faces. The thermal paste is only used to fill in the microscopic gaps in the mating surfaces.

Edit: Too slow on the reply

 

I believe if the thermal pad on the m1210 is the same size as the m1330 (depth 1.5mm) and the gpu is the same size (14mmx14mm), then I see no reason why it will not fit it.

 

Does the M1210 have thermal issues? I was under the impression it had either an Intel GMA 950 or an nVidia go 7400, neither of which have the severe thermal issue that plagues the 8400M GS.

 

Hi everyone! Thanks for a very useful post.
I have a question for you all. Is it true that the metalcutoffs from eBay is so far the only reliable source that you all know about? I was able to find a sheet of copper from a local hobby store but it is only 0.025 inch thick - which is half of what is needed here.

So here's what I am thinking and this is where I need you all to let me know if this is a good idea or not. I was thinking about cutting two pieces and stacking them both on top of each other. I could do one or both of these additional steps as well.
1. I could put thin layer of AS5 between the layers. AND/OR
2. I could put a small drop of solder on all four corners so the two pieces wouldn't slide off at all.

What do you guys suggest?

On a side note, I am using HWMonitor but for some reason it doesn't show GPU temps. Do you know why that would be?

Thanks again for the info.

 

^^ I did the exact same thing you did (two pieces at half thickness with thermal compound between). I was unable to source copper of the proper thickness locally. I have been seeing GPU temperatures around 55 to 59 degrees C at idle.

I have since found a copper grounding strap that is 16 gauge. I haven't swapped out the two piece unit yet though. One issue is that the 16 gauge copper has a thickness of 1.2mm not 1.5mm.

For now, it is working great and I am still debating swapping it out.

 

My testing of this mod to see if this was even worthwhile consisted of stacking 4 then 5 copper fins cut off an old water cooling radiator, with AS5 in between. It should not be a problem as long as you are careful to apply the AS5 evenly and in the right quantity. Solder is a good idea for holding it in place, but Dell might not be too happy with it if you ever need to get it repaired (assuming you're under warranty). If you are under warranty, best keep it reversible

 

I was thinking about soldering the piece of copper to the heatsink assembly for better thermal contact but that would obviously void my warranty. What I wanted to know was if I were to do such a thing, is there an easy way to completely remove the solder if I needed to for warranty purposes?