Dell XPS M1730 Owner's Lounge, *Part 3*

Well Kade, if ever you`ll be in the selling business, I`m first to hear about it

 

Alright well I'll be getting a m17x then. Probably just going to go with something simple like a 260m SLI though.

 

Have 1 260 in my system ATM and it runs what two 8800's in SLI did BETTER.

 

Yup its really so much more powerful!

 

You guys don't seriously believe that though, right? I mean, it's hearsay that neglects a series of other factors.

Hikkoo on the last page *beat* my 280m SLi with his 9800m GTX SLi in Resident Evil 5 DX10. And my own 8800s came very close to doing the same under that test. What does that say? 260/280m are nice; they offer at best a roughly 10-20% increase over the older 9800/8800m models. They also have more VRAM than the 8800, which can really boost performance up to 50% in certain scenarios. But one of them being twice an 8800m SLi? We're stretching the very limits of reality now, aren't we?

 

You got it, dude. Although Don did ask for the CPU, but I think he's lost interest in the idea since he isn't all that into his M17x anylonger.

 

I have the X9000 CPU and 8800m Dual GTX Sli but I have not installed them yet. I want to cover all the bases before hand if possible. Will I need a cooling pad or another alternative cooling option for my m1730? I am getting confused the more I read as there are varied opinions.

 

I can't comment much on how to install the cards and CPU, since you'll find many tutorials to that effects.

However, when you do set up of the laptop for use, make sure the back/rear of the laptop is raised by at least an inch. This is important and good for the machine as it'll give your cards good breathing room and prevent it from hitting those peak temperatures.

Also, on a bi-weekly basis, blow compressed air through the ducts to clean out any dust that might be stuck inside the vents because that too can clog up your system and bring about unwanted rise in termperature.

Anotehr side note: It will help if you run your X9000 at 3.2 GHz and beyond, because this causes the BIOS to force all system fans to run at full blast, which really does keep the system nice and cool.

 

It doesn't really matter how powerful the goddamn 8800's or 9800's are for the m1730 if the life expectancy for the card is around 18 months. Everyone is telling me this including actual resellers of the cards. Putting up 600-700 cash on a new card which you know will get toasted in 18 months sounds absolutely horrid, I don't even care how powerful the cards are....

 

@Kade: Thanks for the advice. I am familiar with the install of both.
@darkloki: Why do you sound so bitter? If you read posting on the Dell forums you will find out that owners of the m1730 that were shipped with the 8700 are getting free upgrades to the 8800. That way you do not have to spend a penny.

 

Well, I know you're buying outside of warranty so your point is valid.

I was merely stating what needs to be stated. A 280/260 even in SLi is not twice or thrice as powerful as an SLi'd 8800m GTX, and certainly not a dual 9800m GTX. But yeah. . . what's the point of all this if the cards are going to die? That's a valid, but separate matter.

I'd take a quality 9800m GTS over all the rest if someone could insure me that it wouldn't die in the coming years.

I believe the M17x cards have this benefit. They don't toast. The cards are cool by default, thanks to the die-shrink. Plus, the overall system is cooler, so again, that helps the cause. The temps never exceed the 70 degree mark, which is a great way to keep the flaws of the G92 in check and prevent damage from thermal cycling.

 

@Kade: One more thing-- Following your procedures have you found the need for an alternative cooling method such as a cooling pad are not necessary? I have read so many postings advising on cooling pads. Do you think it is a pro or a con to use one and which one is actually functional? It sounds like common sense to allow more breathing space below the laptop and blowing air in the vents

 

I had an 8800, that's what died and Dell has moved on, especially those like myself who are out of a warranty. I'm bitter because of the accepted idea or notion that these cards only last 18 months. How is that acceptable?

 

I actually found additional coolers to be unhelpful. Your fans move at one speed, and then there is air-flow from the bottom at a differnt point with a different speed. I believe in relying primarily on the system fans and giving them a good inch of breathing space to function properly without smothering the system.

You want air going through the vents - your system fans will do that just fine. Use your X9000 at 3.2 GHz and above, and I'll guarantee you that your fans will constantly do a great job. I see no point in putting in another flow of air into that equation that might interfere with your own system fans. I was using a similar setup with an overclocked x9000 and full-blast system fans a few months back, and my peak GPU temperatures never exceeded the 73c degree mark.

 

after 18 months tech is either end of life or completely antiquated anyways. That is not to say that they should have a longer life than 18 months.Some parts are engineered to fail after a certain amount of time to force replacement. If it lasted forever they wouldn't make as much money.

 

Sunnah, kades on the money and ile add more

Ive never used a cooler.
This is what i do:
1.run X9000 @ 3.2ghz (this keeps fans continously on @ 100% speed, but is kinda loud, took me couple months
to get use to fan noise. only run @ 3.4 for impressive benchys

2a. raise rear about 20mm for room temps up to 20 celsius(i use rubber erasers directly under those rubber feet manufactured on xps, just be careful not to block vents under xps)

2b. raise rear about 20mm + raise front about 10mm for room temps above 20C
RULE OF THUMB: is make sure benchtop surface directly under rear an front of xps never heats up because if it does warm or hot air will rise up underneath xps an heat up xps even more!

NOTE: NEVER! i repeat NEVER! place xps tight into a corner, espically at rear of xps Because the hot air blowing out of rig at rear is going to heat up that rear wall or object and then hotter air will bouncce back at ya xps, thats a big No! No!
RULE of THumb: leave enough space at rear of xps so that any objects directly behind xps dont heat up.
GOODLUCK setting Beast up.

SIDE PROJECT:been thinking to saw a square hole out of desktop about size of rig, put in stainless steel refrigrated grills, then rig up a slim line quite fan unit under grill that spins at a low speed very cool air continously at bot of xps. dont think me mum be happy.

 

The jerks have made plenty of money. . . hah!

Seriously, if they made parts that wouldn't die. . . they wouldn't be in the constant flux of replacing units with new upgrades either, Clax. Something to seriously think about for future discussions.

 

I know they made boat loads of money. The same is true for the auto industry the replaceable parts ie. starter ,ac, seals,alternator are engineered to fail. most parts are designed to fail after the warranty runs out.

 

I don't know what you've been smoking, but I've had plenty of laptops that hit 3 years without any problems. I don't see what the problem is with having the expectations of a laptop hit 3 years, or how that's unresonable. You can't be serious claiming that you'll buy a PC or a Graphics card and expect that it will die in 1.5 years. that's just like 600 days man... What's the math here $800/600days= $1.33 per day, are you honestly saying that you're willing to pay $1.33 everyday to use a Graphics card. This is outrageous..... I don't even pay that in GAS for my Sports car atm per day.

 

Yes, but did you not get the point I was making. . . not the money factor. They're greedy. And you can call me a communist for this argument.

What I am saying is simple. They're loosing more by releasing shoddy products with lower life-spans, because then their own warranty forces them to replace older parts with newer ones, and older machines with newer models. They're not being very effective in the timing department for their approach to work.

 

RES5 Av=59.8 (186.81)500/799/1250 @3.2ghz High vsyncOff MotionBlurON frameRateunlocked 1920x1200 AA2x

kade, for me lower than expected , dont think "motion blur on" is a good idea to play res5

 

First of all I said they should last longer but they dont. I am not disagreeing with you It is just a fact of engineering parts are designed to fail. I have a tv in my kids room from 1984 that still works. While I have been through two big screens in the past three years. That is why I always buy the best warranty with any new piece of tech. As for your gas bill good for you . You must have the shortest commute ever. Or not much of a sports car.

 

Once again I am not disagreeing kade just making a point. Most people who buy products are not as tech savvy as the good folks who frequent this board. Which means most people dont get the best warranty like most of us would.

 

I only drive about 7 miles per day and my sports car is this literally, an old 93 Supra.

What can I say I like some of my old things and I want to keep them around, and I tinker play around with them to keep 'em running, but finding out how horrid the cards are leaves a sour after taste in my mouth.

 

I love old things also I drive a 1970 Buick skylark.I would love to still have my original commodore 64 butt alas it has went the way of the do-do long ago

 

Yes, but 60 FPS is still very good. Consoles only do 30 with lower resolution and glitter.

However, I needed you to do motionblur run for the sake of knowing what the 9800s can and cannot do at the same speed. Now I was under the impression that you had beaten my 280s, which isn't that far-fetched - 9800m GTX can come close with an overclock job. However, the test does prove that the 280m can handle post-processing effects much better without taking a performance hit, thanks to its faster design. DX10 motionblur is one of those features. I remember I used to get gimped by this on the M1730 - my average was also between 58-62 using motionblur.

 

I know, and companies take advantage of that fact. Shame on the whole bloody system and where it is headed.

Off topic:
My favourite semi-sporty car is still the classic 1990 BMW 325i M3. Next to that would be the 1993 Toyota Celica as well as the 1994 Honda Integra.

 

It does stink, especially with computers. not many companies value build quality and making things that will last. I have an old Acer Aspire desktop from circa 1997 that I play all my old Win95/98 games on(and for nostalgia, too) that works well for the most part(though recently it seems like it might be going out). I also have the ThinkPad T21 in my signature. Made in 2001, been with me since '04, and I have never had a problem with it that's not due to my own abuse.

I don't even use my M1730 that much anymore since I'm a little worried about burning the GPUs out. I'm actually migrating all of my critical stuff to my new T400 just in case that happens. While I love my XPS, I'm never buying anything with an Nvidia GPU in it, ever again... it's also one of the reasons I bought a T400 instead of a T410.


Continuing the off-topic: Nice MKIV Supra. I'm currently driving a 1991 Acura(or Honda for those of us in the UK) Legend Coupe... not too sporty but it's got a rare 5-speed manual: http://i25.photobucket.com/albums/c52/Feuerstoss/KA8 Oct 08/DSC01359.jpg

The Integra and the Celica are good choices as well... I would love to have a '93 Celica GT-Four, but they're extremely rare here in the US. I used to own a 1988 GT-Four, though: http://i25.photobucket.com/albums/c52/Feuerstoss/DSCN1598.jpg

 

@hikko: Thanks for the added tips.

 

Yeah there is no single GTX 280m nor GTX 260m that is faster than dual 8800m GTX. Also if the XPS M1730 would have been equipped with a Quad Core CPU that would be an entirely different aspect of the whole thing if we talk benchmarking and most games.

 

Hey fellas,


I see alot of X9000s in M1730s
Has anyone had success with an X9100 or is it confirmed unsupported?
i know the X9000 is 800fsb vs X9100 1066 But a Toshiba that i have was 667fsb and i pot a 800 and it worked..

It's just may be acquiring a Dirt cheap one with an Sli 8800GTX Just for a spare and fun project.
I already have the CPU..


Thanks,

Den

 

Captain, it just might work, but you will need to recalibrate the dilithium crystals of the warp drive or you might get in trouble

no seriously, it might work, but it will run alot slower @ stock speed than that it is rated ; ie: you' might have to ramp up the multiplier and you will run out of voltage to get a decent/stable OC i guess, on the other hand it might not work at all

 

. . .man, lack of power to get CPU power, eh? Sucks.

 

Thanks.


"Captain, it just might work, but you will need to recalibrate the dilithium crystals of the warp drive or you might get in trouble"

Lol

Well i would be Ok with X9100 clocked to the x9000 2.8 clocks but have been digging through the 100s of posts and not seen Concrete yay or nay on this just some say Max X9000....
If i get it i will try it i guess but having doubt just trying to find as much info before i decide to get one of these beasts

 

Also i'm aware Of The GPU Problems these systems have with the 9800/8800gtxs Even Read about the baking them etc and sure if they fail i can do that, swap etc

I found this below on the Internet:



(I have an XPS m1730 with 8800gtx sli cards it is 9 months old.
I had to replace the GPU cards under warranty when it was 6 months old.
After this problem occurred I have done a lot of research on this problem by monitoring my GPU temperature fluctuations. When I am gaming the cards will constantly sit at 79c which is within tolerances. What I have also noticed is that the cards constantly cycle between 49c to 75c at idle with no extra processes or software running which is a 26c range. I believe this constant up and down between temperatures is causing the cards soldering to be damaged.)

Now thinking to myself someone has thought of this already
Ok i guess the fan controller has not been addressed and OC the CPU to Keep them @100% helps etc seems to be the only option it seems.

I would think it would be possible to Hardwire the fans (If your Handy with soldering) Inside to a Switch IE 2 posisition auto/on type or (radioshack) Use a Variable speed dial from a Coolerpad and mod that into the laptop somewhere to take manual control
This should temps stable to resolve the problem if there is no Bios Fix? In theory i think it would work and be a Cool mod

What do you guys think?

 

Well, as a custom mod for a project, maybe not a bad idea. I mean, all custom jobs involve innovation and large degrees of risk. However, I think most of the M1730 owners here wouldn't be in favour of such a job on their machines as many of them are running under warranty.

Interesting idea no less. I too was thinking about something along those lines, but I have no concept of how to implement the technical aspects to such an idea.

 

Here's a Pic of my zalman nc2000

http://yfrog.com/j0zalmanj
I wouldn't want to butcher it but hey if i had an Awesome $3,000 laptop and thought this would be a permant fix it would be a $69 repair and This would be even better (DELL SHOULD BE IN FAVOR) to make a Kit for techs to mod and it would be Way cheaper than replacing video cards over and over!



This one for example is on off variable speed already internally wired and Is powered bu the USB port Via Jumper so a internal location for the switch and board and Jump the 2 fans for the vid card to the2 fan output wires and that's it..
i'm an electrician by trade and fix laptops for fun..

I will try this if i do get one just to see if it can be done..and it would be cool to have full control.

 

Been following this thread from the very beginning, and there was no mention here of anyone successfully installing X9100, or even attempting to do so to my knowledge. As far as I know, X9100 (Monteniva) is incompatible with Santa Rosa platform. But hey, if you have a spare cash and are willing to take a risk, would be interesting to see

On another note, has anyone tried new NVidia's WHQL driver (196.75)?

 

yes, they are awesome, it fixed my problems i was having with Aliens vs Predator 3 !!! I also heard from other people that their 3d mark scores upped marginally

edit : there's no mobile 196.75 yet, but I installed the desktop version with a modded inf from laptopvideo2go on my M1730

 

Great news, thanks. Will install them over the weekend to prepare for the upcoming Assassin's Creed 2

 

Hey guys, quick question.
I`m sending a desktop for some replacements, is there a program with which I could catalog the series of every part in the computer to keep track of what they change and what they don`t?
Could Everest do that?

 

Hmm i think you better write down manually the model and serial number of each individual part

 

ah, yes you better do that, because it has a SLI profile for that game

 

And how do I get all the serials without taking appart the thing?
That`s my main concern, it has a warranty seal.

 

In that case, Sisoft sandra can give you model & serialnumbers of SOME of the internals (mobo, hdd, cddrive, ram = YES , CPU, PCI cards = MAYBE , PSU = NO)

 

I *really* hope the 196.75 works for me, since I've had nothing but trouble with all nvidia drivers under Win 7 64 bit!!

Using Psyloid's extremely helpful page full of drivers (thanks mate!!), I was able to install Win 7 64-bit on Sunday and had 8 hours of gaming bliss playing my old favourite BF2142. However Monday it all went pear-shaped... following a mid-game screen freeze I rebooted and now after the login screen I get 10 seconds of desktop, and then the machine will lock up! Blank screen, no icons, no mouse pointer, and even the Logitech LCD will freeze. (Interestingly the screen maintains the colour of the background I'm using. If I'm using the default windows background image, the whole screen goes light-blue (which is what the majority of that image is)).

I'm convinced it's a graphics driver issue, since (a) I can SEE the desktop and even open files in the 10 seconds I have before the freeze (b) EVERYTHING works if I unsintall the nvidia 192.65 driver and let Windows use it's standard VGA one.

I've CLEAN re-installed Win 7 64-bit (formatted c: ) about 8 times since then, and all i've been doing is installing various graphics drivers each time. Tried many 18x.xx, and 19x.xx drivers and still get the freeze 10 secs after logon. I see DDT5 has a similar system to mine - did you have any issues with Win 7 64 bit?

It's frustrating since everything worked (including the 192.65 driver) the first time I installed Win 7 on Sunday!!! :-(

Anyway, will try the new drivers after work and see how it goes!

 

Hi

Sorry boss, that to me sounds like you GPU has fried

Same thing happened to me ... playing [i think it was gta4] and it froze and restarted on me .. logged in to W7 - could see everything then restarted ... same process a few time then disabled SLI - Same again

removed drivers and used W7 standard drivers and could use the machine.

tried every driver going - same problem - after install and restart it would restart again and again

- Talk to dell [sorry] and get a new graphics card - u can atleast use windows under the standard driver - think of that blissfull silver lining

Regards

Fatch

 

Aw shucks. After hours of trawling Google, I had a faint suspicion this might have been the case. My damn wishful thinking refused to let me accept it...

*sigh*

Well, I'm still under warranty (managed to scam 3 years warranty from the Indian sales rep when I bought it back in April 2008). I seem to remember somewhere in this thread tips for what to replace it with now that Dell have discontinued the model. Will start searching now...

A million thanks Fatch. Confirmed bad news is better than spending the next 3 days hoping, trying, and failing.

 

Even tho they have discontinued the model they are still warrenty bound to find a replacement for you - equal or better spec

try and push for the Alienware if all else fails

regards

Fatch

 

I had no problems with video drivers, and I have gone through a few of them with Win 7 x64 installed.
As it has been stated already, looks like your cards fried. Sorry about that. But look at the bright side. Some people manage to get a 9800M GTX SLI as replacement for 8800M GTXs, which is a nice upgrade. Or Alienware system, which is is even better upgrade.