Dell XPS M1730 Owner's Lounge, *Part 3*

9800m GT cards were made on both 55nm and 65 nm, the 8700m GT was 80nm

 

I don`t see why not. However, if the fans kick in faster, then why bother?

 

Yes it's possible. It just keeps telling you you're about to flash to an older version and lets you do it anyways.

Thanks, that makes sense. +rep

 

My 8800 GTXs are idling at about 54 degrees. Is this thing going to get super loud on me?

UPDATE: Installed A11 and played Guild Wars for a bit. It seems like there's no difference in loudness until the temps reach mid-high 50s then the fan turn on full blast and quickly knocks the temp back three or four degrees. It's a bit distracting at times I must admit, but the gpus are much cooler. I used to run 70-72 and now the full-blast fan keeps me in the high-50s. That's a huge difference.

I'm overdue to open up my case and dust the thing out so I could probably see a bit more improvement still.

 

That's right about where the bios were forcing my cards to stay, but mine idled at 65-70 Celsius previously.

 

I'm not getting any change in loudness while just browsing the internet. That was my main concern.

 

I guess my case has is unique so far.

 

The point isn't about what readings your cards show when they're idle. It's about how hot they get under maximum load before the fans finally kick into full speed in order to bring those readings down a notch. With the older bios, the thermal tables were a bit too weak and the maximum fan speed only kicked in when the cards would reach the upper 70s or something -- not a good setup as many of us have our fair share of stories regarding GPU failures.

Anyway, congratulations to all the M1730 users. This update did come pretty late, but better late than never.

 

If you're idling at 65-70 something is very wrong. I'm idling at 48-53 right now.

 

That was before A11. My load temperatures were always very reasonable though. (Furmark would stabilize at 79 Celsius)

 

I guess it finally paid off to having the link in the sig.
As soon as I get my hands on the beast again I`ll update it and game on

Also, with A10, I was idling at 50, 50 something the only issue was with max temps, which could get as high as 80-81C.

 

If I'm not mistaken and my memory is working... lol, the issue with the failing GPUs was due to the whole rinse and repeat cycle. If the A11 BIOS is keeping them cool then thats fine and dandy.. What I want to know is, how is it with idle? I'm not even sure which driver you folks are using anymore. Is NV's PowerMizer working correctly?

Bottom line -

As long as the GPUs are not heating up during idle to bring the fans on and then once cooled, kicking off and then heating right back up to the threshold of the thermal table, then you should be fine. Lower temps under load are a nice item as well. If its still doing that old 'rinse and repeat' behavior, then I certainly would question A11.

I still miss my old M1730. I should pick up another off of craigslist.

 

There was one fully loaded for 1000$ some pages back, on another forum...heck, I would`ve bought that for parts, hehe, but I`m not in the US, so I skipped it.

 

Finally got time time to test out BIOS A11.
While browsing the web, with a few other programs running in the background, my temps stay below 50 C, same as with A10. So, no difference there in temperatures or noise.
Then I fired up Mafia 2 benchmark. At 55 C fans kick in at the same speeds as they used to at around 65 C before. At 61 C fan speed increases even further. In A10 fans were reaching this speed at about 85 - 90 C. So, huge improvement there. However, noise can be annoying, especially if you use speakers while gaming. I personally use headphones, so no problem for me there. Fans are not as loud as they are at 3.2/3.4Ghz, but they come pretty close.

Bottom line, with A10 my temps while running Mafia 2 bench (run it 3 times) were somewhere around 70-75C. With A11 they never got over 64 C. Were running around 61-64 C. This is a huge improvement, if you don't mind the noise.

Just in case anyone wonders, I'm running the latest Nvidia driver (260.99), and using Everest to measure the temperature.

Oh, and on final note. When fans kick in at high speeds at 61 C, they tend to cool down GPUs and slow down. Then kick in again. This happens quite often, so can become annoying at times.

 

New BIOS update came out? How did I missed that? Well, I'll stay with the older BIOS as I'm a big noise maniac, if my cards die again I won't bother, as I'm still on warranty.

 

But Dell may require you to use the new bios if you are under warranty before giving you something like an M17x as a replacement

 

Hi there, I am looking for some advice on a new processor for my machine, I am a bit clueless on what I am allowed to put in it!

Could anyone suggest a good processor I can put in? And also am I able to put more ram in than the 4gig i already have?

Manufacturer: Dell XPS M1730
Processor: Intel(R) Core(TM)2 Duo CPU T9300 @ 2.50GHz (2 CPUs), ~2.5GHz
Memory: 3262MB RAM
Hard Drive: 306 GB
Video Card: DUAL SLI 512MB NVIDIA GeForce 8800GTX
windows vista 32bit

cheers!

 

The best CPU you can put in the XPS M1730 is a Core 2 Duo X9000.

Fixed, thanks TimeWriter.

 

This would be the dumbest thing ever. Everyone knows that updating the BIOS is a risky business, so this would be a very good reason for not do that.

Be aware that X9100 is NOT compatible with this machine as it has an 1066MHz FSB. Only X9000 will work and frankly, I'd only upgrade if I needed overclocking.

 

Yes the X9000 is the best CPU you can put in. I can recommend it since I got a very nice boost in many of the games I play.

 

Before issuing a replacement, dell will have you try the new bios to see if that fixes the problem. If it does even though you do not like the results they will close the case.

 

If my GPUs will die (and they sure will), then they can put me install whatever BIOS they want, a BIOS update won't fix a dead GPU. If they have replacement GPUs then it's all good, if they don't then I'll be getting another laptop, probably an M17x. Either way, I need a silent laptop as I keep mine running 24/7, so this BIOS update is a no-go for me.

 

Howdy guys,

Splinter cell conviction, not the best game but why does it run SO badly on the beast?? Advice on how to get this one running smoothly greatly appreciated. All other games are fine

 

This isn't the case anymore. BIOS updates are now very safe. As a computer repair technician and hobbyist, I've updated hundreds of BIOSes over the years and never had a single problem.

 

The new BIOS isn't any louder when idle or under light load. So unless you're pushing your GPUs 24/7 it will be just as silent (or loud) as before.

 

I suspect it is a driver related issue as we know the hardware is capable

 

Scook's right. M1730/Beast is plenty capable for a majority of these games at high settings. My friend's got Splinter Cell: Conviction running full-blast on his Toshiba X305 with 9800m GTS SLi. I used to have the beast running a majority of console ports with just one GPU anyway (including Modern Warfare 2). Had it not been for the thermal-cycling induced GPU failures, I'd still favour gaming on one of those over my present system.

Magnus, perhaps you could take over since you're one of the best at tweaking settings here at NBR.

 

Yes it´s most highlikely because you don´t run with any SLI profile for Splinter Cell. I´ll see if I can get hold of a copy or download the demo and make an SLI profile for it.

 

Cheers Guys,

Yeah I tried a few searches online for HeX settings for SLI but the beast just did not like them ....

If you could do that mag that would be really awesome, on our previous chats, XP is great for gaming on the beast, you were right , the main thing I have noticed is that games suffer much less from stutters, perhaps due to using TinyXP....

Anyway always a pleasure guys hope someone comes up with something

 

Just got around to updating to the A11 BIOS, and now my fans are cycling like crazy even at idle. I'm running 32-bit Vista (which Dell installed in lieu of WinXP when I sent it in to get my screen fixed a couple month ago) and have 8700M GT SLI GPUs.

I had SpeedFan installed for a couple minutes (uninstalled because it didn't show fan speeds, just temps - anyone know a fan speed monitor for M1730?) and it seemed to show that the fans kicked in every time the GPU temp got to around 57 degrees C, then off at 56C, then back on at 57C etc. Net result is the fan running at full blast for 5-10 sec every 10-30 sec even at idle.

The crazy fan thrashing was happening even when I was in the BIOS screen just after flashing A11! I'm thinking of going back to A10 because I don't see how running the fans that hard is going to be any better for the longevity of my system than running at higher temps. I don't understand why they didn't tune it to run longer and less often, like kicking in at 65C and off at 55C or somesuch instead of the crazy on at 57C and off at 56C settings.

 

@hunter, did you try to flash back to A10 and then back again to A11? If not, try that. Perhaps something just went funky - not impossible.

Is anyone able to confirm his fan behavior? that sounds horrible and exactly along the lines of what I mentioned before about the 'rinse and repeat'.

 

I haven't tried that yet, but I did boot into Ubuntu Linux by accident and noticed that my fans didn't cycle there. On a hunch, I booted back into Vista and disabled SLI (and dedicated my second GPU to PhysX) and haven't noticed fan cycling since. I wonder if the problem is that Dell didn't test with SLI configurations?

I plan to keep running this way for now, as this laptop is now my secondary gaming machine, and as such is only used for games like Dwarf Fortress and emulators that won't benefit much from SLI anyways.

 

My previous post:

Bottom line is that is the exact same behavior that I am experiencing. However, my temps never go above 50 C when idle. Hence, I am experiencing these fans speed cycles only when gaming, or doing other GPU intensive tasks.
Your idle temperature seems to be a bit high to me. Try cleaning out the system. Propping up the back of the laptop by a few cm does bring temperature down by a few degrees as well.

 

As a troubleshooting step, I blew out the fans very thoroughly with a can of compressed air. This seemed to have no noticeable effect on the cycling.

I use the laptop on a hard, flat wood lapdesk, and I make sure to keep all 4 feet of the laptop on that surface. I did not feel an excessive amount of heat being trapped under the laptop.

What is the status of SLI enable/disable in the nVidia control panel on your system?

It may also be that Vista Aero works the GPUs harder when idling than Windows 7 does.

 

SLI is on on my system. So is PhysX. PhysX is set to auto in the control panel.

While blowing out fans does help, if you have not thoroughly cleaned your system for a year or more, it would not help much. You need to take the system apart and do a thorough cleaning. There are a lot of step-by-step tutorial on these forums on how to take M1730 apart.

Not sure about how much does Aero affect temperatures tbh. Try disabling Aero in Vista altogether. However, I don't think it will change things.

Also, note that ambient temperatures play a big role as well. It is relatively cold in my room, and laptop is situated near a window. During the summer, when it was 40 C outside, my idle temps were much higher.

 

I'm not really comfortable with taking apart my XPS to do that extensive a cleaning at this point, as it's no longer under warranty. The intake and exhaust ports of the system and GPU fans are pretty easy to blow out without opening/disassembling the case, so I don't feel that there's a high likelihood of dust buildup in a heat-critical area.

The ambient temperature is pretty constant, as I have central heating and air conditioning in my house and my computers live downstairs where it tends to be naturally cooler. I agree that this does make a huge difference, as I have in the past experienced stability issues with computers during the summer while living in houses & 2nd/3rd floor apartments without air conditioning.

I might try switching SLI back on just to see what happens. It could be that something was screwy that has since ironed itself out.

 

This is a weird issue. I don't notice much of a difference in temps with SLI on/off when idling. What are your temps when SLI is off?

And as batboy recommended earlier, try to reflash BIOS and reinstall video drivers. Oh, and just in case you are using some old drivers, try to install newer drivers specifically designed for laptops.

 

So, I can't update the BIOS because I can't get the battery to charge...

Is there any chance at all that I could get my m1730 back under warranty at this point, even though it's been out of warranty for almost a year now? I honestly didn't realize that extending the warranty was even possible when it was expiring, otherwise I would have. The power issues I've continued to have are worrying enough that I need to start exploring my options.

 

My second M1730 went out of support coverage after 3 years last month. It was my fourth Dell premium laptop in succession (Inspiron 9100, Inspiron 9300 and two M1730s). Just prior to the expiry my 8800 GTX sli died as Australian summer approached. Dell Australia were quick to replace it and to my pleasure upgraded to a 9800GTX SLI. I only last week realized (after spending a good many hours running s-video and an spdif line through the house) that they had without telling me given me a card without a port for s-video/spdif. No problem I thought at the time even though I am now out of support they will understand and rectify the removal of a critical component in my work. Dell support were understanding and cooperative as is my experience.
However, the backend processes and communication to engineers seems to be somewhat confused. After two separate visits by engineers both times they came with an identical card without the required port. On speaking with a support manager while the engineers were here I learned that the 8800s are no longer supported (or even available) and neither are 9800s with the spdif/s-video port. The hole where it should be is quietly taped over and nothing is mentioned to the customer about the absent feature. They have tried to convince me to live with it but it is such a key feature for me I must persue this further. What I cannot get is a definitve answer on is how they expect to support the existing base of M1730s without a storm of complaint over removed key interfaces. Has anyone else run into this issue?
To Dell's credit during the visits they did fix a silent right speaker by first replacing the speaker and when that didn't work - replacing the motherboard even though the contract had expired. I surmised the missing port may be related to the problem with the speaker but I was assured this could not be the case.

 

You've had better luck with Dell than I have. They've refused to honor their warranty. I've considered a filing a lawsuit against dell since I really have no other remedy available. Wish you luck in dealing with them.

The latest BIOS update is does reduce thermals but as with others I can confirm that it makes the fan behavior a bit wonky. I find the noise quite loud and distracting and the fans will kick in even when it shouldn't according to GPU temps.

I'm considering trying to flash back to older BIOS, I don't find the noise or fan behavior to be acceptable.

If it weren't for this entire warranty debacle I'd probably sell this machine and be rid of this albatross and Dell forever.

 

That has always been the case with the 9800 GTX SLi for the beast. They never came with the s-video port. Personally, I was okay with just using the DVI with normal stereo-output from the headphones jack. I found this more favourable since the 9800m GTX does offer some worthwhile improvements over the 8800m GTX/9800m GT, such as a slightly higher shader count and double the VRAM, which shows benefit in certain DX10 games and texture-heavy applications.

 

For S-video resolution and quality are out the window anyways.....get a USB solution?

 

So, all those of you whom upgraded to the A11 BIOS, can you give me some feedback? I haven`t gotten the Beast back yet, and I`m anxious to hear how things changed with the new fan setup...

 

Have you tried cleaning out your case? This sounds like a poor airflow issue to me. Your Beast is idling too high...

 

Blowing air in the vents keeps them pretty clean, but think about what you're doing: you're blowing air into the GPU. I was just using air for a while but when I finally got around to opening my case up I saw a number of large dust bunnies just inside the vent, essentially blocking it. There were other ones wrapped around the fan blades as well. So while the vents themselves were clean, airflow was being obstructed. My temps dropped by 5 degrees once I got those suckers outta there.

 

Really? I've watched my temps and fan speed quite a bit and haven't noticed this kind of thing at all. What application are you using to monitor your temps?

 

My feedback is this:

Pros:
- Much cooler temperatures. Like... 10-12 degrees cooler.
- Our GPUs are going to have a much longer life now.
- I don't feel like the clock is ticking on my system every time I play a game.

Cons:
- When you're gaming, the fans kick on pretty high and loud. The fans are so strong in fact, that temps rocket downward and the fan gets quiet again. Then it repeats. So it can be distracting. If you use headphones you won't notice it.
- Even if you're not gaming, it you're multitasking or using some light graphical apps, the fans will kick in sooner than before (though not too loud).

 

Yeah, that's how things go with these features.

To answer your question regarding the possibility of going R2. Well, I even find the R1 to be a slight overkill, and the R2 to be a slightly greater overkill. XPS was great, R1 was slightly better, and R2--for my needs--is about another slight notch better than the R1. I don't see a ground breaking difference across the chart from XPS M1730 to the R2 to warrant the need for an R2 when I have the R1. If my system breaks down and Dell were to offer a suitable replacement in the form of an R2 then I'll accept. The only real, viable feature that I do consider substantial with the M17x is the quad core CPUs, which are entirely impossible on the M1730.

I would've been happy just gaming on The Beast with 9800m GTX SLi, since I prefer to know the limits of my machine and then setup the software to look its best while running under those limits (Magnus72's approach). Unfortunately, the GPU failures reached a point where I just couldn't be bothered. I got my XPS M1730 in December 2008, and by June 2009, I was already on my 5th replacement GPU. Long story short, I got a massive refund and had some cash to spare for the M17X R1. I've had this machine for almost a year now and not one GPU failure or issue. So I have to give this machine credit where it's due: it is solid and reliable in the sense that core components don't literally die out.

 

Update: I have toggled SLI on and off multiple times now and am 100% convinced that SLI is what is causing my fan cycling issue with the A11 BIOS and official, unmodded nVidia 260.99 WHQL notebook drivers. My system is not overclocked. I have attached screenshots of SpeedFan showing my temps and fan speeds.

slioff: Temps and speeds with SLI disabled.
slion_normal: Temps and speeds when the fans are not abnormally loud (note that temps are noticeably higher than with SLI disabled for some reason).
slion_spike: Temps and speeds while the fans are running full blast (note that temps are only around 1 degree higher).
slion_speeds: Graph of fan speeds over a few minutes (look at those spikes!).
slion_temps: Graph of temps over a few minutes (notice that they aren't varying much at all).

 

Regarding s-video absent on the 9800s -thanks for the confirmation I guess that was all I needed.
I mainly use DVI - hdmi at 720p anyway but as a backup option it has served me well. I have come to love the new 9800gtx rig and will count my blessings instead. A cheap DVI-HDMI-s-video will do the trick as advised if or when required. I have spdif out options via USB so I'll leave it at that. With the new bios even though it cycles a bit I have dropped the GPU clock speeds 20% and my ears are glad to not have to run the x9000 in 3.2/3.4 overclock mode to protect the GPUs from that 75degrees Celcius that was the norm when running at 2.8. With throttlestop and Nvidia tune (6.05 on driver 260.99) I am pleased to be able to run at the x9000 at 2.8 with the GPU around 60. I would prefer the fans to run slowly but continuously rather than the on and off style. I have had no luck with ntune and the fans, only GPU clockshader/mem speed can be set.

cheers