Dell's Graphic Driver vs. Modified Nvidia Driver for 445M

Question: "I've always used the latest GPU drivers straight from ATI or nVidia. Has anyone seen how they compare to Dell drivers?"

This question came up during a discussion( on http://forum.notebookreview.com/dell-xps-studio-xps/532182-dell-xps-17-l701x-thread-101.html ) about testing the MSI Afterburner that allows "Overclocking" the GPU of your graphics card (in this case the Nvidia GeForce GT 445M)and which driver was the best to use, either the Dell driver or the driver from Nvidia. So, to get the ball rolling, I decided to compare the two and post the results, using a modified Nvidia driver from NVIDIA & Laptop News | Latest NVIDIA drivers and related news | laptopvideo2go.com and one from Dell's download manager.

The reason for the modded Nvidia driver, was at the time of this test you could not download directly from Nvidia's site if you have a Dell product, because of some form of an agreement between Dell and Nvidia.

But regardless of the reason why, the issue of Dell vs Nividia can be quantified if more test results are posted. the posts that will be at the beginning of this thread will show my results before the use of MSi Afterburner.
And for simplicity, I would like your postings of before and after driver changes with just 3Dmark6 scores.

Reason for 3DMark6: because of it's simplicity, every body can use this test and it's the free version and It gives a easy number to simplify the results.

Why did I post this thread?: Curiosity, because it's there, to go where no person has gone before, you get the picture. It's for the tweakers out there that want the most bang for their buck. Just an honest attempt to investigate the ins and outs of a Dell product and it's component and the best drivers for said component.

WARNING!!! Please be familiar with the driver that you are downloading and testing before attempting to use a "overclocking" program to enhance that driver. I would suggest just running the driver "as is" for a period of time to make sure that the download was free of any issues and then, if so inclined, enhance per DaneGRClose's instructions posted below.

Let's see some results!

P.S. Thanks to ZippoMan, killaz05, sdatwatter, Xymox, compwiz0620 and DaneGRClose for supplying info and the drive to post this....

**************************************************NOTICE***************************************************************
I have refocused the thread to reflect that search is for the best graphics driver for the 445M and is no longer emphasizing the difference between Dell and Nvidia mainly due to the fact regardless of where the driver is downloaded, it is at it's heart a Nvidia driver.
***********************************************************************************************************************
__________________________________________________________________________________________

mine before any changes with dellware version 8.17.12.3959

( side note, the older version stated is better in performance than the newer dell version 8.17.12.5159 )



after Mod Nivida version 8.7.12.6309


The scores are about the same for both on standard settings without Afterburner. GPU core temp for the modded Nvidia driver averaged 55C where as the Dell driver averaged around 45C, both operating under normal load.

But both scores increased as expected using Afterburner,Dell 11117(drv ~.3959) and Nvidia 11369 (~.6309) with the Afterburner settings as follows : Core Clk 712 Shader Clk 1425 Memory Clk 912 , no other changes.<!-- / message --><!-- attachments -->
GPU core temps increased as well (Dell max temp 67C during 3DMark, Nvidia max temp 68C during 3DMark)

The modded Nvidia performed better, but was it the best driver(Dell or Nvidia) for the longevity and performance of the Vid card?
I am aware that there are modded Nvidia drivers that are better than others, and the same for Dell drivers, but I thought I would let you discover which is better, because I r just one man


Now Get some results in here to compare (**with driver versions and core temps included **).

Rooster

*******************************************************************************************************************

For installing Nvida drivers directly from their site, I suggest first reading their link I posted below.
GeForce Driver Installation Guide - NVIDIA Forums

------Great tweaking guide found by compwiz0620-----

------------FORCEWARE TWEAK GUIDE--------------

----------------------------------------------------- DRIVER SWEEPER----------------------------------------------------------------------------
To make sure that you do have a clean install I suggest downloading Driver Sweeper for Windows 7 and then follow the following steps suggested by DaneGRClose:

1-boot into safe mode by pressing f8 at startup until it comes up with the option to start in safe mode

2-start Driver Sweeper, then click the box with anything that starts with Nvidia

3-click analyse

4-click the box that looks like * then select all and make sure all the boxes have checks next to them

5-click clean, click ok, click ok to reboot

6-boot into windows in normal mode, you may get a pop up box that asks you to enter a y or a n, select n then hit enter

7-reinstall the driver of your choice(266.35, 266.44, etc)

8-reboot and you should be good

*******************************************USING 3DMark6*********************************************************

A good point suggested by compwiz0620 for using 3DMark6 is when you are ready to run a test, restart windows and do not to have any other programs running when you do start your test run.
When you do run a test, use the same settings (if you are able to change any) every time to validate your scores and you will be able to compare the results and correlate an over all score for your performance of the Nvidia GeForce GT 435M/445M graphics card.

*****************************************************************************************************************

----------------------------------------------------POINTERS&SUGGESTIONS---------------------------------------------------------------------

For those who are new to tweaking their Video Graphics Card, our resident expert DaneGRClose had the following suggestions that I would highly recommend that you commit to memory...

1-Monitor temps at all times, it doesn't matter what driver you are using(modded, nvidia, dell, etc). If you overclock it will always change the stability of the card so MONITOR, MONITOR, MONITOR.

2-When overclocking(especially with anything other than Dell drivers) go very slowly, using 5-15mhz increases each time, then run a stress test to ensure stability. Also only overclock one thing at a time, do not up the core and ram and shader all at the same time, up just one of them then stress test. It's a slow process but it will save the possibility of damaging you system.

Dane's suggestions for the best overclocking programs to use with our Graphics Card

MSI Afterburner- easier to use, better graphic interface, overclock and monitor everything with one program. But it does have a maximum amount you can overclock, if your card will handle higher than that you may need something else, above all don't jump to the maximum overclock just test and if you find you can stabily run higher then do.

EVGA Precision-pretty much the same as MSI Afterburner with a slightly different interface and usually allows higher overclocks than MSI Afterburner will. The menu's and some features may be a bit harder for some users to find/use.

Nvidia System Tools- This basically just adds additional options to your Nvidia Control Panel, it enables overclocking, saves different levels of overclock, etc. It isn't a very effective monitor for temps, fps, etc.


----------------------ADDENDUM---------------------------


---------------- DOWNLOAD HERE ------------------
suggestions for running Furmark 1.8.2 stability test
-Either 1280x1024 or Native Res
-MSAA at 4-8x
-XTreme Burning Mode checked
-Post FX enabled
-Stability test for 15mins to an hour

--------------- --DOWNLOAD HERE--------------------


--------------- DOWNLOAD HERE-----------------

 

Can't say for certain on the 445m, but with the 425m in my XPS 14 and every other graphics card I've used for that matter the Dell drivers get slapped silly on performance when compared to Nvidia/ATI direct drivers. You may need to mod the drivers until the next release though as 260.99 never had the ID strings in it for our cards(they are different ID strings than the rest of the 425/435/445 cards in other systems as Dell mods the cards) a good place to source them is laptopvideo2go.com, I'm running a modded set of 265.66 drivers on my rig and saw a 150pt increase in 3DMark11 and a world of difference on snappiness, smoothness, and performance in games and other apps.

 

********************************************DRIVERS TESTED SO FAR***************************************************

Dell A01(259.39) ran initial test with this driver, had better performance than A02 and A03

Dell A02(259.51)

Dell A03(259.51 with edited files)

Dell A04 just for those who prefer Dell....

Nvidia 263.09 ran initial comparison with this driver vs. the Dell driver in which Nvidia scored higher with AfterBurner but core temp increased

Nvidia 266.35 beta tested but had below par scores compared to Dell 259.39 and 266.44

Nvidia 266.44 (modded) for i7's only, no support for Optimus. tested from 1/3/2011 to 1/18/2011 no major problems while installed. idle temp averaged 55C max temp ever was 79C

Nvidia 266.58 tested 1/18/2011 scores for both runs below par and core temp was higher. reverted back to 266.44 as of 1/20/2011

Nvidia 270.61 I no longer have the 445M so testing is upto the L701x users...Post the results!

Rooster

 

posted by DaneGRClose

so far(not much to go on) Nvidia Mod definitely has the performance edge. I did include the link to laptopvideo2go.com in mission statement and I will here as well http://www.laptopvideo2go.com/ .
Thank you for your information, this is the type of information we need to find out the answer for Dell vs. Nvidia.
Just for my curiosity, what is your average core temp with your Nvidia driver 265.66? and what do you consider "too hot"?

Rooster

 

so...which driver will give the best performance/stability for the xps17's 445?

 

Good question...
that's what I am hoping to flesh out here. so far I reverted back to the dell version 8.17.12.3959 with Afterburner, it has stayed the coolest, and no crashes as of yet(2 days running), With the Nvidia I got a higher performance but about a 10C increase under normal load with Afterburner, that made me ansy, this being a new laptop.
I can live with a 200pt difference for now. later, who knows?

Rooster

 

sorry I lost you when you mention "afterburner"...is this some sort of software like ThrottleStop? Also, when you say coolest, what temperature would that be and does this version of driver affect any of your games' performance?

 

MSi Afterburner MSI Afterburner allows you to "overclock" your GPU for better performance
Before I started anything other than the original Dell driver, I monitored my core temp of my GPU with CUIPMonitor CPUID - System & hardware benchmark, monitoring, reporting
and It hovered around 42 degrees Celsius in a cool room during normal use(light gaming, playing blurays etc)

Now with Afterburner "on", my core temp of my GPU hovers around 47 degrees Celsius with same cool room and core temp during tests(3DMark6, and playing Mass Effect 2) highest temp has been 77C during a 3 hour time period.

In it's simplest terms, it's trying to find a balance for improved graphic performance without torching your card.

I am hoping with this thread we can find the best performance/sustainability driver, either Dell or the Modified Nvidia driver.

Rooster

 

great job rooster , luvv u!

i still have the factory version 8.17.12.3959 and i'm not sure if it worths upgrade with new driver;

by the way, what frequences have you selected for overclock? only gpu or memory or both?

 

" luvv u! " ...awwwww shucks

Core Clk 712 Shader Clk 1425 Memory Clk 912 , no other changes

I am still using killaz05's first setting, I found it to be the most stable , but if your willing to play with it, go up from there in small increments
and it's not worth the dell upgrade, the older dell driver works better, stays cooler, and better test scores.
Happy Tweeking!

Rooster

 

One thing to mention is with the latest Dell driver the GPU/CPU combined tests in 3DMark 11 did not work. The screen stayed black during the tests.

After installing 265.90 NVIDIA driver these tests run fine.


Here my MSI Afterburner screenshot (idle status)




Here MSI Afterburner screenshot while running 3dMark06 tests



And this is the 3DMark06 score



This is based on:

i7 QM740
NVIDIA GT 445M
NVIDIA drivers 265.90
No overclocking (stock speeds)

 

Thanks for posting!
so far Nvidia has the performance edge, with 5C temp increase on average

Keep posting your results !!
Rooster

 

Rooster, could you post your afterburner settings in the first post? This I can fiddle around from there when I have my machine (and the time... lol).

 

Done
under " Both scores increased using Afterburner...."
Rooster

 

Eh Rooster (and RedlanceEQ).
Where did you get the nice banner?

 

RedlanceEQ is the "artist" who created the sig, Nice isn't it?
Rooster

 

Actually, I did not "create it" per se. I got it from the owner of LesDeLLiens.com - Le forum non-officiel sur DeLL, where I'm helping, and adapted it to my needs (change of color, typefont for name, etc.).

I'm working on an improved version (which I want a little longer) so I can fit a bit more data in it.

 

See, that's what I get for not having a European education. I can barely read English
does anyone know a good translation trick?
EDIT found windows gadget that translates english to almost any language, but not the reverse
In the "Good 'Ol U.S.A" where education is last on the "to do" list....
Rooster

 

Hehe, I'm actually fluent in English, to a point where my written English is better than my French.

Updated my sig now (added battery, optical drive, bluetooth and changed the windows icon). What do you think?

 

Sweeeet!
I likey alot
I Have been playing with GIMP but barely know my head from my "u-no-wat" with that prog. It is really nice. thanks for turning me on to it.
Rooster

 

Yeah, a very handy program. I'll have to see to clean up the two new icons. I had not spotted it before but you can see a few white crenelation dots. It makes them less slick than the others. Got both from the Dell website.

 

I know these aren't results from the 445m but the principal is still the same, below are my results of 4 different drivers. 1-Dell A02 2-Modded 265.77 3-Modded 265.90 4-Modded 266.44. I ran both a stock run and an OCed run at 685/1370/875, all are at the exact same settings and I also included temps in each one as modded drivers can sometimes cause temperature instability.

Dell A02 Stock Speeds:


Dell A02 Overclocked:


Modded 265.77 Stock:


Modded 265.77 Overclocked:


Modded 265.90 Stock:


Modded 265.90 Overclocked:


Modded 266.44 Stock:


Modded 266.44 Overclocked:

 

FANTASTIC!!!!!!!!
that's what we are looking for! thank you, thank you, thank you!

Color me extremely impressed...
Rooster

 

I was originally running the 265.66 drivers that seemed to be the best out of the 265.xx series but the 266.44 set seems to be better for actual in game and app performance, the score was 20 or so pt lower but I think 266.44 is the best. If anyone wants a set of them pre modded let me know what GPU you have and I'll upload them

 

Nvidia GeForce GT 445M -ver 266.44 please

Question: What is a stable core temp for the longevity of the Vid card that is "overclocked"?
I understand that heat is the enemy of all electronics, but for new and old tweakers alike, nobody likes to have to replace a vid card too often just due to cost and hassle.

just putting "it" out there....
Rooster

edit: it's not lookin too goood for the Dell drivers...

 

I second that.

By the way, there was a new Dell driver out this morning, but I couldn't download it as it led to some error page.

 

Honestly with my experience Dell's drivers for performance GPU's always have and always will suck when compared to Nvidia lol. I will uploaded a modded set for the 266.44/GT 445m as soon as I get home tonight along with instructions. Once Nvidia starts releasing the next driver package for Mobile we shouldn't have to do any mods as it's just the id strings missing.

 

Hmmm... Downloaded and intalled Afterburner and Kombustor. Afterburner launches fine but each time I try to launch Kombustor I get this message:

I've tried reinstalling 3 times now but to no avail. I'm also using the program downloaded directly from MSI.

Help?

 

:confused2:
ummm..let me think..I had a similar issue, but I am trying to remember how I remedied the problem.
uh..just for kicks and giggles run the 3DMark6 without any changes and get an initial reading.
Also, have you already updated the graphics driver?
and have you actually "intialized" Afterburner buy applying the normal settings?
I will keep searching for my notes....
Rooster

 

Here is the 266.44 Driver package for the GT435/445m guys:

266.zip

Unzip, open the setup file, install. And when the "Driver signature..." popup comes up just click install anyway as I can't make a signature file.

Only other recommendation is to use either the clean install option or wipe your old driver first.

 

mee too, cheers

 

No, I'm still with the default drivers from Dell that I got with the machine (Afterburner calls it ForceWare 259.39). I've just applied the normal settings and restarted the program but still same problem.

 

that was quick! thanks.
ill be installing this tomorrow when my lappy arrives

 

I know this is probably a stupid response, but are you running the program as "administrator"?
Right now I am at a lost....but will keep looking...
hang in there...
Rooster

edit: thats the dell driver I am using as right now, so it's not the driver...

 

Yup, I'm admin. Don;t worry, there are no stupid questions.

 

apparently I some how already had the complier loaded before Afterburner( probably from installing rivatuner RivaTuner earlier)
but this is the way my folder looks for Afterburner


and suprise this isn't an ucommon problem
d3dcompiler_42.dll free download - DLL-files.com

try installing rivatuner and I think confused: ) this will solve your problem

Rooster

 

Did you see the driver Rooster? It was the last post on page 3

 

yes I did, and downloaded it on the spot!
Thanks alot!
I am going to install tonight after I make a new restore point.

I will post my results then, but I believe you've pretty much put in the "death nail" for Dell graphic drivers...
p.s. I will try to keep this zip file on the current page
266.zip
Rooster

 

Okay, installed Rivatuner but that did not fix it. Went to get the dll itself and extracted it. Now I get this:

Something with directx11 maybe?

After some googling, looks like it is a bug from the video driver. I downloaded the latest Dell one and am installing now.

 

You bet! Really not that hard to do, the Optimus guys may be in a different boat though as it requires additional files in the package. Anyone with optimus don't use that package just pm me. Dell needs to just stop with the driver modding, they honestly suck at it lol.

 

I think your right....
I think you got a "busted" verison of Kompbuster....


Your file should include the compiler..
sorry of the incorrect info earlier....
Rooster

 

Well, last Nov driver from Dell did not change the bug. Tried redownloading and reinstalling Kombuster but still same problem. Getting frustrating here...

 

That's great, thanks! I'm downloading it now.

Will rep you tomorrow, as I'm out of rep for today

 

:confused2:
could it be the download site.. mine was an american...
(I don't think that's it but I putting it in as a thinking process)
I've scanned the kombuster forums and so far the only thing that jumps out at me is a BIOS update which I did before anything with Afterburner.
will keep searching...
Rooster

P.S. keeping the latest driver noticed
266.zip

 

I'm downloading the 266.zip file and will install that driver.

Kombuster is just the benchmark program right? Not a big loss if I do not have it either I think.

 

Kombuster is just a repackaged furmark lol.

 

yes it is, and no, you don't really need it...

well there ya go...lol
will add that to my notes!
That's what I get for being out of the "biz" for a couple of years...
anyhoo....
for new readers here is the latest for Furmark....
FurMark 1.8.2 download from Guru3D.com

Rooster

 

Thanks DaneGR!

I've downloaded it and it works.

 

Good! You're welcome! I'm guessing you got the "Driver signing...." popup? Run some benchmarks if you don't mind, I'd like to see if there's a difference with this driver on the 445m.

 

Okay, installed the driver (was surprised to not have to reboot) and ran some furmark tests:

Results with the drivers and standard afterburner settings:



Results with afterburner settings (killaz's):



I do not have 3dmark so did not run test on it yet.