How to: Improve your XPS M1330 Cooling

Hello from Belgium!

I purchased my XPS M1330 in december 2007, specs:T7500 2.2 GHz, 2 GB RAM and yes 8400M GS graphics ;-)

Extremely happy with it until last week. Suddenly BSOD's, screen freezes and artifacts... all like described here and on the youtube videos, whitelines at start-up etc. Perhaps because summer kicks in now? Temperatures rising...

I read this topic through and did two things earlier tonight:
- update bios from A06 to A11
- installed new drivers 169.09 with modified inf file from www.laptopvideo2go.com

Since then, several hours, no issues it seems... fingers crossed...

Idle (Outlook, Explorer, etc running) temperatures with Hardware Monitor 1.10, cpu load 15-25%:
- CPU 51-55 degrees
- GPU 64-70 degrees

I should do some load testing to check load temperatures.
Aside from that, what do you suggest? Do the copper mod or for now with these idle temps wait and see what happens during the rest of the summer?

Thanks in advance!!

 

Just did some load testing:
100% cpu load, temps up to 85 degrees, fan kicks in, just up to 90 degrees then but it takes GPU temps with it to 80 degrees....
100% gpu load, after 1 minute GeoForms demo from NVidia temps went up to 97 degrees...

idle temps cpu 55-60 and gpu between 63-70

What do you suggest? Do the copper mod with these idle/load temps or wait and see what happens during the rest of the summer?

Thanks in advance!!

 

I dont know of what material the thermal pads are made of but because thermal conductivity k of thermal pads are typically lower than Cu, Al, any replacement using those metals are better for cooling the gpu than the stock thermal pads.
However, the difference in materials in contact with gpu will not get the same temperature decrease, as thermal properties varies with each element. In some cases where there is a combination of material, if material A contains %96 percent more than material B, material B heat dissipation is so negligible that the temperature decrease can be considered the same with using only material A.

Good question!

There are two types of heat transfer in computers
Conduction = heat transfer between solids (which depends of thermal conductivity k)
Convection = heat transfer between solid and a fluid (ex. air, water) (depends on convection coefficient h)


The gpu/cpu transfer heat via conduction to the Zalma heatsink, Zalma transfer heat via convection to the air around.

In conduction

Thermal conductivity measures how fast a material can transfer heat and specific thermal capacity measures how hot a material get when a certain amount of heat is transferred to it. In computer cooling, we want material to be good at heat transferring, but we don't want it to stack up a lot of heat. Aluminum has a good high k value, but also has a high specific thermal capacity. This means that the although aluminum will transfer heat efficiently, it will tend to "stack up" the heat inside. Copper, on the other hand, has a higher k value than aluminum but a lower specific thermal capacity, meaning that it will get much hotter than aluminum given the same amount of heat. conduction depends on the difference in temperatures. So copper getting hot easily actually helps the conduction to transfer heat faster.

Now in convection

Convection coefficient "h" measures how fast a fluid (air,water) can absorb heat from a solid (heatsink, person). Convection coefficient is dependent on fluid velocity (that is why there is wind chill). In the case of Zalma CNPS7000-ALCU the 92mm diameter fan is larger than the CNPS7000-Cu 84mm diameter fan. The AL-cu 92mm diameter fan enables more fluid (air) be in contact with the heatsink, increase the velocity of air and increase the convection coefficient, this in turns increase the heat dissipated by the heatsink.

This basically means that because the fan in the al-cu version is bigger and better than the CU version, the al=cu version cools better. The better fan in the ALCU version compensates for the disadvantages in thermal properties comparing to copper.

Assuming both have same geometry and same fan,, the copper version should be better cooling than the al-cu.


I obtained the specs of CNPS7000-CU at http://www.frostytech.com/articleview.cfm?articleid=1359&page=2

 

Hey, my pleasure!

75C is what I got max @stock speeds & I'm going to try a mild OC tonight. I did it to my original GPU (450/675) and stopped when I hit the thermal edge ( 104C) running Lost Coast...

What did you OC yours to?

CPU<->GPU interactity: are you saying that when you stress your CPU (via TAT or some Pi calculator, etc.) that you GPU stays at idle temps... really

Lastly, I don't run any standard application that causes my CPU cores to come close to 80. As a matter of fact, the cores only hit 73C during 3DMark's CPU tests, so I'm not concerned about CPU temps (and I don't think that there's any 1330 owner that has complained about CPU temps).

The 80-81C (pre-Cu mod figures) I posted above was with TAT, both cores loaded to 80% for over two mins. This will most likely never happen with real applications.

But, seeing as you have a thing for 80C I can add that when I upped the load in TAT to 85% per core (pre-Cu mod), the temps hit around 82C and the BIOS automatically downgraded the CPU internal clocks from 2200MHz to 1600MHz. This is the fail safe you are referring to.

Last but certainly not least, my own rule of thumb, based on the famous saying that a component's life is halved for every 10C, is to try to keep all my gear - be it in one of my tower PCs or my 1330 - running as as possible!

 

The GPU results are "standard" for the 1330 and thus you have the same problem as the rest of us: a potential GPU failure. You can wait it out & maybe your rig holds together or maybe it dies and Dell will replace the mobo and you can hope for the best again.

Or you can do the Cu mod, keeping in mind the responsibility is in your hands and you should be careful with the existing thermal pad so that you can, ah, "restore" things should you need the services of a rep down the line.

As for your CPU: it's hot. TOO HOT!!! I just got through telling Trebuin that no one's noted high CPU temps - but then you came along...

Clearly the heat dissipation of your CPU - Thermal paste - HSF is NOT OK. Either take it apart yourself and redo it or call Dell. In any case, avoid all stress-tests until you have done one or the other!

 

Great answer + immediate rep

I didn't realize that the two HSFs were different in size so I guess my theory was not quite on the mark...

Well, actually, it's not my theory, I read it - either at Zalman's website or in the original "shootout" but unfortunately I cannot find either...

In any event, thanks for sharing that - it's quite interesting. I wish I had been as interested when I hastily completed my two semesters of Physics but at the time, it was more of a requirement than of interest... young, dumb & full of... it

 

Here are my results, 15 hours after the MOD:

Ambient temp 26.6667 C (80 F); running XPSP3, bios A11, NVidia 174.31 from Dell. Important detail: I am using the laptop in my LAP. Because it is a LAPtop, and that is why I bought it. All reported temps below are MAXIMUM temps reached.

@idle (all services, browsing)
GPU 56 (before MOD 67)
CPU 44/44

3DMark Graphics 1
GPU 73 (before MOD 97)
CPU 63/67

3DMark Graphics 2
GPU 73 (before MOD 97)
CPU 65/68

3DMark CPU1
GPU 72 (before MOD 80)
CPU73/78

3DMark CPU2
GPU 73 (before MOD 80)
CPU 74/79

3DMark Grahics 3
GPU 75 (before MOD 101)
CPU 68/68

3DMark Graphics 4 (Deep Freeze)
GPU 74 (before MOD 104!!!!)
CPU 65/63

Intel TAT @ 85% after 2 minutes:
GPU 72 (didn't record before MOD results)
CPU 81/80 (before MOD was exactly the same)

I am blown away. Especially by the HUGE drop in the high-level graphics tests. It makes me feel almost joyful to think how a few good minds working together could solve this vexing problem. THANK YOU to all of you who have worked so hard on this. I really seriously hope that somebody from Dell is paying attention to this thread.

NOTES: I hadn't kept records of my 3DMark CPU temps, and post MOD I was a little concerned that my CPU temps might be running higher, because of bad application of AS. Luckily, I still had my before MOD Intel TAT results, and the before and after are exactly the same.

Especially for newbies who are planning to do the mod, I recommend running all the tests for CPU and GPU (3DMark and TAT) and keeping careful records BEFORE the mod, so you can double check yourself after, and make sure you haven't done something bone-headed, like forget to plug in the fan or apply the CPU thermal paste.

Also, when you apply the thermal paste, I would advise cutting your (hopefully expired!) credit card into a GPU sized strip. When I used a regular sized credit card I had less control when I was spreading the paste, and ended up with a pretty messy application. Once I made a smaller spreader, everything went great.

 

This is excellent. The ebay link has expired, but you can contact the seller directly at "[email protected]". I ordered my piece that way and received it three business days later, in the US.

I didn't see your revision until post mod, which would have prevented me from attaching my copper chip to the Heatsink instead of the GPU. Luckily, I managed to seat it properly anyway.

Tried to rep you, but was prevented from doing so as I recently repped for your "polls". Too bad.

 

Hey, congrats & welcome to the

"I-got-my-1330-under-control-with-the-CuMod" club :yes:

A rep for the guts -n- effort is in order too!

Your temps look like they're in line with mine, an amazing feat, considering your using the "Notebook" on your lap... My T60 has both the fan's i/o on the sides, so yes, you can sit it on your lap, but the 1330 is a no-no. Just get yourself a TV-dinner table-top (ah, with or w/o the beanbag option, lol). I use an IKEA plastic cutting board. Price, €1.99 ($2.99). The important thing is that it's BLACK. rofl.

Finally, I remember visiting Arctic Silver's website a year or so ago and they had changed their tune (for a short while, it seems...) and were suggesting that it's better to "bead" the paste onto the core and not spread it with a card. Having visited the site again, seems like they decided to go back to basics and use the ol' business card again.

I used the "bead" method 'cause it was the last thing I remembered reading, but in the end both methods worked


Btw, what processor do you have again? Merom (T7x) or Penryn (T9x)?

 

Your idea has been implemented in the revised guide. It now reads "Plastic Card (like Expired Credit Card) cut to 95mm long and 10mm wide. (shelleyevans' Idea)". I would keep the width of the plastic card shorter than the width of the chip to prevent accidental spills while spreading the thermal paste.

The eBay bidding has expired but the buying is still allowed. eBay states "This item has ended with Buy it Now". Thanks for telling us the time duration it takes for the shipping.

The price in US Dollars including shipping to the US is around 12 Dollars and some Cents (varies as per the day's exchange rate).

 

Thanks for the response!

Should I do the same CU mod for the CPU also then? is it the same size as for the GPU?

 

No need to!
the cpu seats directly on the Copper HS

 

I'm not even sure that you could do that, as I think the heatsink sits right on the CPU with thermal paste. On this board, everybodys' CPU temps are all in a safe range using just thermal paste. So I think the implied solution is to check and re-apply thermal paste to your CPU, and/or check to see if your heatsink is sitting properly on it. As Traveller said earlier, you could do this yourself or call Dell and get them to come and check it, as long as its still in warranty.

 

Yikes. That's a first for me!

Oops. Guess I don't read my eBay instructions as closely as these posts.

 

The IT staff at my office told me that the "bead" method resulted in people applying more paste than required. This resulted in the system heating up rather than cooling down due to uneven/excess application and in some cases burnt the motherboard/CPU due to the excess paste spilling on the circuits.

 

Thanks. I am happy to be here.

T7500 Merom.

As for the "LAP" discussion-- I do have a laptop desk/cooler which I purchased after I started having heat problems, but I truly hate it. I get steamed (no pun intended) every time I have to put an extra piece of equipment under my cutting edge slim and light laptop. I have NEVER had to do that with my previous laptops. Nor, in my humble opinion, should one have to. I'm not talking about putting it on a couch or a quilt-- I'm talking about two bony knees!

I'm going to assume that as long as my temps (which I will now monitor forever) are in a safe range, I am okay to use it that way.....?

 

As long as you do not block the ventilators, it would be good to use it however you want.

 

I've decided since I play tf2 on my m1330, I probably need to do this copper mod.

If for some reason things go south afterwards, could I put things back how they were? would the dell rep be able to tell?

Also could I get the copper cut to the correct size at just a hardware store or something? I feel uncomfortable buying from a "shoddy looking" company overseas.

 

Agreed!

Yes, but you have to be very careful when removing the pad. Mine was already half-way peeled off when I removed the HSF, so I figured I could just lightly "peel" the remaining half. Wrong! I managed to make a tear in mine but stopped just in time before tearing it in half... . Lao recommended using a razorblade and now I know why...

I know what you mean - I've never even bought anything from ebay before the shim but I figured I could risk the €7 ($12) and they do go through paypal. Not to mention I got it in less than two business days

 

so that uk company is actually legit?

Basically for the mod, I am putting the copper between the gpu and the heatsink/fan?

also, I'm still confused over exactly where the gpu is located in the m1330. Is it by the fan?

 

YEs, they ship really really fast. I was amazed about that too.

 

so that uk company is actually legit?

Basically for the mod, I am putting the copper between the gpu and the heatsink/fan?

also, I'm still confused over exactly where the gpu is located in the m1330. Is it by the fan?

 

I believe it. I never did like the bead method, but if AS said it, who was I to argue I myself applied a full "long" grain (instead of the half) and my own pics show that it was too much! It really is much easier to get the right amount with the card method.

I would have redone mine but the figures look good, so maybe I lucked out anyways. What makes me more nervous though is the angle that the HSF hits the Cu shim. There is a distinct gap on the side facing the Northbridge. Maybe you can look at this shot here and tell me if you agree with my thoughts of trying it again with a 2mm-thick shim or if I should stick with the 1.5, thanks

 

Have you even been to the first page of this thread? Check my sig for pics of the mod as well as GPU chip...

 

1. I feel rather fond of that "shoddy" company myself, and grateful for their speedy and excellent service-- I received a perfectly smooth, perfectly sized piece of copper in very short order for only 12.12 USD.

2. It's pretty obvious once you take the heatsink (which is connected to the fan) out: three little squares in a row, one on the far left says "NVidia", then the Northbridge (what in the world is that, anyway?) chip, then the CPU. Northbridge and GPU both use thermal pads, CPU directly on the heatsink.

 

@MPC: please let a friend who knows what he's doing do the Cu modd.

 

I never read the first page or saw pictures. I didn't know if the gpu would have any labeling on it either.

I have built plenty of desktops so I'm fairly confident I can perform this modification.

 

The Intel chipset is called that because it's a set of two chips, a northbridge and southbridge. The down -n- dirty definition:

Northbridge controls processor - memory - Graphics "communications".
Southbridge controls the i/o - storage, raid, USB, Firewire, etc.

I'm certain that Intel's diagram can do better justice

p.s. Here's one: the so-called "Mobile Intel® Graphics Media Accelerator X3100" is built into the Northbridge... . What I'm saying is that the Northbridge on the non-discrete 1330s is also responsible for graphics.

As a matter of fact, the Sony SZ series Notebooks offer *both* the "on-board" and "discrete" graphics solutions so that with a flip of a switch, you can have either 3D-processing power or an economical substitute.

Cool, huh... I love my 1330 but the SZ is the champ, hands down. Unfortunately, it has a price tag to match...

 

traveller your pictorial is very helpful - that is pretty close to what I was imagining

 

Glad it helped

 

Dell XPS M1330 - nVidia GeForce 8400M GS - Copper Mod - Step by Step Guide. This is actually a digest of ideas from successful mods.

 

I am more worried about the excess thermal paste falling off and shorting the circuits on your motherboard than the small gap. Excerpt from Arctic Silver 5 Instructions: "...There is a possibility that dust or metal particles and/or shavings carried by airflow inside the computer case could contaminate the compound and increase its electrical conductivity...".

The gap between the GPU and the GPU Heatsink, when the screws are properly tightened, is 1.8mm. This gap reduces to approximately 0.1mm with the Copper Sheet of 1.5mm and thermal pastes on both the GPU and the GPU Heatsink. The approximate 0.1mm gap allows for expansion of the Copper Sheet and prevents cracking the GPU.

The gap in your photograph seems like it is due to the uneven application of the thermal paste. Even if the gap is due to other reasons, the thermal paste and the limited contact points of the Copper Sheet are still doing their jobs as your GPU's temperatures have decreased.

FYI (You might find this interesting):

In many Dell XPS M1330 Motherboard Replacements, the existing Heatsink Fan and the existing Processor was reused with the existing thermal paste and in most cases the existing thermal paste did not get spread properly. Nevertheless despite less than 100% contact, the temperatures did not increase significantly. Their Processor will be damaged if the thermal paste was missing or is too thin at the center of the chip but that is unlikely. However, the little increase in temperatures will result in a faster death of their Processor and might even damage the Motherboard.

 

Thx for your observations. Yes, a 25C drop is as good as anyone else has posted. Just imagine the decrease possible with a properly-designed HSF (like the one in the 1530 )

The link was a little squirrely - who wrote that? In any event, every degree counts against your gear.

I'm going to do a little overclocking now to find out what the GPU (& Hynix 128MB HY5RS123235B FP-14 memory, rated @ 700MHz...) are really capable of, now that the temps are under control

Then I will really know how effective the Cu-Mod is

 

Whoah. No wonder I never understood anything until I started reading these posts.

I'll keep the SZ in mind for later, if and when the 1330 bites the dust....

 

Holy crap this topic got huge. I hadn't checked here in ages. I was reading through and thinking I'd update the guide, but looks like sinstoic beat me to it. Thanks!

HOLY CRAP, I made an impression, I recognize Traveller's avatar! A copper sheet and a thermal pad....

Man, I just sold my XPS M1330 so now I can't even retrofit my job with copper and cermique now that I have some cash...
maybe it's time to attempt a revival of my first XPS M1330...
*ponders*

 

I did another test for you and now it seems that time has improved the cooling. The CPU at 100% load now only bounces between 73-75C. The GPU Climbed from 65 to 68C and is staying there. I haven't tested the other way again.

My overclocked profile is 451/673...so not that high. I'll do another test on the GPU in a few hours.

 

Yeah, the mod's famous now!

Kudos to you and this mysterious zed fella with the er, "engineering" diagram

 

100% load... with TAT??? Both cores???

High enough
I just spent 1hr playing the Lost Coast level at 451/650 and I hit 75C, worst case. That's identical to the non-OCed run...

3DMark06 hit 74C, one degree higher than stock.

But come to think of it, my ambient's up by 2C today...

 

is there any other reliable place to buy the copper sheet cut? I haven't gotten an email back from that uk company in 2 days

 

i ordered an extra sheet if anybody wants one i'll charge you $7 shipped in the u.s.

 

Thanks for reminding us. Who *was* that masked man?

 

where can I buy the proper sized metal sheet? the uk store won't respond

 

You can order a custom cut copper 110 sheet, 1.64mm thick, .55 x .55 inches (they will only accept the cut in inches). You might even be able to call them on the phone and get them do give you the exact specs-- I only got as far as poking around online.

Note: this is not a recommendation. I ended up giving my hard earned $12.00 to the shop in the UK.

 

how long did it take the uk company to reply to your email?

 

Less than an hour. Maybe you caught them on holiday.

 

Checked the temps again using 3DMark 2006 for stressing the GPU on my XPS M1330:



Now it sits at around 47-48 when browsing.

Ambient temp is 25-26 degrees.

 

Just ordered copper, thermal grease, new M1330 motherboard.

Should be doing this mod again soon

 

Awesome! 69C max is music to [your] ears, I bet, hehe

 

HEhe! Yes it is. Too bad (or not) the laptop is for sale. )

 

I just ordered my copper

the guy was very nice