If Nvidia know the 8600 GT is faulty, why don't they fix it??

I understand that sometimes mistakes are made and early versions of products are less reliable, but Nvidia seem to know exactly what the problem with the 8600 is but make no attempt to fix it... how come?

 

It would cost them more money than it would cost them to make another card

 

This problem is old. The chance of getting a card what fails is less than 1%.
So you're around 7-8 months late with this thread.

 

thats good news then... cos I really like the look of the xps, but was just a bit worried about the overheating issues.

 

They make a ton at once, so if the manufacturing process is wrong there are going to be a lot of bad chips especially if the flaw takes a while to appear.

 

Overheating isn't really the issue with these cards, failure can be caused by repeated heating/cooling cycles.

 

http://www.theinquirer.net/inquirer...le-macbook-pros-have-nvidia-bad-bump-material

this article would have you believe that even the new generation is faulty.

thers just such a lack of info, its difficult to know what to believe and what not to.

conspiracy crap....

 

"Overheating isn't really the issue with these cards, failure can be caused by repeated heating/cooling cycles."

Overheating is the issue. If these cards never went over 65c like their supposed to they would never fail. Nvidia isn't to blame, it's the notebook manufactuer's faults. The GPU's are not supposed to operate in temperatures higher than 70c for any length of time. Desktop manufacturers have heeded that guideline all along and thus do not have overheating GPU's.

You can blame Dell and all the other vendors. When Nvidia publishes specs that say the upper limit is 90-100c it doesn't mean that manufacturers can have the GPU's operate in that range. It means that's the range that you should stay away from by about 20c or better.

Another problem is that once these GPU's sustain temps of 85-90c, the solder itself is weakening.

This is not Nvidia's fault. These are physical limitations that are not being addressed by Dell or any other notebook OEM. Look at the temperatures of a notebook made by someone like Killer Notebooks. Their top of the line machines have cooling systems that don't let the GPU go over 50c, even while being punished to the max for four hours. That is good engineering. Do the math.

These notebook OEM's have no business releasing systems that let the CPU and GPU climb to these ridiculous temperatures. Nvidia has been making GPU's for a long time. They know what they are doing. I think that what we have here is a witch hunt. It's Apple, Dell, Gateway, Sony, HP, etc. vs Nvidia. It's easier for all of them to point their finger at Nvidia rather than go back to the drawing board and redesign the cooling systems for their notebooks.

 

that 1% sucks up a if its you

 

http://news.cnet.com/8301-13924_3-10119277-64.html

clarification.

 

"Nvidia vehemently disagreed with the allegations, calling them completely untrue. The Inquirer's "initial analysis of problems with some of the older chips was already flawed," said Michael Hara, vice president, investor relations and communications at Nvidia."

Nvidia is being forced into agreeing to take the fall for this. They were just making graphics chips like they always have. It's all the OEM's against Nvidia. Nvidia is supposed to somehow overcome the physical limitations of printed circuit boards. Since they can't, well just look at their stock.

Nvidia will either succeed in lowering their trace widths, producing a smaller package, and producing less heat, or they could possibly go out of business.
They have been bullied into a corner. I personally hope they get out, because in my opinion, they have been making the finest graphics chips in the world.

But it really doesn't look good for them. It would cost the OEM's tons of cash to redesign notebooks so that they have real cooling systems. It's alot easier for them to make Nvida pull a rabit out of a hat.

 

right, and i suppose with the p4 chips intel was pushing the boundaries of pcb's?

i think you're barking up the wrong tree here.

 

"right, and i suppose with the p4 chips intel was pushing the boundaries of pcb's?"

Alright, rather than respond to this comment I'll say something more relevant.
Three things:
1. There are notebooks that have GPU's that don't go over 50c. They never have problems. They run beautifully for many years.

2. All of the problems are occuring in notebooks that have temperatures that are 80c and higher.

3. Above all, do you appreciate that nice warm 85c or higher temperature on your lap? How about that nice warm handrest?

Other vendors have used the same GPU's and had success. It's time for these OEM's to get their act together with their cooling.

Edit:
4. It's trully sad that it's 10:08 pm on New Year's Eve and I have nothing better to do than sit at a computer and argue about who's to blame for these hot *ss notebooks we have all purchased. Time for another beer.

 

i agree, i already started where are you from? its 0310hrs here in the uk.

im stuck in hull, which is practically a ghost town at the moment because its a student city and everyone's gone :|

 

Jacksonville, Florida. I used to have a life... no really. Hey speaking of heat, what kind of temps does that Quadro of yours max out at?

 

the critical temp is 107*c

it idles at 50ish, under heavy load its in the mid 70's

all temps in *c.

i think its pretty normal for a mid range GPU. i dont see how its gonna be 50ish under load! even the thinkpads, which are legendary for their thermal designs reach high 60-low70's under heavy load

 

Man, I can't believe that we put up with these temps. It's just gotten out of hand.

 

come on man, under moderate load the core2duo reaches about 50*c ish...and idle is in high 40's

 

Those temps seem reasonable. Maybe I am a little too demanding.

All that I can ask of these OEM's is to produce notebooks that have CPU's that don't pass 65c and GPU's that don't pass 65c. Then I would feel that they have done their job.

Edit: we have 1 minute left until new year. Happy new year my friend! Prospero ano nuevo!

 

its 0519 here in england now.

i had an inspiron 8600 which i bought in 2004, it had a radeon 9600, under load it was always in the 80's, in spite of having its own seperate fan....50 under load is a bit extreme, that manufacturer you quoted was probably designing it for overclocking.

 

"50 under load is a bit extreme, that manufacturer you quoted was probably designing it for overclocking."

I'm gonna have to disagree with that. I believe that they were designing it to be failsafe. With their specs there is no way you will break it down. Proper design go's hand in hand with overclocking. When the OEM design's it right, overclocking is effortless.

Note: we are talking about the killernotebooks.com exocutioner and it's supreme handling of temperatures.

 

yes but you have to work within space restraints. can you quote any other notebook with such low temps? not even the current generation, look at older generations.

if you look at their website, and take a look at who they list as their competitors, its clear they're targeting the extreme gaming crowd, who do overclock....saying they did it for safety and longer life is like saying a mercedes has good suspension so the car will be treated gently instead of saying its to make the occupants feel comfy

you're arguing that all manufacturers should aim for that, but unfortunately, there are trade offs to take into account.

the notebook you're praising is a 17 inch chassis.....cooling in a 17incher is much easier. thats why you dont see cards like the 8800/9800 in a 13.3 inch chassis.

 

You are definitely right about size constraints. Point well taken.I think that a good trade off would be a GPU that maxes out at 65c. I think that would be ideal.

I think that I brought up that particular notebook to point out that they managed to do that with a card that consumes twice as much power and thus produces twice as much heat. If they can do that, then I think these OEM's can keep the 8600 at 65c or below without weighing down the machine with a massive heatsink.

 

yea i agree that 65*c is ideal. you could game on your lap without problems.

thing is nowadays some manufacturers, in fact a lot of them use a single fan, instead of seperate CPU/GPU fans.

although, having said that, my old inspiron 8600 had seperate fans and gpu temps were still around 70 under load lol. but it gave me 5 years of service until i spilt beer on it.

if my precision M4400 is running in the 70's under heavy load, i wonder how much cooler it would be if they had used two fans.

 

"if my precision M4400 is running in the 70's under heavy load, i wonder how much cooler it would be if they had used two fans."

I'm going to take a guess here and say that 2 fans would make alot of difference. That is - two fans and also two seperate heat exchangers with separate heatpipes.

I've seen how on my M1530, while maxing out the CPU with ORTHOS, how the CPU drags the GPU temps up with it even though the GPU is doing nothing. That shared design is what I believe is responsible for this behavior.

It looks like that what is happening here is that heat is traveling through the heat pipe from the CPU to the GPU and heating it up. This may be one reason why undervolting is so effective at getting a stable setup. In my case, undervolting by just 150 milivolts achieved 10c in temps reduction.

That adds something to the mix - Nvidia is dealing with not only their own heat production, but also the heat being dumped on the GPU by the CPU via these shared cooling designs. Let's not forget that the heat generated by the northbridge chip is also a factor since it's also on this same heatpipe.