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    S-XPS 1645 AC Power Throttle Issue Investigation

    Discussion in 'Dell XPS and Studio XPS' started by Zlog, Nov 26, 2009.

  1. n3verm0re

    n3verm0re Notebook Consultant

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    -[Deleted]-
     
  2. Chris123NT

    Chris123NT Notebook Guru

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    No, the throttling is to do with power and not with thermal issues. When using throttlestop the machine draws over 100W during gaming and does not throttle. Using ThrottleStop with a 90W adapter will result in things going boom.
     
  3. reecepeart

    reecepeart Newbie

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    Lol! Boom. Guys I have a question if I run say a bluray or mkv video will this trigger the throttling effect? Like wise if I use Photoshop cs4.
     
  4. starrysummersky

    starrysummersky Notebook Enthusiast

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    Hey Unclewebb - Thanks for linking me into your ThrottleStop app. I just had a quick half hour session on Dragon Age and Crysis. With Throttlestop running and my 150w adapter plugged in, the performance is superb! No crackling noise from the speakers and I can run DA at the highest max settings with a smooth 40fps framerate, whereas before, I could barely run at medium settings and was only getting about 20fps.

    With Crysis, the game now autodetects 'HIGH' settings with Throttlestop running with the 150w adapter plugged in and I'm getting consistent 30fps - thats with 1280x720 resolution. Before Throttlestop, it was detecting 'MEDIUM' settings and I was getting stuttering 5 to 15 fps.

    I have a Core i7 XPS with an RGB LED screen and a 128GB SSD by the way. So, without getting too technical with scientific tests, Throttlestop definitely puts the performance of this laptop to where I expected it to be when I paid £1200 for it!

    I can hear the fans going a lot more now obviously but I'm also running a Zalman NC1500 cooling board underneath at full tilt. The laptop itself didn't feel overly hot after half an hour. slightly warm, but thats all.

    Thanks again for your hard work. I realize its only a temporary fix and Dell should really be the ones doing something about it long term, but for now, this will do me just fine!
     
  5. unclewebb

    unclewebb ThrottleStop Author

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    Another happy customer. Thanks for the review starrysummersky.

    reecepeart: I've added Clock Modulation monitoring to the latest version of RealTemp
    http://www.sendspace.com/file/u79b5p

    It's still beta so if you see any bugs let me know. I was working on adding ATI GPU temperatures to RealTemp just before I got sidetracked to these laptop issues. I thought the laptops were more important. The ATI GPU code still needs some polish.

    This new version of RealTemp will clearly show Clock Modulation throttling in the Thermal Status area as soon as it starts to happen. The Thermal Status area won't show anything if there isn't any modulation / throttling going on.
     
  6. atlstang

    atlstang Notebook Evangelist

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    Thats the important thing. With throttle stop the fans actually go on high and temps are very close to the same as they were before. With the 90w limitation the laptop is just crippled, when it has sooo much more power in it. I dunno who was smoking what at dell but its un acceptable that they do this.

    Glad you are having the same results as the rest of us. Its really amazing once the laptop is aloud to do what it can do.
     
  7. 2by4

    2by4 Notebook Consultant

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    Lets say that Dell does not give us an acceptable solution can ThrottleStop be used as a permanent solution with a 130W/150W adapter or is it to soon to tell.
     
  8. starrysummersky

    starrysummersky Notebook Enthusiast

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    Absolutely, Throttling issues aside, this laptop has a hell of a lot of potential. When you consider its actually quite a slim machine and isn't styled like a tank like some gaming specific laptops are, its actually perfectly sufficient for most people's gaming needs. Not to mention the fact that it tears through most non-gaming apps like a hot knife through butter as well.

    All this however, is only if Dell stop crippling it. Meanwhile we'll have to rely on maverick geniuses like Unclewebb!
     
  9. unclewebb

    unclewebb ThrottleStop Author

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    2by4: Turning off Clock Modulation just after the Dell bios turns it on is not rocket science. To do the deed is about 2 or 3 lines of C++ code and then I wrapped that in a pretty looking GUI so it would be fairly easy to use.

    Once I get some Core 2 feedback then I'm thinking about just adding this into RealTemp so you can monitor temps and keep Clock Modulation disabled at the same time.

    Knowing Dell, this is likely going to be the best option for a long time to come. The best thing about ThrottleStop is that it is not a CPU or memory intensive task. It takes a long time for it to consume 1 second of CPU time. You could say, it more than pays for itself.
     
  10. Chris123NT

    Chris123NT Notebook Guru

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    I see no reason why it couldn't be a permanent solution.

    @unclewebb: one thing I noticed with realtemp on my laptop is that it's only showing 3 of the 4 cores, but task manager shows all 8 threads and prime95 loads all 8. It's showing cores 0, 1 and 2 but not core 3.
     
  11. unclewebb

    unclewebb ThrottleStop Author

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    Chris123NT: Can you have a look in the About.. box of RealTemp and tell me what the exact version number is? It will be 3.50 RC_

    I think I finally found that bug recently. I hope.
     
  12. Chris123NT

    Chris123NT Notebook Guru

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    Sure I'll look as soon as I get home from work. I know it's doing it with 3.4 as well.
     
  13. unclewebb

    unclewebb ThrottleStop Author

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    I know there was an obscure bios setting on the Desktop boards that could prevent RealTemp from reading your cores correctly. RealTemp tries to order the threads in their correct physical order but that code can cause issues when a bios blocks it. I'll find some solution for you so just send me a PM with a screen shot so I don't forget.
     
  14. hifiger

    hifiger Notebook Enthusiast

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    Hi everyone! I'm about to use this incredible apps that uncleweb created but I would like to have a little more explainations for the procedure. What should I do first whichs other apps should I run with Throttlestop?

    1. I need a 130W powersupply
    2. Optimise cooling ( AS5 + Antec cooling)
    3. install throttle stop
    4. what next?
    5. ...

    Thanks !

    Ps: Do I need to plug other Keyboard and mouse like I red it before or it's working fine with the xps 1645 keyboard?

    Edit: sorry for my bad English
     
  15. Zlog

    Zlog Notebook Deity

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    Could the opposite of what throttlestop is doing be used to create an "ultra-battery-saving mode" ??

    Like force high modulation and set the screen brightness and other things to the minimum, maybe disable all but one or two cores?

    Would be a neat thing to see how much battery life we could squeeze out.
     
  16. unclewebb

    unclewebb ThrottleStop Author

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    4. Go play some games.
    5. Go play some more games and enjoy your laptop.

    The keyboard issue doesn't seem to happen to everyone so you might be fine. Try with and without a keyboard and see what happens.

    If you have a 130 watt power supply and ThrottleStop then you are good to go. The throttling built into all Intel CPUs once they actually get hot is more than adequate to keep your CPU healthy for many years.

    RealTemp lets you play with the Clock Modulation settings. Set that to 12.5% and set your Minimum processor state in the Control Panel -> Power Options to a low number like 5% and then check out your power draw from the wall using a Kill-a-Watt. On Core 2 CPUs, I found that having Clock Modulation disabled at idle gave better results than having it enabled and set to a really low number like 12.5%.
     
  17. n3verm0re

    n3verm0re Notebook Consultant

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    -[Deleted]-
     
  18. daraj

    daraj Notebook Deity

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    @unclewebb: Sorry I have been out of the loop for a while. What are your plans for releasing this app for public( if any) ?

    Thanks.
     
  19. eblock12

    eblock12 Notebook Consultant

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    If Dell doesn't fix this could probably add some extra logic to the program to make the throttle problem more livable. Like, only enable throttle overrides when on a/c power, or when Windows CPU usage is above a certain threshold (and do it per CPU). Also could run as a Windows service so user doesn't have to be admin.
     
  20. unclewebb

    unclewebb ThrottleStop Author

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    daraj: I'm still waiting on some Core 2 feedback. Anyone that wants to try ThrottleStop only has to send me a PM or an e-mail to the address in RealTemp to get a copy.

    eblock12: It wouldn't be too hard to add some extra features to ThrottleStop to make it more useful for users. The first version is just to see if it works and it looks like it does. :)
     
  21. ackeemiin

    ackeemiin Newbie

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    i ordered a i7 xps 16 as well in uk, learning from the ac adapter issue u guys mentioned, i have some questions. what kind of 130w ac adapter? is universal one fine with my xps 16? or i have to buy especial one for dell? can i buy that from offical website of Dell? cause i found a lot of ac adatpers which has more than 90w on the dell offical website but dunno which one to choose.....i even found 300w.....

    many thanks for help.....
     
  22. DeathWalking

    DeathWalking Notebook Evangelist

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    Well, the blog is updated...but not with a SXPS 16 post. Blech.
     
  23. razrkillr

    razrkillr Notebook Guru

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    Lol... new configuration. Not 4, not 6, not 8 but 5GB of DDR3 1333. You hear right a new configuration from dell has been released sporting an increase of 1GB from the 4GB for only 200 dollars. or feel free to upgrade to 6 for only 50 dollars more than the 5GB. hmm maybe the 5gb is 2.5GB x2 cards... which is plausable.

    85WHr 9 Cell Battery. what does whr mean and is it less than 90? can this be confirmed that 85 is less than 90?

    This years model has been down the drain... i cant even play left 4 dead without it crashing when this laptop gets a little hot. So if you can wait i would wait till next year in Q3 or Q4 when the i7 is out with the 32nm construction. It will require less power of course which is a good thing for Dell seeing as they dont want this laptop to get any warmer than it already can be. Since this is a XPS laptop i hope... hoping cuz i dont know what direction it will flow... hope that they will incorperate GDDR5. Q4 of 09 was the release lets hope Q4 of 10 will allow even the 5700 with the GDDR5 to ender it. but the 5700 with GDDR5 with have 1.3GHz clock. so 1333 DDR3 ram will work ok but hoping 1600Mhz will be out so the 8GB 1333 will be cheaper next year. It has been said that the 5000 series has better power management capibilities, this could mean for idle use or under stress. So if this has a less than awesome gaming GPU it will sure as hell be better than a Good n Decent Mainstream GPU. Dell can let Alienwares Handle the very top 5800s. If dell does go with the 5400s then at least its a jump from 4670. Dell can cram in a ipod nano type camera, i mean that is soo nice 3MP with high frames. The laptop doesnt like my face so i think the upgrade will help make the recognition software useable.

    Ill end this on a positive note. or ill try. i like that it has 2 out jacks for people doing music. I want a chicklet keyboard cuz this thing has some bleeding of the backlight. Maybe they can better orient it. I feel like the slotloading Bluray-CDROM will crush my disk :eek: . This laptop screams photo editing and the word Premium comes in mind with the design.

    It will be a dream come true if dell uses annonized alluminum for the glossy regions. They can make a flush glass trackpad.

    So if all goes well... then next year is worth the wait. If dell does all this they dont have to worry about the Envy. They just have to worry about marketing. Next year will have a Envy refresh hopefully so that if the envy has the RGBLED screen im all for it. Apples new tablet come april, ipods in september and who knows if apple will release a laptop with the i5. i dont mind running bootcamp if the specs are right for the price. :rolleyes: . If other laptops jump in the RGBLED there will be me buying them. :D

    Good luck with the throttling issues. Hopeing for 2010.
     
  24. n3verm0re

    n3verm0re Notebook Consultant

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    The phrase "stream of consciousness" fails to fully capture posts by razrkillr.
     
  25. Chris123NT

    Chris123NT Notebook Guru

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    Glad I'm not the only one that gets a headache from reading his posts :D
     
  26. jbartlettjr

    jbartlettjr Notebook Consultant

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    I agree. He reminds me of one of my oldest and dearest friends from childhood. The guy still "bakes" as much as he did in college, and his emails (and, frankly, face to face discussions) ramble like that. I think wacky weedus must retard the punctuation center of the brain.
     
  27. nizam1

    nizam1 Notebook Enthusiast

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    Can anyone help me in finding these 130W adapters online. I'm getting no help whatsoever from the Dell support here in India :(
     
  28. jakertberry

    jakertberry Notebook Consultant

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    So I thought I read somewhere that the 150w power supplies were not supported (not detected in the BIOS) with these laptops.

    Is the 130w enough? I'm going to get one of these power supplies, I just need to figure out if it's going to be the 130w or the 150w.

    I look forward to testing (and donating!) ThrottleStop.
     
  29. BradatDell

    BradatDell Company Representative

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    Our engineers have been in direct contact with a few customers who have reported this issue. From their initial findings this issue will not be resolved by using a 130 Watt AC adapter, please note that the continued use of a larger adapter could potentially damage components. We will post an update on our Direct2Dell blog as well as this thread once we have more information. We have updated this on the Dell forum as well.

    Regards,
    Brad
     
  30. Ch00kz

    Ch00kz Notebook Consultant

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    starrysummersky has used a 150W with his 1645.

    Also I'd like to really thank unclewebb for this. It has given me happiness in this festive season that the laptop I ordered will more or less function as desired :).

    Again I ask, any testers of ubuntu with this laptop RE: The throttling?
     
  31. hifiger

    hifiger Notebook Enthusiast

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    No it's not 2,5GBx2 it's 1gb + 4gb
     
  32. unclewebb

    unclewebb ThrottleStop Author

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    If you like to sit around and run Furmark and IBT or LinX at the same time then a 150 watt power adapter isn't such a bad idea. For most real world usage, the 130 watt adapter seems to be more than enough when running ThrottleStop.

    What happened to the big Dell announcement today? Did I miss it? :)
     
  33. atlstang

    atlstang Notebook Evangelist

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    heres the quote to save the trip to the thread.

    "Our engineers have been in direct contact with a few customers who have reported this issue. From their initial findings this issue will not be resolved by using a 130 Watt AC adapter, please note that the continued use of a larger adapter could potentially damage components. We will post an update on our Direct2Dell blog as well as this thread once we have more information.

    Regards,

    Brad"

    Yeah not holding my breath.
     
  34. eblock12

    eblock12 Notebook Consultant

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    When I talked to a Dell rep on this issue they informed me it would be fixed by a BIOS update and that Dell was working with Intel on testing it. They estimated the availability around the 15th, is this still the case?
     
  35. Ch00kz

    Ch00kz Notebook Consultant

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    OK then they are using a 150W adapter? Because a 90W cannot power the system....
     
  36. gaah

    gaah Notebook Deity

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    We are still waiting for the official announcement on the Direct2Dell blog. The day isn't over yet.
     
  37. atlstang

    atlstang Notebook Evangelist

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    Yeah if theyre keeping the 90w theyre not fixing the problem.

    hopefully he is mistaken. Either its going to be like the lattitude situation or their engineers are realllly realllly incompetent.
     
  38. Chris123NT

    Chris123NT Notebook Guru

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    I can't believe they're trying to say a 130 watt adapter will damage the system, that is utter BS for more than one reason.

    First reason is the system will only draw what it needs at any given moment, it's not going to sit there and draw 130 watts all the time, it only will if it needs it (and you have throttlestop enabled to get around the 90w restriction in the bios)

    Secondly, remember the older Inspiron 9300's and 9400's vs the XPS M170's and M1710's? What did you have to do if you wanted to upgrade the video card? That's right, use a 130 watt power adapter. I don't recall hearing about any of those motherboards suddenly exploding...
     
  39. gaah

    gaah Notebook Deity

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    I've said it before' I'll say it again: nobody has estblished a logical substatiated evidence yet. Noone here has access to the systems firmware or how Windows operates and all these issues can also be caused by software misconfigurations.
     
  40. Chris123NT

    Chris123NT Notebook Guru

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    No, the power throttling is definitely in the bios and it's based on a policy that does not allow the system to draw more than 90 watts, hence why using Throttlestop fixes the issue, because it allows the system to draw the power it needs to max out the CPU and GPU.
     
  41. sleey0

    sleey0 R.I.P. AW Side Topics

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    Ok, but do you know if the caps, resistors, etc are rated for more than what the current adapter puts out?

    I don't...
     
  42. atlstang

    atlstang Notebook Evangelist

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    hes been say this the whole time. either he isnt reading this post, or trying to start something. we have/had un deniable proof that this system draws more then the 90w need to run properly. 100-110watts when gaming on my low end system.

    A Bios update wont cure this, throttlestop proves this. Really hope this guy from dell is 100% wrong, but its not looking good.
     
  43. unclewebb

    unclewebb ThrottleStop Author

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    You guys will be happy to see this Dell post on the Alienware thread:

    http://forum.notebookreview.com/showpost.php?p=5628493&postcount=293

    Waiting for Dell to fix something can take an awfully long time.

    Come on gaah, get up to speed on this subject. I think we now have overwhelming evidence showing exactly what the problem is and how to fix that problem.
     
  44. eblock12

    eblock12 Notebook Consultant

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    Maybe we can start getting hardcore and reverse engineer the BIOS. Searching for WRMSR instructions would seem to be a good place to start. :p I think it would be good to establish why it throttles when it does, if its some thermal table or something else.
     
  45. atlstang

    atlstang Notebook Evangelist

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    Thank goodness for your utility. Hopefully they will treat the xps 16 like the alienware. They really should get some better engineers over there, or something.
     
  46. eblock12

    eblock12 Notebook Consultant

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    Yeah, by design games will drive the CPU and GPU to 100%. And as games become better written to take advantage of multiple cores, the problem will get worse. I don't know about what they're seeing with the alienware, but in our case, CPU getting throttled to an effective clock speed of 133mhz in virtually any modern game seems like a pretty obvious issue.
     
  47. atlstang

    atlstang Notebook Evangelist

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    Dont forget people buying rgbled screens etc will have even worse performance compared to the cheaper system. Never mind making that expensive upgrade to the 820qm almost useless. I agree with the games statement, and general applications in general. For a laptop id like to last 4-5 years, could be a big issue down the line.

    The max power i can seem to pull from my configuration was around 129w -130w. But other people with higher end system can be all the way to 146w. What a mess.
     
  48. Ch00kz

    Ch00kz Notebook Consultant

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    Wouldn't the fact that the laptop performs on battery suggest that it is getting that wattage out of the battery anywayz? Therefore the Mobo shoulhd be able to take it?
     
  49. eblock12

    eblock12 Notebook Consultant

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    It does throttle on battery though, it's just not as pronounced.
     
  50. DeathWalking

    DeathWalking Notebook Evangelist

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