S-XPS 1645 AC Power Throttle Issue Investigation

Hey ... was looking forward 2 buy the 1645... but throttling issue!! how bad is it shall i go for the 1640 or m15x.. or its rather not very bad and everything works fine with a 130 watt PA-4e and throttlestop (thnks to unclewebb).

Whilst playing games does the throttling kicks in.. or is it.. just there always....

 

In general, the throttling issue should only affect games. You can workaround by reducing display brightness, playing on an external monitor with laptop display disabled, playing on battery, or getting a larger a/c adapter and running throttlestop. It doesn't affect all games equally, I think it depends on if the game is more CPU-heavy or not.

 

Hello, CPUZ says that my ram frequency is at 670mhz and it stays at this frequence. Is it normal ? Anybody knows why? Thanks
EDIT: ok I understand it's normal

 

Nothing on D2D

 

As I said in a previous post the best way to get this problem solved is for everybody to return their laptops back to Dell.


As I posted before you are within your legal rights to return the laptop even after 21 days.

If everybody did this the problem will be solved or the laptop will be withdrawn from sale.

It may be the only way as Dell have a history of not solving serious problems like the E6400.

Dell will not take this issue seriously unless it it effecting their profit.

I'm sorry to say this but its the truth.

Simple as!

 

How are you making this determination?

 

thewhitewizard: The M15x has throttling issues. If you head to their forum they just came up with a fix using Rivatuner to prevent the GPU from dropping down to 2D clocks and killing performance. Any laptop you buy is a crap shoot. There are a lot of unfinished products being sold. It's up to the end user to work out the bugs and to make sure that their laptop can deliver the promised performance.

 

Have an estimated dd of 1/21/10, and talked to Dell - they are shipping the PA-4e adapter to me with the laptop - without additional cost. She had two in her system that they are willing to swap out, the correct one is Part#310-8275, which is the PA-4e.

 

wbglider: Keep in mind that a 130 watt PA-4E adapter by itself will not fix the throttling problems. Dell needs to update the bios to support this adapter or you will still have to depend on a third part utility like ThrottleStop. At the present time, a 130 watt adapter is limited to a maximum of 90 watts by the bios. At least you were able to get a 130 watt adapter up front so you are half way there.

 

Thanks very much unclewebb, I'll be sure to take advantage of your ThrottleStop until Dell updates the bios. Rep for that!

 

Hello everybody
I received my studio xps 1645 today, with ssd 128 gb, wled and 720 cpu.
I have read all the 181 pages on this thread and i wanted to test my own laptop and come with some proof that let me send this XPS back to dell. Problem is a bought it on my company and therefore i loose my legal right to just send it back withouth proof. I need to get proof of this laptop being not what it said in our "terms and condition".

So back to topic:
I downloaded prime95, fumark, cpuid and hwmonitor. I put the ac adapter in use and did the prime+fumark at the same time. The cpu directly downclocked from 1.6ghz to 300-600 mhz. There is the throttling right?

But when i took out the Ac adapter and put it on only battery, it also downclocked when i put prime +fumark. But now it only downclocked to 1200 mhz.

I got the laptop on high performance even at battery use.

Any thoughts?

 

If you're ever at something below 1596MHz on the i7-720QM during Prime95, it's throttling.

Unless, obviously, you are telling it to throttle by using settings in ThrottleStop or the Power Management.

~Ibrahim~

 

i've been reading this thread but can't find anywhere where someone has specified what throttle stop settings they use?

 

Talked to Dell about the throttle issue. I told them about the problems I was having playing games, and my rep was convinced it is not a 90watt power issue.

I tried to get them to send me a 130 PA-4E but the guy wouldn't do it. Anyone know how I can get this from DELL?

He also had me do diagnostic tests (obviously these were fine) and finally said the "hotfix" solution from other Dell complaints was to go to the ATI Control Center and uncheck the POWERPLAY setting.

Anyone know why this would work?

 

It doesn't work. They just BSed you to keep you quiet.

For maximum gaming performance it takes more than 90 watts. The supplied 90 watt adapter is not adequate. To stay within the 90 watt power envelope, these computers are designed to slow down (throttle). This will reduce your gaming performance.

supertwit: The settings to use in ThrottleStop depend on what adapter you have. When gaming, if you have a 130 watt adapter, you can set the Clock Modulation in ThrottleStop to 100% so you get 100% of the performance you paid for and you can also click on Set Multiplier and adjust that to the highest value.

ninjagrisen: Software that reports super low MHz is usually not working correctly on these new CPUs. Give i7 Turbo a try and post a screen shot of it. It's included in the latest ThrottleStop download. If you don't check the Clock Modulation box in ThrottleStop then it will be in monitoring mode and will show you if Clock Modulation is being used to slow down your computer. It should report 100% all of the time. If it doesn't, your computer is being throttled. You can check the log file option now so you'll have something to send to Dell.

 

Hmm okay. Do you think this is enough proof for send back the laptop?

Can you tell me where exactly u change the power management settings to 100 whatever u use ac adapter or battery (always 100%).

Did 3dmark06 2 times also, same result with or without ac adapter:
With ac adapter:
Fastest system
3DMark Score
7173 3DMarks
SM 2.0 Score
2546
SM 3.0 Score
3119 21504
CPU Score
3098
Without ac adapter
3DMark Score
7192 3DMarks
SM 2.0 Score
2541
SM 3.0 Score
3122
CPU Score
3159

Btw its never below 1596 when i only use prime55 its only gets very low when i use both prime55 and fumark at the same time. Thats not what it should be like right?

EDIT: One more question, The speedstep in bios? Is that something u should disable ?

 

Sorry for spamming the forum but i dont know much about this things
Can i use the throttlestopper without the 130 W adapter?

 

The Control Panel -> Power Options is where you can make adjustments:



That screen shot is for Vista but Windows 7 is very similar.

 

ThrottleStop can easily cause your computer to draw WAY more than a 90 watt power supply can feed it. Power usage as high as 146 watts has been reported while using ThrottleStop. I certainly can't recommend anyone use ThrottleStop with a 90 watt adapter unless you know what you're doing and monitor power consumption with a Kill-a-Watt meter or similar. Make absolutely sure you don't go over 90 watts or you will likely damage your power adapter.

 

Thanks alot for the fast answer. Do u know any programs that monitor the power consumption?

For the reply on the power management question. Then i have the correct settings.

 

My experience.

AC plugged (90W):




Battery:



You can see that in addition to cpu throttling there's a very light load on gpu in AC use, even if it doesn't throttle (locked at 675 MHz).

Gpu loads fully on battery use.

Sorry for resolution, it's not perfectly readable (gpu load in the fifth field from top) but i didn't want to post huge images.

 

The only accurate way to measure the total power consumption of your computer is with a Kill-a-Watt meter or similar. Software might be able to estimate power consumption of your CPU but that doesn't take into account what hard drive you're using, what GPU you're using, or the screen or many other factors. You have to measure power consumption at the wall. If you want maximum performance out of one of these laptops, a 130 watt power adapter is not an option. If you are not a gamer you might be fine with a 90 watt adapter but when gaming or loading both the CPU and GPU at the same time, these computers need more power than a 90 watt adapter can supply. We can only hope that Dell realizes and admits to this some day.

danello: You can use www.imageshack.us and upload a full size image and then just post a thumbnail to the original image so it is easy for users to click on it and then we can clearly see the details. Your details are very obvious though even with a slightly blurred picture.

 

I just got my replacement laptop for their "capture", im not impressed. Be wary, as im not impressed what so ever. The keyboard seems brighter on the old one, and the screen is pathetic.

current laptop is an lg screen (LGD0215). this replacement screen is AU011ED in device id its just awful when side by side. If i known this i would not agreed to it. Is it easy to switch screens?! is their a manual or something to show how!? i know its off topic, but im a bit bummed and any links etc would be great.

Not happy :-(

 

Are you legally obligated to return your original laptop? If not, just return the replacement one. I sure as hell wouldn't return my laptop if the one I was getting in return was worse in quality.

Are they keeping your captured one permanently or just temporarily while they investigate?

 

Something I've noticed while reading the most recent posts here is that at some points, throttling and clock modulation were used interchangeably by some yet it seems they're not the same thing. Anyone care to explain the difference? Or are they the same?

 

If you make a big enough fuss, you can probably get the original laptop back post-investigation. You thought this laptop was only a loaner, you put a lot of work into customizing setting on the old one, etc.

 

Yes, i know, but i thought that an image would have been better than a thumbnail, especially for lazy users.

I didn't consider they could have been so blurred, i resized them not so much.

Anyway, i saved them this blurred way overwriting the original.

Anyone who knows this tools could see what i mean...maybe...or maybe not?

 

unclewebb,

do you have any idea what percentage I might be able to run ThrottleStop with while using a 90 watt adapter...i would like to take advantage of the logfiles without crossing that marker to see what's going on with my comp

do ratios work?

100% = ~140 watts
64% = ~90 watts

______

ANYONE, IS DELL WILLING TO SWAP YOUR ADAPER?

 

I just called them for returning my Dell. But they kept asking me why. When I told them the problems going on here, they said they would be happy to send me 130W adapter for free and they will reset my 21 days policy, if the new Bios is not coming out and the the problem has not been fixed, i can send it back again.

Should i return it or just take this deal?

Thanks

 

Take the deal. I am in the same boat. I want what I paid for. I will try and get an adapter shipped out and a new 21 day window to see how the new BIOS change plays out.

 

Just take it.

 

DELL will never fix it right. Period. What they did with the throttling is not a mistake its a policy they are taking with these i7 cpus to control the huge heat they generate. Now they could have created a second fan and left the CPU at full speed but again its bad engineering. Instead they crippled the BIOS intentionally to 90Wto control the heat. I don't think their engineers are dumb to not notice this error if it was an error. I will wait until the i5 and i3 comes out and see what will happen with the new xps hopefully they will not funk it up. Just my 2 cents.

 

I was reading the HP Envy Owners thread last night, because I am considering returning the Dell and going with it, and it sounds like they are finding the opposite issue. They are seeing the multiplier locked at 7 on battery, but will hit 12 on AC, loaded.

 

Throttling is sort of a generic term that refers to all of the different types of slow down that can occur to a computer.

The two main types that effect the 1645 series are multiplier throttling and changes to clock modulation which will also significantly slow down your computer.

The Alienware M15x has GPU throttling issues where the GPU can slow down significantly. That doesn't seem to be an issue here.

You can run ThrottleStop in monitoring mode and it won't have any effect to your performance or power consumption. Edit: Don't click on the Turn Off button. Just uncheck all of the options and then ThrottleStop will monitor your CPU without changing anything. In the future I plan to add more items to the log file so it is all together in the same log and will be easier to see exactly what's going on.

jdsnov73: You better tell the HP guys about ThrottleStop. It can be used to keep that multiplier from sagging down on battery power.

 

Thnks.. unclewebb for explaining... so Can I push the laptop to its full potential by using throttlestop(thnks again I'll be donating as soon as i get my xps). Are there any heat issues related to this or is it just fine. Can I use throttlestop 24/7 whithout damaging the laptop or the throttling doesn't effect normal browsing and application which do not require much of CPU or GPU power (i.e using throttlestop whilst gaming & Heavy applications only). I have ordered my studio xps 720 i7 1080pRGB LED 500 gb 7200 rpm dell 1520 wireless n 4 gb ddr3 1333mhz... delivery date on 20 Jan. But I am being sent 90w from dell.. Shall I call them now or let the laptop arrive first and then call them up to replace my 90w with a 130 w PA-4e.

 

Unclewebb; Where should it be reporting 100% in i7 Turbo?
Also, what is the Load filter? It is set to 90% by default - but apparently could be edited/changed to any other figure?

Many thanks

 

In i7 Turbo, the C0% should be showing 100.00% on all 8 threads when running 8 threads of Prime95 Small FFTs. If it shows less, that's throttling. If it shows an i7-720 sagged down using a 7.000X multiplier at full load; that's multiplier throttling. An i7-720 should show a minimum multiplier of 12.000 at full load. An i7-820 should show a minimum of 13.000. When the CPU and GPU are both fully loaded, first the multiplier sags down and then Clock Modulation also starts to further throttle your CPU internally. Both of these reduce overall performance.

The filter box just lets you decide what data gets included in the Minimum and Maximum boxes. If you set that to 75% then anytime the C0% averages 75% or above, then the multiplier data will show up in the Min / Max area.

 

Heat is not a problem, 80° Celsius (on cpu, gpu and chipset) are not so much and with some thermal paste you'd get even some degrees less.

Could anyone with the 130W adapter + throttlestop post max temps reached (maybe during a long gaming session), please?

 

Here are my result using first AC adapter then battery going prime55, fu mark at the same time. With throttlestop and i7 turbo. What do u guys see? My results are not better with battery:S
http://piclair.com/4ge1m (adapter)
http://piclair.com/jg2xy (battery)

thanks!

 

Both pictures show multiplier throttling. A 7X multiplier while on the adapter is worse than the 8X multiplier on battery power. There is no clock modulation throttling going on. The Set Multiplier option in ThrottleStop is designed to fix this but only if you have the appropriate 130 watt adapter. That would keep your multiplier at a steady 12X which is a 50% improvement over 8X and a 71% improvement over 7X. Will you notice a difference when gaming? Definitely.

 

I called them back and told them that I would take the deal. They told me the 130W Pa-4E is not recommended !! and it might harm the system. So, if i insist using it and later something wrong happens because of this 130W one, you might be unable to return without extra charge and might not include in the warranty. I even told them that some people have been using the adapter without any problem and if this adapter might cause trouble to system, why you still sent it to them without warning them. They said that they have told those people already but they insisted getting it. They also have put the record stating that those people have requested to use this not-recommended AC adapter for the future investigation

I also asked them which adapter you will recommend, but they said NONE except the current 90W!!!! What the?

Now , should i return it or take a risk

 

I'm on the phone with XPS support right now...I'm getting the same story!
They are refusing to acknowledge the issue exitsts and want to do more updating of some random drivers!

This is crazy.

 

The above statement is a bold face lie by dell, they have sent me the 130W adapter for free with out telling me the statement in the quote above. As a matter of fact I sent an email stating that could I have an engineer send me a email with the approval for using this 130W adapter and they have still yet to answer it, and that is why I sent it back. Once again this is a totally false statement by dell as they never stated this to me.

BTW: I did all my communicating by email and have all the proof in my save emails to prove this as well.

 

I switched the screens, wasted about 2 hours. But all is well now. Im just gunna send the old one in, and be done with it. Not going to fuss with them anymore honestly, unless i need too. I upgraded the old laptop hd so i just put it in this one, so nothing is lost lol. definitly more time then an easy swap. I cant believe they have 2 different screens like that, the LG is amazing!! what ever this other one is awful and not very bright. Quality control?!

Whats weird is the WEI score went up from 6.8 to 7.0 on the cpu. This is the same HD and everything. odd!?

uncle webb, i havnt seen modulation hit very much in tf2 or torchlight that ive been playing recently with your logging. But the fps are nearly doubled with throttle stop running. Must be the max multiplier option of yours doing the trick?!

 

You should run an i7 Turbo log file at the same time. Maybe your multiplier improvement is 100% from a throttled 7X to 14X or who knows?

 

***I HAVE THE OFFICIAL DELL SOLUTION***

After spending nearly 3 hrs on the phone with dell tech and cust support, I was informed that the DELL studio XPS 1645 is NOT A GAMING LAPTOP.

I told them if that is their answer then to transfer me to someone who can take mine back for a refund so I could go to another manufactuer that does have gaming laptops. This tech transferred me to an educated supervisor.

After FINALLY getting to speak with a "supervisor" of some sort who admits that DELL has no solution.

He stated:

"We will not send you a 130 watt adapter. We have no idea what is causing this issue. Our only troubleshooting efforts deal with the PowerPlay option on the ATI catalyst control."

I was assured they are working on this issue and that nobody is authorized to replace the 90watt adapters. He said he has read these forums and understands the issue, but they have no idea how to fix it. He set up a call-back for next week and promised to call if they get any solution or 1 week from today, whichever comes first. I thanked him for being the first person to admit that DELL doesn't know how to fix this.
OFFICIALLY: We must wait for the DELL engineers to come up with an option.

So, what do ya'll think?

 

I think Dell are never going to solve the throttling issue because its a built in issue which they have purposely contrived as some people have mentioned already. Luckily, so far, ThrottleStop seems to solve the problem for me and I'm getting supersmooth fast framerates at max settings on my games with ThrottleStop running at max with a 150w adapter. The adapter runs fairly hot to the touch but nothing too crazy. The highest temperature I've got after a 3 hour session on Dragon age with all settings maxed out was 94 deg c on one of the cores. I guess thats pretty hot, but the laptop seems to be able to cope. This is with a Zalman cooler running underneath at full speed.

 

I gave throttlestop a try and didn't do anything for us, unfortunately

 

BINGO! There is no "flaw" that Dell doesn't know how to fix. They put the limitation in the bios themselves. The only plausible workaround would be to find someone with a lot of bios hacking experience to decompile it and remove that limitation. They have done the same thing to the Alienware M15x but to a lesser degree - it only throttles when the CPU/GPU are both under load. I've used Rivatuner as a workaround for M15x owners.

I think Dell is under a lot of pressure by companies like Asus and Acer that routinely cut corners to offer similar performing laptops at a fraction of the price. Quality has been on a steady decline in recent years and I don't see that trend changing, especially with this economic climate. Companies will continue to cut corners to create a product. For all we know, the motherboards in both the M15x and SXPS 1645 may not be designed to handle heavy gaming loads due to a cost cutting decision made by some bean counter somewhere. The Dell engineers are thus left with their hands tied and you end up with frustrated customers like us.

That's my theory on the situation and I think because of things like this, Dell will just end up losing more marketshare to these budget companies and then all of us will be in a world of hurt. Because trust me, if you think Dell is bad, wait until you've owned an Asus or Acer, those things are pure garbage.

 

@all

The 130W adapter thing is definitely hit and miss. The only help we can offer: try again. Not much else to it, I don't think? Unless I'm missing some special phrase that you need to say?

And, trust me, the representatives don't know squat about this. Trying to it explain it to them is like trying to explain gravity to someone. They just don't understand.

@ninjagrisen

The 3DMark scores are great. Show your company or whomever the Furmark/Prime95 throttling and hope someone there has half a mind to understand it.

@atlstang

Damnation! I think there are service guides online, though, of how to replace, but that is not your responsibility at all. Ugh, this whole "capture a customer's" idea is inane! There is NO point, just take one off the STUPID assembly line.

@danello

Hit Print Screen, open up Paint, right-click paste, crop, save, Photobucket.

~Ibrahim~