S-XPS 1645 AC Power Throttle Issue Investigation

Probably Dell's built-in protection mechanism...

You probably don't need this anymore, but I made a screenshot so I might as well use it. Mine says jan 6th:

 

A couple of days ago i sent an email to the michael_dell e-mail adressess named a few pages back.

So I got a phone call regarding the email I sent, worryingly he had no idea what I was talking about regarding the throttling issue and seemed to completely didmiss it and kept thinking it was an overheating problem. I asked if he had any other complaints about this and he said no. I told him about this website and he said he would look into it but said he hadn't heard of it and said he didn't know of any future planned bios updates or fixees.

I've also got a flickering rgb screen which i reported 10 days ago and spent £120 to upgrade to next day in home warranty to get a get a phone call the next day to say the screen is out of stock and it will be a couple of days. I said that was ok, not much else I could say. Now this guy who phoned me yesterday is telling me the screen won't be in stock till the end of the month.

Raging!!!

 

I got a call from these people also when I sent email to Micheal Dell. These guys are RS( resolution Specialists) I don't think they would have all the technical information like technical support( Not in anyway praising DELL tech support ) The guy i spoke with was clueless technical wise. I don't think he would know anything about BIOS release dates.

 

Next thing you know is that the new Bios will disable the TS application. How about that.

 

Hi all

My SXPS 1645 is going to come in the next few days (i7-720 and the rgbled). After coming across this forum and reading about the whole shenanigans about Throttling. i decided to register and ask for an opinion about my dilemma in regards to this issue. Shall I:

a) Keep my laptop and hope this saga comes to an end

OR

b) Return the laptop as soon as it comes without even opening the packaging and testing it.

I'm not much of a gamer but mainly use it for word or watching films.

Any opinions much appreciated.

 

If you don't use the machine to play games (and even if you do to a certain extent), the machine is excellent as is. There's really not much need to return it.


palm pre new news in 3 hours time!

 

Personally, if you have any desire to game, I'd return it now.

 

I am slightly puzzled by this.

The situation as i understand it.... when running off the battery the system works as its suppose to. And this is also the case when using TS and a 130W adapter? Not ideal I know, but if you can get dell to send you the adpater for free then you have a system that works to its full potential, correct?

If thats not the case, please let me know and I will be sending mine back as soon as it arrives!!

 

It sucks big time and not to mention upsetting that you spend this much time and money on a laptop you assumes its going to work perfect without any problems. then you realises that Dell comes out with a substandard one. Honestly such a waste. i am leaning towards returning it and getting a HP especially after CES announcements.

 

Well in order to get it to work near correctly, each time you game or do graphic intensive tasks. you have to obtain a 130w or better adapter. Then when your ready to run the applications. Start throttlestop, close the screen to sleep the computer and open it up again to bring it out of sleep. Finally you can play games, even then modulation might stutter the game for split seconds before throttlestop has a chance to disable it again. That and it is unkown what a 130w will do to the laptop in the long run.

A lot of hassle for whats supposed to be a functioning laptop? Considering the C2D will run games etc faster on a stock system.

If you plan at all to use the graphics card for whatever purpose, there is usually cpu use to go along with it. It is likely you will be affected by this issue. So if you ever in the future plan on making use of the 4670 in anything graphics wise, and dont want to go through this mess, id say return it. Or return it because you could get a lower end laptop that has the same performance out of the box.

 

Ok, well I'll see what dell come up with over the next week or two although agree with others on here that a bios update on its own is not going to fix the issue. I'm hoping that with the bios update and a 130W adapter (supplied for free by dell or not) it will work as it's suppose to but I might be living in a dream world....

If it turns out I am, I'll choose the blue pill and return it straight away!!

 

ThrottleStop 1.77
http://www.sendspace.com/file/gnkg7e

Whenever the above link doesn't get you the newest version then you need to clear the cache in your internet browser. Firefox is bad for this issue.

Use the menu item Tools -> Options... -> Advanced -> Network and then click on the Clear Now button if you're using Firefox.

fr0x: I'm not able to recreate your problem. You need to have the ThrottleStop folder located on your hard drive in a location that you have both read and write permission to. If so then ThrottleStop should be able to save and read your preference for it to start up automatically. I'll go play around with ThrottleStop to see if I can figure out what problem you're having.

Mitchell2.24v: I look forward to some more of your testing. One user has reported that after a clock modulation incident, the first thread returns to 100% while the rest of the threads are sitting at 87.5% for a long, long time. Does that sound familiar? I'm betting that's another bios issue. Is this an "accident" or a clever way to try to cover up the throttling that is going on? Dell knows but they'll never tell.

 

I put again the question, with an appendix: Dell sells power supplies up to 210W (for Precision M6400 and Alienware M17x). Would it damage anything in there?

 

If you were given the option to drink water from a huge container would you drink it all because its available or you would drink whatever amount you need? Same thing laptop it will draw the amount it asks for as long as it has the same voltage.
So the answer is no and it has been discussed earlier.

 

Thanks for pointing out, again. I know it's been discussed before, and I completely agree with you. But:

1. It was discussed only for 130W, not 210W;
2. Some users reports of dead battery when switching from power supply to battery with high loads;
3. I'm a developer, not an electrician

 

I just received a dell executive office phone call after sending an email to [email protected] last night.

The basics of this conversation were:

1. the guy i spoke with is not technical
2. he won't send me a different power adapter

So that's that. I'm sending this thing back. I'm not spending more of my money to fix something for them, especially when I'm under warranty.

 

ThrottleStop 1.77
http://www.sendspace.com/file/gnkg7e

I uploaded it to a different site. The FileDen is bogged down at the moment. FileDen used to be a great site but I guess too many people use it now.

The only change in this version is I tried to make the numbers in the data area line up better. Call me anal but when users start e-mailing their results to Dell looking for an explanation, I want the data to look nice and be easy to read.

fr0x: I tried adding ThrottleStop to my Startup folder, I rebooted and it seemed to work OK. The Set Multiplier option was selected and it changed the multiplier correctly. If you have any problems, let me know.

If anyone is using UAC and wants ThrottleStop to start up when you boot up then the best way to accomplish this is with the Task Scheduler. I wrote a tutorial to do this with RealTemp so it should be easy to follow and do the same thing for ThrottleStop.

http://www.xtremesystems.org/forums/showpost.php?p=3970161&postcount=3657

Programs that access your CPU at this level need administrator privileges.

 

I tested and when I restart ThrottleStop, the box Set Multiplier is uncheck. I need to check manualy the box after a restart of ThrottleStop

All other box are checked after restarting ThrottleStop, so it's just the box of Set Multiplier is not saved

 

Well, holy f'ing poop crackers....I just got an email from Bill Bivin (Dell guy working the capture) and I quote:

"Using Throttlestop in combination with an adapter over 90W will void your warranty"

I've written a stern email to him asking for an explanation because Dell has had MORE THAN A HUGE OPPORTUNITY to tell us that it voids the warranty. I think it covers like the last 50 pages of this thread?!?

~Ibrahim~

 

@Ibrahim
How can they tell?

 

What is DELL's problem with the over 90W adapters?? This shows the mentality they are having about replacing the ac adapters. Its not even considered as an option by dell.

 

They would be hard pressed to prove that you have been using throttlestop. givin the dell reps are as dumb as a bag of rocks, i dont see any problems in the near future either.

I dont feel to bad either taking advantage of it, as this is what happens when you screw your customers.

 

-[Deleted]-

 

That's true, I'm not sure how they'll be able to tell.

Still, I thought you guys should be in the know.

~Ibrahim~

 

It really sounds like "the bios update will not raise the bar over 90W", which will make useless everything from 130W and above.

By the way, can someone tell me if the Alienware M17x PSU, which is 210W, is 19.5 volts?

 

ThrottleStop 1.77
http://www.sendspace.com/file/gnkg7e

Thanks for the update fr0x. I think I finally figured out the problem. The piece of code that reads this info was hiding in the Core 2 section. It worked great on my Core 2 so I thought it worked great for everybody.

My mistake. I hope the updated version FINALLY works OK.

 

Well, I guess Dell has officially given us no other option than to return the machines, unless they provide a proper, working solution. With ThrottleStop as a workaround these machines are very capable, but take that option away and the 1645 becomes useless for a lot of people.

How they are actually hoping to prove the usage of ThrottleStop on any machine is beyond me, but that's not the point here. They probably have something to cover up, which will be uncovered by the TS / 130W combo (bad electronics?).

Anyway, this is a very interesting development and I'm now more curious than ever what the new BIOS is supposed to do.

 

It works !!!!

Many thanks

 

If using ThrottleStop voids your warranty then change the name of the .exe file and call it whatever you like. Problem solved.

Is Dell going to void your warranty for running software on your computer? That's about as dumb as GM voiding your warranty for actually driving your new car.

Your welcome fr0x. Thanks for continuing to beat me over the head about this issue. It took me a while but I finally got it!

 

Please guys, do yourself a favor and return it if the problem is not resolved in the next week.
If you are so in love with it keep it and live with work around or return it and buy it latter when it is resolved.

The battery dies if you use the full power of the system which implies that there is a hardware limitation for a certain power consumption, several people reported their battery dead. Mine died even before the Throttlestop and using the 90watt charger

 

Just a thought: what if the "guilty" part in the sentence is the word "ThrottleStop" and not "an adapter over 90W"?

Maybe they're just telling us "you will be able to use more than 90W adapters (honestly, as said, i would go for a 210W) with the new bios, but don't use third party programs".

Is this reasonable?

 

I think it's too late for me to return mine even if I wanted to. It arrived for me on December 1st.

I now remember back when I was buying the laptop over the phone, the rep was really trying hard to push the Studio 15 on me instead, saying that I would probably be more happier with it. At the time, I didn't think much of it, but perhaps they knew that something was wrong with this system at that time itself?

 

Asherek: I received my machine on 11/30, but honestly even I would probably be able to get a return without a restocking fee if I complained enough about the throttling issue. For now, I'll stay tuned and see what Dell comes up with.. but my patience is starting to wear thin.

 

Not late as long as you have a service request not resolved, have you tried chatting or calling them before? if so then you can request it resent back.
I had the same case returned it after a month or so as my service request was not resolved.
No restocking fees. No hassle.
Worst case, file a BBB complain, will be resolved in a week, indicate in the complain that your system is not working and that there is a safety issue in using the 90watt charger which is the actual case.

 

With a 90 watt adapter, an XPS 1645 can not deliver the performance that the specifications would lead one to believe. This has definitely become a matter for the Better Business Bureau to decide. If Dell has no intention of fixing this issue then these laptops should be recalled.

 

I've clarified with Bill.

ThrottleStop itself isn't a problem. It's when it's used with a higher-wattage adapter.

Ahem, no one is sure how they will be able to prove it. And, ahem, also no one thinks it will ever be brought up on a warranty case. Ahem.

~Ibrahim~

 

That's true, but I'm really wondering why Dell would say this. Right now there is a working solution to the problem, and it is costing Dell nothing. A lot of users are buying their own adapters. Sure, some of them will ask Dell for an adapter, but even handing over the bigger adapter would be cheaper than refunding the 1645's.

With this statement they are officially not leaving us any other option. Sure we *can* use ThrottleStop, and we probably will, but as far as Dell is concerned, the 1645 has just become useless. It contains hardware we're not allowed to use.

I really like my 1645, and during my daytime work, it is great. But every once in a while I buy a game and intend to play through it after working hours. This is not possible by Dell's rules

You might be right. But still something doesn't seem right. I'm really wondering if Dell knows something about our hardware that we don't know.

I used to have a 1705 with the Nvidia 7800Go. That thing would die at around 80 degrees Celsius. What if our 4670's have a similar problem? It wouldn't be apparent at first, but in a few months time they could die.

The only thing to do then, is ti make sure it has been loaded enough during the warranty period, so that if it is going to break, it will break in warranty...

 

It's only reasonable if they provide a BIOS fix and the power supply.

I take that back. It's not reasonable nor legal for them to tell you that you cannot use a specific program no matter what they choose to do or not to do about the problem.

They would have tell you each (individually) in writing that using any means to make the crippled unit work properly by using software to bypass their built-in crippling mechanism will void your warranty.

To do that they would have to admit that they have crippled these machines.

They would also have to offer you an alternative should you choose not to accept this agreement. That alternative would probably be a refund.

This looks to me to be the beginnings of a Class Action Lawsuit.

Can you imagine the negative publicity of admitting that many of you were sold defective M1530s and the given crippled 1645's as warranty replacements or that many of you purchased these systems based on advertised performance that they don't actually deliver?

Dell is now changing their websites to eliminate any reference to gaming with the 1645. This action clearly shows that they are both aware of the problem and they are trying to cover it up.

 

Did any of you bother to .pdf the pages while they were still referring to gaming? Just wondering.

 

I don't think they would have to reference gaming. If I buy a machine with an i7 and an 4670 inside I expect to be able to use them both to their full capacity, and actually at the same time too.

I would not buy a V8 car that only uses 1 of its cylinders to power itself. That would simply be insane.

 

For sure it's been screenshooted pages ago.

However I just took the PDF for the US version of the site, and it still mentions gaming.

 

Like I said....ahem, no one thinks they will be able to bring it up as a warranty issue.

I'm pretty sure they just said that to save face in front of their legal department who just saw some customers using a higher-wattage power supply than what the laptop was sold with.

But, again....no one thinks it will be brought up. Ahem.

~Ibrahim~

 

Has anyone recorded the max temperatures while using throttlstop and 130+Watt adapters?

 

lets just start referring to our games as graphic intensive applications. (dells words)

the gaming card they are pulling is out right.

edit: max temperatures when gaming, i have had peaks around 82-83C. hangs around 75C usually. Been even better lately now that i got a cooler.

 

Let's face it: it seems that 130W + ThrottleStop burned some battery (don't blame on me unclewebb, you're truly great, but these are facts). Maybe Dell is fixing something on this side before letting us to use 130+W adapters.

 

I agree with you but so far Dell reps have repeatedly said the 1645 "is not for gaming". Clearly Dell thinks that is significant, so pointing out them covering up what they think is significant is useful in court.

Think about the actual process of a lawsuit:
I know what kind of performance one should expect with these specifications, but will the average member of a jury? Probably not, but they will easily grasp Dell changing the websites AFTER selling a bunch of machines and then many people have complained that they do not do what they previously advertised them to do.

 

I can only give you my own opinion. I've owned about five different Dell computers, including three laptops. Given the overall difficulties I've had with my 1645, I'd return it.

 

I was really hoping that dell would man up and admit they've crippled our systems for whatever reasons i don't know (not important to me at this point), and giving us a proper fix to allow us to utilize the full potential of our hardware. But the fact that dell specifically bans throttlestop, without giving a proper explaination why, tells me that this in fact was calculated by dell, and not just some random one time thing.

Because of this i feel that dell is pretty much forcing my hand, and that there's just no way i can justify keeping my 1645 at this point.
Too bad really, because on paper this machine really had potential.

 

I would still wait to judge Dell for this. Remember that (as long as I understand) this is NOT an official statement, and maybe just a "don't use anything that doesn't come from Dell since we're providing a proper solution". I still haven't lost all hope.

 

Its really good that you guys express your opinion. Coming to your own conclusions, that is a good thing.

but be wary though about false hope as their history does not bode well for us. Their handling of the latitudes throttling basically screwed their costumers, and this is a year after it was discovered. With the response that the m15x got about their throttling during l4d2 etc was abysmal and thats a gaming laptop.