S-XPS 1645 AC Power Throttle Issue Investigation

He's going to call tomorrow, same time, so I should be available.

 

I just love calling Dell. I've been on the phone for the past 45 minutes, and have yet to actually speak to anyone besides their smarmy automated "assistant".

 

So do we have a consensus on which adapter to order? Is it indeed the Pa-4e? I am just checking pricing online now, it doesn't seem like Dell is willingly sending these out.

 

I would wait, it's a known issue with a new laptop and they are investigating the problem. This is supposed to be a gaming laptop and they are obligated to fix this stuff under the warranty. I would advise people to call support and make it known there are lots of people hitting this, maybe it will become a higher priority issue than it is now.

 

Oh I agree, they will eventually make it right. That said, I think i will still pick up one in the interim. Right now I am getting about 10fps less playing dragon age on AC power vs. Battery. Its maddening! Anyway trianglelaptops.com has the PA-4E for 20 dollars refurbished right now.

 

i ordered the pa-4e from trangle laptops a while back, supposed to be here wednesday. Ill let yall know when i get it, what it looks like etc

 

Well color me surprised!

A dell supervisor called me and apologized that I was affected by the "issue with underpowered AC adapters" and took my information down. They are shipping me a 130watt PA-4E Slim adapter first thing in the morning with overnight shipping and expidited processing at no charge. I do need to return my old 90watt, which doesn't bother me at all since it doesn't do me any good.

I'm very happy, I've heard that XPS support is good and i didn't believe it especially after the issue i had ordering. I've been totally surprised.

The fact that he apologized for the "ac adapter issue" makes me think that they have identified it as a problem.

You guys that are having issues will probably need to still fight your way up to supervisors to get any real resolution. Make sure to show them this thread.

I should have my new adapter by thursday.

 

I just placed an order for this system. There was a 1 days sale on Dell.ca for 1299.99. Never heard of this problem until now. Do you think dell fixed this problems for their products now? Or maybe the xps 1645 now comes with 130W ac adpaters. Does anyone know?

I ordered this system today on NOV 30th and it gives me the Estimated Ship date of 12/25. Christmas day, that's perfect. So i problem won't even expect this system to be shipped out until after the holidays.

 

What is the part number internally for the PA-4E? Where is it on Dell's website?

I chatted with them tonight, they are going to follow up with me.

Maybe it's a separate issue, but are the USB devices malfunctioning for anyone else here?

 

I thought I'd try and call again.

I was on hold for 30 minutes before the system hung me up.....

I can wait until tomorrow.

@Zlog

YES! Congrats. I wonder if they'll do a recall or they'll just wait for people to ask for them.

~Ibrahim~

P.S. @gaah

I mean, my jump drive works fine...

 

I got mine today and it came with PA-3E....

 

Got a phone call, the manager told me that at the moment they don't have a solution for our problem and that he can replace my charger.........WITH ANOTHER 90 watts charger.
I told him that it imposes a safety hazard but he again refused.
He also pretended that I am the first one to report the problem!!

 

I see this regularly in the event log:

Code:

Log Name:      System
Source:        Microsoft-Windows-Kernel-Processor-Power
Date:          11/30/2009 8:29:10 AM
Event ID:      37
Task Category: (7)
Level:         Warning
Keywords:      
User:          SYSTEM
Computer:      harmony
Description:
The speed of processor 0 in group 0 is being limited by system firmware. The processor has been in this reduced performance state for 3 seconds since the last report.
Event Xml:
<Event xmlns="http://schemas.microsoft.com/win/2004/08/events/event">
  <System>
    <Provider Name="Microsoft-Windows-Kernel-Processor-Power" Guid='{0F67E49F-FE51-4E9F-B490-6F2948CC6027}' />
    <EventID>37</EventID>
    <Version>0</Version>
    <Level>3</Level>
    <Task>7</Task>
    <Opcode>0</Opcode>
    <Keywords>0x8000000000000000</Keywords>
    <TimeCreated SystemTime="2009-11-30T16:29:10.655027400Z" />
    <EventRecordID>637357</EventRecordID>
    <Correlation />
    <Execution Processid='4' Threadid='56' />
    <Channel>System</Channel>
    <Computer>harmony</Computer>
    <Security Userid='S-1-5-18' />
  </System>
  <EventData>
    <Data Name="Group">0</Data>
    <Data Name="Number">0</Data>
    <Data Name="CapDurationInSeconds">3</Data>
    <Data Name="PpcChanges">2</Data>
    <Data Name="TpcChanges">0</Data>
    <Data Name="PccChanges">0</Data>
  </EventData>
</Event>

Today there was also an article on slashdot.org regarding what is known as "Throttlegate" - Dell systems with aggressive power management causing performance problems.

http://hardware.slashdot.org/story/09/11/30/1818207/Dell-Defect-Turning-22GHz-CPU-Into-100MHz-CPU

Maybe this relates to the problem we're having now?

 

My system is Throttling with a 130W adaptor while playing Borderlands... it doesnt on battery and doesnt when the brightness is lowered...


I need to do more testing...

 

Tested with Prime 95 and real temp and boarderlands all at the same time... even when its on battery it will not stay at x13.. even with brightness on min... ac adaptor is worse than battery... but it looks like making the system go crazy with CPU/GPU/RGBLED not even the battery can supply power fast enough..

 

Pretty sure this one is power related.. Although not gunna say those problems might not be there as well.. I was running furmark and saw that it was struggling to keep a 12 mult on high brightness. lower the brightness and it jumps up to like 19x. Add prime95 running one process it dropped to 7x and was steady. What was odd tho the powersupply itself while getting hot, also shuttoff (protection?), as the computer was discharging and the blue light was off, unplugged and replugged it back in and it came back on. Further signaling its a power issue. Its a pretty good test, ill get my backup 130w in this wed's as well and should be able to verify max420's finding adding more ammo for the reps.

 

i wonder if 150, or 210W may be our solution.

 

I still think it might not be a bad idea to create a type of news/complaint post which can be sent to several tech sites around (engadget, theinquirer, etc.) to add some extra pressure (if nothing is being done at the moment). Somebody mentioned they had already exchanged emails with somebody who worked for one of these sites who liked the news that was sent to him (few pages back).

 

So my laptop arrived around 2 hours ago, the first thing I did was phone dell while sorting out my setup etc.

The guy I spoke to in India was very polite, and sort of seemed to understand, but he put me on hold and came back after discussing the issue to say that I could either have a replacement 90 watt adapter AND and new motherboard, or 'as my machine was so new', a complete replacement machine (with 90 watt adapter).

I told him that was rather drastic action, and have directed him to this thread for him to call be back within 30 mins. I dont hold out much hope that I'll get what I want, but if nothing else, I will have raised the issue with Dell UK and it might help others in future.

 

Omg, I got my call back, and sooner than expected. I will be sent out a 130w adapter and it should arrive tomorrow!

They tried to argue with me that there wasnt a 130w adapater for this model, I simply argued that there are compatible ones and that others have had this sent out in the US.
He replied that none had been sent in the UK, but the simple answer was that there has to be a first one sent out to allow them to test and solve the issue.
It will be on its way to me shortly, and I'm amazed that of all the problems with ordering and performance of this machine that dell may have actually done something right!

 

Well, this is now A 4th time I was denied a 130W Adapter and that the issue is still not resolved with Dell, so whoever gets one is lucky unless you buy it.. Below is the last reply I received from dell:

Thank you for the response.



Request you to please provide us the Service tag for the other machine you mentioned. We are checking for the options for 130 Watt adapter as a replacement, we are yet to receive an update.



We would like to capture this machine for further analysis.

We shall send you a replacement machine and it would take a weeks time for you to receive the same. You will receive the return waybill through email to send this machine back to the product group.



Please reply back with your shipping address and contact number if this is okay with you.





Regards,

Mohammed.


Here is my answer to that:

I will not be doing that as that is crazy, other than the adapter issue the Machine is running perfect and I also am not a gamer, just wanted the correct adapter as this is what I paid for. I will wait for the recall

 

Im thinking it could of been the 130w adaptor i was using.... i have more at work today and i braught the laptop to work with me... will do further testing.... pretests show this other 130w brick working better....

 

Interesting article found: http://www.engadget.com/2009/12/01/dell-facing-massive-e6400-and-e6500-overheating-and-underclockin/

The interesting part is they mention the problem to be Bios related. Makes me wonder

 

So is this issue strictly reserved to XPS systems with the core i7 or is it for anyone who owns a XPS 1640 system? i got to thinking about this power issue and the fact that the brick gets way wicked hot and thought perhaps it equates to the issues I have running 3D modelling programs. I have an ATI 4650 1gb graphics card with the up to date drivers from ATI and i have issues with the graphics not performing like it should causing issues with my programs. IF the power supply is the issue, then it would make sense that my machine needs more power and it's not getting it and perhaps causing the brisk to overheat? Sorry for being a noob in this department, but I thought it a good idea to ask kindly.

 

I ran a game on battery until I got a warning that the battery was down to 6% charge and so I plugged in the AC (a PA-3E), but the screen had taken on a not very bright blue hue/tint, so I rebooted. On POST, I got a message that the battery could not be recognised and would not be charged by the AC. Now I can't get rid of the blue hue/tint to the screen - have checked power settings, brightness key on keyboard, colour calibration software and colour in ATI CC. The colour affects the appearance of the screen outside of Windows eg. BIOS. Not sure wth is going on but appears to be battery-related. The battery is charging and is currently at 17% charge, but the screen's appearance hasn't changed despite switching off, rebooting several times, etc. I no longer get the message about not recognising the battery at boot.

I have a SXPS16 w/ i7-720QM, ATI 4670, RGBLED, 4Gb RAM, 128Gb SSD, etc, and the latest A02 BIOS installed.

EDIT: word of warning to those running games on battery - my RGBLED is now signalling a faulty code when a diagnostic is run on it (turn the laptop off, hold D and press power button to initiate screen test, btw) and Dell is sending out an engineer to replace it tomorrow. I was advised by the technical supervisor I spoke to that Dell are testing to see if the 130w AC adapter resolves the power issues people are experiencing. I will be updated when they have it resolved and they will send one out to me then.

 

I received mine yesterday, playing CoD6:MW2 right now.

Full brightness, wifi on, plugged in, high performance everywhere. 90W adapter.
Runs completely fine. Maybe even better than on battery.

Maybe it's a US/Canada problem? I live in the Netherlands and as I said, it's all fine.

 

RGBLED?

Resolution?

Because I can get COD MW2 to run smooth without downgrading resolution to something like 1024x600.

 

Not consuming a lot of resources, it should run fine either on battery or charger as the FPS is much higher than 30FPS so you will not be able to judge based on this games. Try a more demanding game at the maximum settings.

 

I dont have issues with 3dmark 06 like others have. but i also dont have an rgbled screen, and have the regular 720qm etc so it should draw less power. but i load the video card with slight extra processor use and it starts to tank just like weve been seeing. Ive even had the adapter shut off on me once, which was very odd.

 

Forwarded max420's post and this thread to the writer of that Engadget article.

~Ibrahim~

 

I was going to

 

I sent him an email as well.

Update: HE DID IT. He updated his post:

http://www.engadget.com/2009/12/01/dell-facing-massive-e6400-and-e6500-overheating-and-underclockin/

 

Ugh. So frustrated with Dell right now. Has anyone had personal contact with a specific person and knows their extension? Because I've tried calling back like 5 times...keep getting idiots who have no clue what they're talking about.

 

Your not alone I have tried 4 times already and have got nowhere, I even reached the department that tests the computers and I was denied because it still has not been proven by them that the adapter issue is the cause, so who ever has got the adapter is lucky according to that department. (They wanted me to send my computer to them to be tested, I declined that offer)

 

lol....trying to get a Dell representative who will do something is like the chance of a particle making it through a barrier by just trying over and over again. I think the particle makes it through like every googol tries.

So, we're about 1/(1x10^99) there.

I think you just have to go up the food chain: request a manager, request his manager, etc.

SCORE on the article, thanks Daraj.

~Ibrahim~

 

Another article found: http://www.maximumpc.com/article/news/overheating_problems_plague_e6400_and_e6500based_dell_laptops

 

We got to get the XPS 1645 specifically mentioned in these articles if we want this responded to.

 

I can confirm that the problem is not restricted to North American devices. French customers have reported the same problem. We (french users) are investigating the issue to. You can refer to this thread (if you read french) : http://www.lesdelliens.com/forums/topic/18251-studio-xps-16-avez-des-problemes-de-performances-sur-secteur/

Please note that the XPS1645 is branded as "Studio XPS 16" in France and is also shipped with a 90w AC adapter (PA-13).

The problem has been reported to Dell France but their technical team say that it cannot happen because the hardware between US and Euro are not the same (they just share everything but the OS language...). They have been contacted back to say that it obviously occurs on european hardware to.

There are users who received 130w adapter and we may get a 150w one. We'r waiting for the results to come.

 

Even with a 130W... the CPU is throttling... doesn’t matter what I do, or whichever adaptor I use, if I dial down the brightness 5-6 notches it’s ok, after that the system started struggling because of the CPU throttling..

i need to get some numbers or something... i wonder if a 150 would help me any..

 

I recieved my 1645 yesterday. First test with 3dmark:

Test on 100% charged battery system WITH the 90W AC Adapter @ Full Brightness, Wifi+Bluetooth On, etc.

7063 pts.

Looks like there is no problem with mine.

i7 Q720, WLED FullHD, 128 GB SSD, Radeon 4670, 90W Adapter

 

You have the WLED vs RGBLED and SSD vs HDD, both use less power so that might be what's helping you.

My system doesn't benefit from switching over to battery mode, sadly. I think we're going to need a BIOS update to fix this, and likely a new power supply.

 

Yeah, this is why people shouldn't go ordering adapters. We should let Dell figure out what the problem is first. There's strong evidence that a higher wattage adapter would fix the problem, but we don't really know for sure or how high a wattage is really necessary. One person saw the problem go away with 130 watt, but its hardly beyond a doubt.

 

Anyone know if the 210w M17x adapter will work? I need another adapter anyways.

 

Wouldn't that be an overkill? I think 150 will be a safe bet.

 

I can get one cheaper than the 150w

 

We have the same problem in France.

My result:



Battery 100% NO AC, wifi on = 7987 in 3dmark 06
Battery 95% AC Plug (90w), wifi on = 7012 in 3dmark 06

I will get my 130w slim in the week normaly.

 

18663988977

Try this number if you guys are trying to get some help, apparently it's the Dell XPS Laptop line. I haven't tried it yet, but that's what this terribly nice technician told me.

~Ibrahim~

 

Ok, this is what I have found.... specs listed in signature...

ATI 9.11 Driver Mod,

Code:

                130W                 ||     90W

LAC     HAC     LBAT    HBAT    LAC2    LAC     HAC

7044    7053    7075    7079    7070    6962    6123    3D Mark Score
2455    2462    2473    2474    2477    2464    2458    SM 2.0 Score
3032    3031    3034    3035    3033    3030    2225    SM 3.0 Score
3324    3335    3361    3364    3328    3023    3314    CPU Score

 1st    2nd     3rd     4th     5th     6th     7th Run

Key:

LAC = Low Brightness, on AC
HAC = High Brightness, on AC
LBAT = Low Brightness, on Battery
HBAT = High Brightness, on Battery
LAC2 = Low Brightness, on AC - 2nd Run (1st run was to load 3dmark 06 into mem.)

Tested with both 90 and 130W adaptors... When playing games I still get stuttering and sound issues when brightness is maxed on my system.

Definitely looks like a BIOS update is going to be needed to help the i7 Throttle better, wish i had a 150W+ adaptor to test with..

 

LOL, why people shouldn't go ordering adapters? beyond a doubt?

maybe if dell did proper testing in the first place, we wouldnt have this problem.....so lets all wait for something that may not even happen.

well, all my problems went away, so I'm glad i ordered an adapter. its gone, beyond a doubt for me.

i never said id solve the problem for everyone, i said i wanted to play games without lag and my sound crackling. and now i do, so id say i made the great choice. =D

although, i didn't get a slim one, that's my issue, and if im going to buy one, i may as well buy a 150W, see if it charges faster....unless you think dell is going to do the battery charging test for me, if so ill wait and see which charges my battery fastest.

 

siphen your case is interesting since you have both the rgbled and 820qm... while max420 with the adapter has the wled 900p with the 820qm.. where my system with the 720qm and wled seems to do okay with the 90w 3dmark06 wise anyway while games i can tax a good bit and run into issues. Since we dont have actuall power readings, its safe to say we really dont know how much power these things are pulling or how close to the edge of the 90w they are, especially worst case scenario configuration that your laptop seems to have.

a 130w is 40w more then a 90w. But what i think is unclear is how much the adapters can really supply in real world test, and for how long as well. So your results are interesting.