S-XPS 1645 Throttling Info. and Updates

Hmmm i think that says a lot! Firstly, as expected they want more time with not even a promise of a fix.

The likes of unclewebb, atlstang, Zlog et al, have proven time and time again there is a problem in the power design. Furthermore they proved what can be achieved with the use of TS and a larger power adaptor. Yet Dell still refuse to implement such software and hardware fixes...

Now aside from the financial costs, why else would they still deny a larger power supply is required? Even (now this is a massive 'EVEN') they manage to sort this by BIOS fix alone, how the hell do they justify the heat levels these power adaptors are generating?

Do Dell still think a larger power supply could cause potential long term damage? And if so, will they void the warranty of all current people using TS and a larger power supply?

 

For those of you who think this is a new problem that Dell has not had time to fix, you are mistaken.

This problem was first identified and brought to Dell's attention on some of the Dell business laptops over a year ago (is it over two years now?).

I know that this thread and the other thread add up to thousands of posts, but it would be wise to read through ALL of it before making assumptions. You should also do a web search for "throttlegate" and read what you find there. Once you are properly informed you may see things differently.

This thread is here to post updates and new information about the problem and what Dell is doing (or not doing) about it (as it relates to the 1645), not to bash Dell, nor to dispute that the problem exists.

 

They wouldn't admit that the 130 is suitable simply because they will not handout power supplies, its not cost efficient for them. It clear that the way they formulated this bios limit is for them to be able to use the cheaper 90W vs 130W. Cheap. I will not think they will void warranties simply because they wouldn't know what do you having running on your computer. From what I understand is that they revised a new generation of 90W and they are allegedly runs cooler and more efficient. Again , nothing solid.

 

As far as why Dell is not exchanging the AC Adapters to the 130W at this time is due to the long term negative issues that could affect the Battery and the Motherboard, this is what they also mentioned to me, the 130W Adapter would have to be tested before it is approved.

They do know that many have got there own 130W adapter and that the short term usage has been no problem.

I can only inform you of what they told me, if it is due to a money issue I could not say as I do not have any info on that.

 

Hello All

I have been following the thread with great interest as I'm about to purchase an XPS 16 with intel i7 720qm.

I live in the UK and would like to see if other UK residents are experiencing throttling?

Or is it just Predominantly noth America users being affected?

Thanks.

 

I'm also from UK but i guess that shouldn't make any difference as we're also getting 90w power adaptors.
My laptop has been delivered but i won't be testing - sorry. I'm too disgusted to even want to open the box.

 

the processor, the motherboard, ram, hd, video, etc. are all the same, so, no matters where are you from, the issue will be still there.

I am from Argentina, and i am expecting the arrival of my new 1557, core 720QM, 4gb, ATi 4570, and i am sure i`ll have this problem, as i had with my xps 1340 (yes, it had throttling issues, but i haven`t seen anyone posting about it, same as with 1557). Shame that my 1340 only lasted 3 month before i`ve got robbed... excelent machine (after y made about 2 or 3 BIOS upgrades... still media buttons got jammed time to time).

So, next monday (if it arrives on time), i`ll run benchmarks and post about if i had or not any problems.
by the way, it`s Summer over here, about 34 degrees celcius, maybe more sometimes, so i think it will heat as hell.

 

Ted

This problem is not limited to north America. I'm in Norway, and i experienced exactly the same problems as customers in the US. On paper this machine is great, and if you can convince your dell rep to ship a 130W+ adaptor, you might be ok. I didn't get a chance to test the A05 BIOS before i returned my system, but from what i hear, dell increased the voltage which resultet in a hotter running system with marginally less throttling. Somebody please correct me if i'm wrong.

In my view, the only valid argument for getting the SXPS is the RGBLED display, so if you were looking at the WLED, you'd be better off spending your money elsewhere. That's my personal opinion.

 

Lucho, Im from Argentina too.
If we buy the laptop with Dell US, Will Dell Argentina give us any support, warranty if anything goes wrong with the laptop?
If you know this, please tell me. thank you. (English speaking forum )

 

@questions pertaining to what I have to say

Just read the posts again, I'm pushing the limit on the info I can give out. I don't want to get your guys' hopes up, but like I've said for a while: I think Dell will take most of the right steps to solve this issue, but continued pressure is key.

I hate being cryptic, but.....eh....the truth will out? :/

~Ibrahim~

 

fmac, i don`t really know... i bought my ex xps 1340 in bestbuy at a local store in miami, but never came in contact with dell support, so i can`t tell. I think you`ve to buy other type of warranty to have support in another country.

 

@atlslang: I have no idea. I've only bought Dell laptops in the past, so this could be interesting. I'll do some research this weekend.

 

Looks like the 1647 with the i5's doesnt seem to be throttling. So that may look promising, if a dual core is acceptable. I went for the envy 15 when the deal was out, as i7 is a big deal for longevity for me. Going to miss that backlight keyboard tho.

There been a lot more people returning laptops then i thought. If by some miracle they did fix the issue, maybe this will teach dell to do proper testing before release :-/

 

I went the same route as you as I ordered the ENVY. Still in production. But I still like my dell and now that early reports are saying good things about the 1647. I might go ahead and order the 1647 and play with the envy for a while when it comes. most probably will return the envy. Good move?

 

Its up to you and what you value, personally i think the envy is a perfect fit for me. Would of ordered it a long time ago, but it was 1800 base price when i was browsing laptops. It now has the super efficient 5000 series ATI card, and usb 3.0. Something im assuming that is coming to the 1647 one of these days ,in one of its refreshes.

My bro who really liked the laptop i had, has been looking very closely to them. I think hes set on the 1647 but is waiting for that refresh as he has nothing but time.

cpu speed is what i value most, as usefullness of my laptop goes down through the years the faster my desktop gets. When a lot of the simulations etc i run start taking hours longer vs the desktop i start to feel like im wasting time. But for normal operations/gaming i would assume most people would prefer the dual cores for heat/portability etc, as theyre pretty fast and not going to be much of a performance hit for them at all.

 

Not a heavy gamer so I think the i5 is good for my usage. However, I got the envy i5 which doesnt have the USB 3.0 Unfortunately. I will keep on eyeing the 1647 for any new refreshes possibly switchable graphics or even usb 3

 

A little off topic but.... Fun with Dell Reps.....

Looks like they still recommend the 1645. She must just play solitaire all day.

 

lmao wow I love seeing reps with egg on their face.

 

hah! pwnt.

 

I've said this numerous times, but are you in US or Canada? If so, go to BBB's site and file a complaint, takes all of 5 minutes and you WILL get results almost immediately.

 

Back on topic, how does this Throttling issue affect you if you're NOT gaming? Will it affect you if you're just doing CPU intensive tasks such as photo editing? I can see the main page states it also affects photo editing but i was under the impression the GPU had nothing to do with this.
Has anyone tested this? Sorry if this has already been posted...

 

I myself have no throttling with photo editing (stitched 100+ 4MB photos together in panorama) and everything worked perfectly: 13x multi on i7 and pretty high C0% usage, but I don't remember the brightness.

But, some photo editing programs (I used Windows Live Gallery and some other small program) may use the GPU and cause throttling.

Or high brightness could cause throttling on a CPU-only task. It really depends. If this is really important, don't get the SXPS 16.

What programs specifically? There are a few guys here who use some photo editing and they could check.

 

I asked once before about video editing and using VirtualDub to test it. VirtualDub is a free program so maybe somebody can download it, throw an AVI in there and resave it with a couple of filters (Levels & Brightness/Contrast?) and see what happens.

 

Thanks for the reply guys - much appreciated. ikjadoon, I will mainly be using it for photo editing. Programs i use are Canon Digital Photo Professional (don't think this supports multicore), Adobe Photoshop Lightroom and Adobe Photoshop - both these support multicore. All of my work is shot RAW - these files are large and require a good CPU. I'm pretty sure all the programs i have mentioned do not rely on GPU at all. When converting from RAW to JPEG in batch - this can really drive the CPU.
I guess all i'm asking is whether throttling would affect me under such use. I still don't know enough about Throttling. From what i have gathered here, the CPU throttles when there is a strain on resources which include CPU, GPU, Screen Brightness and i guess HD. This is due to not having enough power (<90w) on tap?
But then i read posts which make me think the throttling is due to heat in the system. I'm just a little confused as to where the correlation lies:
Strain on resources (CPU+GPU+Screen) = Throttling ?, or
Heat build up = Throttling ?

Turning screen brightness down isn't an option for me - it was one of the main reasons i invested in this machine.

I have it sitting here next to me (delivered today, but unopened), just don't know whether i should keep it or return it. I would test it but then i don't want to hamper my return in any way - like i've said before, from what i've read already i'm not too impressed with Dell's Customer Support.

Edit: if anyone is willing to test extensively under the above circumstances, that would be very much appreciated.

 

I did Levels and Brightness/Contrast. Went super-quick, made a 2.58GB file within a minute or so.

No throttling found: CMod% and Chip% were at 100% whole time, C0% jumped around 30ish-20ish, average multi was 12.xx.



@manny

Damn, I don't have any of those. I could D/L a trial, but I have no RAW images. Anyone with PS and have some RAWs laying around? This is a POWER throttle issue, not heat. The system isn't getting enough POWER.

~Ibrahim~

 

Nah Ibrahim thanks for your help - i wouldn't ask you to waste your time downloading programs and messing about with raw images. Your last sentance has made me wonder now though. Aside from driving the GPU fully with gaming, will the system throttle just on max CPU, max screen brightness, and high disk (not SSD) activity alone for a prolonged period of time - or is there enough power for this?

In this instance it may be ok for me - although i still won't accept that i paid a lot of money for a substandard laptop so it may go back on that basis anyway. Not to mention that i probably would game on it too.

 

XPS 1645 chat log with sales team.

 

^^^ Lmfao ^^^

 

They're beginning to disgust me.

 

Some people have seen the system throttle with just using the CPU (not sure what their other settings were).

On mine, full brightness P95 (eight cores, small FFTs) does NOT throttle, but I think some people's do?

~Ibrahim~

 

Very interesting, thanks for checking it out!

 

Okie dokie cheers Ibrahim - that's pretty much made my mind up - unless Dell somehow magically create a fix by monday!

 

For what it's worth, Photoshop CS4 has GPU acceleration enhancements for things like flick-panning, canvas rotation, etc. You can turn them off though and not use the GPU at all. I wouldn't imagine this would lead to throttling though because it's pretty low intensity stuff.

 

Whenever its convenient for them- its a gaming notebook but other times its not

 

Thank you AL bino, i didn't know that. Although i don't currently use those features, i may do one day - didn't know GPU came into the equation. :thumbsup

 

It is a gaming laptop and it has no performance issues. Dell hasn't even told their sales teams about this issue. How this is a honest sales tatic is beyond me.

 

Yes, if you view the poll going on over on Dell's forum, more and more people are losing faith in Dell every day: http://en.community.dell.com/forums/t/19306277.aspx?PageIndex=1

But let's not turn this into a Dell bashing thread. We just need a resolution to this throttling for now...

 

So I got a call back from Dell with my email. This is what I was told:

Another new BIOS release coming, it will be released for in-house testing on the 29th of January (I was told that I'll be receiving the BIOS at this time, I'm sure others will as well), and be released on the Dell website on February 12.

I was also told that Dell will be providing 130w adapters for machines that are having the issue.


Perhaps we'll see a BIOS that provides support for 130w (and 150w?) adapters.

So, in conclusion, I won't be returning my laptop. Yet. I told the rep that I'll hold out on my plan to return the system until after the BIOS is released (the 130w adapter isn't a huge deal for me since I got a 150w, but I'll certainly take it if the machine should have originally been shipped with it). If the issue is not resolved by then, I will return the laptop, no questions asked.

 

jakertberry - just to confirm, they're happy for you to keep the laptop and use it until the new BIOS is released next week (or in three weeks) on the basis that if you're not happy after that, they'll still allow you to return it for a full refund?

If they let me do that (and i have it on paper or email) then im game too...

(...no pun intended there)

 

Whoa. that's huge news...and promising. I'm not going to get my hopes up though.

 

@ m@nny: Yes. Full refund, no restocking fee, no questions asked.

And I will hold them to that

(Although I'd much rather just see a working BIOS and adapter, and happily use my laptop for the next several years)

 

If Dell is finally going to offer a 130 watt adapter, even if you have to ask for it, then the bios update should fully support that. There won't be any need for any of their throttling schemes with a 130 watt adapter.

That's great news. Hopefully it's based on fact and not just another story made up on the fly by a sales rep.

I guess any user that doesn't know about this issue or doesn't complain will be stuck with their 90 watt adapter.

Early testing of the XPS 1647 with a Dual Core shows no sign of throttling while running the Prime95+Furmark test. That proves that it is possible to build a laptop that can run that extreme load. If it can run that without throttling, it can run anything.

 

Since this is news from one of the executive reps who reply to the michael_dell emails, I would think it's not fluff (especially considering that there's no sales potential here and they're only going to lose more customers if this doesn't hold water).

Not that it's any different from before, but now we wait

 

I wouldn't get my hopes up until this is confirmed and posted by a Dell rep either on here or on Dell forum. Even then, what are they actually promising? Another BIOS? Yeh and...?

No offence to jakertberry, but my suspicious conscience is telling me they're falsely giving emtpy promises to people who call them, knowing if this information is filtered back to the community (here) it is the words of joe-public and not from Dell themselves - if you get what i'm trying to say.

If we look at the facts, so far all we've heard from Dell is that we're looking into it, and that there will be another BIOS update soon. Nothing concrete.

Edit: just read your last post jakertberry - good point about just doing more damage to themselves if they don't hold to their word.

 

Manny,

I've had a 1645 with the i7 720 processor for about 6 weeks now. I just registered here specifically to deal with your concerns about using the computer for photography applications.

I am a photographer and use Photoshop, Capture One, Canon DPP etc. I do some fairly heavy photo tasks, including stitching together 7 or 8 large tiff conversions, doing batch conversions from raw to tiff, working with layers, etc. Had someone else not pointed me to the discussions on this forum, I never would have known that there were any issues with the 1645.

I also have a custom built desktop computer with an i7 920 processor, 12 GB of 1333 DDR3 RAM, etc. While the 1645 is a bit slower than the desktop, for photo-related tasks, the difference in performance is very small. Photoshop loads in a couple of seconds, and editing operations, saving photos, etc. happens almost instantly.

I've also been using the Intel Turbo Boost monitor. It shows that the Turbo Boost is kicking in regularly and working as I'd expect it to do. Typical boosts are between 2.50 and 2.80 GHz. Further, I downloaded the Intel Processor Identification Utility and ran it. It shows my i7 720 processor is running at 1.72 GHz even with all cores active, which means that the Turbo Boost is kicking in even when all cores are active. My guess is that even the most resource-intensive photo tasks stress the computer's resources for only a short time, and they don't stress the system at anywhere near the level that happens with some of the gamers.

Thus, for photo applications, the 1645 is working superbly. Again, it may not work at quite the level as my i7 920 desktop, but it is very close.

I hope that information is helpful.

Les

 

They actually gave it to me, but for an error in the order. I got full accidental coverage for 3 years.

 

@jacketberry

Interesting...wonder if D2D will be updated soon?

 

Agreed, do we know if this is on the RGB as well?

 

You're having no problems because during photoshop only the CPU is really stressed. The gpu is less stressed than when running games and therefore your laptop doesn't require more than 90W

 

I'm guessing you are right. My point in posting was not to question whether or not others were having legitimate issues with applications like gaming. Instead, the purpose of providing the information about my experience was to help someone who is a photographer to feel comfortable that the laptop is going to do well in meeting his needs. For my needs as a photographer, even using the most resource intensive photo applications, the 1645 couldn't be doing any better than it is.

Les