S-XPS 1645 Throttling Info. and Updates

Nice, indeed.

Although some of the articles mention the 130W adapter as a solution, Dell's still only talking about BIOS based solutions or revisions.

Only time will solve this, and the way it's ticking now it might cost Dell a lot of customers.

 

Add this to the collection too - it's the most recent article:

http://blog.laptopmag.com/dell-issu...7-with-core-i7-core-i5-now-default-cpu-choice

 

Thanks, Perdire. Glad you finished the raspberry popsicle.

Interesting to learn that all the hot air about tinkerdude being banned from the Dell forums, and all links to his pdf being deleted were just that, apparently - hot air.

 

I was rather surprised myself. I had heard of Tinkerdude's 59-page PDF documenting the throttling issue, but I hadn't realized he had been banned because of it. Anyway, yeah, most of what I posted was old news, but I thought it would be nice to have. The fact 'authoritative' sources are documenting/noting/agreeing on the a validity of the whole issue the more solidity it has for us, and less likely its something DELL can brush aside.

 

Anyone know why Tinkerdude doesn't complain anymore? I'll give you a three letter hint. N D A.

That's just a rumor at the moment. Some people know the truth about this situation but are sworn to secrecy. It would be nice if this question was put to Dell to get them to confirm or deny it. Muzzling a person that has a legitimate complaint doesn't impress me much.

 

I like how that review said user reports of the multiplier dropping. But they couldnt get it to do it. Lol did they try?

I can add these later tonight

 

Well speaking of muzzeling check out what just arrived in my email:

Your post was deleted by TOS24.

Subject: Re: XPS1645 Owners & Potential Owners... Information regarding Throttling Issues (Throttlegate)

Reason: Hello Winks2872 ,

While we value your participation in the Dell Community, we have removed the account described above because it violates the Dell Community Terms of Service. You may remember that you agreed to abide by these Terms of Service when you registered with our website. If you would like to review the Terms of Service, you can find them at the following link: http://en.community.dell.com/content/TOS.aspx

This post content contains information that suggests or implies unauthorized solicitation including, but not limited to, commercial and legal solicitation and is prohibited on the Dell Community. Specifically this refers to solicitation for or discussion of, legal action against Dell. Please feel free to post and discuss your technical concerns in the Dell Community but discussions of a legal nature are not appropriate for this venue.

Thanks for cooperating and participating in the Dell Community.


Sincerely,

DTG33878
Dell Community Administration Services
________________________________________________________
This message is a private communication between the Dell Community and you and should not be posted to the message boards. Public posting of this message may result in immediate banning of your Dell Community account.



Thank you,
DELL COMMUNITY team



this was in responce to this post:

Re: XPS1645 Owners & Potential Owners... Information regarding Throttling Issues (Throttlegate)

By winks2872 in General Hardware

I believe you will still have this issue from what i have read. I have the I7 and am not pleased at all.. no so much because the throttling issue effects my day to day performance but due to the lack of responce from dell and also thier ignorance towards the issue.. Seems dell only answers when *** are filed eg the E6400 / E6500 class action. The question is would you like to do business with a company that clearly doesnt properly test its products and has no regard for its customers whatsoever. I would be fine if they even just said "sorry we screwed up" but instead we (1645 customers) are only fed a chain of intentional deciet. I cant wait until this class action begins just so i can read how dell responds.


interesting that they *** out the word lawsuit


ahh dell keep impressing me.

 

lmao I thought that was an expletive. They censored the word lawsuit? Wow.

 

I would hate to think what would happen if throttlestop wasnt created. We wouldnt know much about this issue or what the 1645 is capable of. Who knows what dell would have done or not done.

Lawsuit would have to potential to inform many other people. And ruin their rep. Which i think is deserving. If we want to do damage and force the issue, best way is to keep spreading it. It would seem dell has gone great lengths to keep throttlegate at a minimum.

Although the more features unclewebb adds to throttlestop, the more i think it will be used. and the more people will realize theyre been ripped off

I know there may or may not be a fix coming soon. But this shouldnt have ever gotten out in the first place, they gambled and tried to slip a fast one past the consumers i think.

 

I agree I was about to buy the i7 build and was never told once by a sales rep about the issue.I came on here to find a review and found the issue through you guys good job!

 

Vgame, the way the throttling seems to work on the 1645 is the bios seems to limit the power to the capabilities of the 90w adapter. Which would be fine if the 1645 pulled a buttload more then it was limited to by the adapter. When you run games, not all but the demanding ones like newer games. You are almost guaranteed to be throttled. Usually the cpu downclocks the multiplier to lower the power, essentially going from the 1.6ghz-2.8ghz it should be at to 900mhz or around there. Serverly limiting fps etc. In extreme cases causing stuttering.

Generally seen when the graphics card is being used, and at least a core or two being used. Pretty common in gaming.

There a bit more to it but that is the just of it.

 

In many respects I think Dell is absolutely delighted with Throttlestop and all the hard work that Unclewebb has put in to producing it. In fact, Unclewebb, has a large donation appeared from a "Michael.Dell" yet?!?!

I mean, think about this for a second. How many people would have returned their laptops long ago if TS didn't exist? I can place myself squarely in that bracket and I'm sure there are many more like me!! In fact I think a vote is in order!!

My honest opinion is that Dell are happy to sit by and watch what's going on. If "Jo Public" picks up on the problem they will no doubt do an internet search and find this thread or others similar. They then have an option, use TS and a new supply or return it. Dell can forget about all those who never pick up on the issue so all they have to worry about is those of you who have returned your laptop's, I wonder how many that is? Is it worth the expense of sending out 130W adapters to those who request them? Is it worth the expense of developing a new bios? Is it worth the risk of laptops dying within their warranty period because they haven't been tested with the higher load?

I've made a decision to keep the laptop and use TS and that's exactly what Dell wants everyone to do. If TS didn't exist they wouldn't be sitting pretty like they are....

 

I think these forums have disuaded many people from purchasing these machines.. i myself have prevented at least 8 i know of and who knows how many more potential dell victims who have just lurked and decided not to buy.. Im taking my banning from the DELL FORUMS rather personal so i have decided to distribute the throttlegate.pdf which dell has so feverishly tried to erase from the net. Im gonna create another user and go back in and post it in thier forums... likely the only honest information anyone will find in there.

heres the link:

http://www.mediafire.com/?njryy2ymynh

 

Looks like I'm going to put off my laptop purchase by one more week so I can save some money since the i5 build will be more expensive

 

HP DV8 is a good i7 alternative.. and cheaper than the xps

 

I really don't need an i7 but I like the display of the xps also I can not stand Hps mouse pad.Thanks for the suggestion though

 

Honestly you probably be a lot happier with an i5 over an i7. Theyre a lot cooler and blazing fast.

 

The only thing holding me down now is the warranty I wan't to make sure I get three years with the i5 I can't afford the warranty right now untill my next check in 2 weeks.

 

I haven't noticed a large contributor but I'll go check.

Nope, no such luck.

My biggest fear when I walk out the door is that some big guys in dark suits are going to put a bad over my head and then that will be it, no more ThrottleStop development.

I doubt that Dell is too impressed that users can finally see for themselves how much this throttling issue affects them.

I like the speedy i7-620 Dual Core. For gaming it should kill an i7-720 since it runs significantly faster without any throttling issues.

 

lmao Unclewebb.

I think TS is a double edged sword for Dell. Like someone mentioned before it's keeping people (like myself) happy enough to not rush to return their computers but at the same time it shines a flashlight on Dell's dirty laundry. Hey if you disappear we'll tell people that we think Dell got you.

 

And they're fighting it too! I have been away for a while, but before the weekend I did some gaming with TS enabled, and the A05 BIOS still manages to pull the i7 down to 75% for a lot ot the time. Even with the moredata option checked. So Dell is definately aware of TS and what it can do.

 

Just need to put a clause in throttlestop, if by any means ya cant reset a timer every 24hours. Source code for TS will be uploaded/emailed from unkown locations to thousands of people.

I agree though, TS exposes their methods and gives the community a foot to stand on. I think the net result will be a big loss to them, unfortunately its hard to measure the affects of would be buyers/rep. Regardless im sure dell would like to be the one to tell the stories vs people finding out themselves via throttlestop

edit: really mitchell? do you have logs? maybe webb can fight back.

 

Has dell banned you or deleted any of your posts on the dell forums?

 

To be honest, I'm surprised that they haven't yet. I think they learned that banning users doesn't go over well with the community.

Here's a post I did last night to try to counter some of the nonsense that an XPS 1640 is not a gaming computer so a user shouldn't expect it to work properly. Yea, sure.

http://en.community.dell.com/forums/p/19317486/19642571.aspx#19642571

Mitchell2.24v: The early reports are that bios A05 is more aggressive at using clock modulation to slow things down. Until a proper bios comes out that fully supports a 130 watt adapter, I think users are better off sticking with A03 when combined with ThrottleStop and a 130 watt adapter.

 

Isn't that how LOST got started

Yes I do. Just have to trim them a bit to show the actual time period instead of days worth of logging

It also wouldn't pull more than ~100W @wall, even with TS enabled. I must admit that I was still playing Dragon Age which isn't supposed to be a very demanding game. So imagine what happens in a demanding game...

I still really want to operate on one of my power bricks to find out how many amps they are actually delivering to the laptop. Just need to find some time. Don't want to rush this and break something.

 

I think it's a mixed bag. It is more aggressive, but also allows for more power draw, even without TS. In my experience, even with the forced throttling over TS, I like A05 better.

I'm not suggesting anyone should use A05, as I have also read the reports on A03 and A05. But my experience is different. But then again, my power brick doesn't get as hot. Maybe that's part of the puzzle. Mabe the quality of the delivered power decreases as the brick gets hotter. Could the laptop sense that and act on it?

 

Perhaps, they seem to have a way of communication whether its a 130w, 90w etc. Perhaps they can do revisions etc too. Cut one up if ya really want too as it would give some more insight on the problem. but in the grand scheme of things i think the proof in the pudding will be what dell has been cooking all this time. Which hopefully theyll release that soon.

 

Studio 15... i`ve runned some tests, and it seems that 1557 is not too afected by the 90w adapter. The only thing that made my i7 throttle was temperature. I turned wireless off, low brightest, etc. and runned prime95 on 8 threads and multiplier was between 11 and 13, most of the time 12. Then, i turned on wireless, highest brightest, etc. and runned the same tests, multiplier was bewteen 11/12.

I made the same test, but also runned furmark. 1557 throttled, but mecause core temp was 80c and GPU almost 97!!!! Multiplier went 9x and lower....
heat sucks... well, at least seems that this one has no power issues...

 

Day 3 of this week, and still no word from Dell. Dell we're waiting.

 

I think you will be waiting alot longer I honastly cant see a fix coming out until this time Feb.

 

If your CPU core temperature was only 80C then there was no reason in the world to throttle its performance. That's not how Intel designs their CPUs. At 80C, your multiplier should have been no less than its default which is 12 on an i7-720. A Core i7-620 Dual Core can run that same test and it can use a 20 times multiplier. Why should you be happy that your Quad core runs the same test but can only run it with a 9 times multiplier? You've just helped to prove my theory that an unthrottled Dual Core can outperform a Quad core that is being throttled to death, even in a multi threaded task. In gaming, it wouldn't even be close.

 

:S What happens when using throttle stop are the margins closer? Or is it still a one horse race ?

 

Hey guys, bit out of context here, hardware wise, but a couple of questions.
I ordered a new Studio 17, with the i7 (1747 model), and it's arriving tommorow. Unfortunately, I wasn't aware of this throttling issue being so huge, or I would have held back for a couple of weeks.
I'm just wondering, how noticeable is the throttling going to be, and more importantly, what steps do I need to take from the start to ensure that this and also the mysterious "7 Beeps" bug doesnt ruin what otherwise looks like an awesome laptop for a good price?
So far, I've got a 130w adapter ordered, I've downloaded ThrottleStop too. I've also downloaded the A04 BIOS from the Dell website, is this the right one to use for the 7 Beeps thing?

It's going to take me ages tommorow anyway to get rid of all the crapware that Dell will have shovelled onto the laptop, or if I get a Windows 7 disc, I might just format and reinstall, from what I've heard, that'd actually be quicker.

If anyones got any tips on how to avoid having this experience ruined, they'd all be much appreciated.
Thanks in advance,
Andy

 

i`ll run the tests again on my external dell 24" monitor and repost to se what happens then

 

Hi Andy, all i would advise is to phone up straight away and request a return. Then re-order IF/when they finally fix the issue.

I know it's not the answer you're looking for, but the only way Dell are going to listen and react is if they are losing sales.

Just my 2p worth!

 

Andy if you planning on doing anything that requires stress on the GPU ie gaminng, then the throtteling issue will be very noticible. However as said on a previouse page we would never have know it exsisted if Unclewebb hadnt of uncovered it, so it still going to be a fast machine with the throtteling just not as quick as it could be.
The 130W adapter and TS is all you need at the moment until DELL can come out with a propper fix.

As for the 7 beeps never heard of it. I would suggest seeing if it happens first before installing the new BIOS.

As for the bloat ware Im planning on going through it one by one lol I dont think I have the disk included?

I think you will pay a premium and you will see prices sky-rocket when the fix is out ue to the increase in sales from people holding off. So at this moment you pay your moeny and take your chance.
a) Hold on to it pray for a fix that may never come, if that works and then your good to go.
b) Wait for a fix and dont buy now, then but when fix comes out and risk a worse deal and increased production times.

Hope this helps.

 

The relevant paragraph of the TOS is:-

Contains false or deceptive language, unsubstantiated or comparative claims regarding our or others’ products, third party advertising, spam, chain letters, or any other solicitation, including solicitation of lawsuits. Links that connect to commercial websites will not be considered unauthorized solicitations unless the link or the website content appears to be intended as a means of solicitation or part of an “affiliate” program as determined by Dell in its sole discretion.

Nothing there to indicate that discussion of legal issues is prohibited.

Somebody has exceeded their authority. If they want to ban such discussion, that needs to be in the TOS.

Otherwise, it's just Dell banning stuff they don't happen to like. And they probably don't like the kick-back against throttling.....

 

Thanks for the input guys.
I'm going to use it for a bit of gaming, but nothing particularly tedious, like Crysis or MW2 or anything like that. Probably just WoW, maybe some L4D/2 etc.
Well, as I've ordered the 130w adapter anyway, I may aswell use that so I know that I'm getting the most out of my money.
I've already ordered and paid for the laptop, it's arriving tommorow morning. But yeah, I do agree that the prices will probably rocket when it gets fixed, and the queues for the unit will follow due to demand too.

The 7 Beeps might be a Studio 17 only issue then, something do with with putting the Laptop into Sleep/Hibernate on Windows 7, and it crashes the BIOS or something. A04 was meant to fix it, apparently. The only other way, is to rip the guts out, and re-seat the CMOS Battery.

The bloatware, I've just got horrible images of how much crap could be rammed up onto the poor system, along with my "lovely" 15month included sub to McAfee........*grumble* That'll be going first and right off. Question is, with so much bloatware, how much will it clog up the system, and would a fresh format and install be significantly better?

Andy

 

No doubt a fesh format would be better! But it all depends if you got the disk to do it. I dont know if its included.

May be a Studio 17 issue but im not 100%, It will hadle WOW fine and even MWF2 but not at 1080p and all the best settings.

 

I think relatively speaking, there wasn't much to remove. I looked at what I didn't want removed it with Revo and kept the rest. Some of the included software I happen to like, like that dock thingy.

 

On the other side of the coin, i don't believe the prices will go up. As far as i'm concerned, they've lost one customer already and god knows how many others.
If anything, they'll need to do something to put assurance back in the market.

Just bare in mind, there are also more and more very appealing rivals coming out.

 

My SXPS came with a seperate OS disk. I guess any other Dell laptop would too?

 

They certainly lost me. Had been anxiously waiting till January to purchase this laptop but have finally lost hope. Placed an order for an F11 today.

 

Ture I agree to a certain extent, maybe. But are the rivals the HP and the ASUS ? Because thye both have their faults.

 

I think the F11 is a pretty decent rival, in the EU it's about the same price point with Blu-Ray and a 100% Adobe RGB screen (understand that's not available in the U.S. though) .... although it does have its faults, they're relatively minor and have permanent workarounds in place.

Otherwise I would have gone for the new Envy 15 refresh but its non-customizable in the UK :S

 

Yes, but Dell say he wasn't banned, for that or for anything else. He just had some posts taken down because they broke the TOS. You can link through one of the comments (don't recall which one and CBA to find it again) on one of the posts you quoted, to an existing Dell forum post of tinkerdude's which links in turn to his magnum opus.

But if, as unclewebb says, he's been silenced by an NDA, then I'd guess that either Dell threatened to sue him if he didn't shut up, or they offered him a good deal of hardware provided he shut up. And probably both.

So when Dell come calling on unclewebb, he'll either be very much richer than now, or very much poorer, depending

 

Havent looked at the F11, shame aboutit not being in the U.S, was the main reason I bought the DELL was because of te exchange rate,

 

Now my GPU thottle...



Watch GPU and MEM frequency....

 

Bad choice of wording on my part It's available in the U.S., but not with the 100% Adobe RGB Screen ....

 

Guys, i tested my 1557 on external monitor and ac adapter

When Running only prime95, multiplier stays between 12 and 13 constant.

When i run furmark and prime95, core multiplier stays on 12. When CPU temperature hits 93c, it downclockes to x8, temperature drops till 86c. Then, multiplier starts rising again, and repeats the cycle.
1557 repeated this cycle 3 times, then automatically shutted off.

So, throttling (at least on external display) is caused by core overheating (when stressing both gpu and cpu). It does not throttle when only stressing cpu.

Oh, temperature here in Argentina is something around 33 or 34c... very hot!

I`ll run the same tests on it`s own 15" display

Some images:

Full Speed
http://img195.imageshack.us/i/97343319.jpg

After hitting 93c (cpu), and throttling to x8/x9.
http://img85.imageshack.us/i/96121100.jpg