S-XPS 1645 Throttling Info. and Updates

I will say i was amazed how HP responded to the Envy throttling on battery. Although a dissapointing response to many, the fact they responded on their forums with clear and sensible reasons was amazing. They responded more then once as well. They know it takes around 110w to sufficiently run the i7's as they mentioned that.

Only if dell could of done this a long time ago and actually talk to the community, instead of posting saying basicly nothing. But then again maybe they have something to hide of course, and they would look foolish.

Anyways, i thought id mention that. Dell could take some tips from hp over there, especially if they still think theyre going to beat this issue with a 90w adapter.

 

@ atlstang - i thought exactly the same thing with HPs response. Although it probably wasn't the answer many wanted, they gave a no-nonsense answer and justified their reasoning very well.
It would be nice knowing you could use max performance from battery but i doubt it's a major concern for most. Truth be told, for the whole time i had my XPS, it was always on 25% max processor setting on battery as all i used it for was an expensive netbook in bed. You're not going to get very far with max settings on battery - so when you need it you know you're going to revert to the AC adaptor anyway.

I guess HP made the choice for the end user - but at least they got it the right way round. And it's not like they have tried to cover anything up - they've said loud and clear they use this approach for most of their laptops.

Customer service goes a long way...

As for the Envy, i'd buy it in a flash. But i went to a store to check it out and i just know i couldn't live with that mousepad!

Think it'll be the Sony F Series now...

 

I think we all know, Dell knows the situation and is in CYA mode. How they respond to this will be completely bureaucratic and based on numbers. Problem is numbers and statistics can be screwed to easily. If they over value the near term or under estimate the effect of screwing over users temporally, this problem could persist.

If they would just accept pure number games are not the way to handle PR situations and just fix the problem right, no matter what it takes. I feel it would pay off for them in the long run.

 

I just spoke to a rep at sager, I wanted to know if I could get asimilar spec thats on my XPS and buy form them, I askes about the throtteling issue on there i7-720 and he said they dont have such an issue.

Is this true or is this a dell thing ?

 

Ask them what size adapter they use.. if its 120w+ it will probably be fine. The only other way they could maybe throttle would be for heat. But might have to find someone that has one and ask about that.

as far as i know, the crippling throttling issues when plugged in.. is a dell thing, mainly for their choice of 90w adapter.

 

The difference between a 90w and 130w adapter from Dell's perspective can't be more than like $5. They buy huge bulk quantities of them and then mark them up some hypothetical amount based on the actual power output and size. Swapping out 90's for 130's is prohibitively more expensive, but shipping the 130w in the first place is a drop in the bucket for a company like Dell.

 

Ah right so all these problems can be solved with a simple adapter upgrade and throttle stop ? Maybe I think im going to try the Atric 5 thing on the CPU and GPU see if that helps.

atlstang can you tell me if the i7 620 duel core is a better option than the i7 720 (If throtteling wasnt an issue).

 

honestly if i didnt have programs that run fluid simulations etc taking all 8 threads. I would be on the dual cores in a heartbeat. But those calc's take a looong time, and is worth it for me in the long run. As the usefulness of my laptop goes down the faster the perfomance difference between my desktop gets. As time is what it boils down to me.

For the avg user the dualcores are probably best, they use way less power, cooler, blazing fast. And most of all dont have throttling issues.

 

Hey guys, I just ordered the XPS 1645 today....after a whole month of research...I was going to buy the Asus G51jx-Aq...but after I talk to dell sales and they are offering me a free 4 year hard-ware warranty....I decided to go with them.... and now I see this whole throttling issue.....
I am really worried...so far it seems that there is going to be a new BIOS update tomorrow?? is it going to fix this issue?? and if I do get a 150w adapter, and use TS, then the throttling issue is completely solved?? I saw in the threat that even after the adapter changes, the BIOS still limited it to 90w??? please give me some classifications....

Should I cancel my order ??? I guess I could still do that....

Thanks for your time and advise...

 

I would take a wait and see approach for a bit, unless you desperately need your new laptop. You won't see it for quite awhile anyways. I ordered mine on January 6th, was supposed to be delivered today, but they emailed me, cancelled my original order, and opened a new, identical order to be delivered on *February 24th*. Could Dell be any less organized? Seriously, what is taking so long? How are HP's screens..? I ordered mine with a RGB screen, but if they're going to jerk me around I may look into some HP's instead of waiting for 2 months. -.- I wonder if this long of a delay means they're looking at the hardware in these machines, or unwilling to ship them out faster due to bios revisions...? I'm probably just giving them too much credit.

 

Have you thought about running a virtual desktop with logmein, then you can sup up a desktop and access it from your laptop, have the desktop run the simulations for you and transfer the finished calculation.

Just a suggestion.

 

I think it's a real missed opportunity if you get a laptop like the 1645 ought to be, and don't get BluRay - at least the reader, if not so much the writer.

And that's a part that will be a whole lot more expensive, if not impractical, to upgrade later.

Throttling or no throttling, I'd hold off on the 1645 until the BluRay is an option once more. Or look elsewhere - Sony Vaio F11, HP Envy 15, Sager, etc.

 

No dell only bans members from posting to thier forums and hopes the problem solves its self.

 

I think Dell spends more time monitoring the forum and deleting posts then in quality control, which in turn would cause less people from wasting there time complaining in there forums.

 

Or ... the laptop could simple perform properly, as it was advertised to do, without throttling due to an artificially induced handicap programmed in by Dell.

If he wanted to do the calculations elsewhere, he could have purchased a $300 netbook.

FWIW my M1530 will only throttle itself as it approaches the thermal limits of the CPU or the GPU.

 

It is true, remoting in just isnt practical. Bookkeeping different version of models/files is a nightmare on one computer. Even big projects can be up to gig's of computed data. The best part of doing it on a lappy, you can take it anywhere and work just about anywhere with different ppl etc. Logging in over the net and sending all that data back and forth just isnt an option..

I will say, opening the huge car model i did in my undergrad. It used to take about 5 min to autorebuild all the mates. The i7 chop through that in a matter for seconds not minutes, as i used that as a little benchmark. Old lappy was a very old and abused HP C2D.



As for Dell's stance on the issue. They never really jumped out to me as a company serious about solving this problem. I was just surprised HP being a big company was talking right with their customers. Like someone said a little customer service does go a long way. If they had someone communicating whats going on directly with updates, im not sure if i would of sent the laptop back or be so i guess you could say bitter. All we really have gotten so far, was the updates through ikjadoon, which is great btw. As of now its been 2 months since the issue was first discovered, and still very little peep from dell.

 

I thought it was practically three months. Wasn't it discovered in November? I agree though, a virtual desktop is just about as much a hassle as throttling!

 

Throttlegate goes back over a year on various Dell systems.

 

To the 1645 in particular i think is just a cursed laptop. Some people i think ordered early october and september and didnt receive them til months later(december i think). The first started arrive around mid november or maybe slightly earlier. I think it was late november people started noticing something was up, when changing the brightness gave them better results in 3dmark, and hence the throttle issues appeared. Never less its been a while, and dells still mum on the subject it seems.

But to as throttlegate, latitudes i think been over a year throttling til dell finally said they had a fix. And it turns out it was a bios update with no real fix. Which is why i dont hold much faith in dell doing the right thing :-/

 

The throttling Latitude E6400 was reviewed by CNET on August 21, 2008 after it was released on August 12, 2008. Over 17 months is an awfully long time to have a serious problem that to this day has still never been solved.

It was covered up a little last December with a fresh bios release and a big PR campaign but the Latitudes still throttle when pushed hard.

That track record doesn't give me a lot of faith that this new generation of throttling laptops will be properly fixed.

The XPS 1640 throttles too. Maybe Dell thinks this is like the Olympics where each generation of throttling laptop must pass the torch to the next generation. If the XPS 1647 with a Core i7-720 and an ATI 4670 card comes with a 90 watt adapter then the tradition will likely continue.

 

Yea, that's the point. He could have a cheap alternative. If it's not for him then I don't have a problem with that, it was just a suggestion.

I wish Dell would be more open about the problem, all we hear is we are looking in to it. What could possible take 3 months to look in too.I think they are just sitting on there thumbs.

 

I know how you feel, rendering 3d models, transcending videos. Pretty much the same reason I opted for the quad core. I hope you get the Envy 15 soon I really do want to get your opinion on it. Since we kinda look for the same thing.

 

That is kind of the kicker isnt it. With all the test bios that still throttle, and promises of a fix that never came but supposedly still is with no reall date. And no communication to say whats going on, except trust us. Really get the feeling its not a company thats going to buckle down and put a proper solution. More like a company out of control, twiddling their thumbs hoping it just goes away.

I should have the envy by tuesday by that latest, maybe monday or sat. Fedex really sucks on that. But yeah, i think mobile means something else people like us. Usually its how many hours ya can go on battery etc, but to me its i can get away from my desktop and work hours on end elsewhere with near the same performance.

 

Since this isn't a heat related issue, i should notice throttling right away right? I wouldn't have to play for a long time to experience it? I've throw every benchmark and even tried a bit of Crysis and i still can't get my machine to throttle. So would you guys say that i should be safe with my new Studio 14? Sorry to keep coming back to the same point...just want to be certain before my return window expires.

 

run the tests with throttlestop set to monitor but not intervene, if no throttle, then no problem.

 

Again, this is not a 3 month issue. It's approaching 2 years now.

 

Fedex sucks big. Mine just entered the US coming from Japan. I should have the Envy also by Tuesday. Lets see how this puppy can stack up to the Xps 16.

Excited!!

 

Ugh. My order is supposed to come in February 4th, but now I'm worried if it will even get here. Has anyone received a 1645 lately?

I thought long and hard about canceling my order after reading about the throttling issue, but I haven't found another decent i7 + RGBLED laptop, let alone for the same price.

 

For throttlegate yes, your are correct. But in all fairness the 1645 specific problem seems to be a bit differentof, the reason why. They had 2-3 months to look into the 1645 problems, which is something to state as its been a while. As they keep promising a fix the next week etc

I dunno if its where i live or what. But fedex always take for ever to ship anything. UPS will ship things here ASAP, from some places next day with 3 days shipping option. but with fedex 5-7 days really means 5-7days. Mines just sittin in memphis probably til monday lol.

 

I agree the blu ray is a must but it was unavailble when I ordered mine so I have retrofitted one myself!

In all fairness it cost £75 for a reader off e-bay (Dell wanted to charge £100) and it took about 45 min to fit and works perfectly. It's not a difficult upgrade. I have produced a step by step guide which can be found here:

http://forum.notebookreview.com/showthread.php?t=450655

 

Actually fedex ground delivers as soon as they arrive, but express will hold it until the scheduled date. I think UPS priority does the same.

 

Ah really, i just must be in a bad location. The normal shipping i use for them seems to be always a day or 2 longer then UPS for me. (from the same locations)

Good news is you have 21 days to return your laptop when you first receive it. So you have options if it affects you and you really cant stand it. If you know your going to be doing graphics intensive/gaming etc, might want to check into getting an adapter. Throttlestop will be very good in helping you see if throttling is a problem for your stuff you want to do. Not sure i myself have heard anyone getting one lately, most talk been about returns in that area.

 

Also, if you really want one quickly, there's a TON of Studio XPS 16's on the Dell outlet. The only problem that I'm seeing however, is they're pretty poorly priced. My 4gb/500gb/1gb 4670/RGB/Bluetooth/Intel Wifi/DVDRW/Win 7 Premium setup was around 1550 when I ordered it, and the majority of the prices for that setup I'm seeing are closer to 1800. Really makes you wonder just what Dell is trying to pull.

 

You need the adapter to check if your throtteling right ?
Got mine today going to run some tests and get back to you.

 

Adapter is only needed if you use throttlestop or other tools to block the throttling.

You can use throttlestop just to monitor for throttling with the standard adapter.

 

Ty will try it when I get home from work tonight, see what I get although im not hopeful.

 

I keep looking there to see if I can catch a good deal. They haven't listed any xps 16's, or 13's in at least 24 hours.

 

fluffyuk: I did use TS on my laptop and played COD MW2 and it started flawlessly. fast and direct response, just what you would expect from a combination of i7 720qm and 4670 1GB,like my laptop has.
I only didn't put the laptop in standby state be4 playing so after about 20 mins it began stuttering because another little defect.

@all: I checked my laptop specs with sisoftware sandra 2010
i7 720qm max power 45W
chipset P55/PM55 5W
ATI 4670 1GB 35W
Total 85W (Watt the ****)
leaves 5W for mobo, RGBLED screen, SSD

DELL has to solve this problem. the laptop is underpowered by default.
I think blueray uses more power and Dell didn't want to push power consumption more over limits.

definitely 90W has to be replaced with 130W or 150W power supply (lucky I own a PA-15)

 

The sorting is really screwed up. They really need to update the outlet page. If you choose "1000" for video card and "at least 320gb HD" and "at least 4000" for memory, you'll see the Studio 16's. At least that's what I did anyways. Even though they're not in the sort list, they're in there. It's been broken like that for more than a month! -.- I see a good 10 pages of Studio 16's, the hard part is just finiding them!

 

Its a bit worse then just that, the i7 720qm's tend to pull more power then that 45w it would seem. If you look at the main page, ya can see it will take the laptop up to the bios throttling limit of 90w(from the wall but is what bios throttles too) just loading the cpu alone. The measured wattage for games etc tends to be around 100-100w (which hp mentioned in their i7 laptops as well). Max my system could pull with everything stressed was 130w, others with rgbled screens etc said they reached as high as 146w.

 

Another Friday and I still don't see any new bios updates listed on the Dell website. Wasn't this supposed to be another one of those special days that users could expect this issue to be fixed by? Whose turn is it today to phone India to ask Dell what the deal is?

 

Lol dont it, there response was.

"Dont be concerned we are working on getting perminant fix, we will post it on the site as soon as we have it"

Unclewebb what specs is your laptop ?

 

I have a Dell Inspiron 8100 which has a Pentium III - 1133 MHz. Not too speedy but it doesn't burn through my lap, the CPU fan is almost always off, my dog can lay on the adapter without losing a patch of fur, it comes out of stand by mode almost instantly and most importantly, it doesn't throttle.

I wanted to buy an XPS 1645 last December but I have no regrets that I didn't. I've waited so long now that I'm going to keep waiting until I hear about a quality product that doesn't throttle from a company that is honest with their customers and treats them like they are important and not something stuck on the bottom of their shoe. I've been a long time Dell laptop fan but at the moment, I would have a hard time recommending any of their products to my worst enemy let alone a friend. Too many problems in too many of their products and their customer service has dropped down to zero in my books.

I mostly use my desktop computer and I haven't had a huge need for a laptop computer for the last few years so I can wait.

 

Like you said you have waited so long what another couple of months ? In your opinion do you think that they wil be able to fix it ? and will the increase in the adapter power not make the modles that are being released atm break? As tey are not designedto take that wattage ?

And why isnt everyone just buying them anyway and using throttle stop? because if it works and the deals are soo good atm.

 

Lots of users don't want to depend on a third party app. ThrottleStop helps this situation but it's still a band-aid solution. It's up to Dell to fix this problem properly.

These laptops run at close to full speed when on battery power so that's a pretty good sign that some extra wattage going through the motherboard is not going to damage anything. Just more FUD to scare users.

Not everyone wants to waste countless hours dealing with a company that has a sales team that tells one lie after another.

Can Dell fix this issue? Sure, it would be easy to update a bios and ship a 130 watt adapter. Will they do it? I don't believe they will but let's wait another month and see what happens.

I just picked up a Sapphire Vapor-X 5770 the other day and the power consumption and heat output at idle is incredible. Dell needs to get the new ATI 5000 series into their laptops ASAP. It would help solve a lot of problems.

 

Nicee I read some were that the i5 allows switchable graphics card, does the i7-720QM ? as maybe whe nthe 5 series comes out I could switch it to cut down on some of the power issues ?

I understand its the mo-board that allows the switching not the CPU, but I think you get what im saying.

 

TDP watt ratings do not equal watts drawn unless its a 100% efficient heater. I believe GPU/CPU are not designed as a heater first, so you have to believe they convert at least some of the watts drawn into other work. TDP ratings are given as guide for the amount of heat the cooling system needs to move out of the system to keep the hardware from overheating.

 

Small offtopic:
I've complained about my 90W power supply that it's very hot and Dell send me new one. I didn't have to send back the old one.

Anyway I've had 6 faulty parts in my XPS 1645 (main board, HDD, LCD, Battery, power supply and some connectors)
Dell finally ofered me a new replacement (after 8 helpdesk calls).
I can keep my laptop until new one will arive.

Dell knew about the Throtling problem but they didn't know when it will be fixed (called from UK).
As a solution for the throttling they offered me to buy Alien model as they don't have throttling problems. I would have to pay the difference.

I've decided to get XPS 1645 again (just updated WIFI to N and asked for bluetooth - paid extra £62 for that)

I'm playing games on min brightness anyway, so I can wait magic BIOS update.

 

There's not really any other way energy can escape from cpu beside heat. The total energy in the world need to remain same.

 

gszech: There is an 87 page thread here on Notebook Review about the Dell Alienware M15x throttling problems.

http://forum.notebookreview.com/showthread.php?t=439546&page=87

Both CPU and GPU are throttling for those guys. It sounds like you were told more lies by the Dell sales team you spoke with. At least the M15x comes with a 150 watt adapter so with the help of RivaTuner and ThrottleStop you can use your laptop the way it was intended to be used.