S-XPS 1645 Throttling Info. and Updates

@malkie0831 Yes, I didn't really mean it to that extent, but I don't think they went out of the way to completely redo the BIOS for the 1645 when they can carry some over from the 1640. Thus, in the rush of things they didn't bother to consider or look over the throttling's impact on the system.

I don't of course know everything that is involved in coding for the BIOS but I don't think it necessarily invalidates my speculation as impossible.

 

Yes I'm sure you're correct, with very short product lead times it can and does happen.

 

When did I ask a user how bad their laptop throttles, and what makes you think I didn't ask engineering to properly test products before shipping them? And if I were looking to find out how bad a laptop throttles, do you think I'd get the fastest, most comprehensive, honest answer from a Dell engineer or from an angry customer?

I only asked if the 1640 throttles, because I had not seen that complaint anywhere before. However, I will size the issue and take it up with the engineers. Thanks for so graciously pointing it out.

 

Good one. On the list.

 

Latitude E-Series throttling is an entirely different implementation and for entirely different reasons from what I was told in meetings with engineers. We plan no further changes to the thermal tables for E-Series. Last I heard was the degree or if any throttling at all on E2 was still being debated.

 

And dont forget ALL the other laptops Bill.

For instance what about the alienware 15 with throttling problems?

All Dell laptops seem to have throttling.

This is NO!! coincidence.

 

Probably not but at least they are adressing it. And secondly we can bi*ch and moan all we like but it wont get us any were. Best thing to do if you have a valid question post it if not lets all stop spamming the thread until tomorrow when we get soem more info.

Cool ?

 

Good question. On the list.

 

Because dell don't care us, they only care is profit

how come a core i7 laptop get freaking lag whenever there are air support or gender use with minimum setting in cod 6 multi players map

Seriously, even a 2 years old laptop won't lag in COD

But thanks dell ,

Sxps 16 makes this ! This is "awesome"

 

It's the heat sink for the DC-in jack on the mobo that I was worried about. If I tell you to keep an eye on it later, unclewebb will chastize me for not telling the engineers to test it.

 

Bill Im sure Dell already know which laptops throttle,

or if they don't I find it hard to believe they give the job to one of their bloggers.

No need for asking us.

Please treat us with a bit of respect.

We are all not so naive.

 

I concur. I won't be here tomorrow though. I'm on vacation from the 5th through the 16th.

It is entirely pointless to get out of hand, and to get off topic for what Bill is here for, being: the SXPS 16, specifically the SXPS 1645, throttling. Other issues will have to be dealt with in their due course.

 

Please keep it civil, and focus to the problem at hand. we can burn the bridge later, but right now lets focus questions on the throttling problem of the 1645 and its derivitives.

I think a solution should take the priority right now, and bill is letting us ask questions and will be getting us answers. So lets not waste this opportunity we have been waiting months for

 

I am tracking Alienware M15x, Studio 1747, Studio XPS 1645, and now Studio XPS 1640 for throttling. I have answered for Latitude E-Series, in that there will be no further changes on that platform. Alienware M15x is a different story. Last I checked, the official response, right or wrong, was that we believed throttling to only occur in synthetic scenarios and not real world gaming.

You say "all" Dell systems throttle. I am not so sure that's an accurate statement. Please provide evidence of systems beyond those above that I am aware of, and I will be happy to track them and escalate accordingly.

 

For one, I wouldn't know what the load and acceptable heat would be. You would be getting subjective opinions that would be all over the place.

But I was wondering if you could inquire about the screen flickering on the RGB monitors. The screen does flicker but it can be hard to see, until you use it for a while. It did this on my original and on the replacement.

I think it has something to do with AMD/ATI's software trying to alter the brightness and the RGB does distort the colors temporally while changing the brightness.

Again this is not a complaint about the RGB distorting while changing the brightness, this is about a slight flicker/distortion ( which makes it look like a flicker) lasting a few ms. It may not sound like much but it can get a bit irritating.

 

Respect is a two way street. I will reply in kind when you address me by name. It does not bother me in the least when you disparage Dell, as it is everyone's right to have opinions, whether you own our products or not. However, I'm no one's door mat.

 

Totally agreed with that, YES it's a very bad problem, but hey we got they're attenntion, and that's the first step.
we need to focus on the problem indeed

Thnx Bill B for responding to our questions and add them to a list
btw one sidenote question: will the new BIOS solve the subtle flickering on (RGB)displays.

 

I think I saw some updates on this before. I will check for the information and post back whatever I can find.

I have to run home and get some family time in before the call, folks. Nice chatting with you. I shall return.

 

You have to realise that we have been the doormat since 3 months ago.


I'm sorry if I offended you.

 

Dell-Bill_B

Can I invite you to post this question in the Dell Community Forum devoted to this topic - 'DELL Studio XPS 16 1645 i7 power problem'

http://en.community.dell.com/forums/p/19306277/19645032.aspx?PageIndex=20

To be honest, I'm a little suprised you didn't post there first.

 

@bill This thread is mainly for the xps 16's so that is where most of our stuff comes from. But for the m15x, i would look at this thread here and contact 5150joker about it and make sure there is no issues http://forum.notebookreview.com/showthread.php?t=439546

Last time i checked there were screenshots of l4d2 and gpu downclocking in a real world case. But again this is xps 16 stuff here so it be best to ask him. Although i admit they do a lot of synthetic testing over there. Those real world benches Here Here and Here

This is just for your info in if you wish to pursue it more. And thanks again bill

 

Hey Bill, Will the new bios + PSU cause more heat? Im just wondering because (as you may already know) when the lid on the 1645 is open it blocks the fan vents. I am wondering if this will cause the unit to throttle again due to overheating?

May be a silly question, sorry to all if it is.

 

Yes, Bill, mine flickers, too.

I'm one of those folks who had been authorized a return for a defective product but when it came right down to it - I couldn't send it in. That's not to say I had total faith in Dell to come through with a fix but that I knew that I could pretty much achieve what I needed with unclewebb's Throttlestop and a 150 watt power supply. With that said, I would say that unclewebb's contribution and IKJADOON's contact with a certain Dell representative gave me hope that there would eventually be a resolution to the problem.

With that said, besides the flicker and throttling, I had a problem with keyboard commands and freezing that may have been fixed in the subsequent bios update. It also may have been a result of Throttlestop or something else, but when you put the computer in standby or to sleep and brought it back up, it seemed to work okay. Check this out for me please.

Thanks again for being our advocate on this problem with Dell. It is appreciated.

 

Bill, thanks for your updates.

If there is still time, I would add the question that I posted over at http://en.community.dell.com/forums/t/19319557.aspx. My question addresses the communication issue, in particular the clarity of the BIOS release notes. As a software developer, if I released an update to one of my products with so little documentation, I would feel that I was acting unprofessionally and unethically towards my clients. What steps are Dell going to take to ensure that issues such as this one will be adequately communicated to end-users? As an owner of 4 Dell laptops so far, the answer to this question will go a long way to ensuring that my next machine is again a Dell.

On a side not, t've noticed quite a few wanky posts in this thread over the last few days and I'd like to inject a little bit of the opposite. Software takes time to write. Software for low level (BIOS, chipset, etc.) takes even longer. Whilst I understand that stress levels are high due to apprehension whether this issue will be adequately fixed, and the poor communication from Dell at times, at no point has Dell stated that they won't fix the problem. They have repeatedly come out and said it will take time to investigate, and it will take time to fix. There's no need to be a douch3 to sales staff that are only going off the information that they have available. Yes there is a communication problem, but the best way of solving that problem is to communicate better, not worse.

 

At no point have Dell admitted that there even is a problem.
That was the point of the Chat.
Do you think I doing this for fun?
As I said before ring them up and ask them if there is problems with laptops Bill listed?

As as far as fixing the problem what will happen to E6400 owners?
Did they get their fix?

According to Bill "I have answered for Latitude E-Series, in that there will be no further changes on that platform. "

ie. there will be no fix for them!

I'm only telling the truth.

 

While I understand your frustration, lashing out at Bill isn't going to solve anything. He is the first Dell representative to really spend time talking to the community about this issue. Don't shoot the messenger.

I'm not saying we need to act grateful for him talking to us, but we can be gracious and respectful.

 

They kind of told us there was a fix coming. But they led us on to believe it was a bios only fix. Which obviously isnt the answer/cause of the problem, being underpowered. Now we seem to have communication maybe a few months late, lets just be happy with that for now.

The latitude throttling is bad, even if they dont plan on fixing it. If they have heat problems causing throttling thats an issue, bottom line theyre not fixed. Sometimes theres more to problems then bios, but that is dells call to make and the consumers right to be angry/concerned/hurt reputation etc.

 

I apologize Dell-Bill_B. My anger was not directed at you but at a company that has shipped way too many products with issues over the last 18 months and has spent far too much time in denial about these issues. I'm very happy for users that it finally looks like this issue is being taken seriously and something is going to be done about it.

Many Dell laptops are throttling and they are throttling for a reason. The engineers that designed them are well aware of the issues. They might be keeping you in the dark but this is not something that just accidentally happened on this one product. Dell laptops throttle by design. An XPS 1640 that is only running at 800 MHz while trying to play a game instead of 2400 MHz is definitely throttling.

Gaming is a huge industry. Dell needs to test their laptops with modern games so an appropriately rated power adapter is included with their laptops so throttling doesn't have to be used to try and control power consumption. If a laptop is not capable of the CPU and GPU being used simultaneously then users have to be made aware of that limitation on the sales page and not after the fact.

It shouldn't be up to the end user to do free product testing for Dell. These laptops should never have been shipped in their current state.

Thank you Bill for finally getting the wheels in motion and coming up with a solution.

 

I would assume that Dell probably did attempt to fix the problem using only the 90w power supply. I work in the test industry and untill all software solutions are examined hardware fixes aren't even considered.

With the 90w power supply, I would be willing to guess that there were other issues that cropped up such as the existing power supply overheating. My main concern now is the heat exhaust on the entire Studio line. I like that the screen swings back but it may prove to be a large issue later.

Hopefully that doesnt become the new problem to plague this style of laptop.

 

The 90w power supply is the problem along with the bios.

 

Well!!! I just got off a 45 min phone call with Bill. He explained quite a bit to me as to the reasons why no information was really making it out and what dells current position is and why they are actively talking now. I personally believe him and trust that there is a genuine desire in the senior echelons of dell to make this right... Obviously there is still alot they cant say and still decisions to be made.

I am satisfied that we now have thier attention and there will be a solution.

Im still not satisfied overall with dells customer service and tech support and order system / sales but thie is a BIG step in the right direction.

 

Hello! Sorry for OT but I really hope that you can tell the Studio 1747 users here and here similar good news?!

 

Dear Bill,

First let me thank you for the updates, good vibes heading your way from Tokyo

Just so you know I bought mine @ Dell Japan and I'm facing the throttling issue as well.
I called Dell Japan's Support but my Japanese is still poor. After struggling, from what I understand they don't have any knowledge of that issue and there's no way they'll send me a new AC Adapter.
I would really appreciate if you could PM me as well for updates and if a fix means sending a new AC Adapter, just make sure I'll be abl to get one.

Best regards,

I.

 

wow, that's quite a turnaround for you...wish i was a fly on the wall during that phone call

 

I just purchased a new Envy 15 b/c of the throttling issue.... Envy is on the way, and I'm still well within my 21 says on my XPS 1645. I guess I'll give it another week or so to see which system is going to be returned based on how this shakes out. :-/

 

Well said Unclewebb. I have to use throttle stop not only for Gaming but for seriousDevelopment. It's just runs faster and doesn't lag with throttle stop! I was purchasing this laptop thinking it will be one of the best laptop in price/performance range.

Company I'm working for - bought 2 of these laptops (1645). I don't think they going to buy anymore Dells. Java Aps a running slower than it suppose to.

Throttle stop helps + disabling battery charge / lowering brightness and all kind of shaman dance I don't think I should be doing in for 1.7k

Please find a solution.

Regards,
Asgaroth

 

I hear what your sayin but im sure they have a dell rep in there allready... i dont think he manages the entire internet for the 1645

 

You, sir, are a breath of fresh air... thanks for your efforts on behalf of all of us!

 

FedEx, UPS, Royal Mail, Pony Express - I don't mind at all which.

One thing though - please don't make us wait for the BIOS before sending out the 130w adaptors.

That way, we can run ThrottleStop as our little dog until our big dog comes.

 

I will do that now. I wanted to focus on this thread first, as I think this is where the issue was initially raised. I intended to ask one of the liaisons, Todd or Brad, to post there, but they were out of the office this afternoon when I first posted here, and I was pretty tied up answering everyone the best I could here.

 

NBR? What does that mean/stand for?

 

Note Book Review members= NBR

 

@ Winks2872 or Bill. So, what exactly is their reasons for 'no information' and 'Dell's current position' and 'why they are actively talking now'?

I would like to say though I feel a bit justified in the way things are turning out.

 

There will be something though, won't there, to compensate us all for our grief, and our loyalty?

My 1645 has been sitting idle for two months while Dell hummed and haaed over this, in case I had to send it back.

The least you could do is extend my warranty by that period, and I do rather expect you to do more than just the least you could do.

Oh, and you might want to send Unclewebb a free one, if he would like that, as he's been about the only one keeping us onside all this time.

 

I give credit when its due and dont mind saying if im wrong.. i trust in bills intentions and im confident he believes there will be a fix in a reasonable period of time... i think hes genuine. does that mean im not pissed off for all i have had to go through..... im still very pissed off and until i see a functional fix i would not advise anyone to purchase a 1645. Its great hes here and helping... big plus but it doesnt change that we have gone through so much for a PREMIUM machine that should of been smoking out of the box.

 

Im not going to speak for bill but from what i understand they wanted to get all the factual information together first so there would be no confusion... plus engineering time ect... also it seems our forum in particular got alot of heads turned so once again a big hats off to alstang unclewebb and all who posted regularly and pushed for a solution.

 

"I hear what your sayin but im sure they have a dell rep in there allready... i dont think he manages the entire internet for the 1645"

Your point is taken winks2872.

When I said 'you' to Dell-Bill B, I meant 'Dell'.

Dell should be communicating this information to their customers through the Dell channels (Direct2Dell and Dell Channel Blogs) first, before releasing information on independent sites like this. (All respect to Notebook review).

The frustration and anger that are voiced on the Dell forums, goes unanswered by our Dell Forum moderator who occasionaly offers such reasuring news as 'we are looking into it', 'please be patient' and the latest 'Hopefully I'll have some good news after a conference call I'm having'.

Dell customers should hear about things like this from Dell, not from an independent site. Otherwise what is the point of the Dell forums?

Rant over.

 

Well in that case the CPU and GPUs will throttle to prevent damage. But I can tell you I've ran Supreme commander ( a pretty GPU and CPU intensive game) for about 45 min under battery and heat was not a problem at all when looking at the logs.

People with throttle stop have already ran these systems very hard with heat well within acceptable ranges.

 

I have shared a PM with 5150joker. John is our AW PR contact, so I have been pretty much leaving that thread to him, but I have been tracking it in my weekly reporting. The last official word I got from AW engineering was as I stated above. I promise I will revisit this topic with John and the engineers ASAP in light of the fact that there are posts showing real world examples of throttling on that box.

I believe they tested for heat, and all of the comments I have seen on this thread (yes, I've been following it for a couple of months myself) indicate no thermal issues at heavy load with TS+130W and higher AC adapters. If we do have an exhaust problem due to extra heat discharge, I would speculate we would address that problem similarly to the method used for the Studio XPS 1340, which was a new vent cover that angled the exhaust down, and seemed to have worked pretty successfully.

Wink, wink on the certain Dell employee. Let's get this new BIOS and AC adapter swap program off the ground first, and take the new issues to a new thread either here or on the Dell forums. If threads specific to those issues already exist, please point me to them, and I will get them on our radar.

Glad to help the best I can.

This is historically an issue with Dell. I have posed the question a few times, and received varying answers. I have it on my list to bring up tonight. the meeting starts in about 20 minutes. I'm rushing to answer these last few posts first.

 

Hi Brad *
just a quick question will the 1747 be concerned with this meeting?
As you know they are throtteled too.
Thanks