S-XPS 1645 Throttling Info. and Updates

It's never too early to start the dialog. Persistence tends to work better than anything else with regards to Dell's customer throttling...err service.

 

What's supposed to be the part number on the 210-watt adapter? pa-xx?

Edit: It's PA-7E - 210-watt adapter. Hard to find unless you want it with the port replicator for $180 - the PA-4E/130-watt looks like the best one. Why? It's slim model and has the rubber strap, whereas the PA-15 and PA-7E don't have a rubber strap and are much bigger.

 

If they ever do come out with a bios update, that would be my biggest fear. I wouldn't be first in line to install it, that's for sure.

I'm trying to stay one step ahead of them. That's why I added the chipset modulation option to ThrottleStop which is already being used in the Dell Alienware M15x.

Anyone sitting on the edge of their seat waiting for a bios update to solve this problem is going to be disappointed. There is nothing you can do at the bios level to make these computers work properly if you only have a 90 watt adapter plugged into it.

The reviews on Dell's website show that most users are happy with their throttling XPS 1645 because I assume that most of them are not gamers or simply don't know any better. The only proper fix is a bios update AND a 130 watt adapter or greater. Is Dell going to be motivated to fix this issue properly to keep a small percentage of users happy? My guess is, probably not.

 

There is no way DELL will be replacing those 90W adapters. That's a big cost for them. That being said, they will not fix the throttling issues because simply they know these adapters can only handle 90w. So, im really anxious to see what will this new Bios bring to the table.

 

Is it possible that Dell could build in different throttling profiles for different AC adaptors? Or would that be admitting a mistake?

 

anything is possible, so many different people from dell saying so many different things, its impossible to know really whats going on. There does seem a common denominator and that is they seem to believe 90w its plenty for this laptop. Which is laughable. At least that seems to be a common thing in a lot of peoples convo's. Thats really the issue is, they seem to believe 90w is enough.

Given the history with the latitudes, and the lackluster/weird responses we have been getting. Ill make the prediction that they dont seem to be acting like a company thats going to solve the issue. In fact ill bet they release a bios update saying case close and all is well, much like the latitudes. but like the latitudes we will still throttle.

Which is why it is very important we spread this issue. More people knowing about it, the less chance dell's damage control will work. It would be unethical and should be criminal for them to do this.

 

I am experiencing the same issue.

I contacted DELL who stated:

1. they acknowledge there is an issue
2. that a BIOS fix is due on Monday
3. that if this fix does no solve the issue they will send me a new powersupply
4. while they have previously shipping new powersupplies it did not resolve the issue (dir!, you need a throttlestop or equivalent!) and suggested I wait until monday before I take the issue further. (i.e demand a refund/ product upgrade / compensation etc)

My personal feelings on this are:

1. I do not think they can resolve this issue with a BIOS fix alone, but happy to give it a try and if it doesnt work I will request request a 130W powersupply.

2. That moving to the 130W PS will cuase overheating. (Which previous models suffered from). I suspect I will need a new motherboard and heat sinc if we move to the 130W powersupplies which apparantly allow your computer to get much hotter (which is obvious due to the lack of throttling).

Thanks,

M

 

Why you think it will overheat on the 130W? My understanding is, If the battery can suck more than 90W this means the capacitors on the mobo can handle additional wattage which means the 130W will not be a problem to the mobo(heating issues).

 

I agree entirely with this point. If the mobo can suck the juice from the battery then there is no difference between doing that and sucking it from the adapter. In my opinion it is scare talk from Dell to cover themselves from sending out everyone a 130W power supply....

 

Look what just popped up on DELL USA. Looks like the launch will be soon for the 1647.

 

On the Dutch Dell site there is a Bios A00 for the 1647, dated dec 1st 2009... No actual 1647 on that site though.

 

God I can't believe it.

I was using the Danish company Zepto as my favo option, as my experiences with them were great. But since they went down and their prices were too high, I decided to switch to Dell.

In September I bought a 1640, with T9600 and RGBLED 16", this one was working perfectly and run everything smoothly. Last month they had a wild sale on 1645 with the i7, so I sold my old 1640 to a family member and ordered a 1645 to myself, since I'm a performance addict I also ordered it with SSD. I waited a month to get it delivered, but I could live with that because I only thought about the performance increase I would get from the i7+SSD.

It's actually slower than my old setup! ?!

This drove me totally mad, when I began to lagg in WOW and other games I used to play on my old machine. Start-up times was better, but not much (HDD improved, CPU crippled). UI navigation was around same, but with small lags sometimes when I had many things running (duh, Dell, it's a quad core, it's invented for multitasking, and you cripple it down to being worse than a C2D?).

I am very disappointed with it. But it leaves me to very little choice as other laptop makers either too expensive compared with the hardware you get, or has a dumb design and is still too expensive.

I live in Denmark, where we pay a lot of tax, so the prices for laptops are sky high.

My T9600 setup:
12,500.00 DKK
=
2,407.18 USD

My i7 setup:
9,500.00 DKK
=
1,829.55 USD

I also can't believe that they are playing around with the users like that, treat us like trash-bags where they drop their trashy products at. Don't get it wrong though, I love my XPS1640, it's a great computer with good design, but why treat us like this when we by OURSELF discovered this issue? And by ourself I do not mean me, but you guys who really did an amazing piece of work.

Well that's just mine 2 cents, you can call me 'another unstatisfied random member who sign up to tell us that he also got butt'd', but seriously this is redicoulus.

PS: If they decide to block ThrottleStop in their next BIOS update to 'fix' this issue, I hope that everyone in here will do a big move against Dell, whatever it will be it must be done, because this can't continue.
*Subscribed to this thread*
EDIT: And I really don't know what to do, get the 150W supply (since it can drain up to 145), or return my product, but in exchange for what?

 

""Performance you need. When you need it.

The Dell Studio XPS 16 delivers the ultimate multimedia experience with an optional full 1080p Hi-def widescreen display and optional Blu-ray DiscTM player. It also has a fast 8ms response time for a crisp, clear resolution during fast-action video and gaming. The optional RGBLED display provides a 100% color gamut for truer, more vibrant colors. When compared to the previous CoreTM 2 Duo generation of processors, the Intel® CoreTM i7 Quad-Core series performance has increased up to 137%""

Taken from the XPS page on DELL'S site. Isnt the highlighted considered false advertising and promising whats not delivered??

 

Sony just released a laptop with the close specs but cheaper about $400. I returned my DELL i7 laptop like you did and am considering buy this one from sony (By the way, Have you gotten your refund yet? I have not)

 

What series?

 

SONY F11 $1999 - 7% discount for being student = Total $1859. (without TAX)

Genuine Windows® 7 Professional 64-bit
Intel® Core™ i7-820QM processor (1.73GHz)
16.4" VAIO Premium Display (1920x1080)
NVIDIA® GeForce® GT 330M GPU (1GB VRAM)
Fresh Start No additional Office Software
4GB (2GBx2) DDR3-SDRAM-1333
500GB 7200rpm
Blu-ray Disc™ player
Keyboard Backlight
Large Capacity Battery
3 Years Warranty

My returned Dell SXPS 1645 costed me about 2,400 including discount already ????? Even if buy one now is cheaper when I bought mine, it's still more expensive. For example,

DELL 1645 $2663- discount $394 = Total $2269 (without Tax)

Intel® Core™ i7-820QM Quad Core Processor @ 1.73GHz
Genuine Windows® 7 Professional, 64bit, English edit
3 Year Basic Service Plan edit
Full HD Widescreen 16.0 inch RGBLED LCD (1920x1080) W/2.0 MP
6GB Shared Dual Channel DDR3 at 1333MHz
500GB 7200 RPM SATA Hard Drive
8X Slot Load CD/DVD Burner (Dual Layer DVD+/-R Drive)
ATI Mobility RADEON® HD 4670 – 1GB
85 WHr 9-cell Lithium Ion Primary Battery


The diffenreces between them are Sony Has Bluray Dirve but use Nvidia GT330M (not sure if it is worse than ATI 4670)and not RGB Screen (but Sony premium display seem to be very good already and Sony got reputation about display quality) including 4GB of Ram

DELL doesn't have Bluray option but comed with 6GB of ram and cost more $400. About the material quality. I dont think Dell is better than Sony (IMO, SONY is better)

I always here people complaint that SONY is too pricey. But for this case, I don't think so at all. SONY is cheaper about $400

 

Yes I got a full refund. It took them almost a week to post it.

 

This is rediculous Core i7-620 is DUAL core, Dell is replacing 1645 quad cores with dual cores to their customers?!?!

Do people realize that the 1647 is CHEAPER than 1645? If anyone has exchanged it, make sure you get a partial refund too!

 

Here's the i7-620 Mobile line up.

http://processorfinder.intel.com/List.aspx?ParentRadio=All&ProcFam=0&SearchKey=i7-620

You're right loco stevie. A couple of cores just went missing. Intel has a very confusing product line up when an i7-620 is a Dual Core and an i7-720 is a Quad Core. How's the average consumer supposed to keep this straight when a Core i5-750 Desktop CPU is a Quad Core.

Edit: You need to be very aware when shopping at Dell. The average shopper is going to see this marketed as being able to handle 4 Threads and will likely assume that they are buying a new Quad Core CPU. Wrong. It's a Dual Core with hyper threading.

 

...
.....

 

I'm calling dell tomorrow to see the status on my escalation for return.

REALLY interested in that 12" Alienware with the 330m..... really interested...

That or the HP Envy update and huge price drop.

 

Hi everybody,

here is an image of a 90 W power supply you might be interested in, which I found in a German forum discussing the throttling/power issue of XPS 16 with i7. This doen't look save at all, though you better do not use it without a fire blanket beneath or on a carpet etc. But I am sure it is perfect to prepare fried eggs...

http://fstatic1.mtb-news.de/img/photos/5/3/2/2/5/_/large/Netzteil.jpg

Since about half a year I am interested in purchasing a XPS 16 since my 6-year old TP went to its knees. Now since it is "finally" dead, I read all these horror storries about the XPS 16 with i7. On the German site they do not offer P9700 anymore, but P8700 with cheaper components for nearly the same price as the i7 (though I assume they really want to push the i7 in the moment which is quite unfair since they now about the throttling issue...). On the phone they will not let you order a T9600 or P9700 as well...

So I guess I better buy a Sony or wait untill the issue is solved?

PS: sorry for my poor English

 

Thats scary.

 

as hot as my 90watt adapter was getting this doesn't surprise me at all.

I sent in a formal request to dell for a return auth, as well as a complaint to the BBB, and will be calling dell on my next day off and spending all day on the phone if i have to (read: i will be on the phone all day for sure)

 

Just wanted to share some testing results. Tested with a Kill A Watt Meter.

Used the following:
90 and 130 watt adapter
Throttlestop 1.77
Real Temp 3.40
i7Turbo
GPU-Z
Furmark
Prime95

Attachment (Thumbnail) shows a screenshot of the Results. If you want more info, download the 5mb zip of logs and screen shots.

Results.zip - 5mb file

includes xls results chart to explain tests done and results. logs from monitoring programs. times from tests can be correlated to logs. screenshot after each test.

 

Thanks chad2009. I love it when I see, "too much information".

 

+1 chad, good stuff. I'll forward this to the Dell guys as they were curious about ThrottleStop used with the 130W, but I didn't have any information of mine personally.

~Ibrahim~

 

chad2009: One thing your testing shows me is that when your CPU is fully loaded during your final test with ThrottleStop enabled, TS struggles a couple of times at 8:21:29 as well as between 8:23:29 and 8:23:52.

I think this is a sign that I should try raising the priority of ThrottleStop higher since it should be a priority to keep your CPU running as hard as possible. This might help with some of the intermittent stuttering that atlstang saw when gaming. The sooner the clock modulation and multiplier can be corrected after the bios tries to throttle them, the higher percentage of time your computer will be able to run at full speed. I'll send you a special test version of ThrottleStop that runs at a higher priority to see if that helps out and reduces the throttling even further.

The other thing it shows me is that sometimes thread 0 shows 100% for clock modulation while the other 7 threads are all at 87.5%. Based on the C0% numbers, when two threads on the same core have different clock modulation values, that core runs at the lower value. Even though thread 0 on core 0 is at 100%, the other thread is only at 87.5% so that is forcing both threads to run at the same 87.5%.

It makes me wonder why Dell did this. I hope they weren't trying to trick monitoring software thinking that it would likely only read the modulation value for the first thread and report back that everything is fine and everything is at 100%. Naah, they wouldn't do that.

 

Can someone please explain the results of chad2009's chart? I am not familiar with any of the applications that are being used for the test so I don't know how to read the results? What was the gain in percentage by using throttlestop and the 130watt power supply?

Thanks

 

chad2009's results show examples of some extreme throttling of his CPU while testing. Without ThrottleStop running, there are times when his multiplier has dropped down to 7.0. A fully loaded Core i7-720 should be using a minimum multiplier of 12 when loaded so that alone has dropped his computer's performance down to 58% (7/12) of what Intel designed these CPUs to run at.

When the bios starts using clock modulation as well to throttle his computer, a reading of 12.5% means that his CPU is performing at approximately 12.5% of its Intel rated capability. Combine this throttling with the multiplier throttling and the result is a CPU that is only running at 7% of what it should be running at. A 1600 MHz CPU is now internally running at the equivalent of a 112 MHz computer. If you were working on processing a video or playing a game, that wouldn't be good.

This is a severe load so for many activities the throttling won't be this bad. I'm still waiting to see some gaming log files to confirm a few things but the multiplier dropping down to 7.0 while playing some games does happen and then clock modulation also cuts in and drops performance even further. That's why some games turn into slide shows.

With this same load, a 130 watt power adapter and ThrottleStop running, the CPU is able to mostly maintain the full 12X multiplier and it also mostly keeps clock modulation throttling at 100% so CPU performance is very close to what Intel intended it to be. An updated version of ThrottleStop is being tested to see if this can be improved further. A fully charged battery or a 150 watt power adapter may have also helped.

The 90 watt adapter and Dell's bios is making Intel's great Core i7 mobile chips perform horribly when fully loaded.

If you want to understand clock modulation better then download a benchmark program like SuperPI mod 1.5 and run a benchmark on your computer with Clock Modulation setting of 100.0%. Now run the same benchmark and get ThrottleStop to force a 50.0% clock modulation value. Do the same benchmark at 12.5% and the effects of clock modulation throttling will definitely get your attention. No bios should be depending on this level of throttling to control power consumption. That's really cheating consumers out of the performance that they paid for. If you're brave, try dropping your multiplier to 7.0 at the same time when testing. You might have to go for a coffee or else you'll fall asleep waiting for the results to finish.

 

I heard the new Sony VAIO F with i7 will come with 150w adapter

 

Thanks for the detailed reply Unclewebb and great work with the throttlestop app!
I have one more question if you could answer please:
Can the 150watt PA-15 damage my system in any way?

Thanks

 

Thought I'd throw out my own support experience.

I had the usual runaround with the Dell tech, "We've heard about this, it's a BIOS issue, we don't recommend (and will not send out) a higher adapter". So I asked what sort of guarantees Dell will make to its customers if the upcoming BIOS update doesn't work.

He said that first off the BIOS update is "100% guaranteed to work" , and will come out on Jan 28th. He then went on to say that Dell has been collecting the e-mail addresses of customers that call in so they can keep us updated on the progress of their fix. Lastly, he said if we weren't satisfied then "new hardware may be installed", or we could exchange our systems.

So in essence, I feel like we won't just be stuck with underpowered computers for the next few years. Although Dell might not satisfactorily fix this problem, it seems like the torrent of complaints (and documented evidence) may force them to honor exchange, and hopefully return, requests outside of the normal 21-day period.

 

D2K9: Neither Dell nor I can guarantee you that a 130 watt adapter won't hurt your computer let alone a 150 watt adapter. Since no official Dell testing is publicly available, all you can do is follow these forums and wait for any reports of problems. So far I haven't heard anything negative about using a 150 watt adapter with an XPS 1645 from the few users that have tried one and reported back.

When gaming a typical load is about 110 watts so a 130 watt adapter seems to be adequate but having an extra 40 watts available instead of only 20 watts should significantly speed up recharging time while playing a game. A 90 watt adapter doesn't leave you any extra watts for charging your battery when using both the CPU and GPU at the same time.

 

Every time someone new calls to see when the BIOS update is coming, it gets pushed back another week.

I don't even think my captured system has made it to them yet....I'm ever curious why Dell seems to think a BIOS can fix it. Even Bill is sure and he alludes that he knows something we don't. But his confidence...seems so misplaced.

~Ibrahim~

 

I was really looking forward to getting a possible fix tomorrow... Oh well. I'll have to just order that adapter.

 

Update: I tried to call this morning again to see the status on my Order.

DID YOU KNOW:

That if you ordered through Dell EPP, you can only get help with RMA requests monday-friday?

I. Hate. Dell.

I'm going to submit a entirely new BBB complaint in addition to the one that I reopened.

 

lolol....that is the most arbitrary rule I've heard of in my LIFE.

Wait, wait...before you send your laptop in, change it to this desktop:

http://forum.notebookreview.com/showthread.php?t=393951

I can't BELIEVE I forget to do that with my capture. Fudge, fudge, fudge.

~Ibrahim~

 

Exactly. On Monday (1/4) I called and they told me it would be out by the 8th. by Friday it was pushed back to the 21st. That's when I gave up and decided to send mine in.

I'll wait to see what the Alienware refresh looks like and just jump on one of those.

 

Tired of the throttling? Here's something you can use to help you construct your own BBB complaint to help with your return. I just filed my report. Please don't copy paste as that isn't going to help anyone. I'm merely posting this to help you understand what you'll need to include in your filing. I tried again to contact Dell today to do my return and got the run around and ultimately was told I had to call back on Monday because I was an EPP customer.

 

I will absolutely do that, and provide a pic for proof when I do.

 

was playing borderlands today.
Everything on high and antistropic flitering on x16.
Was running on charger and tested with chipset clock mod and log file to see if i was being throttled.

The game seemed about 2 or 3 seconds unresponsive when you move.
But i checked the log file and everything stayed at 100.00, does this mean i wasnt being throttled and the system simply can't handle borderlands on full?

Turned antistropic filtering off and dynamic shadows off and the game ran fine with everything else on full.

Someone able to explain.
I really am considering returning this laptop, though i really dont want to

Another question.
Would anyone have the dell number for technical support in the U.K rather than being directed to Dell Asia.
Thanks

 

If you were playing with the keyboard you might've been experiencing that strange keyboard glitch, which you workaround by putting the computer to sleep after enabling throttlestop. Or you just can't run that game at those settings. The CPU in the 1645 is top of the line, but the GPU isn't, people seem to forget it's just a mid-range performer (albeit a really good one) it's still not a high end card.

 

it wasn't as much the keyboard it was more the mouse.
I'm using external.
And i can't run TS as i have the 90w. can only do chipset clock mod.

Will checked can you run it and see how it fairs on that then post it.

EDIT: says i should be able to run it at full specs.
Video Card
Minimum: 256 MB Video Card (NVIDIA GeForce 7 series or better / ATI Radeon HD 2400 series [R600] or better)

You Have: ATI display adapter (0x9488)
PASS

Features: Minimum attributes of your Video Card


Required You Have


Video RAM 256 MB 2.7 GB
Hardware T&L Yes Yes
Pixel Shader version 3.0 4.0
Vertex Shader version 3.0 4.0

 

sorry thats really hard to read basically the first number is what the game requires. second number is what the system has.
Sorry

 

Keep in mind that the Radeon 4670 isn't much more powerful than a GeForce 7800. It's got shader power, but no memory bandwidth. It's a low end card for sure so it wouldn't surprise me if people are getting poor performance because their settings are too high.

 

Ah well there's your problem. The 90W PSU lol. I couldn't even run Portal until I got throttlestop.

 

lmao oh dear.
Will have to get the 130w then.

http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/P25-GENUINE-DELL-PA-4E-FAMILY-LAPTOP-ADAPTOR-CHARGER_W0QQitemZ150391719069QQcmdZViewItemQQptZUK_Computing_LaptopAccess_RL?hash=item23040b849d

Someone able to tell me if the mains lead from the 90w will fit that?

 

This game will not run good at all without TS and a 130W adaptor, the game requires 105W+. it would run like crap before TS was created to bypass dells crap.

 

Why buy one? I got mine for free by telling my Dell Rep I was returning it otherwise. Or you could tell them how hot your adapter is and how fear a fire hazard lol. The PA-4E is the one they sent me so that looks about right lol.