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    S-XPS 1645 Throttling Info. and Updates

    Discussion in 'Dell XPS and Studio XPS' started by atlstang, Dec 27, 2009.

  1. bipul_fx

    bipul_fx Notebook Evangelist

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    Someone just play Crysis on full brightness with 130W Adapter. Lets us know does it run smooth and whats the fps now. Thanx
     
  2. quietCat

    quietCat Notebook Consultant

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    Nice try Dell....


    ............................. But your fooling nobody..........................
     
  3. atlstang

    atlstang Notebook Evangelist

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    the same was said about the A05.. did ya just update from A03 to A07??? it would seem maybe uncle webb's idea about the voltages being upp'ed looks to be correct. the logs showed close to 90C i think?
     
  4. gaah

    gaah Notebook Deity

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    No I went from A03 to X29, and then to A05, to A06, to A07.
     
  5. Beconsiderate

    Beconsiderate Notebook Enthusiast

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    I just ran Empire Total War on full brightness with a 90W. Still throttling, although its not as severe as it was on A03.
    Who would have thought...right?
     
  6. atlstang

    atlstang Notebook Evangelist

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    i take it, it didnt get that hot before when testing?
     
  7. error-id10t

    error-id10t Notebook Consultant

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    That's your problem, wait till you have 130W and then try.
     
  8. Beconsiderate

    Beconsiderate Notebook Enthusiast

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    There was a question (by Dell, at least) of whether or not a BIOS update would be sufficent without a 130W adapter. My post was merely for information purposes using real application testing.

    Also, has Dell made any statements?
     
  9. kienah

    kienah Notebook Enthusiast

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    Quick Question!
    Can i install the new BIOS A07 if i still have a 90w power supply?
    If yes, will i notice a difference in performance from A06?
     
  10. unclewebb

    unclewebb ThrottleStop Author

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    Bios A07 will work with a 90 watt adapter but it will still throttle to 85 or 90 watts or whatever the magic number is. You need a 130 watt adapter with this new bios to take full advantage of the extra wattage that this bios update is designed to deliver.
     
  11. error-id10t

    error-id10t Notebook Consultant

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    You mentioned you've done AS5, probably double check this. I ran the Prime95 as part of Realtemp Sensor test (a07+130w) and mine reach 70 degrees - granted mine is 720 and yours is 820 but you're reaching 10 degrees more..
     
  12. code137

    code137 Notebook Enthusiast

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    without TS you get the same results on battery as on 130 a/c? Are they the same results you used to get on battery without TS (on say A03)?
     
  13. unclewebb

    unclewebb ThrottleStop Author

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    error-id10t: Did you notice any difference in Prime95 temperatures between bios versions? Just curious if voltage has been played with. The GPU voltage seemed the same between releases.
     
  14. Beconsiderate

    Beconsiderate Notebook Enthusiast

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    Has dell said anything about giving out adapters? Or is it best to buy one on our own?
     
  15. unclewebb

    unclewebb ThrottleStop Author

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    A 130 watt adapter is yours for the asking. Head to the first post where I think there is more info.
     
  16. Featherbeard

    Featherbeard Notebook Guru

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    I don't know about you guys, but oh my GOD what a difference in Bioshock 2 from A03 to A07! It went from somewhat smooth-very choppy to BUTTER smooth. (130w power supply.) This is an AMAZING difference. I'll have to try out Mass Effect 2 and Dragon Age next. I'm also noticing I'm a good 5-7 degrees C cooler than A03 as well strangely...

    EDIT:
    I'm noticing that Mass Effect 2 runs slightly smoother with Throttlestop turned on. Bioshock 2 doesn't seem to make much difference with or without it strangely.
     
  17. SlyNine

    SlyNine Notebook Consultant

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    Dirt 2 By itself throttles down to 8x Even with brightness halfway up.
     
  18. asommers

    asommers Notebook Enthusiast

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    just a clarification, gaah mentioned that throttlestop still works and improves on the performance a little with A07? If so, can someone point me to the download link for the latest version of unclewebb's throttlestop? I didn't downloaded it previously since I didn't have the 130W adapter, but now that I do, I'd like to try it. Thanks!
     
  19. atlstang

    atlstang Notebook Evangelist

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    :no: *sigh* really dell, It was overtime with ball in hand no one in sight. And its dropped again! watch for the status update saying victory accomplished gaining attention causing more people to buy the laptop.
     
  20. bipul_fx

    bipul_fx Notebook Evangelist

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    Its there in the starting of this thread. Dont forget to thanx Unclewebb :D
     
  21. Asherek

    Asherek Notebook Consultant

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    Installed A07.

    Batman Arkham Asylum throttles with brightness at 75%. Dragon Age: Origins still throttles to 7x multiplier. Resident Evil 5 still throttles. Using a 130W adapter.


    Looks like I'll be sticking with ThrottleStop.

    Thanks Unclewebb. No thanks to you Dell, for real.
     
  22. bipul_fx

    bipul_fx Notebook Evangelist

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    Anyone who submits their results please dont forget to put the adapter type. Also the settings in which y'all played the game IE medium, high, ultrahigh lol :D
     
  23. SlyNine

    SlyNine Notebook Consultant

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    ok tested again. No throttling, however adding 2 threads of Prime 95 and it throttles.

    This barely puts the CPU at 50%, what happens when a real game puts the CPU at 50%?

    I still think the level of throttling is unacceptable, considering the system isn't even hot or close to it.
     
  24. atlstang

    atlstang Notebook Evangelist

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    looks like the purpose of this thread is back and going into overtime.. can i get some TS logs and spec info from everyone when they get a chance. Anyone with a kill-a-watt want to try to shed some light on whats going on. Im sure dell has a PR announcement coming up, this wont end there.

    I know bill doesnt like kill-a-watt readings, but ill be if their engineers are doing anything right.
     
  25. gaah

    gaah Notebook Deity

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  26. SlyNine

    SlyNine Notebook Consultant

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    I'll get you some logs tomorrow. Still testing. But still with 2 threads of prime 95 and a game this thing should not throttle.

    If any game uses that much ( still looking for one) then we will throttle. sounds like other games are throttling. Futur apps will certianly throttle.
     
  27. renzska

    renzska Notebook Enthusiast

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    Pertinent System Specs:
    i7-720
    4GB RAM
    256GB SSD
    Bluray Burner
    RGBLED
    Windows 7 Ultimate

    Played Call of Duty: Modern Warfare 2 using A07 Bios and 130W adapter.

    Settings:

    External 27" Monitor
    Resolution In Game: 1920 x 1080

    Everything high and enabled except:
    Anti-aliasing: 2x
    Textures Custom, all set to Normal

    ---------------------------------

    The logs are attached and there were a few times where I alt-tabbed (actually, unplug/plug my headphone and microphone in) out of game but overall, I'm very satisfied with the results so far.

    It never throttled down to a hard set 7x multiplier. I'll have to play some more but so far, positive results for the games I play.

    I also did a test using Prime95 running 8 threads and also running Furmark. Multiplier was 10-13 but was 12 the majority of the time. Every time I've run this test before it would immediately drop and stick to 7x.

    -------------------------------------------


    Played Call of Duty: Modern Warfare 2 using A07 Bios and 130W adapter.

    Settings:

    RGBLED
    Resolution In Game: 1920 x 1080

    Everything high and enabled except:
    Anti-aliasing: 2x
    Textures Custom, all set to Normal

    ---------------------------------

    The logs are attached and there were a few times where I alt-tabbed (actually, unplug/plug my headphone and microphone in) out of game but overall, I'm quite satisfied with the results so far.

    It never throttled down to a hard set 7x multiplier in game. I'll have to play some more but so far, positive results for the games I play.

    I also did a test using Prime95 running 8 threads and also running Furmark. Multiplier was lower on the RGBLED screen and did drop to a 7-8x multiplier.

    Overall, in real gameplay, A07 is a nice increase of performance without having to use Throttlestop and doesn't seem to have the intermittent drops in FPS I'd get when using Throttlestop.

    I'd say A07 is a step in the right direction, maybe not enough steps, but it's heading in the right direction.

    -----------------------------------------------

    I added some results with RGBLED and TS Enabled (On). The results playing COD:MW2 with TS On/Off doesn't seem to show much difference between the two. I noticed no noticeable drop off in FPS when playing with it enabled or disabled. With A06 and previous, even with running TS, I would get occasional unbearble FPS drops. A07 resolves this with or without TS.

    However, running Furmark + Prime 95 w/ A07 and Throttlestop resolves the drop in multiplier. With TS enabled, the multiplier never dropped below 12x. With TS disabled, I would hit the 7x-8x multiplier.

    John
     

    Attached Files:

  28. atlstang

    atlstang Notebook Evangelist

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    there should be no throttling, unless theyre still limiting the 130w. Meaning theyre hiding something and trying to pull a fast one. There really is no excuse otherwise.

    I fear there may actually be some components not able to regulate the extra wattage that is not being told. Perhaps why the 130w adapter isnt getting fully utilized. That would be inexcusable, and showing the engineers at dell's incompetence. As they would had to know the max possible powerdraw before hand.

    it probably doesnt help i started in a bad mood tonight anyway.
     
  29. SlyNine

    SlyNine Notebook Consultant

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    That's the wrong way to test for throttling, you need to test on the laptop screen as that requires more power.

    They are not throttling because of heat, they are throttling because of some asinine power scheme.
     
  30. fmac

    fmac Notebook Evangelist

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    This is really dissapointing. I thought Dell was going to do the right thing on this one..
     
  31. SlyNine

    SlyNine Notebook Consultant

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    I agree, 100%. I certainly hope that's not the issue, Dell better come out with a yes or no.

    No offense to Bill, he seemed genuinely intent on helping.
     
  32. renzska

    renzska Notebook Enthusiast

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    I've been playing on my monitor for weeks with the same throttling issues as I would get running on my laptop screen. I'm reporting the differences under the same setup that before was throttling to 7x the majority of the time.

    I'll test just on my RGBLED screen to indulge you and report back.

    John
     
  33. atlstang

    atlstang Notebook Evangelist

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    That is important, we shouldnt kill the messenger here. Bill has done much for us to the best he can. In fact probably has gone above and beyond what is required. The engineers are at fault here, and dell as a whole. Lets please no one bash bill.

    renz, rgbled screen turned on, may show a very different picture through your logs, although you could see it hit 11x alot, a farcry from the 13-14x you where getting other times.
     
  34. asommers

    asommers Notebook Enthusiast

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    just curious, is it possible to rollback from A07 back to a previous bios...say A03?
     
  35. quietCat

    quietCat Notebook Consultant

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    The question we have to ask Dell is why are they under powering the 1645 and other laptops?

    This is not an isolated problem.

    For starters 164x
    174x
    and the list goes on

    Is it because they can say things like this to their shareholders and clients?

    "We are so smart over here in Dell,
    Look, our laptops are so advanced that they run on less power than all our competitors, they are the "greenest" computers available and its called "Dell Energy Smart."


    Michael Dell tells us about "Enery Smart" here

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VSsJKpT0d8Q&feature=related

    ....listen to the whole clip if you can but you can foward to 4:30.
     
  36. atlstang

    atlstang Notebook Evangelist

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    It should be yes, though if there is prevention mechanism design in. i think mitchell has posted a way to circumvent that if you have those issues.

    edit: quietcat, i think there might be some components not cutting it with a higher wattage. the 130w should be more then enough to power this system :-(. They know what they had to do, and they dropped the ball again. admitting that though, would be a huuuge failure to go along with what you said :-/
     
  37. renzska

    renzska Notebook Enthusiast

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    I've updated the results of my original post to include the RGBLED and while overall the multiplier is a little lower while gaming, I find that it is more enjoyable and smooth. The Furmark + Prime95 test wasn't as nice on the RGBLED as it was on the external. I noticed throttling in FPS on both setups while gaming prior to A07.

    John
     
  38. SlyNine

    SlyNine Notebook Consultant

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    So what happens when a game comes out that pushes the CPU harder. Many games you can turn the graphics way down to match the GPU. But very seldom can you make the core engine less CPU intensive.

    I think I might throw in the towel on this one.
     
  39. godai_nin

    godai_nin Notebook Geek

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    Yes, you can. A while back someone posted Dell's bios updating utillity which was cracked for backward flashing of the bios.


    Does TS works with the new bios + 130w adapter setup ? haven't recived 130w yet :(
     
    Last edited by a moderator: May 8, 2015
  40. atlstang

    atlstang Notebook Evangelist

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    yeah, there shouldnt be a hint of throttling which yours shows. Your logs seem a bit odd, looks the throttling scheme has changed significantly. If you could run a log with throttlestop enabled, on the rgbled screen sometime would be appreciated.

    thanks for the logs, im saving the link. will add them to others as they come and put them on the main page.

    edit: siphen, from the looks of that log. Looks like there may be games already that others havnt tested yet. If its on that edge like it seems.
     
  41. quietCat

    quietCat Notebook Consultant

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    It would be equally as bad if they designed with 90w as starting point and digregarded performance.

    There is a bigger picture here.

    Either:

    1. Dell cant admit that the system can run at full power now because it would set a precedence and they would have to make changes to all the other laptops and explain the reason why.

    2. The system can't perform at max advertised because design is fundamentally based on 90w power limit and components cant handle extra power/heat and they are trying to keep us quiet by pushing max power envelope in A07 for "Crysis" to run at reasonable framerates.They could not admit this for obvious reasons.

    Either way they are designing to limit power at the expense of performance without informing customer.

    To admit either, the cat would be out of the bag.

    Loosing their their shiny "energy efficient green badge" would then be the least of their worries.


    If only people hadn't spent so much money on these machines this whole cover up by Dell would be laughable.


    It is time for us to apply the pressure now, until DEll pop.

    How about that for a "real world scenario".
     
  42. TomK2

    TomK2 Notebook Geek

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    My quick results before bedtime (since, like everyone here, I have my own agenda and use-cases for the laptop).

    820QM + RGBLED at full brightness + keyboard at full brightness.

    A07 + 130W adapter from Bill.

    Ran Prime95 blended 8 threads + streamed an episode of House from the NAS (this works the video card a (very) little bit as well as the wifi card.

    No throttling. It was just starting to throttle on this test with A03 (around 11-12x with no C0% throttling).

    Temps appear to be the same as with A03. Maybe a hair lower. 130W adapter is barely warm after 10 minutes of test above.

    So I won't be going back to A03... Haven't run the "power virus" yet but I see that others have, so I won't bother.

    I realize others are still finding problems and I don't want to be "alright Jack", but... I'm alright....
     
  43. code137

    code137 Notebook Enthusiast

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    Just going through your logs quick I get:

    CODMW2 1920x1080 high resolution/normal texture/AA2x (External Monitor)
    Average Multi of 12.91/100% CKMOD/18.16% C0

    CODMW2 1920x1080 high resolution/normal texture/AA2x (RGBLED)
    Average multi of 12.71/100%CKMOD/17.46% c0

    Prime95 + Furmark (External Monitor)
    Average multi of 11.74/100% CKMOD/98.78% c0

    Prime95 + Furmark (RGBLED)
    Average multi of 9.39/100%CKMOD/75.63 c0

    if i focus in just where c0 runs to 100% I get an average multi of 9.26
    edit: actually looking through the log it seemed to get more consistent to 7-8x where it made a sharp drop from 12 at the start so I'm guessing that average would continue to fall over time.

    I just ran through all this very quickly so don't take it as exact.
     
  44. error-id10t

    error-id10t Notebook Consultant

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    Personally, no. I've ran Prime on BIOS versions A03, A05, A06 and now A07 and it's reported the same temps for me.

    As a real-world game to test throttling: I was using Wings of Prey. With A03-A06 it would throttle to 9 Multi and 90% CKMOD (I think that's 1077Mhz?). This was the same on all versions of BIOS.

    Now with A07 I'm getting the same results as with Battery on all BIOS versions: 14.5 Multi with no modulation (1928Mhz) This is also what TS always provided.

    They've definitely raised the limiter here with positive impact for my example, but as made obvious by others a problem still remains.
     
  45. atlstang

    atlstang Notebook Evangelist

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    thats at least some good news. how demanding would you say that game was?

    Im actually very glad things are more usable, but peeved that there is still some issues. As this honestly should have been eliminated with out a doubt if done right.
     
  46. Lorthirk

    Lorthirk Notebook Guru

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    Dumb question, people... all of you that you find that it's still throttling, have you checked your power saving settings?
     
  47. godai_nin

    godai_nin Notebook Geek

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    I ran crysis warhead + throttlestop (disabled,for log)on battery after updating to A07, got a avg frame rate of 27 with all setting on gamer except shadows(set em to mainstream) with a resolution of 1920 x 1080.:D well it's not much diffrent from earlier. and yeah i got wled.

    heres the TS log. system didn't throttled on battery at all.

    View attachment ThrottleStopLog.txt
     
    Last edited by a moderator: May 8, 2015
  48. Dinkleburg

    Dinkleburg Notebook Consultant

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    I think its better to game on an external monitor with the lid closed. Then the screen wont be blocking the exhaust.
     
  49. I love the palm pre

    I love the palm pre Notebook Guru

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    Those of us who are outside the U.S can we now contact Dell and request our 130w PSU's? or have the local teams yet to receive the message from HQ about giving away 130w psu's?
     
  50. quietCat

    quietCat Notebook Consultant

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    Might as well get a desktop then.
     
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