S-XPS 1645 Throttling Info. and Updates

Try emailing the higher ups?

Michael Dell
Chairman and CEO
[email protected]
Donald Carty
Vice Chairman and CFO
[email protected]
Ronald Garriques
President, Global Consumer Group
[email protected]
Michael Cannon
President, Global Operations
[email protected]

 

I do not think it will do any good if this XPS 1645 very near its end of life cycle.

 

I seriously doubt it's near when they just came out with the i7 processors in them.

 

Bios A07 limits things so you don't get the full 130 watts DC that these new adapters are rated for. What you get is enough for most users to play most games without too much throttling and you get to hope that more advanced multi-threaded games don't show up in the future. There is little to nothing left over to charge your battery while you are gaming. What you experienced shows poor design but it does make perfect sense.

 

Greetings, young Perdire.

Do you think NBR will delete this thread when its useful life is over? Or even (as in the case of the Dell Community thread) slightly before that point?

You do know who Winston Smith was?

 

And I am wondering why they stopped shipping the RGBLED. May be problems or out of stock due too many replacements. Now I am waiting for such replacement and it was postponed for 2 weeks because they don't have RGBLEDs. Hm...

Nikolay

 

The RGBLED still exists and they are still shipping them with the XPS 16 but only if you order a Core i5 Dual Core CPU. They no longer offer this screen with the Core i7-720QM.

 

Would running TF2 on Max settings(including AA) for 3 hours straight be considered a good test for any throttling? Because I max it out and play with zero problems, also the laptop doesn't even get hot. It'll get warm, warmest above where the vent breathes to the screen. But not bad at all. Is this atypical or just not a very demanding game?

 

And I should also add that TF2 is not in terms of comparison, its quite old and therefore not very demanding.

 

I'd be very worried if that was the case; it would imply that something in the i7 setup, either the power input or the heat output perhaps, exceeded the limits of the 1645 config, even with the 130w adaptor now coming as standard.

But in the UK, at least, you can still have all the fun of the fair, and on only 90watts - choose the N03X6503 and upspec it to RGB for only £190 :-

Components
Intel® Core™ i7 Processor 720QM (1.60Ghz, 6MB cache)
Genuine Windows® 7 Home Premium 64bit- English
Microsoft® Works 9.0 / English - (Does not include Microsoft® Word)
1 year of coverage included with your PC
McAfee® Security Centre - 36 Month Protection - English
Black Leather back cover : 16" (inch) Truelife 1080p Full HD RGBLED Edge to Edge Display (Enhanced c
8192MB 1333MHz Dual Channel DDR3 SDRAM [2x4096]
500GB (5400RPM) Serial ATA Hard Drive
9-cell 85Whr Lithium Ion battery
DVD +/- RW Drive (read/write CD & DVD) with Roxio Easy CD and DVD Burn software
1GB ATI® Radeon™ HD 4670 graphics card
Dell Wireless 1397 Mini Card (802.11 b/g)
Dell Wireless 370 Bluetooth Module
No, Dell may NOT contact me by telephone in relation to my order
Accessories
Services & Software
DataSafe Online Backup 2GB 1 year
Also Includes
No Accidental Damage Support
No Integrated TV tuner
N03X6503
Studio XPS 1645 Order - UK
English - Documentation Studio XPS 16
Datasafe Local 2.0 Basic
Studio XPS 1645 Resource DVD (Diagnostic & Drivers)
90W AC Adaptor
No Carry Case
1 Meter Power Cord (3 Wire) - UK
Internal UK/Irish Qwerty Keyboard
Integrated Camera with Facial Recognition Software
One free Dell Expert call to help with your PC queries within 60 days of purchase
1 year of coverage included with your PC

'Enhanced c' by the way, is 'Enhanced col' (our) unless it's (umns)
You don't get an improved programming language with it

 

In Australia they still sell the 1640 and RGB isn't an option for 1640 or with 1645. Some people are saying that they are being told by Dell that the only reason 1647 still shows it, is due to a mistake.

Considering the 1645/1647 are the same system, less CPU, and there are no major heat differences like there is when compared to 1640 (this running the hottest) .. it does put some weight against the 'hear-say' it may be pulled shortly, implying a problem Dell is aware of.

Time will tell but either way it does make one wonder the reasons.

 

Dell New Zealand only has RGB available for 1647 models, with any processor. Also to note the i7 620m is available as an upgrade.
Also blueray burner is available on all models.
All models still listed as 90watt

 

I wouldn't get too hung up on the problems you mentioned. The vent is actually quite a good idea. as when the screen is open it directs air flow over the top rather than onto your leg! not so much risk of it getting blocked by your leg etc. The gap is sufficient enough to allow a good flow of air. I've had my 1645 with the 820qm i7 for just over a week, and I have to say I'm rather pleased with it. I am still waiting for the 130w psu....

Don't get caught up with negative hearsay from the forums (mostly from ill advised wanabe owners). I think you'll find most of the issues are sorted now with the a07 bios. This machine really is very quick, and runs most games very competently considering it's cost and the fact it's a multimedia laptop not a pure breed gaming rig (leave that to alienware), you get a lot of bang for your buck. The 1080p screen is also very nice to look at, so worth considering over the low res asus.

Dell's customer service is a total mess, but don't take any crap off the call centre reps and you should be fine in the long run. (bear in mind they probably get paid less in a year than what your paying for the laptop!). I got really pissed about with my order, but in the end they upgraded the processor and put a blue ray drive in free of charge to compensate for the mucking about.

 

I doubt this will work for everyone but it seemed to work for me.

I disabled Power Play in the ATI Catalyst Control Center, and I've not throttled yet. All the problems I did have...went away instantly.

I know it's supposed to help the performance, but turning it off worked wonders for me. Turning back on....back to the same old stuff.

 

Are you talking about the thermal throttling? The one which makes the GPU throttle when it reaches 83C?

 

Dude, who are you calling ill advised wanabee owners? Most of the people here (except couple, and i guess we all know who) are unfortunate xps 1645 owners, who naively wait for Dell to solve our problems. Honestly, I regret buying this laptop, and more important, regret trusting Dell. If our friends Bill and Todd could help me return my laptop, I will never come back to these threads and never have anything to do with Dell. Bill and Todd, if you are reading, please help me.

On the other hand, what a nice post! change couple words, and this is a great casual advertisement for Dell. Your comments on the vent is absolutely gold, I can't believe none of us thought about it from this angle. If you like this laptop that much, why don't you go to Dell's website and join the Dell rep team (assuming that you are not one of them) and write a 5 star review? This place is too depressing for you.

 

Chill out. I think people are over exaggerating this as well. I agree that when the lid is open, it does guide the air UP instead of down, which is a good idea, but in doing so, it does block some of that vent. If the AIR went down, it would possibly heat up the laptop more as it could get blocked by things much easier.

 

Check your GPU in GPU-Z and I bet you're Video card is running at 400mhz core. When power play was turned off thats what mine did.

 

It's true that he got a little upset, but it's with good reason. I'm sorry to whoever wrote that the vent design was a good idea, but anyone with half an inkling of engineering knowledge or design would realize it's a pretty shoddy design. It's obviously not working correctly.

 

seriously! That's why my 1645 is going straight back to dell... i really hope that when they refresh this unit that they actually come up with a product that has a design which is compatible with its specs without all this hassle and BS and trying to prove things to them, which i'm sure, their fully aware of... it's silly that these guys who call themselves engineer's and designers need proof, from us, for problems that are so blatantly obvious

neways... the vent design is def. not suited for this laptop and i really hope they fix it for u guys!

 

Here lol

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0ZH5WeiICBQ

 

Okay, so what does that mean then? All I know is everything works the way it should now, and my laptop's temperature doesn't get as high. It stays below 70C

 

It means you're only getting 66% of the rated speed your GPU is capable of. It may not make a difference for slightly older games, but it will for newer ones, assuming that there is no throttling.

 

But when I turn it on with maximum performance it runs at 220Mhz
Should that be right?

EDIT: Okay I see what you mean, I will get 400Mhz MAX instead of 675 or more. But when I have that turned on I get throttling, and throttlestop doesn't do it so the GPU must be getting too hot. With it turned off though, I get 400Mhz, but my GPU only hits 84 rarely, and over 80 only rarely according to the logs, and I can run the games I want to run on just about Max settings where if it were turned on, I couldn't get them to run on Medium real well.

So maybe some new thermal paste will do the trick so I can turn it on.

 

A really interesting doubt..... What if the vent was on the left side instead of "BLOWING THE AIR OVER THE TOP".... There will be no obstruction and the flow will be smooth as to reduce the temperature in a much better way...

@ Todd: Can you ask the technicians whether it is possible to just direct the flow to the left and open that space up so that we will be much more happy as the GPU throttling limit will not be met unless you are in INDIA (where i am currently in)..... But still it ll be much better for us in the TROPICAL ZONE too.....

Also i too agree that the vents pointed down is a really bad idea unless you want all the flesh in your thighs to melt away like wax off a candle...... lol....

 

I just uploaded couple screen shots with something I've at least noticed.

And I think I'm finally starting to understand why these games are running better with PowerPlay enabled.

Same settings, 1280x720, all settings on high...the 1st one is with power play enabled, the 2nd one it is disabled

The frame rats are close, but that isn't an exact thing because the top stutters.

[/IMG]

 

Any word on whether Dell intends to look into throttling with RGBLED screens and the USB problems previously reported?

 

Reason I ask is that I have found that pretty much every game runs bad even old ones like Quake Live, Half-Life 2, and Sega Rally Revo - games which previously ran fine on my E1705 w/ a GeForce Go 7900 GS. I'm pretty annoyed right now that nothing works right on my system after months of ownership.

 

I don't really understand what you're proving... that 300/500 vs. 400/800 has lower frames? Why don't you use Rivatuner to lock the GPU and then see the frames.

 

It means that, Instead of getting the 650 cycles (work done)per second that you paid for, you are only getting 400cycles done per second.

In a purely GPU core limited situation, which today is the most common limiting factor in games. If you were getting 30 FPS at max performance, with the limit you're now only getting 19 FPS. That's a 60% drop in performance from core speed alone.

That's the whole problem with throttling, what if in the next game you try you need that extra 60% performance. After all thats what you agreed to when you paid for it.

 

Yes, but you didn't pay for 400 or 300 mhz. You paid for 4670, which has a rated TDP for heat removal and a stock speed of 675 under load. Dell is limiting that and you are not getting what you paid for.

This GPU should be able to run at more then 84, and more so If Dell followed the TDP for the Core I7 and 4670 nothing would have to throttle. They instead decided to only offer enough heat dissipation for one at a time, unfortunately a GPU is worthless without the CPU.

 

Sorry I don't think I explained my post right, I"m still new to all this heat stuff. The 300 is after throttling, the 400/800 is what is consistent when I turn off PowerPlay, but you are right, I didn't pay for 400/800. I'm still decided on a cooling pad, either Zalman or NXCT (or whatever it is, can't remeber at the moment)

On a side note, I don't know how to use Rivatuner, so what would happen if I locked my GPU, and will that help prevent throttling? I would think that I could run this at a higher temp than 84 without any real problems, but I don't know.

 

I'm sorry to butt in with a question, but these threads are too complicated for me to follow at this point.

I have a 1645 with RGBLED, 4670 and a i7 processor. I'm guessing it's the "usual setup" for people with the problem.
I've been in contact with dell support which decided to send me a new adapter last week. They also told me to update my bios.

This hasn't solved my problem. It's better than the first setup, but worse than using the 90W adapter, old bios and external monitor only (which I'd rather not go back to).

Will the program linked in the firstpage help my problem?

 

You should be able to run it at higher then 84C . Mine never got above 90C outside of running Prime95 plus a game, which should be fine for this videocard.

Perhaps with a cooler and thermal paste you will be able to stay below 84. Just remember as nice as the XPS studio is there are other options, Otho I do miss mine, until I remember all the throttling issues and the fact that my cousins N61JQ-X1 doesn't throttle at all with the 5730/I7 720 and it only cost 999$. But the XPS Studio is certianly a nice laptop in so many ways, such a shame.

 

No, I wouldn't use throttlestop to eliminate the problem at this point. Only to see how much it's throttling.

With The A7 bios the MAJOR performance problem should be gone. But give us a little bit more information, what games are you playing and what frame rates are you getting.

Without rambling on for an hour about cores,threads,cycles,GPUs. You'd have to tell me what you don't understand or need clarification on.

 

I don't own any high performance games or benchmark programs so I don't have any fps to show. I mostly play older games and the problem is that I get alot of slowdowns. I'm playin games like Heroes of Newerth and Guitar Hero which both drops down to 5-10 fps during 15-20 seconds with an 120 second interwall.

I've tried different setups, with the old 90W adapter, external monitor only and with PowerPlay. The setups that works best for me seem to be with the 90W adapter and external monitor, second after that would be both monitors and with the 130W adapter. PowerPlay disabled on both. All other setups gives a more frequent drop of fps and some games are more or less unplayable (just like the throttling error described).

I never understood the technical aspect which most of the users seems involved with. I just want to make sure I'm not suffering from this problem when there already is a fix. Is there any solution yet or is the problem still being investigated?

Thanks for your reply.

 

Are new XPS 1645 order models fixed in production now?? In other words, are the Bios and 130 power adapters being sent with new XPS orders?? It seems strange that Dell wouldn't already be addressing the throttle issue now in production models. I see that RGB screens are not available with the i7 now. Is this Dells fix?

 

Olof: There might not be any further improvements to this situation. Dell has removed the RGBLED option from their sales page when ordering an XPS 16 with a Core i7 Quad core processor.

If you download ThrottleStop from the first post in this thread, you can use it to run a log file while gaming. If you don't understand how to interpret the data it collects then upload it to somewhere like www.sendspace.com and post a link here and I'll have a look at it. It's possible that the throttling issue has not been completely solved for your laptop.

If you check the top 3 boxes in ThrottleStop to force clock modulation to 100% and your multiplier to its highest value then you can go play a game and see if there are any slow downs or if things are much better. Only use ThrottleStop while you have the 130 watt adapter plugged in. You also need to make sure that you have updated your bios to version A07. If you don't update your bios then a new 130 watt adapter will still be limited to the same output as the 90 watt adapter.

 

Ok guys, I was just wandering around Dell's Drivers and Downloads site and I noticed that a new Bios was out!!! It's Bios A08 for the 1645, and it seemed like it was released yesterday (03/13/2010).

Now, in regular Dell fashion, there is not too much detailed info. as to what it changed but under "Fixes and Enhancements" it says "Fix external speaker no sound after run audio test of delldiag under DOS". However they might have changed other stuff as well . I'm a little skeptical about testing it out (in case they reversed something from A07), but I'll try it anyway and see if maybe...just maybe they altered it and made it a bit better than A07 (in the areas of the GPU and CPU). I can't test watt draw or anything (to see if it was upped), as I don't have the equipment, but I can maybe test if the thermal limit was secretly upped from the 84C (to help the GPU throttling). Let's see now... ( I posted this in another thread too)


EDIT: Interesting...as I'm trying to download it, it's saying "the system cannot find the file specified" or "the file or directory not found." I wonder what's happening...Any one get it downloaded?

EDIT 2: BIOS downloading fine now

 

Have a question that might have to do whit throttling ??? .. im running new bad company 2 on my 1645 on medium settings but i just get like 30-40 fps , is this ok or can i maybe have problems with grapics ?

 

I get the same message. They might be uploading the bios on their server i guess. Hope there are improvements

 

A little bit offtopic, but after messing with the adapters I've had my first spontaneous crash. My computer died without any error messages.

Anyone experienced this? Could it be heat?

Also. If it continues, what are my chances at having the computer returned to Dell? I'm not satisfied at all with my purchase after three months of using it.

edit: it also seems that my media hotkeys just went black. Maybe I should go to another thread with this.

 

@unclewebb: In the US maybe, but you can still get such a configuration in the UK. What do you make of that?

 

Well, sometimes you have to learn the issues if you want to fix them. How can you troubleshoot a problem if you don't understand it.

It sounds like the CPU is still throttling more then A07 should. Are you sure you installed the A07 bios? What screen brightness are you running at? Also you can use Fraps to record your FPS in most any game.

If so then I recommend calling Dell and getting a replacement.

 

I think that soon you won't be able to find RGBLED in UK as well. I have been waiting for a new one for 2 weeks already and hope this week I will receive it (I am replacing mine due to various of issues )

Nikolay

 

Dell will probably not admit to this, but I think there is a serious problem with the RGB in the 1645. They're probably phasing it out entirely...

 

So possibly the major selling point for this laptop, the RGBLED screen (depending on your opinion/the review) is being removed. Now what's the major selling point? It's got i5 and i7 - the same as everyone else? It's still got the 4 series GPU? It keeps your legs and the screen nice and warm? (and throttles that nice old 4 series GPU)

I think it's kinda strange that a new BIOS shows up unexpectedly for a problem hardly anyone seemed to be talking about. Maybe they could actually focus on the main problems instead?

 

Well, I bought it for the RGB and the i7. So yeah, the XPS 1645 mostly becomes quite bland once you take the RGB away. Warm and bland, but still bland.

 

I believe that fundamentally all of the remaining issues with the 1645 stem either from power or thermal limitations. I'm also of the opinion that resolving these issues completely to the satisfaction of customers here would require hardware changes which I sincerely doubt Dell would commit to at this stage in the game.

In other words, if you're unhappy return this sucker.

 

So what do you all guys say ? is it because the rgbled screen that i cannot play games at good performance ? , I can just play games like mw2, badcompany 2 on medium/ low settings. after a while when things are getting hot its no other way then turn of the game at let the compuer cool down. I have worked hard to affoard a computer like the 1645 . But now with all fact and 3 months ownership i hate this ing computer.