S-XPS 1645 Throttling Info. and Updates

Mitchell2.24v just came up with a way to revert back to a previous bios version and posted the details here:

http://forum.notebookreview.com/showpost.php?p=5730314&postcount=2634

This will allow users to try new versions without being prevented from going back. It would be a good idea to add this link to the first post here.

magt1000: You're welcome. It's nice to hear that you're able to enjoy your new laptop the way Intel intended their Core i7 CPUs to run.

The Crysis log file posted yesterday shows the computer mostly running at 25% load which means it is not an overly taxing game for a Core i7 Quad.

I have a hunch that games like this might actually play just as well if not better on one of the new hyper threaded Dual Cores. The minimum MHz is significantly faster on the Dual Cores so as long as the GPUs are the same, performance should be the same. The Dual Cores have less on chip cache so that is going to offset the MHz increase.

 

I added it.

As im slightly worried about this new bios. It doesnt seem to solve throttling. (throws up hands "surprise!"). But the ramifications it has if it overheats like such is a problem. Dell could then claim thermal issues with the laptop as a reason for throttling, and would then make the throttlestop program dangerous to run. given such high temps. We will see when the final is out.

I think i might start logging temps now with the A03 bios. When the A04 does come out we can compare. Probably add this to the main post as well, so if anyone has temp data. post please

As of now on the A03 there seems to be no thermal problems what so ever. For me that is

 

@unclewebb

Haha, yeah. I think games are just barely getting good at using two cores...four (or even eight!) are still a bit away. O

Still, I like opening up Task Manager sometimes just to look at all eight cores. Even though they're all running at like .4GHz, TM keeps my ignorance safe and sound, lol.

@mitchell

Score, good job, man. +1 for sure.

~Ibrahim~

 

I have no thermal issues what so ever, when using TS to allow my system to run as it’s supposed to, the computer just gets warm after hours of game time (2-3 nonstop) and will peak at around 80c on the video card and 77c on the i7, never higher.

I have been wanting to under volt, but there is currently no program that will let me do that on Win 7 64Bit, its bad if the A04 release is going to raise the voltage draw on the i7, steps in the wrong direction.

 

77C with TS is good. I myself on A03 with no TS hit about 75C.

~Ibrahim~

 

@unclewebb:

Thanks for the mention. I forgot to mention it in this thread as well.

@atlstang:

Nice update d first post, with the latest TS screen and explanation. I don't visit the first post often, but this looks very good.

@ikjadoon:

thanks!

@everyone

On the 90W I can reach low to mid 70's for both the GPU and the CPU. This weekend I will do some tests with A03 and X29 to compare performance and temperatures. I will also hook up the Watt-meter.

If there is time I might even do the same tests on A01 and A02 as well, but that will depend.

 

Nice work. I'm still not sure why Dell is necessitating that we, once again, have to work around their firmware choices, but you have come up with something quite helpful.

 

The testing so far shows that even when using ThrottleStop with a 130 watt adapter, the CPU temperature is nowhere near hot enough to trigger the CPU to start thermal throttling. There is still at least another 20 degrees of headroom before an Intel CPU is designed to thermal throttle and slow down.

 

mitchel if ya do that, ill be glad to add that to the post.

For those asking about crysis etc earlier in on (i think it was this thread). Saying it is running fine. I added more at the end of the "verify you have a problem" section of the main page. It shows an example of how to check for throttling. And the performance increase at looking at certain areas. I observed a near 48% increase in framerates when unthrottled.

For tf2 i observed and even more 70% increase in framerates. This was just simple multiplier throttling, and nothing to do with clock modulation.

multiplier throttle just seems to degrade performance, while modulation is where stuttering can occur. This was at low resolutions etc not really stressing much.

 

Yeah good call... I'm on hold with dell now

 

Just remember, this is with using thermal paste other than what is supplied by DELL. When I applied my thermal paste to my 1645 it lowered the average temp about 5-6c or more, and the computer felt warmer (due to better heat transfer being pulled into the heat sync)...

 

Bios A05 releases by a engineers of Dell France for resolve the throttling issue :

http://www.lesdelliens.com/upload/Vinky/Tuto/1645_A05.EXE

But the bios doesn't resolve the throttling. I think, it's the same bios of X29

 

Whats the release date ?

 

11/01/2010.

I updated from the X29 to the A05 with no problem.

 

Has anyone tried installing the A05 and testing it? I would, but I don't have my laptop with me....

 

See my post on the other thread of throttling issue of 1645.

 

With a 130W adaptor running both furmark and prime 95 I get the system to pull ~110W without TS enabled. So it looks like they upped the cap, on the downside, there was a change in idle wattage consumption:

32-38W consumption A03 BIOS
40-44W consumption A05 BIOS - never went under 40W


The processor would not go passed 91W when maxed by itself. once the GPU was put into the test at the same time, the system pulled 110W nonstop but the processor then started to throttle, going as low as 9 multi with a clock modulation of 75% or higher, and it would pretty much stay around that.

TS enabled..... Was pulling around 139-140W but it was not constant; it would jump from 110W to 140W to 110W... GPU temps around 80-83C, i7 maxed at 79c


The video card when stressed with the CPU is being throttled from 675mhz to 300 every 2-5 seconds or so... this isn’t a limitation of my 130W because even when lowering my brightness to min and maxing both, the system pulls 127W max... it looks like Dell is now actively throttling the GPU to manage wattage draw as well, this didn’t happen before on A03.

I still need to test some games and see how dells new settings work..

 

I think it may have fixed most of the problem, granted, you wont stress this system under normal use. but.... Borderlands seams to be running better without TS enabled on max settings.. odd i know, i need to test further, i think we have a winner here...


im currently playing borderlands on max settings or min settings, getting better frames than on A03 with or without TS... will have to do more testing when i get more time, need to see what the BIOS is doing with log files.

 

110w would be a little low i think. But yeah thats awesome. Play most games just fine. Wonder if its the engineers consolation prize. still think their design philosophy is backwards, would rather have it work like it supposed too (for the future).

now its just the issue of the 90w adapters they still have :-/. Wonder if theres more to come. thanks for the testing, curious on the ~10w increase.

 

A Dell rep called me today to let me know that they had finished the bios update to fix the throttling issues. He said while it wasn't available online, that he could help me download the bios. Not sure what to do...

 

Hum, I runned Crysis yersteday and now for confirm, my kill-a-watt dosen't exed the 91W. Crysis in 1080p max brighness resume to CPU THROTTLING.

I tested with TrackMania Forever in 1080p, high and max brighness, when the game loads, I saw 70-75W and arrived in the game, the CPU THROTTLES and the kill-a-watt displays 65w. But with brightness set to the min, it works great.

130w PA-4E and I tested with the PA-3E (90w), same result.

EDIT: I tested with Prime95 + Furmark. When I start the stress test, my kill-a-watt displays 120W and 1 second after CPU THROTTLING (7x) with a variation between 80 and 91w

EDIT2: 2 others users on the LesDelliens forum has the same result of me. Very strange.

 

I would go for it. The new BIOS might even be a different one from the ones we've seen here during the last few days.

To keep track of all available BIOS versions, I have updated my BIOS package, and moved the info to its own thread.

 

According to Windows, without ThrottleStop and BIOS 05, the CPU throttled 34 times today in 4 hours.

Min throttle : 36 seconds
Max throttle 182 seconds

AC 130w

Dell will never solve the problem and it's for that Dell called me back for change my SXPS 1645 to the Alienware M15x for free.

 

Where does Windows show you this?

 

In the Windows System event log.

 

Dell is going to throttle this system any way they can, when playing games, its throttling, when stressing both out, its throttling, what I have found is that with BIOS A05, dell seems to have found the right settings, or middle point or modulation to support the video card + processor for gaming on today’s games. I still have to do further testing and will be unable to for a couple of days but overall, dell is throttling the processor to allow more W for the video card to run at max while gaming, I have only tested 1 game, the video card does not need this processor maxed to run at the best it can, since it is a mid range graphics card.

From the looks of it, if you have an 820 i7 with RGBLED, you need a 150W adaptor, with the other systems; a 130W should do just fine.

Throttling outside of games, or a game that is very CPU intensive will be another story, this is just a work-around BIOS to shut up most people, it is not an overall fix to the issue, dell created a thin system with overpowered components that has a very poor cooling design... And so they cripple it with a 90w adaptor and use modulation to stay within that envelope.

BTW, the keyboard issue is resolved with A05, I no longer have to put my system to sleep before playing a game when using throttle stop.

 

So u can still use throttlestop when using A05 ? Is A05 the newest bios, and when did they release it?

 

so with the new Bios A05(not released yet as of this post) is the 90W sufficient or we still need the 130W? So, what Im seeing here is the system now pulls more than 90W and yet they are still selling the laptop with 90W ac adapter without being replaced??? If thats true then someone call the fire department.

 

AT LEAST 130W are needed. i'm trying to figure out whether to buy 150 or 210 (i7-820 + RGB)

 

Get a 150, as I believe there is a slim version of the 150. For your specs a 150 is all you should honestly need if stressing this system and using TS...

I can’t speak for any programs released in the future, or any number crunching applications, but currently while playing games I have found the wattage draw to have lowered on average because of the way dell is now using clock modulation, my 820 will lower to a multiplier of 9 and fluxuate between 75-83% clock modulation or so, and it will stay around that area pretty steadily. I also notice around the same FPS as I was getting with A03 and TS enabled. The main difference is that with A03 and TS enabled, my system would pull 100-107W with borderlands. With A05 and TS disabled, it’s pulling around 83-88W and I’m around the same FPS, and not getting any stuttering, sound cracks, and its playable. With A03 and TS disabled the game would jump around from 95W to 60-70W because of the way dell was using clock modulation. It seems dell has tamed the clock modulation at 1st glance, what I want to know though, from our French brothers and sisters, can you PLAY Crysis and get the same FPS on A05 without TS as you can with A03/A05 with TS enabled.

This is only a case with 1 game; I still have to test COD MW2, Dragon Age, etc.

 

Siphen,

Thank you for your reports, I'm eager to install the new firmware. I have the i7 720 and the RGBLED (6 GB 1333 mem, 500GB 7200RPM HDD, top video card, etc.), do you think I need a 150 (or will 130 be fine)?

All,

Does anyone with the new firmware have a 150 watt power supply? Will the latest A05 (leaked from France) firmware draw more than 130 watts from a 150?

Does Dell offer a slim 150 Watt power supply as Siphen suspects? If so, what is the model number? I assume the PA-15 is a brick (since the PA-13 is a brick).

 

Hi Guys.

I'm getting abit lost with all the recent posts, could someone answer me the few questions please?

Is there a new BIOS?
If yes, does it run better than A03+TS enabled?

I'm using a 130w adapter with TS and A03 atm

thanks

 

Yes, there is a new BIOS (at least out for testing). The behaviour of the BIOS seems to change how the system handles throttling, but does not eliminate the issue. Also, there is a noted increase in system teperature, probably result of upping the voltage on the CPU (can someone confirm?).

I would argue because of the heat issue and reports of throttling even with the A05 firmware, that A03+TS and 130W+ adapter is still a better way to run the system.

 

However, wasn't there a stability issue with A03 + ThrottleStop where one needed to close the lid on the Laptop for some time (after enabling Throttlestop) to let the computer resync itself so that lit keyboard would behave correctly (not sure if I have that exactly correct, I'm paraphrasing)? I think Siphen said the A05 update resolved the lit keyboard problem (when using ThrottleStop) as well.

So the idle temp goes up (with A05), but I doubt the peak temp goes up notably (when compared to A03 + Throttlestop). Can anyone who has tested this confirm or deny this?

 

Thanks, i looked here but there is a lot of information.
Could you please be a bit more specific, so that i know where to look an to search for?
Are there some codes for or what does it say when there was an throttling issue?

 

For this issue :

ID = 37
Source Error = Kernel-Processor-Power

Exemple of the issue reported by Windows WITHOUT ThrottleStop, just AC 130w :

(In french sorry)

"La vitesse du processeur 1 du groupe 0 est limitée par le microprogramme du système. Le processeur a connu cet état de performances réduites pendant 189 secondes depuis le dernier rapport."

Windows report the throttling issue ONLY WITHOUT ThrottleStop.

 

Ah Thanks a lot, found it.

 

Google Translation:

"The speed of the processor 1 group 0 is limited by system firmware. The processor has experienced this state of reduced performance during 189 seconds since the last report."

Correct Translation:

"Your Dell laptop is throttling like a son of a b!tch."

 

Does anyone have a model number for slim 150W? Can't find it on ebay.

 

It's PA-15 and the geniune adapter is hard to find at places other than Dell.

 

Thats a good one:smile:

 

If I install the A05 bios, do I need a 130 watt PS? Or can I still use the 90 watt one? I read posts where people were saying it will pull less than 90 watts.

 

could someone explain to me..even though the gfx card has 4.0 shaders that when playing farcry 2 the games fps drops loads resulting in jumping when shader quality is put up

 

Probably because the 4670 is a slow card - has about the same power as old DirectX 9 cards.

 

I don't know, but I get much better performance in Farcry 2 if I set it to use DX 10 instead of 9.

 

I'm tired of hearing this really. This 4670 is about the same power as a 3870, It is not "slow" or "low end" it is a midrange card.

 

No man, if these specifications from notebookcheck.net are right, this is a low-end card:

Memory Speed * 800 MHz
Memory Bus Width 128 Bit
Memory Type GDDR3, DDR2, DDR3

That's roughly 13GB/sec memory bandwidth. The 3870 has double that, and the 4870 has quadruple that. The GeForce Go 7900 has twice that (which is what my E1705 from 4 years ago has). This chipset might be powerful but it's been crippled by not having enough memory bandwidth. I wouldn't expect this card to perform with maximum settings or resolution. It will perform very slowly with maximum texture and resolution, it can't handle most games at 1920x1080 or even 1280x720. Maybe this is why everyone is getting such crappy performance is they're just expecting too much from this low-end graphics setup.

 

Close, but no cigar. It's G DDR3 so the effective clock is 1.6GHz, which gives a memory bandwidth of 25.6GB/s. GPU-Z proves it, too.

~Ibrahim~

 

When you take double data rate into count, that is true. I goofed on the actual numbers, but that's still actually really slow. The 3870 has twice that (54.4GB/sec), 4870 more than quadruple that (114GB/sec), and even the old GeForce Go 7900 GS has double that (42.2GB/sec). The 4670 is crippled.

 

The 4670 performs right there with a 3870 on a lot of games, regardless of memory bandwidth, You cannot look at memory bandwidth and make assumptions about performance. That's about as bad as looking at the size of the memory on the card. Compression is much improved from the 3xxx series cards, and yes the 48xx cards are much faster, so what? They are "High end " cards.

I have this video card in a desktop and can assure you it can handle 720P on Crysis at medium-high settings pretty easily. I've heard from multiple sources the one in this laptop is a GDDR3 version.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=V1BSSQaoyvA