What is a B+RG LED?

Hi, everyone! I'm new to this site, so I'm not sure whether this topic has already been discussed on other threads... I'll delete this post if it is inappropriate.

Could anyone tell me what a B+RG LED is? This option can be found on the new XPS 15 on Dell's site:

The Dell Online Store: Build Your System

Could this be the same technology seen on Dell's acclaimed RGB LEDs with over 100% coverage of adobe RGB color gamut?

I've tried chatting with a Dell's salesman from Dell's site but he didn't seem to know anything about these displays at all... All he would give me was a load of crap...


Dell: "B+RGLED is much better then one we had"

(Compared to previous RGB LED???)

Dell: "with the better resolution for gamer's and designer's"

(Wasn't all previous RGB LEDs in FHD as well??)

I told him that I would absolutely get the new XPS 15 right now if its performance is on the same level as RGB LED display found on previous XPS 16, and this is what he said:

Dell: "Yes it's the same and much better to be precise"

(How can it be both same and better at the same time???)

Me: "Is there any link or site I can confirm that?"

Dell: "To be honest we don't have site as such i just checked that for you"

"But you can trust me it will be good one ..As this is the new one"

(What happened to the 'same and better" display he was talking about just now??)

Me: "Do you mean that the B+RGLED display is not the same as RGB LED display found on previous Studio XPS 16 and Dell Precision M6500?"

Dell: "it's the same and better one"

(WTH???)

Me: "Can you be absolutely certain that the new B+RGLED can also cover more than 100% of color gamut for adobe RGB color space?"

Dell: "Yes i am good on that screen"

Me: "Do you have any technical data on the new B+RGLED display?"

Dell: "Well i checked that ..But "

(So how does he know it will cover more than 100% of adobe RGB color space????)

Me: "So may I know on what grounds are you suggesting that it is the same/better display compared to RGB LED display?"

Dell: "i confirmed with the Technical department"

Me: ................-___-;;;


Anyway I tried looking for any information on B+RG LED displays but there's almost no info at all, unlike RGB LEDs. From the limited info I have found, it seems that this is not the first time B+RG LED display was released, as some of the older Studio 17 did have this option as well. Also, on some forums I have seen posts claiming that it covers 92% of adobe RGB color gamut, compared to 112% of RGB LED and is therefore a different technology, but all the links seems to be deleted or something so I have no means of confirming this.

So can anyone please enlighten me on this subject? Any info would be greatly appreciated.

PS: Does anyone know how much of a premium RGB LED option was for XPS 16? For the B+RG LED, there's a $130 premium....

 

I don't know much about the B+RG screen, but if I recall correctly the RGBLED screen (1920x1080) was $250 US more than the WLED (1920x1080) screen for quite a while. However, the other factor to consider is that the RGBLED screen is/was actually 16 inches in size, which is 0.4 inches bigger than the WLED screen.

 

I have also read about B+RG LED before. One thingnthat i have read and is very sure of is that
B+RG LED -> 95 % color gumat
RGB LED -> 120 % color gumat

I feel that although i may not be any close to the sxps 16 display but it's still better that led (sxps 16 led had ~ 60% color gumat). So its still an good update and a cost effective one as its just 130$ upgrade as against the
250-300$ upgrade on sxps 16. On the sxps 16 people paid 75$ just for FHD so comparitiively its a good upgrade.

 

I don't know - though I'll reach out to Dell and ask - but my guess is that the RGB LED screens used individual red, green and blue LEDs. The B+RG screens probably use blue LEDs and combo red/green LEDs. So you get a good panel for cheaper (the upgrade price is noticeably less than the SXPS panel) but at the cost (ha) of a reduced gamut.

Personally I think it's probably a wise move - while I dabble in photography and stuff, I don't need a super saturated gamut display because it makes everything outside of a color-controlled application look worse.

 

B+RG = WLED with higher CG.

 

Really? That seems awfully disingenuous.

 

It's a term only used by Dell.

 

Haha, it doesn't mean it isn't deceptive marketing, though. It's pretty lame.

 

Ooooh so it's probably not a RGB LED.... Thanks for the info

 

You're right... Though I think I'll wait for a proper review to come out first. It would still be great if it can cover 95% of Adobe color gamut!

 

That would sure explain the "B+RG" name if that was true.

I don't know why, but it seems that for some reason Dell's being rather quiet about this "B+RG LED" technology, unlike RGB LED... The only place on Dell's site where it mentions "B+RG LED" is in the options when configuring XPS 15...

 

The Studio 17 used a 17.3 inch panel by the same name. It was a high-gamut WLED manufactured by AUO, and it was excellent.

 

Is HP's radiance display same as B+RG LED coz once i recieved a unit with blue dead pixels

 

They are all WLED.

 

What's a CG? Color Gamut?

 

I don't think they're being quiet about it. It doesn't make sense to offer it on anything but the SXPS/XPS products, and moreover, they probably don't have access to as many physical panels.

Yeah.

 

Hmm found an interesting article but it's all in Korean, and it does not state the source....

According to the article, RGB LED display found on Studio 1735/1737 was from LG and RGB LED display found on Studio XPS 16 was from Samsung.

B+RG LED display found on Studio 1745/1747/1749 and the new Dell XPS 15 is from Taiwanese company AU Optronics and just as Anodize has mentioned, it's just a WLED with a higher color gamut. (95%, compared to 120% of RGB LED)

A R R O W 9 3 F M :: ??? ? XPS 14, XPS 15, XPS 17 ???.

 

AUO's 17.3'' wled 1080p screens(so called B+RG) are very good. Better than the LG RGB used on the old Studio 17 series.

 

RGB LED is basically as good as an HDTV Panel. What these notebooks have is a cost cutting alternative to give you about 92% of what an HDTV panel can display.

 

That is so far the most ignorant comment I've ever seen. RGB LED being equal to an HDTV panel? What on earth are you talking about? These are two different technologies.

 

Color Gamut. It's called a simplification of terms so that the general public can more easily understand.

Put another way, RGB LED = Better than B+RG.

To put it ANOTHER way, they're using only two types of LED in the B+RG version. Blue LEDs and combined RG LEDs. The result would be a cheaper panel, somewhere between the cost of white LED and RGB LED, but with a bit less control of the spectrum.

Your Typical LCD/LED Panel on an HDTV uses, what? What? RGB? Why Yes, it does.

And if that's the most ignorant comment you've ever seen, you don't get out much do you?

Oh and someone else mentioned Saturation issues. Color Gamut isn't the same as saturation. The better your color gamut the more accurate the representation of the colors on the screen, this is very important for anyone who does photography for a living.

So what they are saying by using a B+RG LED panel, is that any image you have up in photoshop is only going to display about 92% of the color gamut that is possible. Some colors will not be displayed accurately.

Is this a big deal on a notebook? Not hardly. There isn't a notebook out there that will display the colors accurately. High end photographers regularly pay 2000.00+ for the best monitors with the widest color gamuts on the market.

And a little more info: When certain colors cannot be displayed within a particular color model, those colors are said to be out of gamut. For example, pure red which is contained in the RGB color model gamut is out of gamut in the CMYK model. This can also be said of B+RG, where RG cannot display a pure red or green.

And more

While processing a digital image, the most convenient color model used is the RGB model. Printing the image requires transforming the image from the original RGB color space to the printer's CMYK color space. During this process, the colors from the RGB which are out of gamut must be somehow converted to approximate values within the CMYK space gamut. Simply trimming only the colors which are out of gamut to the closest colors in the destination space would burn the image. There are several algorithms approximating this transformation, but none of them can be truly perfect, since those colors are simply out of the target device's capabilities. This is why identifying the colors in an image which are out of gamut in the target color space as soon as possible during processing is critical for the quality of the final product.

 

If you were that worried about color accuracy and professional printing, then even the RGBLED from the XPS 16 would suck for you, because it's a TN panel. Regardless of how high the color gamut is, color accuracy (not the same) will suck, and gamma will vary significantly vertically on the screen. You'd need a IPS or PVA monitor to be truly accurate, like on a good external display or that crazy expensive HP Elitebook.

Also, to say the RGBLED is the same as a HDTV is also incorrect. A good HDTV, like a good computer display, will be a IPS or PVA panel. Also, the RGBLED laptop display is edge-lit, not full-array like a RGB LED HDTV.

I've looked a bit online as to what B+RG actually means. Turns out, all WLEDs are actually blue LEDs with a yellow coating to make them look white. Red+green = yellow. B+RG could very well just mean that. So basically, you could call any WLED B+RG if you wanted to.

Plus, HDTV uses the same colorspace as sRGB. Having a HDTV with a color gamut that exceeded the sRGB standard, let alone the AdobeRGB one, would serve no point, and would actually be bad as it would decrease color accuracy.

 

I think you have a blown-up opinion of how good the RGBLED was. If I remember correctly the panel went through several iterations and the quality varied from each to the other. Only one version of it was ever really 'perfect' as you would expect it to be from the posts made about it on the forum or the reviews on the internet, and even then it was no where near as good as an HDTV...

IMO the ONLY RGBLED to ever come out of Dell that lived up to the hype were the 8bit 1920x1200 ones currently used on the M6500 and the Alienware M17x.

The B+RG name is a marketing ploy by Dell. It is just a WLED panel, though likely a remarkably good one.

 

True, the RGBLED on the SXPS16 was still a 6-bit panel w/dithering.

 

You make me lol. A quick simplified reality check.

1) RGB > B+RG in theory. In real life? Completely YMMV per individual. The only reason the current RGB screen(AW M17x R2, M6500) stands out so much because it's 8bit compared to 6bit TN's.

2) There is no such thing as B+RG. It's a term only used by Dell. It is, in reality, just WLED with higher CG and saturation. There is OLED, RGB LED, and WLED. That's it.

3) A TV is a TV. You can't relate TV's with monitors. Most TV's are non-TN(Usually IPS or MVA) and they have much better viewing angles than TN panels mostly used on notebooks. Unless you can create a miniature TV panel to fit in a laptop, there's nothing to talk about here.

4) In general, most photographers stick with 72% standard NTSC which is EQUAL to 100% sRGB.

5) Don't even get me started. I've been there. I've had EVERY 30'' on earth(IPS A2,A4,Q3,Q5, and SPVA), 2490WUXI(72%, ATW polarizer), and finally HP LP2480ZX(RGB LED). I'm not even including all the 24'' IPS/SPVA I've used.

6) LCD is not rocket science.

 

Out of curiosity, do we know this for sure? Rereading the thread, you mentioned an AU Optronics display with [presumably] known specs (including WLED backlighting), which Dell previously marketed as B+RG. Still, are we positive on this? That is to say, is there anything actually stopping Dell from ordering custom displays in high volume that use separate blue and yellowish (RG) LEDs? Sure, all WLEDs are blue ones with a coating, but assuming yellow LEDs exist or can be faked using blue ones and a thicker/different coating, they could be used to separate out blue and yellow. Assuming this can be done, actually separating out the colors in such a fashion would widen the gamut, just differently from [and less effectively than] RGB LEDs.

 

Wow, I'm learning some interesting stuffs! How do you guys know these things?

Next time I wanna ask something in the forum, I'll just scream something like "i7 suck! AMD is WAY better than ANY Intel!" and I'll get all the replies I want real-time!!

 

Thanks for the info! Though I'm pretty sure that the color gamut from LG covers 105% instead of 120% in samsung, unless there's another LG RGB LED panel that covers 120%.

Seriously? Even after calibration?

Am I wrong in thinking that color accuracy has nothing to do with color gamut? I thought coverage of color gamut from a particular display indicates only the 'ability' of the display to output that color, and that even a great display may have low color accuracy if not calibrated...

Oooh great find! So RGB LED in M17x and M6500 are different than the one found on Studio 17?

 

Dell M6500: A Precision Strike on Bling - AnandTech :: Your Source for Hardware Analysis and News

I don't think Dell would put the crowning glory of its highest-end systems into the Studio 17. I don't know though.

 

Absolutely. B+RG = AUO B173HW01 V4(V0 is 72%, V4 is 90%, and the others are NOT FHD). It is 100% guaranteed WLED. I've owned both before I sold the V4 to mooks on this forum.

Yes, to me at least. A quick searching returned with following result. 1747(B+RG, WLED by AUO) on the left and 1735(RGB, RGB LED by LG) on the right. You decide.

Different indeed. The RGB LED screen in M17x/M6500 is 17.1'' and WUXGA. Made by Samsung. The panel itself is antiglare. M17x & M6500 Covet = /w E2E plexiglass surface(glare) and M6500 = w/o(anti glare).

 

Thanks for the info, you seem very well informed

One question though, did you take the picture above?

Because although the RGB LED display is definitely brighter in that set up compared to the AUO display, there really is no way to tell whether the LG display on the right really is that unnaturally bright or not. In fact, it could be AUO display that is unnaturally dark if the image has been overexposed. You're probably right though if the article with this picture mentioned anything about the RGB LED display being unnatural.

 

The pic was taken from a comparison review of 1747 vs 1735. The reviewer did not mention about the RGB LED being overly bright and dull. There are more pictures, but I'm not gonna bother upload those since 1735 is no longer available so no point comparing them extensively at this point.

 

how can i tell which version i have? is there such a tool?

 

Well if you were happy with the AUO display, then I guess they must have been pretty good... I do hope that the new 15.6" B+RG LED is as good!

 

That puts me to question if you ever had a decent monitor? I have RGBLED myself and while I agree it is better than most laptop screens out there, comparing TN to the likes of IPS/PVA is completely atrocious. Its only advantage is fast response time.

The only laptop screen that can beat/rival real desktop monitors is HP's 17.1'' DC 10Bit RGBLED IPS.

Do you have one coming? Please do share some info when you get it.

 

That never happened...

 

Hi,
I've recently talked to a Dell Technician about the screen. And he told me that the old RGB Screen was the first generation of RGB Screens and the new B+RG Screen is the second improved generation of screens with more colour vitality than the previous ones (That is how the technician called it)
He said that this is the best screen they have ever implemented in one of their notebooks.
Hopefully thats right

 

I haven't seen it mentioned yet... So...

 

Yeah, but unfortunately Dell doesn't sell Studio XPS, or the new XPS in Taiwan for whatever reason so I'll have to wait until next year when I go back to Korea... Which I am sure by that time there will be many reviews already! I might as well wait until sandy bridge comes out though.

 

Not the Thread but what's so special about the Sandy Bridge?

 

Hmm that sounds just like the dell salesman I've chatted on their site -_-

Then the second person I've chatted with was kind enough to copy paste the ads from the previous Studio 17 after asking me to wait for 5 minutes...

"B+RG LED display’s 92% color gamut creates a LCD TV-like feel for watching movies and shows."

(Thanks for the wait, anyone who can use google can find out that much)

Maybe I was just unlucky, but after chatting 3 times on Dell's site, none of these so called "Dell experts" knew a thing when it came to technical stuff... In fact, one of them started avidly explaining the advantages of LED backlight LCD when I asked them about B+RG LED... Why not just answer my question and say "I don't know" if they don't know, or say something more intelligent like "sorry, we cannot release technical data of that screen without permission from higher ups" instead of pretending to know about it and answering a totally different question?

And the best screen they have ever implemented in one of their notebooks? Though not likely, that would be awesome. I would most definitely get one right now by any means if I can really get the best screen ever by dell for only a $130 premium from 1366x768.

 

In Germany we pay 200€ for the upgrade which is around twice as much as you pay in the US. Maybe we'll get a better screen
No, most likely not. But how the technician sound it is a really good screen. maybe not as good as the previous rgb led screen but not much less. I'll get my XPS 15 by the end of november approximately and then I can make up my own impression.

 

Nothing much that interests me - I meant that if I can find a similar laptop or XPS with Sandy Bridge at a similar price, then there's no point deliberately getting a laptop with Nehalem right?

From what I've heard, there's about 10% increase in general performance for Sandy Bridge compared to similarly clocked Westmeres. Then there's that integrated gpu as well, but I couldn't care less.

 

I do hope so too. Please share some info after you get it

 

It's been mentioned again and again that there is no such thing. Read.

 

If I wanted a pithy response I'd have asked for one. Show me a link with proof that the technology behind B+RGLED is actually something different, and I'll happily believe what you say, because I didn't really see anything otherwise. And please try being a little less pointed.

 

Umm.. Because I had the panel? I said this over and over again and WILL say once more.

Dell's 17.3'' B+RG = AUO B173HW01 V4 = WLED 90% CG.

There is no such thing as B+RG. It's purely marketing hype. There's OLED, RGBLED, and finally WLED. Now wake up.

 

Thank you for the information. I'll have to remember that. But, once again... pithy, pithy. Lighten up.

 

I have heard that some SXPS 16 panels were not quite accurate with the colour reproduction. The Reds in particular should be displayed too bright.
Is that right? Did somebody make that experience too? and maybe this is what Dell trys to prevent with the "new" technology.