Why isn't dell offering the 9800M series video cards???

whats going on? their whole XPS line is still in last generations video card.... i was looking at Asus, Sager, MSI, Gateway... they're all offering 9800M GTS's and up... am i missing something?

 

They have not updated the XPS notebooks for a while, that is why.

Just speculation, but I wonder if after all the trouble nVidia has caused...if the next refresh of Dell notebooks will include more ATI options.

 

They have still not updated most of their laptops to Montineva either, which most manufacturers did pretty much on the day/week it was launched.

Basically Dell just dont seem in any rush to update their products. I couldn't tell you why but that's the situation. Maybe its just their current business model, they cant afford too much r&d or soemthing. Every month, I keep thinking 'its gonna be next month' that we see new systems, but every month im wrong. They are way behind at this stage.

 

ATI does not have anything close to Nvidia's Mobile GPU offerings.

I rather see a new Dell XPS notebook based on the same setup the new Macbook Pro has, using a 9400M chipset + 9600M GT.

 

Vision, the Macbook pros have the same failing chips.

 

nvidia chipsets are faster then intelions but lest stable. amd is best of both worlds.

 

The GeForce 9400M and the GeForce 9600M GTs are not faulty, unlike the GeForce 8600M GT.

 

Wrong. 9600M GT is still defective.

http://www.theinquirer.net/inquirer...le-macbook-pros-have-nvidia-bad-bump-material

 

they still have alot of faulty 8xxx series they need to use up first

 

http://news.cnet.com/8301-13924_3-10119277-64.html

its not!

media always tries to sensationalize things, otherwise it aint sexy is it?

 

Lmao, a person who trusts the inquirer .

 

i know, thats what i thought too lol..

 

The chip defect is real - Nvidia took a $200 million charge against it's earnings this year for warranty repair fees.

The company and it's stockholders acknowledge the reality...so should you...

 

yes, was not disputing that. was disputing the claim that the newer 9 series was defective as well

 

The reality is that it's not been widely acknowledged for the 9 series yet, as afhstingray stated . Therefore, whatever reality you're talking about is still with the older 8 series cards.

 

Actually, both Dell and Nvidia have acknowledged the problem with the 9400m and 9600m GPUs - see attached:

http://en.community.dell.com/blogs/...nvidia-gpu-update-for-dell-laptop-owners.aspx

http://www.tomshardware.com/news/Nvidia-GPU-failure,6248.html

 

Both of your links have nothing to show for 9400 and 9600??? Also why would Dell even acknowledge issues when they dont sell any notebook with either chips?

 

Lol,

I'll let you see attached and figure it out.

 

i just finished going through them, and my thoughts exactly. the tomshardware article was based on the flawed inquirer article, and the dell blog was just about the older 8 series.

happy new year to you guys anyway!

 

This sort of go's along with another thread that afhstingray and I were commenting on.

By the title of this post, I am thinking that if Dell can't even properly cool an 8600m gt, they have no business even thinking about stuffing an 8800 gt in their notebooks.

 

9800M GT is the same a 8800GTX so technically they are!

 

Both of the new 13' and 16' Dell notebooks are going to be shown at CES next week....wait and see what develops...

 

You very obviously don't understand the Nvidia defects issue.

Dell cooled the 8400M and 8600M within the specs that were given to them at the time. If the GPUs were 100% within spec, there would be no problem with them reaching 90C +. They are rated at something like 125C

Dell designed their cooling solutions to keep the GPUs within manufacturer spec. It was only later that it was revealed that Nvidia had been using the substrate material that did not hold up to thermal stress the way they envisioned.

The problem is not with Dells cooling solutions, it is with the thermal behaviour of the GPUs.

 

actually on dell notebooks the critical temp is 107*c not 125

 

Furthermore when Nvidia says the design limit is 90 - 105c or whatever it is, it doesn't mean that the OEM should let the chip operate in this range. In desktop systems they typically stay away from this temperature range by 20c or greater and they don't wind up with heat issues. If the notebook OEM's were practicing good design, these GPU's would not pass 65c and that would eliminate all of the problems.

A given GPU, running at a given voltage, and consuming x amount of current will produce X amount of heat. There is no way around these physics (20 - 23 watts at full lode for 8600M GT I think). That heat must be dealt with and it is the responsibility of the OEM to produce an adequate cooling system. It is not the responsibility of the chip maker.

"You very obviously don't understand the Nvidia defects issue. "

I believe that I understand this 'defect' perfectly. I understand that the notebook OEM's are producing inferior cooling solutions and the GPU's are breaking down. High performance notebooks that are keeping their chips below 65c are not having issues. I think that pretty much explains it.

One more thing - this temperature range that you propose of 90c and higher as being acceptable is crazy. The very tiny solder balls that connect everything together are being weakened by those kind of temperatures. This is part of the problem. If you don't believe that just look at what happened to the X-box 360 (Microsoft didn't deal with the heat and the GPU's weakened the solder joints).

Heat is the only thing that breaks down an integrated circuit. The heat is simply not being dealt with. That is the only 'defect' that I see here.

 

The ~critical failure point for something like a 8600M GT is around 125C, i said that already. Dell stay around 20C lower by putting thermal shutdown at 105C or thereabouts.

The point is, that the GPUs are considered 'defective' because of the behaviour of Nvidias substrate/solder-bumps, and NOT because Dell have made a mistake with the cooling abilities of their laptops.

 

It's a combination of both - as admitted to by both Nvidia and the OEMs. The $200 million that Nvidia put into the pot was matched by the same amount from the OEMs.

Nvidia had unsatisfactory substrate and OEM's had some poor cooling designs. Together they lead to problems for some designs.

 

"The ~critical failure point for something like a 8600M GT is around 125C, i said that already. Dell stay around 20C lower by putting thermal shutdown at 105C or thereabouts. "

I can assure you that not only will that temperature compromise the integrity of the solder joints, but you most certainly don't want that unit in your lap. Your hand isn't going to like the heat on the palm rest either.

"It's a combination of both - as admitted to by both Nvidia and the OEMs. The $200 million that Nvidia put into the pot was matched by the same amount from the OEMs.

Nvidia had unsatisfactory substrate and OEM's had some poor cooling designs. Together they lead to problems for some designs."

I'm going to agree with you SteveJonesy. Nvidia should never have said that the GPU's could operate properly between 80 - 105c, and the OEM's should have known better anyway and put out heatsinks that can ensure that the chips stay at 70c or lower. I think that bad communication has caused alot of trouble here. The desktop card OEM's (companies like MSI, Asus, Chaintech, etc) have known all along to stay out of that temperature range (above 80c) even though Nvidia says that the chips will operate in those higher temperatures. The notebook OEM's should have shown that same wisdom and stayed out of the 70c and higher temperature range. Not only for the sake of the GPU's but also for the sake of the user. Who want's something under their hands or in their lap that is producing 90c worth of heat?

 

I can remember having a desktop card like an MSI 8600 GT and when it maxed out at around 80c I could not OC the card. I would take apart the heatsink, lap the horribly rigid surface of the heatsink, apply some good thermal paste, and bring the temps down 15 - 20c. Then overclocking was easy. That is how critical the temperatures are on these GPU's. 10c can make you or break you as far as stability.

These notebook OEM's only need to reduce the temperature 10 - 15c and these problems will vanish. That is exactly how I got my so called 'defective' GPU to function properly. I undervolted, and also removed the heatsink and applied good thermal paste on the GPU (on my M1530). This same card that would downclock when it hit 85c was now blowing through Crysis and Area 51 with no downclocking, no stuttering at all. My efforts reduced the max temp from 91c to 74c. 17c reduction was all that this card needed to behave. Now this card can overclock to 600/800 and not break 77c even after a few hours of punishment. My 3dmark scores not only increased, but there wasn't a single moment of downclocking during the tests.

I have discussed temps alot with afhstingray and we both agree that the perfect temperature for these notebook GPU's would be 65c max. That would be good cooling and at the same time not weigh the unit down with a massive heatsink. I think that all of us users would love a notebook that never exceeds 65c under load. That would be cool running.

 

yea but you still cant beat the laws of physics

65 would be ideal, but in a 15incher or less very hard to achieve.

you could achieve it by putting a 9300m in a 17 inch chassis, but then it would be underpowered.

its about pushing the boundaries, and improving the materials.my m4400 palmrest does not get uncomfortably hot under heavy load, regardless of the temps. it gets slightly warm

you shouldnt be gaming with it on your lap anyway :S where would you put the mouse??

 

"you shouldnt be gaming with it on your lap anyway :S where would you put the mouse??"

You are definitely right about this. I always have mine on the desktop, with a cordless mouse. There are however (especially young kids) that will sit in bed with it on their lap, blasting away.

Only thing I gripe about is the blasted temps on the left palmrest. I will be looking into if anything can be done with that situation as soon as I finish with my results on revision 1 heatsink, versus revision 2 heatsink, vs revision 3 heatsink.

 

"yea but you still cant beat the laws of physics

65 would be ideal, but in a 15incher or less very hard to achieve."

I'm thinking that if I can get my max temps down to 74c by replacing heatsink grease and undervolting that the OEM's can get 65c max temps without too much trouble.

In the case of the M1530 heatsink, I think that all Dell needs to do is keep the all copper design and add just a little more meat to the heat plates. I think they could easily achieve the target temp of 65c.

We will have much more data soon. I'm just waiting for my copper-plate heatsink to arrive. I will post the temperature results and hopefully put to rest the question of which heatsink is the best revision.