I've been looking forward to the m3800/XPS15 for over a month and spent countless hours researching them and discussing them in the forums. Unfortunately, when I received the maxed out XPS 15 from Costco, it failed to meed my expectations.
Issues:
- Worst trackpad I've ever used even after trying many settings with the included Dell app (like removing most gestures). I move my finger across it and it just stops occasionally... very imprecise and a big stress.
- Keyboard feels too small and keys just have too little travel. I also can't reach every key easily while also using the trackpad. It's hard to explain but basically the layout doesn't feel optimal for me. I also don't get why the speakers are on the bottom instead of in the empty space around the keyboard. That would also be aesthetically more pleasing.
- KEYBOARD FLEX - COME ON!
- High pitched coil whine
- Two finger scrolling lacks the responsiveness and smoothness of my MB Air.
- Several Windows dialogs and programs aren't really ready for high-DPI. Also, despite having a higher resolution, it feels less crisp than the MBP. One of my friends didn't even notice it was such a HighDPI screen.
- I'm worried that the coating on the palm rest and everywhere else will be gone with time. Also, it's a bit annoying when using it in bed or on other surfaces and wanting to move it a bit. That's really not that big of a deal though.
- Sorry for not running benchmarks on it to evaluate the reported throttling etc. but I was sure that I'd return it.
- Speakers are just OK.
- Battery life is a little disappointing.
Anyway, I've purchased a maxed out 15-in MBP instead and have been basically in bliss. It feels better in my hands... the travel of the keys, the size of the keyboard, the distance between the keyboard and trackpad, etc. all works better for me. The battery life is better, the computer feels faster, the speakers sound better... I can barely find faults. Windows in Coherence mode from Parallels actually seems better than the real thing due to using Hot Corners with Expose for the apps, full drag and drop, keyboard shortcuts etc. It's essentially an enhanced version of Windows 7 and the overhead of Parallels is negated by having a much faster CPU and SSD. This is my first MBP and the first laptop I'm 100% satisfied with.
The only minor downsides are: brightness doesn't go as high as for the XPS 15 (but max brightness is still more than enough unless you go in a place with very bright light), would be nice if it was lighter, the MagSafe connector falls out more easily if the computer is moved (although I guess this will improve the longevity of the adapter).
I have an LG display and no yellow tint or anything. I've owned the computers almost two weeks now and just wanted to wait before giving my thoughts.
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Just got a note from Costco apologizing for the delivery delay on the XPS 15, in which they informed me that they're going to credit $100 back to my card in compensation. I'm assuming they're getting that money out of Dell, who is hopefully getting that money out of Sharp. Not sure how all that works, but nice to know that I didn't have to badger anybody to get this change in price. I'm assuming all of us who ordered from Costco in December but won't see the machine until mid-January will receive this credit, but I'm posting here just in case anybody got overlooked by Costco customer service.
The disappointment is that Costco and Dell cannot agree regarding the likely ship date of the system. Dell doesn't think it will be delivered until 17 January, but Costco informed me that it should ship "week of" 06 January. Even if it ships on the last day of that week (11 Jan), I'm getting it shipped next (business) day mail, which means delivery on 13 January. Here's hoping Costco has the more accurate info.... -
Even without considering birth defects such as the coil whine and the screen pressure point and the embarrassing Windows 8.1 handling of the hiDPI screen, you are still getting a baffling trackpad, a weird keyboard, an average set of speakers and a sub-par battery life (compared to an equivalent MBP). -
Its the equivalent of buying a Surface Pro and exchanging it for an iPad.
Seriously what do you achieve?krayziehustler, paulthuong, jagermeister and 1 other person like this. -
The truth is, I'm anything but an iSheep. I actually despise Apple' closed proprietary world and in fact, prior to the MBP, I owned zero Apple products.
Judging from the number of posts on this forum the XPS 15 may be an excellent gaming machine, but after countless hours spent researching laptops (and trying a few of them) I just came to the disappointing realization that, when it comes to graphic content creation and professional software development (what I do), IMHO, the MBP has still no substitutes. -
I got an email from Costco that shows my new ship date is 1-6-14 but because of the delay, I'm getting a $100 refund! that covers the cost of the 3 year warranty.
Sent from my C6606 using Tapatalkpaulthuong likes this. -
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Also did you know that either the Sufrace or Surface Pro are generally unavailable across the globe. Weirdly they sold out.. Google it.
Hey as is evident on this thread.. even this crappy Dell being exchanged for a MPB is pretty much back ordered.
Evidently there are a lot of lunatics in the world who will not buy crApple. -
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Professional SW development on a crApple? Seriously?
Like what other than PHP or HTML 5. Do any ERP? SOA? Maybe BI? -
lets not turn this into an apple vs dell thread.
comparing the two is fine, but debating which company is better and so on is a topic for a different thread
to get back on topic, so far i havnt received any shipping notice, my dell account still shows order shipment "estimated delivery date" for Dec 18th. -
My Surface is a Gen 1. So I got one of the millions that would have rotted +1.
Demand has nothing to do with supply. Dell didn't order enough screens or whatever because they underestimated demand. It happens with stuff worth having.
For someone who is regarded as a virtuoso please do come up with rational arguments. -
Stere0 likes this.
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I am just sick of all the underhand bashing going on. You don't like the laptop don't buy it. You think there is no substitute for a MBP.. why bother?
Don't like the touchpad.. use a mouse.
There is a whine, pressure points... et al. That is what warranty is for.
Yes this can be classified as the Ferrari of laptops. Unfortunately unless you have actually owned a Ferrari you wont know how unreliable the cars are. Fortunately Dell isn't Ferrari.krayziehustler likes this. -
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what are people doing with the coil whine issues, i've just recieved an XPS13 and have the same issue.... i think...
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As for the whine and pressure point I had 3 choices:
1) have Dell replace both motherboard and screen (what else is left) on my brand new unit
2) send it back and wait >1 month for a replacement
3) return it and get a MBP -
1. Every other high-powered laptop I've used (i.e. models that require a 130-210W power supply) has had this issue, as well as some models that use more typically-sized power supplies. The electrical engineer who posted about it is reasonably confident that the whine is coming from the large amount of current running from the power brick into the laptop based on the nature of the sound and the conditions under which it occurs. I think that some people complaining about the whine may be new to laptops in this performance bracket and thus not used to it, but it's totally par for the course based on my experience with this type of machine.
2. Although some people have reported that a motherboard replacement has cured the issue, people who have gotten new machines since then are still reporting an issue, which tells me that either there's no fix and it's simply luck of the draw whether you get one with or without a whine, or there HAS been a revision but it hasn't been fully implemented yet. Either way, if I were to request a replacement motherboard now based on this issue, there's no guarantee the new motherboard would be any better.
3. Whenever I request service from a Dell tech, especially fairly involved service like swapping an entire motherboard, I always weigh the expected benefit against the unfortunate risk of an incompetent Dell tech solving one problem and causing another, or a few others. I just had a pretty horrific experience on another system that got a motherboard replacement (because the tech broke a connector on my existing one and then it got worse from there, long story), and I'm not eager to repeat it -- especially if I can't even be confident that a replacement would actually be an improvement. In fact even if I KNEW that the coil whine issue could be fixed with a replacement, I'm not sure it would be worth it to me considering that it doesn't really bother me in the first place, whereas a tech somehow messing up my system in the course of performing service would definitely bother me. -
Interesting.... Mine only does it when the keyboard backlight is on though.... And it winds me up massively.
Can that be disabled?
Oh yeah, and this is without the power adapter in too, don't know if that means anything?
Might give DELL a bell tomorrow... -
OTOH, we didn't notice any noise off the M3800 we tried here (the XPS 15 our rep brought by never got plugged in, AFAICR.) -
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After using this laptop seriously for a few days, I notices the coil whine is not limited to the case when the AC is on and battery fully charged, there is a different coil lower in volume but higher in tone when I am using the battery, and I had once the coil whine presisted even when I put the laptop into sleep, only when I completely shut it down the hiss disappeared. Very strange, I never had this kind of experience before. -
Since we're talking about MBP's I gotta say I got a MBP 13 and it SUCKED. I wanted to try apple and I wanted to like it but the OS was horrible. I have last year's Asus UX31A ultrabook and it's amazing compared to the MBP.
The photo viewer was awkward, the trackpad WASN'T that great at all, and at the end of it all after accepting these annoyances the hard drive FAILED. lol
It was my very first apple product and when I went into the apple store I asked them "Is this what everyone raves about?" The guy just nervously chuckled.
I pulled the trigger and ordered the XPS 15. It's not due until 1/24/2014 so I'll likely get updated parts and hopefully no problems.
I gave them a chance. Never again, Apple. -
Just wanted to chime in quickly. Bought the top end XPS 15, This forum was very helpful although reading people's problems made me worried enough I bought from costco so I could return it if I got a dud. Have had the computer for a little over a week now and very happy so far. Wireless is super fast, screen is great, keyboard is nice (coming from a thinkpad, the key travel is a bit short, but overall it feels good). I can barely hear anything from it. If i really listen at dead silence there is a whine, but quieter than my previous laptops. not sure if some people have a worse whine, or more sensitive ears or some combination. Battery life seems good so far. not 9 hours of normal use, but probably 5-6. I have made no effort to extend battery life yet, so more might be possible with some tweaks.
Main point is that I took the plunge and am happy with it. 2 minor gripes, the edge in front is a bit sharp, so digs into your palms or wrists. am considering covering the edge with electrical tape though that will loose some elegance, would be interested if others have solutions. Also it gets a bit hot on your lap. not uncomfortable but noticeable -
krayziehustler Notebook Evangelist
I think Dell did a tremendous job with this laptop. It feels like a tank and OS is great with great battery life for me. And also AC wifi is a game changer for me. It has drastically improved performance of my Synology 1512 NAS.
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In light of the recent spate of "I hate brand X because reason Y" I feel compelled to chime in. Some of this commentary is relevant and helpful, but much is not. Here's how I understand the difference between the two:
HELPFUL:
The person who chose a rMBP over an XPS-15 because they ultimately prefer the Apple experience enough to pay the $300 premium.
The person who chose an XPS-15 over a rMBP because they found that the software they wanted to run simply works better in a Windows universe and they don't like running Windows on Apple hardware.
These views are helpful because they offer datapoints from which shoppers might make a more informed decision. It is useful to know with some granularity *how much* effort is required to take the raw platform and turn it into something that works best for your usage needs. The Apple experience may not be a great fit, but a system that doesn't let you customize it by definition tends to have less set-up effort involved. For most of us, we *can* get the Dell to be a better fit for us than the rMBP, but only if we put effort into it. How much effort can matter enough for it not to be worthwhile for some. This forum is a great place to learn whether that is true for each of us.
NOT HELPFUL:
The person who chose a rMBP because Apple does everything better.
The person who chose an XPS-15 because Apple sucks.
Most people here have gravitated to the XPS-15 for a variety of reasons. Several folks here have ultimately concluded that the user experience on the Dell (having to manage video scaling, having to troubleshoot touchpad issues, having to live with unexpected noises, etc) was not enough to justify owning an XPS-15 at its ~2K price, and those viewpoints are useful for all. *Most* folks here seem willing to accept these (minor) frustrations either to save $300 (or, in the case of Costco shoppers, $600) or to have the flexibility they associate with a Dell machine.
There are good reasons to go Apple and good reasons to go Dell, depending on what matters to the consumer.
So if you have a strong opinion regarding the superiority of one over the other, please recognize that superiority is a matter of opinion and that there are respectable ways of asserting opinions.
I apologize for being pedantic. But I value this thread and the wealth of useful information that keeps popping up here, and I would hate to see it dissolve into a lot of troll-baiting (or, in the old school vernacular, 'flaming').sanderd, krayziehustler, M_Bos and 2 others like this. -
It's here.... boy it is gorgeous. Makes my old XPS Studio look like a piece of junk. Just setting up all the updates et al...
No whine et al... -
Got an email from Dell today apologizing that the laptop been delayed. It says that if I dont get a shipping notice in the next 2 business days then I will get another email with an update.
Cincinnatux likes this. -
I'd be curious to know/see what others are using to carry or protect their XPS. While waiting oh-so-impatiently for mine to arrive, I went ahead and cobbled a sleeve together out of some remnant upholstery fabric I bought at a big-box store. I don't know crap about sewing, but it turns out that a laptop sleeve is a ridiculously simple thing to plan and execute. The biggest challenge was figuring how to set up and troubleshoot the sewing machine.
I still plan on adding some loop & toggle sets for buttoning the sleeve shut, but that'll have to wait until next week when I get time to work on the project some more. Free time has been hard to come by ever since I made the foolhardy decision to become a dad.
For the curious:
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krayziehustler Notebook Evangelist
I use the official Dell Leather case for mine and I like it. -
Aesthetic style is the one area where the XPS is a poor fit for me. I dislike design where form dictates function rather than following from it. Apple has tried to balance the two (and, in my opinion, consistently failed) and it saddens me that so many of the 'premium' laptops out there today have adopted the Ikea-like super simplicity/minimalist design that Apple has made so famous. I'm not a fan of chiclet keys, and I like having an extra row of keys above dedicated function keys for media controls and office software shortcuts. I prefer laptop speakers that face me (versus ones that face the work surface) because they give a more consistent audio response than approaches that depend on the environment to resonate or reflect sound waves. I appreciate the clean lines of Apple's products and I like that Apple has driven other computer makers to rethink design, but Apple's aesthetic is a bit too sterile for me. I actually like a little machine clutter that provides me with the flexibility to use the device as I see fit.
But the XPS and the rMBP are the only two laptops out there that combine a strong CPU, discrete GPU of at least medium heft, hiDPI touchscreen, and a wide assortment of ports in a laptop not designed to be a workstation replacement. So I'll make do with the (over simplified) design in order to get the performance that lies beneath the surface.
Has anyone else found the palmrest to have a sharp leading edge? If so, are there any simple fixes? -
Palmrest front edge is not uncomfortable, in fact it's quite the opposite in my opinion.
I'm using a Targus neoprene sleeve which has a nice design, fits well, has soft 'lips' to shield the laptop from the zip and was just £11. You can close the two zips up on the AC cable to leave it in whilst charging.
http://www.amazon.co.uk/Targus-Pulse-Laptop-Sleeve-15-16/dp/B007IXNF86 -
After playing with for a few hours: If they had followed the same design principle as the XPS 11 and given this a Wacom it would have been an absolute killer.
I have updated the drivers etc, turned off the sleep mode for the USB et al. No complaints what so ever. Only gripe for some reason my 8.1 keys from MSDN don't seem to work. Any ideas why?
I also think we should have a separate thread for all the minor and major tweaks et al. This one is becoming to big to search through. -
Seems that touch screen has a huge impact in power consumption, you can see that in a comparison between Samsung Ativ Book 8 with and without touch screen:
-40% of battery life with touch screen version of Samsung Ativ Book 8 while performing Wi-Fi surf.
If there was a way to disable it, we might have a big increase in battery life. -
adlerhn, kaborchers and Stere0 like this.
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swordofsilence Notebook Consultant
I too, am interested in this. The XPS 15 will be my first touch screen laptop and I am not sure if I will even use it that way. I am excited about trying it, but it might be one of those "okay, cool" things that you only use once. Knowing the battery life impact would help me make a more informed decision. -
krayziehustler likes this.
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(The only difference the I know between Touch and no Touch model is ram configuration 8GB soldered for touch screen and 4GB soldered + 4GB in expansion slot for no touch model)
Maybe I have lost something you can check the reviews:
Review Samsung ATIV Book 8 Touch 880Z5E X01 Notebook - NotebookCheck.net Reviews
Review Samsung Series 7 Chronos 770Z5E-S01DE Notebook - NotebookCheck.net Reviews -
Ugg. Can anyone help me with steam? Every game I try to open in full screen loses the pointer. It still works but does not show up. Tried a bunch of different options in the mouse control panel with no improvement. Other (non-steam) games open in full screen and seem to work OK (or at least do not lose the pointer). Not sure if the problem is the high dpi monitor or the win 8. would be grateful for any suggestions or advice.
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Kaborchers - I really appreciate your reply. Unfortunately, updating the geforce experience did not help. Not sure what you mean by OEM driver. The geforce experience app says my drivers are up to date at 326.80. Good to know skyrim is working for you. am installing it right now to see if it works for me.
Would be surprised if I was the only one having this problem, I have not done too much fiddling with this computer, so you would think if I had the problem others would as well. The only major change I made was installing START8. Maybe that is interfering, but one of the games I tried was Sins of a Solar Empire:Rebellion, so if stardock made a windows 8 interface tweak that messed up their own game that would be ironic. Will report back on whether skyrim works cleanly. -
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Then when you do work on a non-touch enabled laptop, you will find your self poking the screen and wondering why it doesn't work.krayziehustler likes this. -
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But first i need to get it ;P
Maybe someone can try it out in the meantime and provide us with some battery test ? -
And yes, I suggested that someone run controlled battery tests before and after disconnecting the touchscreen cable a few posts back as well. -
I just got a mail that they shipped mine already on 18.12.2013
So excited now.
Ordered: 03.12.2013
Shipped: 18.12.2013
My contact person wrote the shipping from China to Germany should take around 10 days. Hopefully it comes direct after Christmas. -
Many topics are here and one should think about to separate these into own threads (many just-user-experiences on pre-installed software are mixed with some hardware)
My main interests here:
- a) get rid of the damn coil whine noise problem
- b) get tips for more battery life
- c) get tips for linux specific kernel tweaking, especially with kernel-paramteres for intel (my boot process looks terible noisy at the moment, but than very happy about the performcance!)
Before I come to a) I just want to mention that I replaced the hdd with my own ssd (512gb). Last week I removed also the msata shipped as cache for the mechanical drive. - Just had the hope it could cause the noise problem some users have. ... But it did not. Nevertheless I may safe now 0.5 watts and the laptiop is now 10g less of weight.
I'm very interested about the battey life time, if the touchscreen is disabled.
But I think we just will get 101% happy with our xps 9530 if we get an modded bios!
Because:
- everyone could disable NFC or Touchscreen or NVIdia (competently 0 Watts) on their own purpose/use - independent of any software hacks
- I'm for 100% sure that the coil whining problem could be solved if we get access for the ADVANCED BIOS MENU. Some adjustment of voltages and or freqencies could cure the problem. - why?
to a) the coil whining noise problem:
Why?:
I did some investigations about the coil whining and cpu frequencies (mainly Coretemp and prime95):
To make it short:
1) If I limit the cpu scaling 70,80 or 90% of max. freqency I get different sounds of coil whining. Very loud and annoying!
2) if one allows 100%, e.g. max. freqencies there is no coil whining. - The same for the 2 lowest CPU freqencies: No noise!
So the noises are caused not by the full current flow as many proposed, but some interferences at intermediate clocking speeds. What we hear is the scaling in-between ~1000 MHz to ~ 2500 MHz. (max. cap. of CPU approx. 2700 MHZ)
Therefore I suggest that maybe just tiny changes of the FSB frequencies or options as 'spread spectrum' COULD probably solve this electrical resonance problem!
And now?
There are some experienced bios modders who managed it to get this crappy hackable UEFI bios'es nowadays modded. Also for the last XPS model. We really need them to solve our problems and get us access to the advanced bios settings! So if anybody is active in other forums, maybe he could motivate some of those brilliant hackers to help us.chasgames likes this.
XPS 15 (Haswell) Owner's Lounge
Discussion in 'Dell XPS and Studio XPS' started by mark_pozzi, Oct 23, 2013.