XPS 15 (Haswell) Owner's Lounge

Yes, technically they're both MLC in that the M stands for "multi", which could mean 2-bit or 3-bit. But for disambiguation purposes, it's common to use MLC to refer to 2-bit NAND (as opposed to SLC) and to refer to 3-bit NAND as TLC (T = triple), which is what I was doing.

But yes, I'd agree that the PM851 may be a downgrade, but Dell never guarantees a particular model SSD when you purchase it, so you'd be unlikely to get an SM841 instead. The PM851 is probably cheaper, and for all I know Samsung might not even produce the SM841 anymore.

 

Interesting comments about throttling, I wonder if the reboot workaround works for others who have been complaining. Sounds like they tested the display performance before disabling splendid mode again though... Dell is really shooting themselves in the foot by having that enabled by default because it's causing reviewers to have mediocre to poor impressions of a display that's absolutely outstanding once that option is turned off. And the fact that said option is in a completely unintuitive location doesn't help either.

UPDATE: I heard back from the AnandTech review author after I mentioned splendid mode. He was completely unaware of it and immediately noticed the impact it had on color reproduction, so he's rerunning the LCD numbers and will update the article.

 

I had add something to my post:

Unfortunately, PM851 is not based on 840 EVO mSata as you can see in the follow Samsung Data Sheet, 840 EVO msata uses 1x nm Samsung Toggle DDR 2.0 NAND Flash Memory (400Mbps) while PM851 uses Samsung 21 nm TLC NAND.
Also performance of 840 EVO msata are enough better than PM851 specially in writting mode.

http://www.samsung.com/it/business-images/resource/case-study/2014/02/Samsung_SSD_840_EVO_mSATA_Data_Sheet_ITA-0.PDF

It seems that I will get a second replacement , if it will come with a PM851 might I try an exchange between SSD?

 

Well the flash memory information you provided between the two units isn't directly comparable. All you found on the PM851 is that it's 21nm TLC NAND. We already know the Evo uses TLC NAND, but even if there's a lithography difference, that by itself doesn't mean there's a performance difference. Where are you finding directly comparable benchmarks of the two drives? Finding two independent benchmarks isn't a great way to draw conclusions because many other variables can affect the final results (SSD firmware versions, AHCI driver versions, OS version, CPU, motherboard chipset, motherboard BIOS version, whether the SSD had been TRIMed/zeroed out prior to the write tests, etc.)

You won't be able to get a second replacement over the SSD. As I said in the post you quoted, Dell doesn't guarantee a particular hard drive model, only a type (SSD or magnetic) and capacity, so you can't return something just because you got a model you don't want. And even if you did get a customer service reps to agree to a replacement, I doubt they even have a way to specify a particular model on the parts dispatch order.

 

I have already got a replacement because the original system is came with scratch/stain over the lid, unfortunately my replacement is came with an eyebrow under the glass, my Dell rep has already announced a second replacement, my question is if the a second replacement will come with a PM851 might I try an exchange, by myself, between SM841 of the unit that I have to send back to Dell and my final (let me hope!) replacement?

 

OH! Yes if you have both systems at the same time and want to swap the SSDs between the two before you return one, that's definitely acceptable. The service tag on the returned system will still be correct, and you're returning exactly what you were promised when you ordered: a 512GB mSATA SSD model that's supported by Dell. I've done that before in order to avoid having to clone or rebuild my existing drive on the replacement; it's just easier to swap.

 

My order has finally gone into in-production but my ETA hasn't changed at all! It is still 3/25. Anyone else's changed?

 

I'm using data sheets supplied directly by Samsung:

PM851
Samsung PM851 Solid State Drive

840 EVO mSATA (sorry it's in Italian, but technical info are understandable)
L'SSD più evoluto per i portatili ultrasottili. -SSD 840 EVO - 500 GB - mSATA-Solid State Drive-840 EVO mSATA | SAMSUNG

PM851 has a max write sequential speed of 380MB/s
840 EVO mSATA has a max write sequential speed of 520MB/s

Moreover, there isn't references on any PM851 data sheet about Turbowrite technology which is what makes the difference in performance between PM851 and 840 EVO msata:

http://www.samsung.com/it/business-..._TurboWrite_Whitepaper_FINAL_PDF_131023-0.pdf

 

Thanks to all for the detailed explanations of the two SSD drives. I am going to keep the older SM841, and return a system with the PM851 - solely based on the increased write performance that was demonstrated by the CrystalMark tool:

PM851 (replacement system - Mar '14):



SM841 (original system - Jan '14):



Certain read speeds (512K) look faster also with the SM841. Thanks to jphughan for replying to my post with the drive information, I automatically assumed the newer drive was superior (performance wise), which it wasn't.

 

Can we all please, PLEASE make a pact not to keep posting about order status and ETAs? I truly don't see the value. This thread is already absurdly long, and the progress of one person's order just isn't useful or interesting information to the rest of the community. Regardless of the exact timing of someone else's in-production or shipping date, you'll get yours when you get it, so why is it important to know what's going on with other people's orders?

 

Eh, that's a 15-20% difference at most, some of that could be individual test variance. Since you're posting a screenshot it looks like you only ran one test rather than averaging from multiple tests -- and that's on top of the other factors I mentioned like the TRIM status perhaps not being equal between the two drives. But even if the SM841 is faster on writes (which I certainly believe it is), it's clear to me that the difference isn't substantial enough to really worry about. Even if it really is a 15-20% difference in writes, I doubt that would be noticed in real-world usage. If anything I'm actually impressed that Samsung has gotten TLC to perform so closely on writes to MLC.

 

Also SM841 has a greater endurance than PM851.
What's the reason because you have obtained a replacement?
I guess is because there is some kind of issue on your original system, maybe you could try to exchange the SSDs between the 2 units, if your replacement is better than original system except for SSD.

 

I wouldn't really consider endurance a real-world factor. I wrote about this earlier when discussing the 840 Pro vs Evo:

 

Fair enough,

I was only doing so to highlight the stupidity of the Syncreon tracking page to anyone who was having concerns about why there'd been no update as I'd spoken to someone from Syncreon and shed some light on the matter.

But if that's not important I'll shut up.

 

^^ +1

You are not an owner until you get it so stop spamming the thread.

 

The irony of replying to a "please stop spamming the thread" request with a "+1"

 

In my case, quitting the game and launching it again kills the throttling, no need of reboot itself.

I had complained about the throttling to Dell and they replaced my motherboard yesterday. The throttling didn't go away. They are still doing the troubleshooting. Once I factory restored the machine (absolutely no driver or Windows updates installed except BIOS to A02), BF4 runs at 30 fps consistent (in the default power profile). I couldn't get throttling to trigger even when I kept it on my lap for almost 20-25 minutes with my legs blocking the vents partially. Note that I was getting 30-50 fps with all the latest drivers and throttling would get triggered within 5 minutes as long as laptop is not on level surface (even if nothing is blocking the vents).

 

I also think that's what's happening. You can change the setting in BIOS.

 

My XPS 15 takes much longer than my last few systems (with SSDs) to wake up from a closed lid. Am I understanding things correctly that if I disable Intel Rapid Start in the BIOS this should take care of that? Talk to me like I'm a 3rd grader.

 

Probably. If Rapid Start is enabled, your system is probably entering Rapid Start hibernation rather than conventional sleep mode when you close the lid or choose Sleep, in which case it will of course take longer to resume. Turn it off and see what happens.

Otherwise, someone else mentioned having long resume times even after disabling Rapid Start, and apparently it turned out that GPU drivers had to be completely uninstalled and then the latest versions of each had to be reinstalled.

 

I just got my replacement machine and I was wondering how do you know if the touchscreen firmware was already applied out of the box?

The other thing I noticed reading through this topic is that there is a mention of Dell using a different SSD. Any idea why they changed the SSD?

 

Just run the update (as administrator) if it already updated then nothing will happen.
If it's not updated warning! Someone has bricked his touchscreen with this update

Have you already checked which SSD is installed in your machine? Maybe you have the usual SM841.

 

After poking around a bit, I haven't discovered a way to determine the screen's firmware version. I can confirm that when I received my new build last month, it did not have the new firmware installed, in spite of the fact that it's been available since December of last year. If it has already been installed, attempting to reinstall should just give you a message that it has been already installed. No harm, no foul.

If your touchscreen stops functioning intermittently, I think it's safe to assume that it has not been installed.

As for the change in SSD models, my best guess would be either a lower cost alternative, availability of the original model, or perhaps both. Maybe someone with more insight can add to that?

 

Speaking of screen and firmware, do you guys think that disabling and enabling the touchscreen driver (back and forth) is potentially harmful to the actual hardware itself? I have disabled the touchscreen for battery preservation (which actually works, surprisingly), but what if I want to go back and enable it and then disable it, etc? I doubt it would be threatening to the actual touchscreen itself, right?

 

I doubt it'll affect the touch screen, but I'm not computer/electrical engineer. I'm curious how much battery life saving you get?

 

I'm pretty sure there would be zero negative effect to disabling/re-enabling the touch screen driver. It's software, so it's not like you're actually tinkering with the hardware end of things.

Having said that, unless you're actively using the touchscreen, it seems pretty likely that the power the touch interface consumes is negligible. Turning it off probably yields similarly negligible savings in power consumption. Probably on the same level as turning off the touchpad, if you're not actively using it...next to nothing.

It's not like a radio: Bluetooth, WiFi, NFC, that's constantly sending receiving a wireless signal. That uses lots of power, all the time, more so when it's actively searching to establish a connection. A touch interface likely spends a lot of time in a very low power sleep state, until you actively touch it for use.

Of course turning off anything is bound to save a little power, but I can't imagine the savings here is even worth the bother. I'd bet it's probably in the neighborhood of less than one percent and your observed power savings is more a combination of other factors and a placebo effect. You think you're saving power, therefore you must be.

 

I had this same problem as well, and it has been resolved, but I don't know precisely what fixed it. Short summary was I disabled Rapid Start Software and in BIOS then "clean" installed NVIDIA drivers. As far as I'm concerned, there are basically 3 levels of resume one can see:

1. Instantly or 1-2 secs - resuming from sleep
2. 6-10 secs from pressing the power button (and you see a little Dell spinner) - resuming from Hibernation
3. 30 secs - x minutes - there is a problem (this is where I was) - resuming from something bad (and likely a bluescreen before or after)

I've added a post to the wiki for "clean" installing drivers, hopefully it can help with your issue - please update the wiki FAQ/troubleshooting with your findings if it does
Clean Install Nvidia Drivers - XPS 15 Wiki

 

I don't know of a way to check the current firmware version on the touchscreen. You might find a version number under the Details tab of its Device Manager entry (either the touchscreen device or the USB Input Device option) under one of the many dropdowns in there, but I'm not at my system right now so I can't check. Otherwise, if your touchscreen stops responding intermittently, it probably needs the update. Yes it has bricked two people's touchscreens entirely, but lots of other people have run it without issues. Of course if your touchscreen is currently working just fine, then I guess you can always choose to play it safe. If it ain't broke....

In terms of the SSD change, Dell frequently has multiple suppliers for lots of their components to avoid a shortage from one supplier on one component preventing them from building entire systems -- like what happened with the QHD+ panels, for which there apparently isn't another supplier at the moment, but that's a perfect example of why Dell tries to avoid single-supplier parts whenever possible. Of course in this particular case it seems that both SSD options are from Samsung, so I'm guessing that the PM851 is cheaper and/or Samsung may be phasing out MLC in favor of TLC overall, which would mean the SM841 wouldn't be available for much longer. I wouldn't worry about it at all though.

 

Hello all.

I have been reading this thread for awhile and ended up getting an excellent deal on a XPS 9530. I have recently purchased a rMBP 15 with intel iris pro and I am debating which to keep.

I checked some of the things that users here have posted:

1. SSD - SM841
2. No dead pixels or IR (as of yet)

Can anyone tell me in detail what else I should check within this return period to make sure everything is in working order?

Thank you in advance and this thread has been a great help so far!

 

Your best bet for easily accessible information that has been culled from this thread and compiled for easy reference is here:
XPS 15 Wiki

If you have any questions that aren't specifically addressed on the wiki, feel free to ask here.

Good luck and congratulations!

 

Thank you for your response. I am going through the wiki lists as I type this but it seems there is no information on checking the usual defects that affect this model.

Is there such a wiki that lists what you should look out for and check for any defects?

Also regarding the coil whine, I have my laptop on AC and I can't seem to replicate it. Is it something Dell has already fixed? My XPS is a refurbished model so maybe they already fixed the issue?

Thanks,

 

I thought I'd mention that my original system didn't have splendid mode enabled by default, whereas my first replacement system did. So, it may not be enabled by default for everyone.

FYI, function key mode (requiring pressing of the fn key for media controls and the like) were also reversed, with my original acting as function keys by default, and replacement acting as media controls by default. That's easily swapped though, so not a big deal.

 

No coil whine is a good thing. Aside from that, screen flaws like dead pixels, pressure points, and dust under the glass seem to be the most common complaints.

 

Dell hasn't confirmed that coil whine has been fixed, but not every system that's been shipped thus far has it either. But why are you so worried about checking everything upfront? If your unit has a defect you have at least a year during the warranty period to find it and get it fixed for free. The only thing you should be worrying about within the return window is whether there are design-related differences that cause you to prefer this machine or the rMBP.

But the most common defect complaints are coil whine, dead/stuck pixels, dust and other debris under the display glass, and a pressure point on the display (not a major issue IMHO considering it only surfaces when you grab the lid....).

The most common design complaints compared to the rMBP have been the battery life and the look and feel of the keyboard and touchpad.

 

Yeah I still have 6 days left to return the macbook and I actually got a really good deal on that one as well that's why I just want to make sure that everything will be problem free on this Dell before returning it .

Your right though I think I'm being a bit too OCD on this and everything seems to be running okay so I will be keeping it.

Thanks,

 

You and everyone else, it seems. Lol
Enjoy your new machine and don't spend all your time looking for flaws that probably aren't there.

 

My Brother is Anti Apple so I ordered him a XPS 9530, with the 512gb HDD, 16gb ram and 750m GT for 1500. I guess it's not bad but I was able to get a same specced system rMBP for 1600.

 

I don't want to pollute this thread, but I just want to say that my top tier has been shipped today at an order date of 2/2/2014.

That's all.

 

So you saved a hundred bucks over a MacBook, that your brother wouldn't have wanted anyway, on a system he did want? Sounds like a win-win to me!

 

Okay, everyone -- I was going to make a separate thread for this, but then I realized this thread exists.

Here is my question:

I plan on making the move to purchase two aftermarket parts: a 1TB Samsung EVO and a 480GB Crucial mSATA to replace the 1TB HDD and 32GB mSATA on my XPS 15.

What should I be aware of before making this change? Specifically, what should I do to make sure I don't run into issues? Such as in the BIOS to configure this set up to work simultaneously and so on. I tried doing something like this before on a different device and it only recognized the SSD. My plan is to install the OS on the 480GB Crucial and to have the 1TB EVO for files and miscellaneous programs, if needed. I will be installing Windows 8.1 (not Pro since I have no use for the extra clutter on it).

The last time I did something like this (successfully) was ona Windows 7 machine. I have not freshly installed 8/8.1 (I haven't needed it until now since I have my XPS 15).

 

I got the 512gb SSD for my brother.

 

This has been covered several times. Change the SATA mode in the BIOS from Intel Smart Response to AHCI so the two drives will be visible as independent drives, then proceed as normal. If you want to make absolutely sure that everything installs onto the mSATA drive, don't connect the 2.5" drive until after Windows is installed. I've seen some cases of Windows placing a bootloader or its other support partitions on a disk that's considered "first" in the system even if Windows itself is installed to another disk, so only having one disk connected during installation would avoid any possibility of that.

But why not get the Evo mSATA rather than the Crucial?

 

So, I just received my (refurbished) Top-tier XPS 15:

It makes a lot of 'chatter', similar to that of older HDDs, but this has no HDD...is this the coil sound that people have been talking about? Edit: The chatter happens during CPU load, typically. Most often noticed when webpages are loading.

Also, in HWmonitor, my TZ01 temp never dips below 56c, this seems high for idle. Light gaming bumps it up to 85+c. Is this normal?

 

How are all the rest of your temps during idle and full load? core 0~3 and gpu

 

http://i.imgur.com/yEZJla8.png

This is from a fresh boot, picture taken after 20 minutes of gaming (Kerbal Space Program!)

 

I received my system back in January, and it had some defects: coil whine, the screen had a horrible ghosting-like problem and dust underneath. I received a full replacement a few days ago. I have yet to hear any coil whine.

Because the old unit won't be picked up until the 21nd, I'm able to compare the two, and I noticed a few surprising hardware differences:

- The keyboard feels improved to me. It's less stiff and the feedback is nicer (clickier).
- The coating on the palm rest is less rubbery (also a bit thicker). It still feels soft, but it doesn't catch dust as easily.

As for when these improvements were made I wouldn't know, of course. Maybe my previous unit was just a really early one. (I ordered it early December.)

Shockingly, though, the screen has the exact same ghosting-like problem. I was told over in the M3800 thread that this isn't normal, but I'm getting worried now, so I'd really appreciate it if someone could chime in.

The problem: I can see trails of up to 1.5-2 cm that last about 200-400ms. It varies per background color: dark grey or blue seem to be the worst. It seems different from typical ghosting: I noticed red and purple leave a black trail when moving against a green background (e.g. the news tile in the start menu).

Does no one else have this?

 

Hmm, I will remember that. I would love to get an EVO mSATA instead, but they're more expensive. Not entirely familiar with the two's performance, but if the Samsung beats the Crucial, I may just go for that regardless. I may entirely wait until the summertime to purchase my parts since sales tend to be awesome for hardware around that time.

 

Oh, I did have an additional question about the backlighting on the keyboard that I couldn't find the answer to anywhere else.
Does the backlighting affect battery life?

 

Sure. Anything that uses power will affect battery life. Does it affect a lot? No.

The backlighting is generated by extremely low power LEDs. Having it turned on versus having it turned off will not extend or decrease your battery life by any noticeable margin. You'd be lucky to get an extra minute or two of run time by turning it off, IMO.

In saying this, I'm referring to the default setting, where the keyboard stays illuminated for a minute, then goes dark, until you use the touchpad or keyboard again. If you have it turned on constantly, then sure, it'll use more power. Still, the amount of power used by the LEDs that light the keyboard is next to nothing in comparison to every other component of the laptop.

To summarize, using the keyboard backlighting at the default setting is unlikely to decrease your runtime on battery my any real amount.

 

Anyone here knows if the XPS 15 can output via HDMI or Displayport to a 4K UHD TV?

Thanks in advance?