XPS 15 (L521X) Owner's Lounge

You cannot compare notebook relying on the spec sheet if the cooling system doesn't allow the GPU to keep its nominal speed.

At the moment while gaming I'm using my XPS15 limiting the CPU frequency to 2.1Ghz and the GPU to 575Mhz. The GPU reaches 88 °C with 30 °C ambient. If for any reason DELL needs to clamp the GPU at 70 °C, the effective frequency of the 640M will be equal or less a 640M LE.

 

With office load the XPS15 is nearly silent in summer, so I expect it will be completely silent starting from autumn.

(but if you use an external monitor or a program that turn-on the discrete GPU like Photoshop, obliviously the system noise will increase.)

 

I would agree with silver on this, it's not very loud at desktop. The fan only seems to spin up if you're really stressing the system.

I found a dead pixel on my screen on friday and called in to Dell. They say they'll replace it so if that happens I won't be as upset but it seems like this model has a lot of problems. I would probably avoid buying one until they have worked this stuff out.

However, I'm not upset enough to return it. I'm fairly certain that even if revised cooling is required that Dell will retrofit it into the existing systems based on my experience with their support up to this point.

 

pushing 2 hard drives will decrease your battery life....i don't know if the envy has an mSATA slot, but that would be the preferred method to go, like my XPS has 128gb mSATA and 512gb SSD

 

as a former Sony Vaio S owner, i can tell you that it also throttles making it perform like other cards of yesteryear

 

Hi everybody,
More information on the Linux ground regarding the wifi issue.

When I posted my last results some days ago, it was with the standard Linux kernel provided by Ubuntu 12.04. This kernel has some issues regarding the Ivy Bridge platform and causes system crashes.

I added a more recent kernel to my system, and I'm able to post updated and more detailed results. My first tests were performed 1.5m (4,5 ft I guess) from the wifi router, and for reminder, the N mode is disabled, my download speed was 12,XX MB/s, my upload speed was 0,86 Mb/s and my ping was around 30 ms.

With the new updated kernel, I did the same tests but 4 m (12 ft) from the router, the results are:
download: 10,8 Mb/s
upload 0,86 Mb/s
ping: 30 ms.

So not a so big difference.

I also did some "real life" testing by:
- watching a movie (DVD quality) stored on the wifi router internal nas
- watching a HD movie (720p) stored on the wifi router internal nas
- watching TV on my ADSL channel (over the wifi of course)
- watching HDTV on my ADSL channel (over the wifi of course)

I tried these on both 1,5m and 4m distances, but always plugged in to the AC power, and to me there is no difference, all these videos are played smoothly without artefacts. So, to me, I don't find any specific wifi issue.

 

Does Inssider work with Linux? Secondly could you tell me what your internet subscription speed is?

 

Wait, so you upgraded the hd to ssd yourself then?

 

yes, my first xps was the 1600 dollar one, and i bought samsung 830 at 679 and installed it...but then ordered the 2300 dollar one that already comes with 512ssd AND 16gb (better value than buying my own ssd and 16gb of ram) for same amount as upgrading my current one

i have a spare 128gb mSATA and am using that for music and photos

 

Hi Risco,
It seems a Linux version of Inssider does exist, so I can do some testing, feel free to ask.

Regarding my internet connection, it doesn't work like that in France. When you subcribe for an ADSL connection, you get the maximum speed your hardware phone line can provide. In my case, I'm at 1750 m from my provider ADSL switch, so 12 Mb/s ia pretty the maximum I can get, optic fiber is not available for me.

 

Ok so for the wifi/ throttling issues: 1: on a scale of 1 to unusable how bad is it? 2: what are the chances of those issues getting resolved in the next month or two?

 

No. It isn't too loud. Unmodified it is compareable to my MBP.
Overall I'm glad to leave the Apple jail and rejoin the relative MS/Linux freedom.

The one an only thing I want is to lower the fanspeed to ~about 1900-2100 RPM, which should be enough to keep it cool and silent at normal work (surfing the web, writing...)

 

Well looks like my GPU is borked. As soon as I play any games and it heats up, it disappears from device manager and my fps tanks. I then need to reboot to get it back. Tried all the beta bios to no avail.

 

did anyone tried to repaste, yet?

 

I can't imagine a repaste as having more than a 2-4DegC difference using the best pastes available and properly applied. Whoever builds these for Dell, likely used Shin Etsu paste slathered on what some might consider "thickly."

Lapping the heatsink might make a 5-8DegC difference if done right then using some of the better thermal compounds on the market.

 

on the l502x, i did get temperatures of 99°C CPU, 90°C GPU by playing starcraft 2, i replaced the thermal compound with liquid ultra and i did get 78°C CPU 83°C GPU by SC2.

so u can see it makes a huge difference.

it would be nice if someone who repasted/will repaste with liquid ultra/phobia/AC Diamond could post their temperatures before and afterwards.

 

That's very impressive. Most notebooks don't see that sort of a difference. Was there thermal paste on there or did they use a thermal pad instead?

 

I have read many review on Coollaboratory Liquid Metal.
I found something that scares, look this image:


Liquide Thermique + alu = gros probléme

This is a copper heatsink with aluminum parts like XPS, as you can see liquid metal has corroded aluminum parts.
Another problem of liquid metal is that erase code over CPU in desktop processors and this void processors warranty.
I don't know if these things happen with liquid ultra but surely happen with Liquid Pro (first generation of Coollaboratory liquid metal).
I'm very interesting to repaste with Liquid Metal Ultra,
but i'm scared by this warning.

Sorry for this OT, but I guess is better to avoid that someone uses this paste without to know this warning.

 

@2.0
they did use normal thermal compound (plenty of it) no thermal pad

@mac
yeahh, u have to take care not putting the paste on aluminium or any other parts of yout notebook (it´s conductive)
normally (as on my vostro 1500 and the xps l502x) the place of the heatsink where it touches the CPU/GPU is made of copper. so it should be no problem if u do it right. anyway, perhaps it will change the colour of your heatsink. i know, that u had to to abrade your CPU if u wanted to remove the liquid PRO, by using the liquid ULTRA u should be able to remove the paste by a normnal rag, but i didn´t tried it yet.

if you want to be on the secure side, u can also use "innovation cooling diamond 7" it has nearly the same great cooling abilities as the liquid metal pastes and is harmless to Aluminium and is not conductive, but it´s pretty hard to get a thin coat on your CPU:
Application

 

Yes, someone has already tried, but almost nothing is changed, unfortunately He haven't said what kind of paste has used:
http://forum.notebookreview.com/del...ps-15-l521x-owners-lounge-42.html#post8698777

I suggest this site with nice comparative for thermal paste:
Skinnee Labs | Taking the guess work out of PC Cooling

 

Reminded me my lappy. After two years of service temps would go 90+ for GPU and <90 for CPU. After repaste they were down to 70 (68ish) for CPU and 80 (77ish) GPU under the same "gaming conditions".
I used Arctic MX4.

 

Hi. I received my XPS 15 a week ago (the version with core i7, 8GB RAM, no blu-ray).
I expected the worst reading this thread, so here are my feelings :

- Wifi issue :
I notice it, but it is still usable. My download speed fluctuates between 1 and 7 MB/s, while, from the same place (about 8m from the router) my old XPS 1530 allowed me to reach 14 MB/s (which is the speed of my internet line). Upload speed is always at 0,8 MB/s, which is normal.
Upgrading the Intel Wifi driver from 15.1.1 to 15.2 did not change anything. I strictly have the same results.

- Throttling issue :
I am probably concerned, but I did not notice it yet in practical use.
I played Assassin's Creed Revelations during hours at 1920x1080 at max quality (including antialiasing and anisotropic filter) without a single lag.
To try a more recent game, I installed Skyrim, and I already played 1 hour at "high" quality, 1920x1080, and it was fairly usable, even during the impressive intro scene with the dragon.

I am still using the A04 BIOS, and did not updated the nVidia drivers.

If I have the time, I still would like to check if the laptop is able to properly compute some Ansys Fluent simulations. Throttling or heat shutdown in that case would be a dealbreaker, even if I won't use this kind of software everyday...


Actually, I have other disappointments :
- the battery is FAAAAR too long to charge !
- The glossy screen ! (and too bad, because such a bright screen would be usable outside if matt...)
- The shortcuts for sound, display bright sometime do not work properly, especially when I am using a dual-screen (the pop-up does not appears, or the button does not work at all).
What software is in charge of that ? Dell Quickset ? I am expecting a software fix.



But so far, I am quite happy ! Build quality is really awesome, and the PC is really responsive in everyday's use.

 

I'm looking forward to reding your experience in that scenario, thank you!

 

I did not know this. Thanks for posting.

Exactly my thought now. Before I was wondering what would happen with cache+SSD. Now I don't.

Good one. I'll pass it along. Thanks for pointing this out.

Final update on throttling. I have to follow up on 2 things from this message- when does A06 post? and Are we skipping A05? I'll update those items when I hear back. Dell official response:

Over the past week we have developed and refined a new test Bios, which under gameplay environment, will allow the GPU to rise slightly above our development spec. Based on valuable customer feedback and internal assessment, we believe the new Bios release (A06), now offers the ideal balance between system performance and user experience. Through constant tweaks and refinements, we have been able to push the boundaries to draw out the best possible performance from the system without sacrificing on user comfort. The XPS line has been designed from the ground up to perform at the highest level across a wide spectrum of applications, and deliver an uncompromised user experience. For users looking for more graphics performance for intensive gaming applications, we recommend users to consider our extensive Alienware range, dedicated to all their gaming needs.

 

Bill, do you have any update for us on the WiFi issue?

 

Oops. Sorry. Forgot to post on that. I have no updates as of this time. Desperately seeking information.

 

Thanks Bill. The WiFi issue is the only issue making me hold off on a purchase. I think there are others like me, too.

 

Bill is there any way I can get a test of this bios? I think my GPU is toast as it keeps uninstalling itself after a gaming session forcing a reboot?

 

Thanks for the update...

For your info, you could have put 4gb of ram inside (3.25gb usable, even if you had a 64-bit cpu, you were capped at 4gb because of chipset). As for heat, yes mine did get hot, but yours probably needed clean-up and repaste, as these numbers are incredibly high... Yours seemed to be in much worse condition than mine is currently. That 9400 was a real dust gatherer and needed frequent cleaning. I've managed to play blu-rays on it, with updated graphic card, althought it was limit, meaning the computer wouldn't be able to do nothing in background if you wanted smooth blu-ray HD playback!

Looking foward for the reduced size too, even more so if it doesn't feel that much because of the different screen ratio as you say. However, I would have prefered to stay at 16:10, the perfect ratio to see two 8½"x11" sheets side by side in MS Word.

As for opening it on the plane, I totally concur... Had the same problem on couch buses... Athough I've always blamed my belly

Like me, although I won't be able to hold out much longer, as my deadline approach. Let's hope we get news soon, as I would really prefer the L521x over my plan B.

 

This doesn't really surprise me, I saw on notebookcheck that the Vaio s13p put the GPU throttling threshold at 71 °C, like the DELL beta bios.

At the moment, I have no elements for trusting any ivy+kepler notebook, this is the main reason I kept the XPS15. I think DELL is taking a lot of bashing that maybe it doesn't deserve, but it is because its role in the food-chain, because the XPS15 it is one of few premium consumer notebooks, and because of the A04 bios behavior.

Let's hope it is just a problem of finding the right balance between performance and "user experience", and not something like that nVidia discovered a thermal hot-spot on Kepler later in the development. Just kidding.

 

Hi Risco, is it still borked? Do you used the A04 bios before this problem?

 

Yup, keeps bloody uninstalling itself.

Update:

Top marks to Dell support. They were falling over themselves to help me. Here is what they told me:

1 Bios fix inside hopefully 10-15 working days that will alleviate throttling.
2 Other regions aware of this.
3 Bios update, and driver updates from nVidia and Intel to combat throttling and wifi issues.
4 I was offered an Alienware as an upgrade, but I don't want a flash bulky northern lights laptop lol.
5 I can apply for a refund now or wait for the fix. If this still does not resolve, then I can apply for a full refund.

That is what I call good customer service, what is frustrating is that the engineers and beta testers did not pick up on this. I think Dell could save themselves a lot of grief if it was done properly.

 

If throtteling was the only issue I would keep the XPS, but wifi is just unacceptable. Last night I was copying 6GB of data from the XPS to my nas at 7 meters distance from my router.
it took over 3 hours!

I think I will go for the Inspiron SE now. I'm now digging trough the forum to see if there are no issues with this model. have you hear anything about this model?

 

I justed talked to ProSupport, and they are going to replace the antenna this Wednesday of my L521X, hope this fixes the problem.

FYI, I checked speedtest with WiFi, and it gives me 0,9Mbit on down and 2,1Mbit. With the cable it jumps to 49,9Mbit down and 2,5Mbit up.

 

This is so odd. I mean I'm getting, from the corner of my house one floor up with a few walls between me and the router.. Wireless N at 2.4GHz

13Mbps down and 3Mbps up

We're talking a good 40' away at least..

 

Wished I had that, I have a Cisco AP1142 in my house with 2 SSIDs, one on 2.4 and one on 5 GHz, none of the networks give my more power. I already changed channels, bandwidth, frequency etc. etc.

Tested all the networks with a early 2011 MBP and my darling ( XPS M1530 ) and all jump up to the 50Mbit... But this notebook just won't...

 

Highly inconsistent (call me Mr. Obvious)

I'm running a Belkin N+ with its one and only 2.4 GHz channel. I did multiple tests over the weekend and I have been getting 23-29 Mbit with a service of 30 Mbit. That's positioned one floor up and ten feet feet away through 1 wall. I'm hoping that I'm one of the lucky ones...

 

I don't think there are any "lucky ones." Everyones laptop here has the same issue. There are so many other variables that affect performance: ISP type, location to ISP hubs, internet speeds, building materials, sources of RF interference, quality of Wireless AP, proper configuration of router and internet settings, the list goes on and on.

Some people just have more RF-friendly conditions than others.

We all know there is a problem with the WiFi of this laptop, but getting different speed test results at different places at your place and compare to someone else--that's like comparing apples to fricken broccoli.

If you are reading about someone who is getting better performance than you, then ask them what their conditions are...what router do they have...what are their walls made of, what kind of sources of interference are present where they have been recording results?

 

That's why I did not go into the details, because I just made a test in my house with different notebooks on exact the same place.

So for me the issue is reproducable so I can prove them to the engineer if he cannot fix it.

And indeed, we all have problems...

 

i am not sure that is entirely true. I've read about people with clear line of sight and barely getting 1mb right next to router. I have clear line of sight and I get the max my ISP allows(20MBps)...

If your assumptions are true, everyone should get their max right next to their router (or at least better than what they are reporting)

 

After the numbers some people got back, I too, believe there is a few lucky one out there.

A few users have reported speeds at their ISP maximum, near or well above 20Mbps, while not being so close to their Access Point.

It's possible some of them were actually closer than they though, or had a repeater nearby, whatever, that would explain this... But still, it's enough to cast a doubt on whether all system are affected or not!

And if it's true, than the problem is even more serious than a driver issue... As I see it, it would indicate a problem with the hardware itself, as I was pointing last week when I was suggesting the aluminium case might get energized somehow, and blocking the signal!

 

Your assertion (based on my assumptions) is incorrect. Variables such as a sub-par router, incompatible wireless settings, RF interference, etc., etc., means that everyone may not get their "Max ISP" speeds "right next to the router." There are so many ambiguities and generalizations going on here, it's impossible to tell anything other than that there is a widespread problem.

Everyone is free to believe that some people are "lucky" with better performing wireless, but that doesn't make it true. I found my outer-aluminum chassis to be floating and not grounded when I voltage probed it. I very much believe that there is a manufacturing defect rate (related to the wireless assembly) that is going on, and those people should see horrible or no WiFi performance.

 

if I can get a solid 20mbps from every computer in my house including the 521, then what does that say?

now if every other pc got 20mbps and my dell only got 5, then that's another story but that is not the case for me and others who have posted.

 

It could be access point placement and quality, I suppose. Most people don't know what materials affect the signal.

Anyone having problems can try some of these things that can help:

- Locate your access point on the middle floor of your house, near the center
- Do not place the access point near any large pieces of metal or glass, AP on metal shelves can be a serious performance issue.
- Do not place your access point near large electrical appliances or electrical boxes.
- Buy an access point that supports Mimo and has at least 2 antennas. 5Ghz support could help too.

And if you're running tests make sure you're not using any pre wi-fi N equipment because they will lower speed your access point can operate at.

As for me I'm getting about 22mbps throughout my house now (a bit +/-).

 

I'm pretty sure that it has been said already but i see no point testing the WAN speed over the wireless, the low speeds that people might be getting could be the result of transient events and not something final, what they should be doing is testing on the LAN side, like copying a big file (MKV for example) from a NAS or shared drive over the wireless lan, also it's possible that someone could use iperf to test the speed to the maximum.

Btw, the differences in speed that people might be getting could be the result of using different encryption why dont u guys try changing WPA to WPA2 TKIP and AES and playing with the values, maybe with the 20/40MHz channels and so on maybe someone would hit the jackpot and discover the failure.

 

I sympathize with your point of view and have been trying to explain my similar perspective. Please check out my thread in which I do test a local-network based file transfer.

http://forum.notebookreview.com/dell-xps-studio-xps/680190-xps-15-l521x-wifi-test-results.html

 

When someone runs a speed test say, three times with another laptop and gets an average of 15 Mbps down, and then 1 Mbps down with the L521X from the same spot, that proves that all those bold items are not the problem, since they are a constant factor between the two.

So instead of believing that some are lucking, you just believe that some are unlucky? That's semantics, and somewhat depends on the actual rate of people affected.

As long as people aren't hitting pretty close to their max rated internet bandwidth, using speedtest.net is perfectly fine. Their servers are quite reliable and will deliver at rates far exceeding 99% of people's internet speeds. Besides, WAN speeds are the only thing 90% of users will ever care about.

You are demanding a level of scientific rigor that simply isn't necessary to prove something worthwhile. Leave the anechoic chamber testing to Dell.

 

@ Dell Bill: Will this new bios also address the fact that this L521x gets pretty darn hot? As with everyone else, I'm also experiencing MAJOR issues with wi-fi to the point where I just want to put the laptop down and not use it. I really hope this gets addressed immediately by Dell technicians. Thank you.

 

I have a inspiron 17R SE which i tested side by side with the XPS 15 and the xps 15 was lucky to get 1-2 mb while the 17R has 17-18 mb around the whole house.
In other words the XPS15 wifi does not even come into the same league as it cheaper model.
Says a lot about the XPS15