XPS 15 (L521X) Owner's Lounge

Drivers and Downloads | Dell [United States]

 

agreed, my bad.

Actually, in today's world of mass production, consumption, and trash generation, I disagree. For mass market devices - which even the XPS 15 is, regardless of what any fans think about it - I theorize that the new-sales to people who will largely remain clueless of issues and never report nor complain and just live with it as-shipped are FAR FAR GREATER in number than those (like us) who take the time to figure out what's what and appropriately when something isn't running to spec.

It's really about numbers, in the consumer economy that we live in.

It's completely crappy, but that's where we are I fear.

 

That is exactly what I expected. Finally an honest support centre.
I do not expect any fix before months, and probably no fix at all. It is probably less expensive to develop an all new laptop...

My concern is that I still do not know if I really have the wifi problem. As my internet connexion is not very fast (10 Mbit/s), Speedtest is not a effective test...
I have 2 to 5 Mbit/s down - 0,8 Mbit/s up, which is quite good compared with other results I read here, but who knows if I won't have problems with others wifi networks... (my future University for instance)

 

I have no idea on ETA. We are still investigating multiple points of potential failure. We've identified more than one theory, and need to work through these before we roll out a comprehensive fix. If you held a gun to my head, I'd roughly guesstimate in terms of weeks instead of months or days, but that's pure speculation and is in no way meant to give an impression on time in either direction.

I actually do not work in customer service and have no access to the tools needed to provide service. They took all that away when they kicked me upstairs. If you use the support links in my signature or just PM Lorna (I can get the exact NBR screen name if/when needed), she should be able to set up a return in Canada with restocking fees waived. If not, she knows who can.

If you have a workable workaround, I'd personally just wait it out. It won't be that long.

My policy knowledge is out of date, but in my tech support days, if you have 3 years of onsite warranty, you have international support options. I know for sure if you move long term to another country, provided we sell the system in that country, you can transfer the warranty to that country and use their support just as if you were still in your original country of purchase.

Most encouraging. This will be on my email to the engineers asking for feedback. I would set my CPU at 99% when gaming as well. I have made my final suggestion to engineering about throttling, and it was to have the BIOS clock the CPU down to 99% when the GPU is under load to keep a cap on the heat the CPU passes to the GPU when it runs in boost mode for too long.

It's not batches, but individual systems affected, which is part of the complexity around figuring it out. I'm straining at the seams to keep from spelling out what we're looking at, but it's been requested I not discuss the particulars and concentrate on reassuring everyone we have a fix coming. If you really start putting 2 and 2 together properly, you can guess at the root causes. Hint: it's not the chassis, it's not the card, it's not the driver, it's not RF interference from any one component, some systems are affected and some are not, unaffected systems have the same hardware (antenna, card, chassis, center hinge cover) as the affected systems. Chew on that for a while.

Bottom line: we'll fix it, and everyone will have the fix available.

A rather pessimistic view in light of the fact I've said repeatedly we're going to fix it, and no, the cost to develop a new laptop is way more than the cost to fix this issue. Besides, we have the next 2 generations already in planning or concept stages already.

 

tease.

You really need to stop feeding the mogwai after midnight and having them assemble things though, that'd probably clean up the inconsistencies right there.

 

NEXT 2 generations?
I WANT TO SEE SO BADLY

Bill, hire me as an Engineering intern

 

Who would ever do that? That wouldn't be any way to treat the best contact we have with Dell...

lol...

What does that leaves?

Don't tell me it's a code 18...

 

what I posted in the wireless thread :

so basically a on site tech came to replace my wireless card with the Dell 1901 card but the drivers didn't work on my laptop so they put back the original wireless card. I don't know if it was the onsite tech who didn't know what he was doing or dell tech support. They tried for 90min gave up and I was told that when they figure out the driver issue I will get a call. It didn't help that the onsite tech had to read a online manual to know how to open my laptop O_O...he also reconfigured my router talk about invasive and didn't really follow procedure of installing the drivers first and then putting the card in...

 

As far as your individual case, since you brought it up that way (bolded): I am an official company spokesperson, and I'm here telling you almost daily you will be eligible for the fix. So, no, you will not be left to rot.

As far as our corporate citizenship is concerned, we have various kinds of programs at Dell we use to resolve big systemic issues like this one. One is what we call a PFR, proactive field replacement, and one is referred to as "fix on fail." I can assure you with almost 100% certainty this will be fix on fail for a couple of reasons. 2 examples are the criteria for a PFR is, but not limited to, safety issues and the percentage of impacted customers. It's obviously not a safety issue, and it's not the #1 issue in the call centers or social media. It's up there in social, but not on the map in the call centers. I imagine after A06 gets out into the wild, WiFi will be the top issue in social until it's fixed.

We're not hiding anything. We've had this discussion with customers right here in the open on NBR and our own forums. I've even talked about it openly on Twitter. I'll probably blog about it on our corporate blog after we have something to say about a resolution. It's no secret. We have a WiFi problem. It's also no secret we're going to fix it, and everyone reporting the issue will have the fix available.

On another note, the reason tech support is often not aware of any particular issue is that we don't loop in entry level employees into the engineering investigating process for unresolved issues. We message them when we have a solution. If you message too early, they often are so driven to solve problems, they start guessing at fixes and putting customers through a world of hurt. If you think there's confusion now, you have no idea what an inexperienced employee can do with too much information too early in the process. If you want to know what's going on with any systemic (not one-off individual issues), ask me. Happy to tell you all I can anytime.

 

Come on, man!

Think. Speculate. That's what NBR members do best. LOL.

(I had the hint that would break the whole thing open, but had to backspace it out to avoid the ire of the engineers. Hi, guys! Love ya. Mean it.)

 

Okay, sorry--but WOW! The whole secrecy about the root cause has left me feeling irked... You guys have owners and serious potential owners (I WAS going to purchase next Monday, not so sure anymore... ) here and they are telling you to give us the run around about the real issue?

The only reason I would think any company would hold back saying anything is that it would make them look bad... And for this situation, it leaves me feeling that there was a dumb mistake made on this laptop... :/

And anyways... Transparency is always best (Hasn't that been the trend lately!?)

PS: Bill I'm not trying to "go off" at you, I know you are trying your best for all of us here with what you are given

 

+rep for excellent contextual use of "mogwai."

I haven't even seen mockups yet.

No conspiracy. Go back to what I said about multiple problems identified. We are still investigating. Once we think we have covered all our bases through investigation, I'm happy to tell you all about it. I already hinted at the component that is at the center of all root causes (outside of design limitations that we have to engineer around). It's just that we want to make sure there are no issues elsewhere. Like I said, the fact that not all systems are affected makes investigation take a bit longer. We're not going to say, "This is the root cause," when we can't say for certain we've done our part to find them all.

Edit (bolded the part I forgot to reply to):
Of course it's a dumb mistake. There's no way around that. But it's an honest mistake. We'll admit it, we'll take our shots, and we'll fix it. Nobody's perfect, but like I've said before, you won't hear my CEO telling a customer he's holding his phone wrong.

 

I'm *NOT* defending Bill or Dell from withholding info, but while I agree that transparency is best I also strongly beliefe that information published before it's 100% verified accurate then later retracted/updated so that there are multiple cycles of this-is-it-no-this-is-it is worse - all around - for everyone.

For my 2c the only way I can think of them being more transparent in a helpful way would be to itemize the research directions.

But the population here has pretty much done that already.

(but this is just one older/jaded and cynical nerd who'se axiously awaiting the capability of maximizing the capabilities of his really really cool nerd-toy the XPS 15).

 

Alright, fair enough, but I still feels like a kiddies guessing game

I guess I'll just have to start playing!!

You've said it's not the case, Wifi card, software (driver, but it might be OS?) or interference (from any ONE component--does that mean 2 things together==bad?), but you say that affected and unaffected systems are identical... How can that be? (Or are you saying that the Wifi set up is the same in all of them, but other components are not... Ex: Core i5 vs i7, GT 630M vs 640M, mSATA vs no mSATA...)

Of course, I feel the same... But Bill's replies have never been an official company response, and I wouldn't expect for them to be perfect (I think part of this is coming from when Bill said that they were offering an Atheros test card to swap for those in the US and some people got upset because they didn't read properly.... )

 

The reference to "any one component" was about the RAM module on the bottom of the system. I can tell you that was one of the first variables we eliminated. And the reason I said "one" in particular speaks to the other reference regarding design limitations. Put another way, you are obviously going to have a noise level (the N in "SNR") higher than most platforms just based on the size of the chassis. It's not the OS. Same card works fine on Windows in most systems.

The "How can that be?" question is the one I'd suggest the group speculate about. This is fun, right?

I am an official company spokesman for a specific part of the business. Sometimes my replies are official, in that they had to go through a formal review process with execs and the lawyers. I've made official posts before, but I always say "Official Dell response:" or something before I copy/paste that in. I do this for several reasons, depending on the post. It can be because it's a tough message to deliver, or because the issue has risk exposure sensitivity that a professional communicator has to keep in mind. If I ever have anything super official to say, I'll write a blog post on Direct2Dell and link to it. That's about as official as you can get. It's looking more and more like a blog post is coming from me for throttling and wireless solutions.

 

This is true. We live in an age where information can be transmitted and relayed almost instantaneously and I've seen more than my fair share of information that turned out to not be 100% correct and have made the issues worse. If someone would've waited a day or two to sort it out, it would've saved a lot more trouble.

So yes it's hard for people to wait on information that can help alleviate their problem. You always want to be right rather than first and wrong.

I've had to held back my thoughts on the issues I worked through as a software engineer just to make sure it was the root cause and sometimes it's not. If I would've said something it would've costed extra time and energy spent on a solution that wouldn't have worked.

So.. patience is key. At least Bill is saying they are working on it and keep us informed as much as he can. That's a lot better than most companies who just keep silent.

 

So... It's the top RAM module that is causing something? (Also could be the mSATA...)

 

Nope and nope. Re-read. We're talking SNR. What is the #1 part that impacts SNR? Not factors independent of the unit such as distance (attenuation), obstacles like walls, noise from other wireless devices on the same frequency. None of that stuff. It's one part with multiple root causes... so far.

 

Capacitors? CPU? GPU?

Hell, I don't know!

EDIT: OH OH OH! The PSU?!?

 

I may be a little dramatic when I say this, but based on this statement " it's not RF interference from any one component" I have been searching my mind for a possible reason for this issue. what I have come up with so far is the following...

1: The systems that I have noticed that seem to be affected require a higher amount of power do to the added hardware, this may not be significant, but it could be a cause. with the increase in the amount of power needed their is also in an increase in the amount of induced fields. these induced fields could cause interference and essentially jam the wireless signal. Now depending on the amount of the interference, the range could be limited or the signal can become completely jammed.

Now my knowledge base on these particular subject is very limited, so do not think that in any way that this is in any way a set possibility, it could very easily make no sense at all in which it probably does.

 

OK. Let me try again.
Stop thinking about computers. Think about radios, which is essentially what a WiFi card is. How do they get their signal?

That's super interesting, and shows some really good out of box thinking. It's possible we looked at that exact possibility. However, we (Dell, maybe not the public) know that not all systems are affected. One unit with exact same high end or low end components can have the issue while the other doesn't. We saw it on a VP's system for one. He had a high end config with the issue. The engineers took his unit and gave him the exact same config. The second one worked flawlessly.

 

Waves. Radio waves...

 

For this exercise, waves=signal. How does a radio get the radio waves to the box? What component receives these waves?

 

The antennas.....

 

My work here is done.

 

So..... They aren't good enough? Or are they grounding out or something?

Could someone from here get a set of antennas and wrap them around the perimeter of the interior of the case and it would be okay? (Or even just hanging outside the case? (Or is it because of the close proximity to the LCD inverter?)

 

In Italy, the XPS15 has been pulled out from the sale since several days, the reason is not well-known, I hope regard a revision of the product, even if the notice that appears in the official site seems something of definitive, since it is said of "This product is unavailable. Below we have suggested a comparable system (even if below there isn't nothing).
You can read that by yourself because warning is in English:
Novità! Dettagli sul notebook XPS 15: notebook di intrattenimento | Dell Italia

If DELL has taken the decision to suspend the sales for some week, in order to avoid to send a technician to restore every notebook sold, I guess that has made the right thing, but would be better to write a different message, because the suggestion towards an alternative system seems a final statement.

I have checked almost all European DELL site:
Dell.de (Germany)
Dell.co.uk (England)
Dell.fr (France)
Dell.es (Spain)
Dell.ch (Switzerland)

and only in Italy (Dell.it) L521X has been pulled out from the sale.

 

If it happened to be for those reasons it would be consistent with all the systems and replacing a system would show no difference.

Now the antenna could be receiving the signal with no problem, but there is a possibility that the signal is being diverted do to proximity to other hardware, such as an unintentional connection as a result of a faulty thinly insulated wire.. in certain models with variation based on the specific people that put it together assuming the laptops are produced by an assembly line of sorts. just like a radio in your car if you attach a pure copper wire to your antenna and attach it to a separate radio it would interfere with the signal from your car radio.

Also, any loose conductive material that has a current which will vary between systems depending on the person building it and other variables such as heat expansion etc.... would cause minute magnetic fields, and induced frequencies.

 

So I assume Dell's fix will probably be replacing the antennas that are in the hinge?

 

Well again that may not be the solution i don't work for dell, but if that were the case they would need to find the common part that happens to be loose, or the insulation problem, the antennas I think are only connected to the wireless cards and can be removed and replace on their own. It could be as simple as tightening a few screws in the case of a loose component moving slightly and causing EMF induction.

 

I kinda figured it was the antenna and not anything else because the way my upload speed was always consistent. The receive portion of the antenna must be bad. Maybe, a batch of antennas that was used to make these machines are not up to standard. Especially, since it isn't all of them. Also, just wanted to say thanks Bill for all the help.

 

Hi,
I also live in Italy and I am interested in buying the XPS 15, so I tried to contact DELL via the chat, and they said it was not possible for them to know the reason of the pulling out of the XPS 15.
They tried to make me buy it via the Business part of the site (in a quite rude way too, but that's not relevant), but the configurations there aren't the same of the part for the consumers, so I didn't buy it - there is not the i7/8GB RAM/750 GB HDD configuration, in which I am more interested.
I also tried to contact DELL via their Facebook page, but I haven't received an answer yet.

 

Antennas?!?! Guys at Dell, did you pull an Apple just to be funny?
Antennagate all over again. Please tell us that we're holding it wrong. PLEASE!

But seriously good job acknowledging the problems without a lawsuit and a settlement unlike that fruit company.

Is it the antenna coupled with the gorilla glass and aluminum body causing problems in receiving signal...?

 

So guys, those of you with the A06 BIOS. Can you play a game such as BF3 with the settings you would normally, and not have the GPU OR the CPU throttle at all?

 

knew it was antenna issues when I told the on site tech he looked at me like I was dumb...in the wifi thread it was stated that the antenna out side of the laptop made the speeds good meaning that an internal component is blocking the radio wavessssssssssssssssssssss...I called it "antenna block" lol...

 

Bill,
Can you remind Lorna to check her PM's please. I've PM'd her, tweeted to @DellCares, and msg'd the Facebook account but haven't received a response from any of them.

 

Yea, hopefully it will be rolled out ASAP, which leaves me with one more thing for Bill: I'm still considering the purchase for early next week and it obviously won't have the fix yet, but what would be the max time I'd be waiting for it? (I'm hoping a month max, a week minimum?)

It will be too difficult to schedule for the fix when school starts up again in September, but I don't really want to wait until factory cut-in to get it!!

 

@BILL:

I purchased this laptop for Enterprise/Corporate use via our Dell Premier site. This is for a State entity and we are required to tag (inventory) all new equipment within about a month of time. My question is: Will the fix be field serviceable with parts (i.e. replacing antennae, the LCD lid, cables, etc) or will it be system replacement?

Reason I ask is it is a royal pain to swap out equipment after its been tagged into inventory so I need to find out if I should hold the wolves at bay or if I can have them tag it and wait for replacement parts. I love the laptop and want to keep it but this is the biggest concern at the moment! Thanks much for any feedback.

 

It's probably just to spite you because Dell has it out for you and your incessant complaining on NBR.

Conspiracy Theooorryyyyyyyyy!!!!!!!!!!!!

 

Way off base here, buddy. Hopefully you already realized that first of all, they have zero obligation to tell you what their engineers have been up to. Secondly, you should respect their policy because it means that they're going to do their damnedest to make sure that they really really really understand the root cause of the failure before going out and declaring that the issue is x,y,z.

Some of you on NBR are so spoiled. This feedback loop we have via Bill is something special in the consumer electronics industry. We here are able to send and receive data to the product engineering teams at dell with less than 24 hour lag...I for one think it's amazing, and I am 1000x grateful that we have this communications venue with Dell. The fact that we have been given enough information to deduce what the issue is and have been reassured that there will be a universal fix available is more than you'd get from competitors.

I will say that we as consumers shouldn't be dealing with a systematic design flaw like this in the first place, BUT because every other design aspect of this laptop is so alluring, we are all still here waiting on this last issue to be fixed. If there was a better product out there, then we wouldn't be here.

 

I theorize insufficient shielding on EM emissive components - CPU - clock - drives - or something similar.


Sent from my brain using neurons fueled by glucose

 

I have to admit that I have thinked same thing, also because my complains have invided the Italian forum LoL

Inviato dal mio GT-I9100 con Tapatalk 2

 

Actually they do have an obligation to keep me posted. I waited around thinking this could be a simple driver/software fix until I went past the return period (That's not only their fault, it's my fault for being foolish enough to have faith in them). Now, it will be weeks or months before there's any fix available and all the while, they knew it was hardware.

Second, you're wrong about their "policy" meaning they're "doing their damnedest" to make sure they understand the problem. More likely, it's upper management giving the order to keep silent so as not to cause a rush of refunds and bad publicity for their new product. I've worked for a hardware company and that's how it goes.

Third, when I did call Dell for a return, the CS rep treated me like a complete idiot and claimed "if it's a design flaw then Dell would recall the product" (see Dell case number: 861732180). So now that we know it's a design flaw, where's the recall, Dell?

 

1. I think that you chose to give them the chance to fix it, you could have returned it at any time if you were not satisfied with its performance at the time of purchase.
2. I do work for a hardware company involved in the CED industry and I know how it goes, too. RF problems with multiple potential root causes of failures that affect some systems but not others is a huge challenge to tackle--even for a "team" of seasoned RF engineers. I'm not sure what you might have done at your hardware company, and I'm not sure where you get the idea that your logic of applying your prior company's experience to Dell is sound. Perhaps it's just simple pessimism.
3. That's because they don't know about this issue largely because Dell's product engineering team is still working on root cause and a solution. Perhaps they could at least notify the entry level support that there is an issue...I might agree with you there.

Bill claim it does not affect all systems, but I'm very skeptical on that.

The fact that Bill loosely led us on a journey of speculating what the root cause probably is without directly telling us is better than you would get from most laptop manufacturers, if not all.

AGAIN, we shouldn't be dealing with the issue to begin with; however, I am pleased with the communications and steps taken thus far as explained by Bill.

 

Bill - do you guys maintain a list of "everyone"?

Or a mere mention of this forum thread will automatically guarantee the fix or no questions asked return for those out of the 21 days time frame?

Asking, because I do have a $2600 paperweight (without WiFi it is to me as an IT consultant) and I also got the free return labels sent by Dell if I'd like to return.
However - if we have a definitive answer and a guaranteed fix past the normal 21 days (even if I don't PM Lorna), I'll wait. All other issues either non existent on my XPS (perfect screen, no banding/screen-door effect ) or software fixed/fixable (BIOS A06 - throttling). Love it - if not for the WiFi.
Thanks,
Mike

 

You're painfully beginning to sound like an Apple apologist. Remember "You're holding it wrong"? A customer has every right to question, dislike, become fed up and return a sub-standard product when the company that sold it to them refuses to come clean with an issue.

And Dell is well-aware of a hardware fault in the XPS 15 and possibly the 14. The fact that they put the product up for sale without fully testing the device is negligence. The fact that they haven't pulled it after it was brought to their attention is dereliction. It doesn't matter if it only affects "some" systems; if they don't know all the causes, they don't know enough about the problem and therefore need to stop selling any systems or risk having to inconveniently bombard every customer with an on-site visit from a local tech. Apple can get away with that kind of arrogance because their customers will eat up whatever Cupertino spits out. Dell is not in the lead in its market, and this brazen attitude will not do any favors for their consumer appeal. Stop apologizing for them. In fact, I have yet to hear an apology FROM them... and yes, I own an XPS 15.

 

Love checking up on the Owner's Lounge and seeing arguments about Dell policy....

Come on guys.

 

Sometimes it's more like a fight club than a lounge

 

Originally Posted by Dell-Bill_B

Bottom line: we'll fix it, and everyone will have the fix available.
"Bill - do you guys maintain a list of "everyone"?

Or a mere mention of this forum thread will automatically guarantee the fix or no questions asked return for those out of the 21 days time frame?

Asking, because I do have a $2600 paperweight (without WiFi it is to me as an IT consultant) and I also got the free return labels sent by Dell if I'd like to return.
However - if we have a definitive answer and a guaranteed fix past the normal 21 days (even if I don't PM Lorna), I'll wait. All other issues either non existent on my XPS (perfect screen, no banding/screen-door effect ) or software fixed/fixable (BIOS A06 - throttling). Love it - if not for the WiFi.
Thanks,
Mike "



- Yea I'm kind of wondering the same thing myself. If so who do we need to contact at dell to report this problem? As I have called a few times and u get different answeres depending who u get on the phone from dell.

 

Hello, I just installed the Windows 8 Professional on my computer (RTM) of course only certain people can get this at the moment however it would "NOT" let you install the Dell or Intel Drivers. It already had it installed including the Bluetooth.

GUESS WHAT? My downloads got 24.99 and 6.73 for my uploads. Thankfully, I feel 100% assured now this is a DRIVER issue (NOT) a hardware issue! All I can tell you is it is using the Driver from 12/5/2011 version 14.8.8.75


PROOF!