XPS 15 (L521X) Owner's Lounge

Ouch! Really hope that updates will fix this thing, I remember someone said it was inaudible!

Maybe you put it in AHCI mode in the BIOS? It should be in IRS mode to work as a cache unit


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Talking to Dell Tech support at the moment and they have not heard any information on the throttling issue.

 

This is weird... How can be possible that they didn't do such a simple test before launch?

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They won't be allowed to admit it. The same thing happened with the fan ramping on L502/501X. We need to wait for Bill to post again, I got a feeling his hands full with this issue and is waiting for some solid information from the engineers.

 

That's what I'm hoping for as well, some sort of BIOS update or software update which will fix it.

 

I just ran Star Wars The Old Republic on medium settings on 1920x1080 on medium settings and it is throttling for me, holding steady at 1.2ghz. Ran fine for 2 minutes at 2.8ghz then went straight to 1.2ghz

 

As someone who doesn't own one, I don't think you're in a position to question someone who does how theirs performs.

Several other people have said they have no/minimal issues, but you only seem to accept (and amplify) those who do. Again, I'm experiencing the throttling occasionally, but it seems like the people who are crying the loudest about it are people who don't own one and aren't experiencing it.

If the problem truly is software, and specifically the NVIDIA drivers it is 100% possible that some applications (regardless of demand) will have no issues and others will.

 

Absolutely yes!

 

Dell employees are always welcome on the forum, we appreciating your comment but will like to see some action in solving the problem.

 

Jako, I'm not a Dell Employee but I do own an L521x.

I and others are finding the quantitative and qualitative contributions in the owner's lounge thread by folks who don't own one irritating at best, deceptive at worst.

Complaining about a system you don't own and taking other people's experiences and making them your own (as several folks in this and the other threads have done) is not conducive to the resolution and is added noise for the folks at Dell who are working the issue and for the owners who are trying to get information.

 

@earlyflash

No, high performance would have been the cause in my hypothesis.
Another solution would be to change it to power saver momentarily, I do that regularly on my l502x. It forces the cpu to downclock and thus the noise instantly disappears.

 

My L521X has arrived. As promised the 3DMark 11 score is 1962 stock.

NVIDIA GeForce GT 640M video card benchmark result - Intel Core i7-3612QM Processor,Dell Inc. 0880F2 score: P1962 3DMarks

Fairly comparable to the envy 15 .

 

Mine was P1985, good to see they are very close.

 

Ok just finished using the Spyder 4

sRGB 82%
NTSC 60%
aRGB 62%

Here is the chart and the values, I have no idea what it all means

 

P1978 here, but with a message that my graphics driver is not approved.

 

Got that as well I'm assuming it's because the card is new. Did yours really suffer with the CPU like we've all been reporting?

 

pretty good I say, better than the IPS display on Sony VIAO except for the white level

do you have the values before calibration?

Also how did you manage to use the spyder4? I thought that it didn't work with USB 3.0?

 

Here is my review. I'm sure you won't like it, but it's the truth.

Dell XPS 15: End of an Era

Today I opened the laptop I have been eagerly waiting over two weeks for, a $1,700 Dell XPS 15 with i7 and 640M. The first thing I did after setting up my anti-virus and browser was test the thermals using several tools. The first test: Intel Burn Test and Furmark at the same time. Within a minute the CPU reached 100C and the computer shut down. An IBT test alone kept the CPU around 90C with Turbo Boost staying on the whole time. Predictable results so far given the form factor of this laptop. However, the next thing I did was run Furmark by itself, with the CPU at 0% (fully idle). The GPU reached around 85C, again predictable, but the CPU was nearing 95C -- just five degrees below the shutdown point. This is with an idle CPU; ambient temps were 27C the whole time, and I had the laptop propped on top of a large book to keep the vents unblocked. The last test I did was a real-world simulation test -- a scenario simulating a computer game with intensive graphics and high CPU usage. I downloaded the CUDA Toolkit and ran the N-body simulation with 60,000 bodies (which results in a frame rate of around 2.3 and 100% GPU usage). At the same time, I ran a trial-division factorization program with 8 threads on a 25-digit number (long enough so that the program would run for a few hours) with ThrottleStop set to 2.1 GHz. Ten minutes later I checked the temps and the CPU seemed to have stabilized around 95C with the GPU near 80C -- not good but technically not critical. However, I noticed that the CPU had throttled to 1.2 GHz. From previous reading I realized that I needed to disable BD PROCHOT. Ten seconds after disabling it, the CPU reached 100C and the computer shut down. I will be returning my Dell XPS tomorrow, and I am sad to report that unless something changes with the brand, this is the last Dell I will ever buy.

Verdict: The throttling issue was likely added on purpose by Dell so intense games wouldn't cause the processor to reach critical thresholds. The issue is real -- and it cannot be fixed in software. It is apparent that the throttling is caused by heat from the GPU reaching the CPU instead of totally going to the fan. For a computer that costs as much as many high-end gaming laptops, it does a very poor job. Steer clear of this PC at all costs.

0 stars (out of 5).

 

The pre calibration values are on the chart except gamut. I didn't measure before. I'm sorry.

It worked fine in the USB 3.0 port. I have had problems with it on my old Vostro 3350 and my desktop's 3.0 ports, but they weren't native intel ports.

 

this is very unfortunate, is the CPU fan spinning at all. how the hell did this product pass quality inspection. You would think that Dell wouldn't release such a premium product at it's current state.
can someone run a benchmark with the bottom panel open, if the components still reaches that kind of temperature we might have a hardware error, such as fans not working or bad thermal conduction

 

You'd think the beta testers would have noticed such a problem.

I'm going to test some games as soon as they download.

 

I have a question... if I were to return this product is it possible for Dell to charge a restocking fee.
also I assume that I will be paying for the shipping fee?

 

I am also returning mine, they better not charge a restocking fee especially after advertising 21 day no risk returns.

 

They don't refund shipping. If they feel its not defective you could be charged a restocking fee. Its in their return policy listed on their site.

 

yeah found it

this has to be some kind of defect. imma be so mad if they charge 10% on a 1700 laptop

 

They charge up to 15%. I would agree you may have an argument for a defect

 

I didn't have problem playing Skyrim at High settings, 1920x1080. It was very smooth, and fan noise was moderate (it was highest on running WEI). But can someone tell me how do I measure the fps of playing games?

and how do I check whether I have the CPU throttling issue? what should I install/run?

 

Yes and no -- I haven't been able to make it consistently happen when editing/converting videos in Adobe Premiere, manipulating in Photoshop or querying huge Access dbs. When it does happen, it's very brief and short-lived. I honestly don't own any of the games that everyone else is playing.

I did run Throttlestop, though I'm not quite sure how to interpret everything.

The first run, I hit a max of 92c with the CPU and 72c with the GPU and didn't have any throttling. The second run, I hit 95c with the CPU and 72c with the GPU and it started throttling about 75% through the run. What's odd is the temps peaked, then cooled off by about 10c before it began throttling. It also stayed at the peak temperature for several minutes before it cooled and then started throttling. The third run was similar to the second run, but the throttling began about 1/2 way through.

I'm willing to re-run and send the log files to anyone that can step me through the setup and testing.

 

It wasn't noisy at all to me during idle. It was almost silent unless you put your ears near the keyboard to listen to it. And no, I didn't have any other noise in the environment. For the record, mine is the i7/640m version.

 

A stock computer should never reach 95C with totally normal use. On my machine the thermal sensors were several seconds ahead of the frequency sensors in reporting, so yes the cooling-before-throttling is to be expected, it is merely lag in the sensors.

Read my review on page 32... the entire L521X line is defective since the GPU obviously is piping heat INTO the CPU in some way... an idle CPU shouldn't be approaching 95C when the Furmarked GPU is only reaching 85C.

 

I'm struggling with calling Throttlestop a normal use. Making a processor and GPU run at 100% capacity for 10 minutes straight seems somewhat extreme. I don't encounter that level of resource usage for that period of time when converting audio/video or doing extensive database analytics. Perhaps that's why I'm not as bothered as everyone else.

I do think you guys are premature in getting worked up over restocking fees. If you go into the conversation worked up, you are less likely to get what you want and more likely to say something you'll regret. Dell may even provide an agreeable incentive to work with you until they get it resolved. Either way if you approach them calm and rationally they're more likely to respond in an agreeable manner.

Also keep in mind that there are Dell folks here on the forum with a proven track record of helping out -- provided those bridges haven't been burned.

 

guys,

to change topic for a second is anyone else having a weird response when typing using "quotation marks"? When I press the key they don't show up. It is only after I have continued to type that they then decide to show up? Never experienced this before and have had windows 7 computers before.

Also on the temperature issues i don't game so doesn't bother me but surely wait for a response from Bill before we all go crazy. I would think you would get a response in the next 24 hours and then you can see what you think.

 

Guys,

received mine yesterday and look / feel are really great and I love it from this perspective.

However, there are actually 2 issues that prevent me from being a happy little bunny and are killing the whole experience:

a) WLAN speed is rediculous slow. Getting max. 20 MBit via Speedtest on a 50 MBit line whereas my Latitude 6320 sitting right next to the XPS is hitting 49 MBit. Also if I copy something from my NAS max. transfer rate is around 2.5 MByte/sec whereas the Lati get's around 11 MByte/sec.
This seems to be the issue that German c't reported and Dell said they will provide a driver/BIOS update (updated everything to latest versions on Dell site so not solved for now)

b) the fan - it runs very silent with no load and I would even say it is not very loud on load.
BUT - there is a very annoying whir / buzz (not sure if it's the right English word) at a high frequency, and that is really something unacceptable. It sounds like some tape or plastic is touching the fan as soon as it starts to rotate (if you know what I mean).
Anyone else having the same?

I belive for b) I will call tech support today and have someone come over. Cannot believe this is working as designed...

 

The Y580 can run an OVERCLOCKED (almost +100 mhz) 660m Furmark and non-turbo 100% 3610qm IBT at the same time with temps of both components staying around 80C. For a much more expensive computer whose only improvement over the Y580 is its thinness (even the weight is the same) to be thermocrashing on stock speeds with only a 640m and a much more efficient 3612qm is entirely unacceptable, if only because the option of buying that computer instead of the Dell is available... for me this is especially important because I sometimes like to program for the GPU, and to have a heterogeneous program crash in mere minutes would be very detrimental to my development tasks. Furthermore, a fully idle 0% CPU having a temp of almost 95C is never a good thing, even if Furmark IS being run at the same time.

 

I am interested to test my own WLAN speed when I get back. I didn't experience that whirring sound you get. At most it was a loud fan noise, no weird sounds...

 

called tech support now, they gonna replace the fan and WLAN card (guy was telling me to reinstall Windows which I denied doing...).
Will keep you posted if that is solving the prob, if not I will return the laptop.
I'd regret this but for this amount of bucks I expect better quality...

 

have you changed the power settings for the wireless adapter to maximum performance for both plugged in and battery. I find this makes quite a difference. I am sitting near my router atm (within a couple of metres) and speed is 144 Mpbs

 

Gosh, if only I would have found this thread a little sooner...
I decided to get the XPS 15 since my old Acer died after 3.5 years of great service and a few friends strongly suggested me to go for Dell because of the build quality and for the great customer service (no, Apple is not an option ).

Hopefully they will release some sort of fix very soon as here in the UK I only have a 7 days cooling off period (I still have some time left, tho, as my xps is still listed as "in production")...

 

Awesome! Thx

 

I'd wait till you get the unit, you have 21 days anyway and may find the throttling to not be as bad as some people are saying for your usage, and while the fan is obviously faulty on other units, it isn't on mine, only spinning up to audible levels once in a blue moon during normal use. When Playing Civ V it was quite loud, but given the thermal issues the laptop has that is unsurprising.

It will always be the case that those who are having problems will cry the loudest, whilst those not will remain quiet as they have no need to come and complain.

TL;DR

Let it get delivered, see how it goes for you.

 

Have you noticed the cpu was on 1,2ghz in the result summary from 3dmark you posted?

 

Changing the Wlan card won't help much if other report the same issue

Looks like I guessed perfectly right after checking the build of the cooling system. But I am not happy about that as I would have preferred to be proven wrong:-(
I wonder how this is possible. I expected this situation after visually checking the system and at least in tests it would have been easy to find the design issue.

If the fan is touching anything it will not be able to reach its full speed. That would exactly create such buzzing sound and prevent any louder/faster rotation.

 

Not if they send them the base i5 model (clever choice Dell)

 

Yep, changed the power settings and the odd thing is that it connects with 300 MBit but download rate is still slow compared to my work Latitude. Also, if I walk away from the router a few meters, it drops even more significantly to below 1 MBit/sec for download in Speedtest whereas with the Lati at the same position I get 45 MBit/sec.

 

Hi mate,

Is that a Blu-Ray writer? If so, can you provide the make/model number please? Thank you

 

I saw some of you added or changed the SSD drive questions on this

1) Do you need to do a lot of bios stuff to get it booting from this drive - i hear that reading is faster from SSD but writing is slower - so I assume that reinstall of windows onto the new SSD is the way to go - how easy will that be OOTB ?

2) How easy and I assume this invalidates the warranty is this job. I have changed hard drives before in a tower and memory in a laptop.

I will probably get this machine and just cant decide on which spec - I will casually game so wonder if the i7 is needed at all. Keen to know how this GPU is with gaming I was goign to get the 14 inch but the gaming GPU is way below the CPU power I read and it didn't perform.

3) Has anyone tried to use it outside ? How is the reflection.

4) What is this throttling about ? In laymans terms....should we all be worried or is this a software fix.

5) upgrade to 16GB memory - how likely hard is this going to be.
Thanks

 

just tested...played Skyrim at 1920x1080 at high quality, and FRAPS recorded around 60 (indoors) to 35 (outdoors). Also, fan did kick in again but not too noisy. I would say it's moderate (I had worse). I will recheck again later when I have time to really play it.

Also, reran WEI and fan did not spin up at all. Was quiet.

Now, how do I check whether my CPU throttles under load? (without risking my hardware?)

BTW, probably ignorance is bliss haha...I didn't experience any problems at all playing games and am very happy with the performance. Was really smooth with occasional fan kicking in, but gaming is a guaranteed situation where fan will kick in.

On playing Skyrim, battery lasted 3 hours.

 

1) I don't have it, so I can't say for sure, but I think it will be pretty easy

2) It does not invalidate your warranty to open the laptop and change parts (but obviously Dell won't answer for your new SSD). It's not difficult, 10 screws to take away more or less

3) As 1) I can't say, but I've read all the thread and I can't remember someone writing about outdoor usage yet

4) It seems that many users experienced that while playing some games (also not much demanding games) after few minutes the CPU drops to 1.2 GHz, which makes FPS drop too. Many other users instead didn't experience this, so we're waiting for an official feedback from Dell's technicians (hopefully a driver/BIOS update would fix it, but we don't know)

5) There are 2 RAM slots: 1 over the motherboard and 1 under it. So one is immediately accessible right after removing the bottom cover, while for the other one you'll have to work a bit more (remove also heat pipe and fan). In order to plug in 16GB RAM you'll have to reach both slots, but Dell always release full detailed teardown guides, so you'll be able to do it without problems if you follow them carefully

What do you mean with indoors and outdoor? You played outdoor (so maybe higher environment temperature) or do you mean outdoor scenes in the game?

If you don't want to risk your hardware, I suggest you don't run tests like Prime95 or Furmark; just run software you may need during your normal usage, like audio/video encoding, games, scientific calculations, photo/video editing, audio/video conversion, or whatever similar. In the meantime run Hwinfo64 to check your CPU's frequency

Your experience cheers me up a bit

 

no, it's a DVD writer but Blu Ray read only - MATA DVDRWBD UJ167 according to device manager

 

Ok, I just ran Passmark Performance Test 7.0

Scores
CPU -- 8018.6
HD4000 -- 2D 361.8 3D 492.8
GT640M -- 2D 392.0 3D 881.8 (Same Ballpark as the old GTX285M)
Memory -- 1862
Disk Mark -- (64 GB mSata PM830) 2420.7
Disk Mark -- (256 GB 7mm PM830) 3916.9 (Bill, this is why I think using the mSata as a cache for a real SSD wont' help either way. Look at the difference!)


Notes:

The fan did get quite loud during these tests, but not loud enough it'd bother me. If I was listening to a game or wearing headphone I wouldn't notice.

I'm now running the burn in test. I'll edit this post with those results and the csv having the hwinfo logged if anyones interested (let me know)


EDIT:

Ok Burn in tests complete. It looks like the CPU throttles down when it hits 95C, then after it cools off it resumes. The GPU also throttles more frequently. Here are the CSV Spreadsheets included. 1. Passmark Performance Test using HD4000, 2. Passmark Performance Test using GT640M, 3. Passmark Burn in tests, GPU and CPU set to 100%, Ram, Video, etc set to 50%, 4. Passmark Burn in test GPU and CPU set to 100%.

What do you guys think? I doubt there are many games that will run GPU and CPU at 100% for 15 minutes. It could be an issue for people who use graphical software, but I really don't think such people should be using Kepler anyway, Fermi and even more so AMD still rules that area as far as I'm concerned

Notes about tests, even at max temps, the fan wasn't obnoxiously loud. Also the base of the machine was tolerable to touch, and the top was not hot at all. Compared to my D430 which burnt my legs using Chrome, this machine is quite cool.