*** XPS 15 7590 Owners Lounge ***

Thank you! I will do my best to continue. I will add SSD temps to my HWinfo temp logs

 

If you look at the image the reddit user posted the CPU is cooking at 100°C (how could it be different, user has an i9):

dGPU mostly clocking into shutdown mode because of this.

The digusting thing is, that the dGPU doesnt slow down much and stays at 1395MHz even with 80°C though, if the CPU isnt cooking at 100°C, compared to the total shutdown mode of the 9570 after 75°C clocking into 300-800MHz. I am sure Dell will cripple it more and more after reviews are done.

The 7590 is totally usable for gaming though after 75°C dGPU because of this, compared to the 9570 which is a potato in shutdown mode. 9570 owners should try to get a money back and get the 7590 if it stays like this.

 

Got mine today.
i5. Stepping is 10 ("A"), so it does not have the latest mitigation HW. Some should have stepping 12 ("C") which has the same mitigation HW as Whiskey Lake CPUs. Upgraded to Corsair 32GB 2666 CL18. Chose CL18 since it's marginally cheaper and known to work with the outgoing laptop.256GB SSD is Toshiba.

EDIT: Original RAM is 8GB 2666 CL19/20 (from the Micron spec sheet).

Chose the Nvidia GPU, so the heatsink isn't the same as the IGP version.

FHD display is bright, and outside of one corner (lower left - pressure), it seems to have decent uniformity.

Questions I had: Interim answers

• S3 sleep functionality. Maybe Dell and MSFT finally get it right. Maybe my user title is 100% apt. Haven't checked yet.
  
• Audio cracking (happened on my old E5450, back then I thought it was normal, since my old Vaio S13 did it too). So far, nothing odd. But I may currently have somewhat low standards for audio.
• actual battery life when used from 80% to 20% capacity. Nothing yet. Came with 9% wear. Working to see if that clears up within 2-3 cycles.
• The keyboard ergonomics. Clustering the fn keygroups was a good idea from Lenovo. Their smart fn-alt positioning was a very good idea, too (all important functions, like volume and screen brightness, can be easily accessed with one hand pressing the fn key and the appropriate function key). The XPS15 has none of that. Screen brightness key combo is still too far for my hand to span.
  
• Matte effectiveness. I've noticed on an XPS 9343, the matte coating is much lighter than my E5450. It may not be as effective. Definitely like the XPS 9343 lightweight matte.
• Fan noise? Fan is much louder and aggressive than any laptop I've had before. My E485 has an aggressive fan, but it's quiet. My X1C6 has a lazy fan, but it's on the nosier side (generalizations here). It is still in it's initial setup phase, however, so it may subside later. Or it might not.
• Throttling after 30min. On my old E5450, the system would perform okay for about 10 minutes while gaming (Starcraft 2 coop), then really throttle down. The system would not recover until after a long period of idle activity. Haven't tried yet. Everything is still downloading. With "Nvidia Whisper Mode" set to 60fps, there doesn't seem to be game throttling in Starcraft 2 Coop at roughly one tick below max settings. Waiting to see if Apex Legends is so lucky. VRM temps in the game are below 70C, but that isn't really reflective of a heavy gaming load.
• Does the 4 core version also get the "new" mobo layout and VRM heatsinks? I guess I'll find out. VRM heatsink for the GPU is still there. CPU is lacking one phase compared to the 6 core and 8 core setups. I believe the CPU doesn't have any heatsink over the VRMs in any setup. EDIT: I am wrong on the last bit. The service manual seems to have a VRM heatsink for the CPU side, too. I assume 6/8 core setups have it.

 

Does anyone know what the heat sink / fan setup looks like in the iGPU version?

 

Based on earlier manuals and guesses from me, the iGPU version has a different heatsink than the rest. Still dual fan, dual heatpipe, but the CPU is a bit more "centrally" located and given the i5+dGPU doesn't have CPU VRM heatsink, I'd bet on the iGPU version not having it either. I'd also bet on a 2+1 phase setup. This would be the same CPU power phases as the i5 + dGPU that I have.

However, this is simply a guess, and not a particularly educated one at that.



Unrelated, but I finally got my initial feedback for Modern Standby. I still had Hibernate set at 30min (default) for items 14 & 15.

I replaced the IGP driver, white required the shutdown at item 35. I'll keep monitoring to see if Modern Standby will be a mess. If so, the 32GB of RAM in this machine may be a hinderance for hibernation (IMO). At item 25, there is a 10% loss over 7 hours, 13 minutes. This is roughly inline to what my Lenovo ThinkPad X1C6 was doing, during the weeks Modern Standby actually worked. Of course, when it didn't work, it would drain the battery 30%+ and shutdown or hibernate (mostly shutdown, causing a minor loss of work, though I saved diligently).



Also have a batch file (which I run via a shortcut that automatically runs it in admin mode - I've so far found no other way to easily elevate a batch file to admin rights.


Anyone can modify the initial directory to something more convenient for themselves.

Code:

CD C:\
powercfg sleepstudy
powercfg energy
@pause

Further unrelated. The XPS 15 7590 keyboard is somewhat fine, in my opinion. Tactile (more than the XPS 15 9560/9570 demos they had at the university bookstore) though somewhat short in the travel. Doesn't feel quite as shallow as the 9370 demo they had, though I may just be imagining things. They probably have identical travel in reality, just slightly different tactile feel the 7590 is still more clicky, but I don't know if that wears off after a while. If it wears off, then it will probably feel just like the 9370 demo on campus. Keys sometimes feel like they are tilting a bit to the side when typing, but it's probably just in my head (I am coming from the slightly convex keys of the Thinkpad lineup to the flattop keys of this laptop).

I'm glad the insert & PrtScr keys are not function keys, like some modern Dells have regressed to, but I am still somewhat missing the dedicated PgUp and PgDwn keys. Strange, since my Latitude E5450 has them, the Thinkpads have them, and so does the current XPS 13.

Unobtrusive mode is still present, though I normally just use lockscreen, rather than blanking my laptop display/lights. I remember liking this feature a lot, in the early years of my old E5450.

 

https://www.reddit.com/r/Dell/comments/cbmoam/gpu_problems_xps_15_7590/

https://www.reddit.com/r/Dell/comments/cdgnbg/extremely_low_fps_while_gaming_on_xps_15_7590/

https://www.reddit.com/r/Dell/comments/cdkmdd/are_these_framerates_normal/

Pray for these poor souls.

 

Why should they be so uppset? Already stated long time ago that the XPS models ain't for Gaming!


But Why put the XPS under the Gaming brand umbrella? https://hothardware.com/news/alienware-dell-frank-azor-leaving-for-amd-gaming

 

What is the best available discount on a new xps 15 7590 OLED?

Coming from an xps 15 9550 as I patiently waited out the 9560 and 9570 for this display.

Sent from my SM-G975U1 using Tapatalk

 

Yeah, I have been cheating by using Nvidia Whisper Mode. Paid for a GTX1650. Throttled to ~800Mhz to avoid more throttling, lol.

Does what I want, either way.

 

https://www.reddit.com/r/Dell/comments/cdq5wr/how_i_stopped_my_xps_15_7590_gpu_from_throttling/

 

Let us know if you purchase the oled version and ket us know how it performs

 

If anyone manages to get their hands on the iGPU-only configuration, I'd be very grateful to hear your impressions (especially on CPU temps and performance/fan noise), and ideally to see photographs of the internals.

 

I'd have to wonder if anyone who buys an IGP-only version would be on here. It's a rather expensive laptop for a quad core CPU and no dGPU. It is also a rather heavy laptop for IGP-only purposes, even if it does have the advantage of a 97Whr (maybe 87Whr in reality, lol) battery.

I suspect the arrival of quad core U series chips has taken a lot out of the enthusiast market for a Quad core, IGP-only H series laptop.

 

Everything you say is true, but any iGPU-only machine that comes with a combination of a high quality screen (IPS, matte, 100% srgb, slim bezel) that's larger than 13", a good keyboard, strong battery life, a good selection of I/O ports (including TB 3), and non-soldered components (besides CPU) is expensive. The iGPU-only Thinkpad Carbon Gen 2, for instance, comes with a U-series CPU and checks all the boxes I mentioned, except its RAM is soldered--and it costs more than the iGPU-only XPS 15. The iGPU-only Asus Zenbooks are cheaper, but they have worse port selection and soldered RAM. Not all of these boxes are necessary for everyone, but there's certainly an audience of people looking for a high-quality machine that don't need a dGPU and may pick up the lowest configuration of the XPS 15.

 

I agree, there are many good aspects of this laptop outside of dGPU power, however, I was curious if that specific audience would end up on this forum. Even on the Dell subreddit, many (most?) of the XPS 15 7590 owners/intenders seem to be aiming for at least i7 + OLED. At least the ones willing to talk about it.

I just think the person who wants the i5 IGP configuration would be less likely to show up on a forum. I know the models have to sell. My school campus only sells that configuration (of the 9560 and 9570 generations), and they seem to move some number of units, at least enough to keep that SKU on their limited shelf-space. I hope somebody from that demographic shows up with information, experiences, and photos to share.

 

anyone tried 64gb or more on this thing? i recalled seeing specs before release stating that it can go up to 64gb.

I have the OLED version i9 and i'm not sure if this is how the screen behaves but it is normal if 100% brightness but there are dark spots at 50% like in a gray background a portion of the screen on the right is darker like bulbs shining from bottom of screen but missing that spot lol.

 

I don't think that's normal

 

I just ordered this laptop to replace my XPS 13 9370. Does the 7590 come with a usb-c charger or barrel plug?

 

At least in the US, barrel plug. I have not heard of Dell providing an USB-C charger for any XPS 15 outside of the 9575 2in1.

USB-C charging works, at least with a 65W USB-C Lenovo charger. The BIOS and Dell Power Manager both complain about it, but both note the 65W USB-C charger will still charge the laptop. I'll try the 45W and get back later.


EDIT: USB-C charging with a Lenovo 45W USB-C charger works.

Of note: when charging with either the 130W barrel plug or the 65W USB-C charger, the battery charges at a rate of ~44W (I did not enable Expresscharge, and never will - I assume Expresscharge, given the specs, will charge at a rate just below 80W). With the 45W USB-C charger, it's about 30W so far.

EDIT2: I also have a Lenovo Thunderbolt 3 Graphics dock, though I am unwilling to try it without significant reason. It should have 100W PD, but I've never seen anything confirming this. Given how much of a mess that TB3 dock was with my Thinkpad X1C6 (it may have also been the X1C6's fault, I don't know), I'll need good cause to risk it again.

 

I've found the XPS 15 works better with TB3 docks than the ThinkPad series. My X1 and P1 were both PITAs.

 

https://www.reddit.com/r/Dell/comments/cf4pzb/xps_15_7590_oledi79750hgtx_1650_live_review_have/

My review is live ya'll, running benches now. Please send me your questions (sorry I don't have access to FHD or UHD IGZO)

 

I was on the fence about getting the x1 extreme gen2 over the 7590 but I’m thinking I made the right choice with the Dell.

I think I’m mostly torn between the keyboards between the Dell and Lenovo. I don’t believe the x1 extreme has exactly the same keyboard as my work P50. Any thoughts between the x1 extreme and the 7590?

 

From your review... https://www.ultrabookreview.com/291...650-live-review-have-the-problems-been-fixed/

<While the Fire Strike test showed a solid score that champed the GTX 1050Ti Max-Q, running the stress test reveals something seriously wrong with the 7590’s ability to sustain GPU performance. HWiNFO charts reveal a frequent dropping of the GPU to a core clock of only 300 MHz that likely contributes to this poor score.> What with the crippled Cpu score?

What happened in 3DMark Firestrike benchmark? The Physics score is even below what to expect from an +6 years old 4 core Haswell mobile i7-4700Hq from the old days

 

Awesome article Eason.

For those who don't know, Eason has owned a lot of these XPS laptops and is a frequent poster here. He knows the XPS inside out and I find his reviews mirror my experience. In particular, the real-world strengths and weaknesses of the XPS are well documented in clear English.

Mandatory read for anyone considering the XPS laptop.

 

@ Papusan I smell lots of bios "thermal improvements" incoming in the next updates by Dell. This will be a feast. It is obvious at this point, the 7590 is totally a disaster with thermals, the 8 core i9 must be a total joke.

Love how all the people are celebrating this as a "fix" https://www.reddit.com/r/Dell/comments/cdq5wr/how_i_stopped_my_xps_15_7590_gpu_from_throttling/ where this is just the ordinary undervolt of dGPU, he even messed it totally up with a flat 0.7v for each clock, which wont be stable.

 

The Dreadful graphics max temp limit is already implemented for this refreshed model. Next goal for crippling has to be the Processor. Or will they lower GPU throttling temp further before they touch the processors power settings in later firmware updates?

This is the thread for the refreshed XPS_15_7590. My thread should be mandatory reading for all...
How Dell cripple performance explained by...

 

Any thoughts on this laptop vs the Lenovo X1 Extreme?

 

Yeah, I am back to using Throttlestop. Thought I wouldn't have to again, after last using it in my Alienware M11x, lol. At least it works consistently and stably now.

i5 9300H + GTX1650.

It really does seem like the CPU isn't being throttled correctly. I can see it from the HWINFO (and XTU) long term power limit. It stays for a while at 56W, then suddenly cuts very low (I've seen 13W, once), and slowly, linearly, climbs back up over the next minute or so. BD PROCHOT is triggered at the same time. Meanwhile, the GPU is kicked down to 300MHz (and roughly around 12W or so), which leads to hilariously poor performance.

By throttlestopping to max ratio of 38, 38, 34, 30, respectively, and undervolting the CPU by 100mV I seem to have avoided further thermal troubles. Stock is 41, 41, 40, 40.

IMO, the dGPU itself isn't even the main source problem, nor is it a large contributing factor. Just running a CPU-only load will cause thermal throttling, and all I have is a 4 core CPU. I get that the 4 core CPU silicon is likely old, without as many optimizations as the 6 and 8 cores, but it's also a 4 core CPU... something that is also packaged into sub 40W TDPs with reasonable success.
​

I should note I am just spec sheet browsing, though I have strongly considered the X1E and XPS15 through the current and previous generations. I now have a X1C6 (being depreciated and sold sometime in the future) and a XPS 15 7590.

The X1 Extreme is slightly larger, has an extra M.2 NVMe slot, though comes with a 7Whr smaller battery. I know the spec sheets say 17Whr difference, but I haven't seen that extra 10Whr in my battery, and it seems to be a common complaint of the XPS 15's "97Whr" battery.

As for the other bits, I still do like the Thinkpad keyboard layout a bit better. Clustering the fn keys like a desktop KB is great (in my use). The location of the alternate keys for the f1-f12 keys is great (everything critical can be easily done with one hand). The dedicated pgup/pgdwn keys saw frequent use from me. I liked the KB travel, but not everyone does (!!). FWIW, I like the tactile experience of the XPS15 KB, too, despite a slightly shallower travel (its KB is also noisier). The Thinkpad KB does lack one thing: a context menu key. I have no clue why they removed it.

The TrackPoint is nice, and I've never used a Thinkpad touchpad (despite having 3 Thinkpads, though one doesn't have a touchpad at all). But no matter how good you are with a trackpoint, any decent touchpad is just faster and more accurate. Some extremes, such as extremely crowded metro trains and wet fingers, may give the advantage back to the TrackPoint. I've experienced both in spades, but I also wouldn't base any purchasing decision off of that. Just IMO.

AFAIK, the X1E had better thermal management profiles than the XPS 15. Dell seems to be poorly copying the old Apple method of thermal management, and failing at that. Even Apple no longer strictly follows that outdated thinking method.

In the end. what sealed the deal for me was better battery life on the Dell and slightly better pricing. Good deals on the Lenovo side used to be easier to get, but Lenovo seems to be more actively fighting that. The XPS 15 also comes with a base 500nit FHD display, which is an optional upgrade on the X1E2. The X1E2 also has an integrated camera cover, that works with the regular camera and the IR camera.

 

You've basically pointed out the reasons I keep debating. I have a Lenovo P50 for work (but I mainly use my own gear) so I love the keyboard on it (I don't use the trackpoint). I was hoping for more of a keyboard upgrade from the XPS 13 9370 I just sold. If I do any gaming on this, it will be platformers or light 3d (Like Diablo 3, Starcraft 2) and leave the heavy stuff for my desktop or Area51m.

I have 0% financing through Dell (and will pay for it in two months). I ordered a maxed out config (only 1TB though, going to put in my 2TB 970 Evo). I got MPP pricing plus I called in for a little bit more off of the top. I think I'll wait on the Dell to ship (8/30 EST) and see what I think about it then. Thanks for your feedback.

 

Neat, I also play StarCraft 2 on mine. Coop mode, exclusively. It does throttle in there (CPU throttle that triggers BD PROCHOT), so I have since used ThrottleStop to limit the CPU a bit and the issue is now resolved. You'll know when it's throttling, since the performance suddenly goes from 60fps down to 15 and a severe amount of latency is abound. A bit of me cannot believe that I am using ThrottleStop again, lol. My first laptop was an Alienware M11x, and that laptop basically needed ThrottleStop to have any consistent performance. I joined NBR and got to see UncleWebb develop ThottleStop. Nothing has changed much on the Dell side of things, apparently

 

For the rare gaming I will do on the system I don’t mind throttlestop. I have to use it on my Alienware Area 51m to keep my temps in check. What settings are you using to keep it in check? Undervolting the CPU or lowering frequency?

 

Both. For CPU, I was really only looking for something that was better than my X1C6, so I am fine with these restrictions in the only real application I need the performance for (Vivado). In terms of gaming, the GPU isn't so powerful that 2.8GHz-3.6GHz is a problem.

At least in the games I play (StarCraft 2 Coop, Apex Legends). I usually only play one match of either one, and the stock settings are enough to cause throttling by ~10 to 15 min mark in those games. With these throttlestop settings (I'm still running an i5 9300H here), everything has been fine so far. GPU still claims it's being power and thermally throttled at ~10-15min, but it doesn't clock down like it used to. CPU is also in the low to mid 90s, instead of bouncing off of 100C.

 

I have to say I prefer working on my P1 than my XPS 15. It's much more comfortable to type thanks to the trackpoint and less sharp palm rests. I think the XPS 15 will be a bit faster, especially in games, but I use it with an eGPU anyway. I am not likely to keep the 7590 especially with Dell's track record in not sorting out the issues in these laptops.

@Papusan I can't see how any CPU is going to work in the 7590 beyond a 6 core 9750H. It already can't make better use of the higher clocks it has over the 8750H (take a look at the CB loops and graphs I uploaded in the article), so I would have to imagine there's really no reason to go for faster CPUs above the base i7.

 

Hmmm. Makes me wonder if the x1 extreme has typically better thermals?

Even though it does have OLED, would the Precision 5540 be a better way to go?

Scratch that, I meant 7540 not the 5540.

 

I prefer UHD IPS over OLED because I like touch, but I would go OLED over FHD if you don't need matte for outdoor viewing and you aren't going to be doing mostly text editing.

The X1E/P1 seems to have worse thermals/speeds ONLY because Lenovo has nerfed fan speed a lot since release with BIOS updates. Performance is much more consistent however.

edit: give me a good week to see if the XPS 7590 can be made stable. Don't listen to my opinion vs the P1 until then

 

@jeremyshaw a tip: you need to undervolt BOTH "cpu core" AND "cpu cache" (by the same amount) for the undervolt to actually stick (verify using hwinfo64 under stress test).
It looks like you have only set CPU core to -100mv. You may even want to try to push both to -125mv.

Given that yours is a 4 core cpu, I think you should be able to run at stock clocks without the need to reduce the multipliers.

 

Thanks for the head up. I'll take a look into this. I remember there was some warning about not using HWINFO while using ThrottleStop, so I never actually verified my undervolt!

Of note, I noticed when running CPU-only loads, the left side (near esc key) exhaust was rather warm, but the GPU-side exhaust was barely warmed up. So this shared heatsink doesn't seem to be really sharing a whole lot. I've finally started noticing the thing 9570 owners noticed, where the GPU's fan (and only the GPU fan) revs up a bit during some tasks and spins down again.

 

@jeremyshaw the warning was about not using throttlestop and intel xtu at the same time.

 

Sounds good. I've got nothing but time as mine isn't set to ship until 8/30.

Mostly I'll be indoors with controlled light. One of the reasons I sold my XPS 13 9370 is for OLED, the other is that when I used it as my main work computer I felt a little too "cramped" if that makes any sense. Looking for something decent to type on, battery life can be anything 6 hours + as long as I can charge over USBc as an option.

 

we need someone purchasing the new xps with quad core icelake and test it's IPC.

 

Compared to the XPS 13 9343, the XPS 7590 KB is only 1/4" wider (same 4" height, though). That being said, I don't like the layout of the newer XPS 13 KB, though I do like the physical pgup and pgdwn keys.

 

The XPS 15 is noticeably heavier comapared to X1E/P1. Also, I strongly do not recommend the OLED for use with light-coloured apps like word processing.

 

You have probably seen it?

Dell didn’t learn from previous screw up. Burned up 5K Area-51m and thereafter forced Firmware crippling to lower max throttling temp and throttling XPS models due overheating VRMs. This is so DISGUSTING! I haven’t better words for this.

Dell is equipping the XPS 15 7590 with different heatsinks depending on the configuration you buy

The Dell XPS 15 7590. (Image source: Dell)
Contrary to Dell's service manual, not all XPS 15 7590 machines come with the same heatsink. Only the Core i9 models appear to have full VRM cooling, with Dell equipping the other SKUs with a slightly lesser cooler. As its predecessors demonstrated, all XPS 15 need active VRM cooling, so why the penny-pinching Dell?
https://www.notebookcheck.net/Dell-...ng-on-the-configuration-you-buy.427869.0.html

 

I'm not sure what's going on with American tech companies the past decade. It's like they aren't even trying.

 

Why should they bother try if the brand name sell of itself? Just look at the Alienware skull. Enough to drag buyers to The Dell Store. Soldered WiFi and Soldered ram doesn’t matter. You remember when Dell removed the Aw scull Power button on the 2013 models. People went bananas I have still this model. And yeah the power button works without being designed as the Alienware Head. You see? Design is preferred before functionality. Same for Apple products! Yet another American tech company which “don’t try”.

 

I’m not defending their lack of proper vrm cooling but I doubt anyone is surprised that components throttle at this form factor.

 

But why make it worse than it has to be? Only when people stop throwing money on junk we will see a change. Not before.

 

I’ll agree with you there. It’s the same sad story of consumers wanting laptops thinner / lighter, more battery, more performance. You can only pick two but “general” consumers want all three. I miss my Sager (and if they had SLI for RTX I would still have one minus the horrible keyboard) but the a51m does the job.

 

I will note, in the i5 9300H version, the CPU VRM has never caused throttling (I've never seen it reach above the mid 80Cs in load testing; usually stays below 70C in gaming), and it's already down a phase (3 phase or 2+1, I don't know). GPU VRM are still under a strip of metal..

 

They aren't.

US and Euro hardware makers gave up a long time ago. For decades, virtually all production was moved to Asia, so the science, engineering, and production expertise has also migrated.

HP once was a world-class engineering firm. They have been shedding high-value businesses for decades. 2011 was the nail in the coffin, with the purchase of UK-based Autonomy for $11b in 2011; that business was a complete fraud, so now HP just burned away its corporate war chest.

Dell is bumbling along with corporate business and I see cheap Dell computers and monitors in big offices all over the US, Europe, Japan, Korea, etc. Management and capital resources are tied up with the huge acquisition of EMC, a corporate storage business that flatlined two decades ago, so I can understand why their XPS and Alienware businesses are not critical and underinvested.