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    XPS 15 9550 temperature observations (undervolt + repaste)

    Discussion in 'Dell XPS and Studio XPS' started by custom90gt, Dec 28, 2015.

  1. AMD_i7

    AMD_i7 Notebook Guru

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    Is MX-4 better than the stock paste? Or am I better off with something different?

    I've used MX-4 in the past and always thought it does a good job, also it's non-conductive, for piece of mind.
     
  2. AMD_i7

    AMD_i7 Notebook Guru

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    Is it conductive?
     
  3. GoNz0

    GoNz0 Notebook Virtuoso

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    Yes it will be a lot better. I have used that and gelid gc3, not much either way.
     
  4. Splitframe

    Splitframe Notebook Guru

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    I have a XPS 15 9550 with the i7-6700HQ.

    With stock paste and only prime95 running on the maximum heat preset I had 85°C and throttle to 2.8 - 2.9 Ghz.
    With MX-4 paste and the prime 95 preset I now have 75°C with 3.1Ghz and sometimes dropping to 3.0Ghz.

    I'll try to undervolt some now.

    edit: Holy cow, I am now sitting at 65°C with 21.7°C ambient after 10 min and the package Wattage dropped from 46.67W to 33.62W with the same prime95 preset. I put the CPU offset to -150mV. I am thoroughly amazed. Thanks for the advice with the XTU core offset!

    I can't wait to see the improvement in battery life at work tomorrow.
     
    Last edited: Mar 31, 2016
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  5. custom90gt

    custom90gt Doc Mod Super Moderator

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    Nice results, glad it worked out well for you.
     
  6. Rockstar75

    Rockstar75 Notebook Geek

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    Hi, just stopping by, to tell you what I did to my 9550 i6700 and why I am really glad :)
    First I undervolted it by -150mV CPU and -130mV GPU and did a repaste with Arctic Silver 5. My temps where not bad. In playing GTA 5 for about 2h I got about 70°C CPU and about 82°C GPU. Theses Values where reproduceable. Temps where read by HWInfo64. Prime95 was about 70°C.

    Then I changed the paste to Thermal Grizzly Kryonaut and the temps drop to 65°C in Prime95 (10min in max heat preset) and 65° CPU / 75°C in GTA 5.

    After that I read here in a thread that someone put thermalpads on his heatspreader in a 9350 and did it to my 9550. And it works really well:
    Prime is at 60°C, GTA now at 60°C CPU/ 70°C in GTA5. Im really impressed, how well the thermal solution of the 9550 work now!
     
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  7. custom90gt

    custom90gt Doc Mod Super Moderator

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    Hah great idea, I didn't think to try Eason's trick on the 9550. Perhaps I'll open mine up today.
     
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  8. Rockstar75

    Rockstar75 Notebook Geek

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    It´s a really great trick! I used one pad on the CPU and one pad on the GPU (each 2mm thick). Maybe I put some on the heatpipe the next time I open it up again.
     
  9. Bommel87

    Bommel87 Notebook Consultant

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    I ended up doing the same thing, but different paste (Prolimatech PK1): ~62°C in Prime with -165mV undervolt.

    Eason definitely deserves some likes...

    BTW: Does anybody know what that single "Ambient" Sensor is measuring? The one that reaches slightly over 80°C under stress.
     
    Last edited: Apr 3, 2016
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  10. GoNz0

    GoNz0 Notebook Virtuoso

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    got a link to some pics, interesting idea.
     
  11. Rockstar75

    Rockstar75 Notebook Geek

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    I don´t have taken pics but in Eason´s thread "Improving thermals on the XPS 13 w/IRIS" you find a pic with the "idea". I put the pads on the area of GPU and CPU, but not on the heatpipe leading to the fans yet. I did control the 2mm pads getting in contact with the case and everything ist fine. I´m really suprised, how god the cooling can get with this machine!
     
  12. GoNz0

    GoNz0 Notebook Virtuoso

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    So, 2mm pads.
    By controlling the 2mm pads do you mean they are in contact with the case or not?

    I have a pack of 12W/mK Geld 1m pad going to waste but looking at the dual heatpipe I am struggling to see how I can get any gains from it unless it is going out via the case?
     
  13. Bommel87

    Bommel87 Notebook Consultant

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    It is making contact with the case. Just put the basecover on and try for yourself.
     
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  14. GoNz0

    GoNz0 Notebook Virtuoso

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    I will give it a go next time I am in the 9550.
    I did try that with the RAM but it didn't make any difference at all leading me to believe the RAM heat sensors motherboard based! (and the case was cool in that area)
     
  15. R#ph

    R#ph Notebook Enthusiast

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    Very interesting ! Which pad did you use ? W/mK ? Size ?
    Since there's a contact with the case, do you feel it's a lot hotter under the XPS ?
     
  16. Bommel87

    Bommel87 Notebook Consultant

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    I also put a thermal pad on the RAM and I am not so sure it had any impact on its temperature. Contrary to that, you really feel an increase of temperature at the basecover under the CPU if you put a pad here.

    I am still trying to figure out what temperature sensor of which device is giving me over 80°C. HWinfo's listing for DIMM never reaches anything critical.
     
  17. Rockstar75

    Rockstar75 Notebook Geek

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    Yes, it is making contact with the case. That´s what I was looking at. I put a tiny drop of alcohol on the pad and put the base back on it. After opening it up again the alcohol was on the case. I think the case helps getting the heat away by using it as some kind of additional heatspreader. And the results are speaking for themselves :)
     
  18. Rockstar75

    Rockstar75 Notebook Geek

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    I used pads by Phobya 7 W/mK. Bought them at amazon. The area I covered is 2cm*2cm on CPU and GPU. Fot the temperature: it didn´t feel much warmer. Maybe a little but not hot. But i just controlled it by putting my hands on it...
     
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  19. Eason

    Eason Notebook Virtuoso

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    looking forward to trying this today on my new XPS 15, as long as it's not a defective unit :p

    I've tried both MX-4 and Gelid GC extreme, btw. I found that the Gelid gave me better temps by 3-5C.
     
  20. Eason

    Eason Notebook Virtuoso

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    Everything looks great! Paid 1350 + shipping for a i7/512/16/UHD model. Shwinnnng! Repasted and added pads, idles around 32C. Gaming doesn't go over mid 60's (yet).
     
  21. custom90gt

    custom90gt Doc Mod Super Moderator

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    Glad you got a good one!
     
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  22. GoNz0

    GoNz0 Notebook Virtuoso

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    Someone had too :p
     
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  23. Rockstar75

    Rockstar75 Notebook Geek

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    Easton, congratulations to you! And thanks again for your input!
     
  24. Eason

    Eason Notebook Virtuoso

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    Hahaha. Good one.

    Until it explodes :vbrolleyes:
     
  25. loopty

    loopty Notebook Evangelist

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    Viscosity sure makes a difference. Numbers below are for the i7 version.
    Kryonaut: 65C @3700RPM and 20C ambient (130-170 Pa*s)
    Gelid GC-Extreme: 62C @3700RPM and 21.5C ambient (85 Pa*s)
     
    Last edited: Apr 4, 2016
  26. Eason

    Eason Notebook Virtuoso

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    Nothing makes me feel warm and fuzzy like a system operating efficiently :)

    efficiency.jpg
     
  27. Marcelosiciliano

    Marcelosiciliano Notebook Consultant

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    What settings are you using?
     
  28. Eason

    Eason Notebook Virtuoso

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    Not so much settings-- I go through task manager with the C7% window open and see what processes are keeping the cores awake. Razer synapse, google drive, and a few others were culprits. Now I can get 7 hours of battery with an idle drain of 8000 mw
     
  29. Bug in

    Bug in Notebook Enthusiast

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    Hey!

    I m considering adding some thermal pads to my 9550, but i just have a question: it lowers the temperatures when the laptop is on a hard surface (like a desk) and has airflow under it, but is it still relevant to do suc a thing when the xps is often used on my knees or on the bed? The dissipation still works?

    Thanks
     
  30. GoNz0

    GoNz0 Notebook Virtuoso

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    The laptop is not designed to have the bottom vents covered, best to buy something to put it on with or without the mod.

    Sent from my SM-G920F using Tapatalk
     
  31. Eason

    Eason Notebook Virtuoso

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    The inside bottom of my XPS 15 is covered by rough black thin plastic. The only area that is clear is the area right by the fans. Is this how the bottom is supposed to be? My XPS 13 had a totally clear bottom vent
     
  32. Bommel87

    Bommel87 Notebook Consultant

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    Same for my XPS 15. It is normal.
     
  33. nhidog

    nhidog Notebook Enthusiast

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    2mm thermal pad (just bought the plain one from Amazon for $10) along the entire heat pipe really helps. The underside does get hot so contact is good, probably don't want to have it on your lap at full load. CPU load went from 75 to 65. GPU load went from 83 to 76. Tested by running Dota 2 at 4k and watching matches for 20m. Since underside is acting as heat sink now, would benefit from having a laptop cooling pad. Thanks.

    Got bumblebee working in Linux correctly, Superb laptop now. Just like Windows without the bloat. Linux actually runs cooler than Windows even though my Windows was being undervolted by -170mv.
     
  34. Eason

    Eason Notebook Virtuoso

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    Just a PSA I found high GPU temps (88-90C) despite my repaste/pads during gaming or furmark. I checked the heat sink contacts and found, using a dollop of thermal grease, that the pads on the GPU memory chips weren't even touching! In my case it was the left two. I took their pads off and replaced them with thicker ones-- as well as adding a nice layer of TIM on the chips just to make sure. The GPU now peaks at 81C in games and only gets up to 83C in furmark. (Ambient temp is 26C)
     
    Last edited: Apr 10, 2016
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  35. Eason

    Eason Notebook Virtuoso

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    I'd be much obliged btw if someone with the i7 could check their temps after a few minutes of furmark
     
  36. GoNz0

    GoNz0 Notebook Virtuoso

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    Bloody hot last time I did it, nearly 90.
     
  37. Eason

    Eason Notebook Virtuoso

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    Ok, just want to make sure I've fixed the issue with my heatpipe not touching the GPU's RAM.

    btw, you're an engineer- what's the deal with the black material on the bottom of the case? Is it some kind of carbon material that doesn't conduct heat so the bottom stays cooler to the touch? It just seems like it's blocking the vents, as on the XPS 13 the vents are clear.

    I've got half a mind to x-acto knife the material covering the vent...
     
  38. GoNz0

    GoNz0 Notebook Virtuoso

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    Plain old plastics stuck to the base is to stop anything shorting out when excess pressures applied to the base, plastic with a copper backings in place to spread the heat out to stop hot spots & aid cooling by spreading it out.

    Basically what you do with thermal pads on the back on the heatpipes :)

    The old 9530 had the copper backed plastic or just a copper strip but I can't be sure to wick away heat on the carbon base.


    If you are referring to the bit near the exit vents I think it is to stop light bleed from the keyboard?
     
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  39. Eason

    Eason Notebook Virtuoso

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    learn something new every day!
     
  40. GoNz0

    GoNz0 Notebook Virtuoso

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    I am still stunned by the so called Dell engineers who rip the mylar off the keyboard and throw it away when it is in place to stop light bleed!
    Even worst is a new keyboard doesn't ship with it.

    When Toshiba released an ultrabook with mylar that needed reusing we got an all engineers email with a text saying read and make note. Dell are so sh!t.
     
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  41. Eason

    Eason Notebook Virtuoso

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    They're really lucky there's no laptops like the XPS 15/13. :p
     
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  42. AMD_i7

    AMD_i7 Notebook Guru

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    OK, I finally got around to re-pasting the CPU / GPU, and I can say it was well worth the effort. The fan noise has reduced considerably, and the CPU temps are the best I've ever seen in a laptop.

    I used MX-4 on the CPU & GPU, after cleaning away the stock thermal paste. It wasn't any worse than I expected, typical factory job, it was possibly just a pad of cheap paste over both processors. It was evident that the thermal pad of the GPU ram chip which lies below the heat pipe was not making any contact at all. All four GPU ram chips use cheap looking 1mm thermal pads, but the other three were contacting correctly. I only replaced the pad under the heat pipe, and I would recommend using a 1.5mm pad for doing this, however, I only had a 2mm pad. I squashed the s**t out of the thermal pad to reduce it's thickness, and it seems to have done the trick. After replacing the heat pipe assembly I then placed 1.5x2cm thermal pads (2mm thick) on top of the heat pipes directly above the CPU and GPU cores. I also placed small pieces of thermal pad on the ends of the heat pipes, next to the two fans. The thermal pad used was Thermal Grizzly minus 8, 2mm thickness, and I also used this on the 950 Pro.

    I ran Prime 95 for around 15 minutes, with -150mV core voltage (using Intel XTU), with the laptop sitting on my lap, using a Trust Frio Notebook Cooling Stand with the fan enabled (to cool the base of the laptop). There was no throttling whatsoever, the CPU sat on 3.1GHz the entire time, and the fans did not even reach the middle speed setting. Peak core temperature was 66c (for only a few seconds); most of the time it was around 63c. Idle temp is around 30c, from 33c previously.

    I haven't pushed the GPU yet, but I did initially test it by playing Hearthstone windowed, so I could keep an eye on temperature performance. Playing for about 20 minutes, the CPU did not exceed 50c (under clocked to 2.2GHz with -150mV), and the GPU peaked at 58c but was around 55c for most of the time. Hearthstone is not the most demanding game, but this was certainly a big improvement, most noticeably the fan only hit the second speed setting and was not really noticeable. Previously the fans could get quite loud, even with the CPU under clocked.
     
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  43. Eason

    Eason Notebook Virtuoso

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    Thinking of using .5mm copper shims instead of thermal pads on the RAM, attaching with TIM. Safe?
     
  44. Bommel87

    Bommel87 Notebook Consultant

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    Sounds safe if the copper fits well. But why would you do that? In that case, you would have a TIM - Copper - TIM stack vs. the single pad.

    That does not really sound like a benefit.
     
  45. GoNz0

    GoNz0 Notebook Virtuoso

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    I would say it is a really bad idea as you don't have enough pressure to make it work like you would with a high end cooling setup.
     
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  46. Eason

    Eason Notebook Virtuoso

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    Yeah was just because I didn't have .5mm pad, only .5mm copper, and that lower-left RAM module on the GPU is about .5mm short. I ended up just pinching the other 3 pads as flat as I could and not pinching the pad on the oddball RAM chip.
     
  47. custom90gt

    custom90gt Doc Mod Super Moderator

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    I wouldn't use copper in a laptop because it could slide around and then you'd have more problems than the ram chip that was never touched by thermal pad. I say just order some thermal pad and do it right. You'll need it in the future for some random project anyway...
     
  48. Marcelosiciliano

    Marcelosiciliano Notebook Consultant

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    Guys I have a question.
    Did you noticed that there is a chip that looks like a cpu/gpu just under one of the fans? Is that the PCH? That thing is damn hot, sometimes hotter than the cpu. Why not put a heatsink on it?
     
  49. R#ph

    R#ph Notebook Enthusiast

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    So, here are my results : i7/FHD/16Go/512 on raid with 150mV undervolting.
    (Tried without undervolting, thermal throttling was happening)

    Stock paste, CPU stress on Prime95 for 10 minutes :
    [​IMG]

    After repaste with Grizzly Kryonaut, and adding a 120x20x2 mm thermal pad (grizzly minus 8) all over the heat pipes (I divided it in 3 parts) :
    [​IMG]

    Observations :
    - Idle temps are far lower
    - 15°C improvement on CPU on heavy load
    - Time before fan activation is really longer
    - Each fan speed level is reached really later than before
    - Under heavy load, the bottom cover is really hot, don't touch it
    - Now in regular use on AC (CPU min @100%), most of the time (90%), the fan are at 0 rpm (before, fans were ON half of the time or more)
    - If you plan to repaste, be sure to have all the necessary in order to clean the Dell dirty work. There was paste everywhere. I used arctic cleaner to remove all the paste, it was really helpful.
    - Before repaste, there was a 10°C difference between two cores. After repaste, it's 5° max.
    - After repaste, on heavy load (prime), fans are running most of the time at 4100 rpm, not 4900. There's a big audible difference between both speeds.

    Side observations : On overload (prime95 + furMark at the same time), throttling is impossible to avoid.

    Before :
    [​IMG]
    Notice the really hight CPU temps...

    After :
    [​IMG]

    CPU temps are far better (10°C), but notice the first Ambient sensor : 114°C !!! oO :eek:
    I didn't find any information about the ambient sensors (where are they on the motherboard ?) but I think there's a side effect after adding the pads.

    Anyway, it's worth an upgrade :cool:
     
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  50. custom90gt

    custom90gt Doc Mod Super Moderator

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    Great post, like the HWiNFO shots
     
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