XPS 15 9570 will have the same thermal issues as its predecessors

Looks like same exact heat spreader in the manual just posted. Still 2 pipes, which the Zenbook pro has already shown to be far insufficient for an i7-7700HQ + 1050ti (performance around a 1050).

https://www.ultrabookreview.com/20124-new-xps-15-9570-looks-like-will-thermal-issues-9560-9550/

 

Dell doesn't dissappoint. This is exacly what you can expect from them since 2015.

 

Hahaha Eason. Looks like Frank Azor will have something to say about 9570 cooling

https://twitter.com/AzorFrank/status/995324531219853312

To be frank, he won't have much to say as the Dell service manual images spill the beans already.

Reddit had the link to twitter

 

I expect advanced throttling strategies

 

Well, based on previous experience, I guess Frank will promise a quick solution and that will be the last we hear of it...

 

I saw this coming long ago.

This design needed a revamp or wait till there’s hardware that is more efficient for that chassis.

 

The thing Frank will announce is probably that the new 9570 uses the exclusive GORE technology developed by Dell.

 

Yes, I've heard that it is the best things since sliced bread. And probably as effective for cooling as well

 

It doesn't do much for cooling. It's purpose is to insulate the heat from the user, so the bottom doesn't get hot. It does nothing to conduct or dissipate heat, in fact it keeps the chassis from conducting and dissipating the heat. I suspect it could actually worsen the thermals.

But hey, its cooler to the touch; and most people will think that means it is running cooler inside.

 

However the VRM padding exercises with the 9550/9560 have shown that the case bottom isn't a very efficient heatsink (unless one adds a cooling stand) and that conducting much heat there actually made things worse.

 

True, but iunlock's method solved the issue.

 

Hello !
Can you send a link explaining this method ?

 

A thread nearby
http://forum.notebookreview.com/thr...ures-benchmarks-xps-15-9560-kaby-lake.802345/

 

Throttling to 800mhz routinely and having to reboot was the final straw with the 9560. Undervolting, thermal paste reapplication and VRM thermal pads didn't fix it for me. I was interested in a 9570 as well.

 

More of the same it would seem.

I asked Azor as well and this is the response:

Replying to @ds_sec1 @rlytyvm
XPS 15 is not designed to run CPU and GPU simultaneously at 100% of their capacity. It power and thermal shares between them depending on the task at hand.
10:10 AM - 14 May 2018
https://twitter.com/AzorFrank/status/996075296406286336


He opaquely answered with that. I'm sure 9550 and 9560 users were not using GPU and CPU at 100% all the time. I immediately canceled my order after reading that and the mods people have to do to fix the design flaws. No sense dropping 2k on a notebook that will run at 800 mhz after a few minutes of moderate workload.

I'm not sure if there are any viable alternatives at this time.

 

Good old Dell, way to drop the ball for the third consecutive time.

 

I think Frank's answer would be the same for the 9550 and 9560.

With a good undervolt and repaste, you recovered a lot of "free" performance from the 9550 and 9560 without a lot of effort.

With the 9560 7700HQ, additional cooling tricks were required to run at marketing spec, particulary for video gaming or running other processes that were both CPU & GPU intensive; that took a bit of effort.

Of course, we won't know how serious it is on the 9570 until released. ​

 

@custom90gt How can I PM you lmao I'm noob to this forum. I need some help about this iunlock modding guide, I don't understand some steps. Do you have a discord? Add me if so:
dellpotato#1415

Thanks a lot!

 

@pressing do you know anything about the mod either?

 

Just what iRead on the iUnlock thread. . .

 

Ah balls. I'm a bit confused on the steps where he "measures clearance" and the step before and after that step. @pressing

 

So, what do we think about the 9570 and throttling with a powerful CPU for ”office use”, like development work? Ie very limited GPU use (probably not even need for using the dGPU) and heavy CPU work mainly as shorter bursts like 1-2 min for compilation etc? Still no Speed Shift support in BIOS?

My current 9560 with 7700HQ doesnt really throttle that much for this scenario but their is a constant feeeling of lag and as we all know, things like drivers and BIOS is a complete mess with Dell...

 

You have 2 more cores in the 9570 with the "same" case and heatsink so, out of the box, a few people are reporting throttling with Prime95 after a few minutes. We will see how much repaste, undervolt etc. help.

Dell does not provide SpeedShift support in BIOS for 9570. That has been enabled with ThrottleStop by at least one person (not sure about the other schemes from the SpeedShift thread yet).​

 

Well, I find that Prime95 is unnaturally heavy on the CPU and that it does not really well represent a more "business like" scenario, unless you are into video editing, datamining etc.

My main problem with the current XPS is that it somehow feels like the internal design in itself is broken, like there are bottlenecks besides CPU throttling. Not sure how much the gimped TB3 is affecting performance, and if there are other simlar solutions in the 9560 causing a constant feeling of lag.

Any advantages to using ThrottleStop compared to "hacking" the BIOS? Besides the obvious one that you can easily disable it.

Have Dell given any explaination to once again missing out on SpeedShift in the 9570? Its things like that that has me having some mistrust towards Dell these days, seems like the cut corners to much...

 

Same here, but it feels snappier in Visual Studio with Speedshift enabled.

 

EDIT - Speed shift is now in BIOS of 9570!! @woohoo7676 posted a photo below
​

I use ThrottleStop for SpeedShift because it is easy to change from high performance to low power consumption by changing EPP from 0 to 255. Also, I use ThrottleStop for undervolts so it is on anyways (Intel XTU does undervolts but is a bit unstable on the 9550 & 9560).

You can not shut off SpeedShift without a restart (sometimes it goes off if system goes to sleep or there is a Windoze crash)

A Dell representative on the Dell forums confirmed there will be no official SpeedShift support for the 9550 & 9560. As the 9570 is rather the same platform, I would not expect Dell to change position there but have not heard. Currently, SpeedShift is not an option on 9570 BIOS screens.

@GoNz0 noted that either Dell does not want to take the time to validate SpeedShift for stability or that Dell has found issues with SpeedShift. Based on the ThrottleStop & XPS SpeedShift threads here, it seems that SpeedShift indeed is rock-solid for a lot of people. . .

SpeedShift with EPP=0 (or at a low figure) should provide snappier performance than SpeedStep can as SpeedShift is native to the CPU and more developed.

On the other hand, it is tough to troubleshoot performance or thermal issues only running at idle or with light tasks. A heavy benchmark like Prime95 helps me focus on the big issues quickly. Then I can tweak based on the actual applications and games I actually use.

There are some compromises with the small laptop form factor. There definitely are some hidden bottlenecks we havent sorted. But after many months of driver updates, the 9550 & 9560 latency response went from decent to excellent. For me, sorting out the thermal issues helped. And a few tricks to run around some of Dell's schemes helped but might not carry over to the 9570. For example:

- boosting package power limits to 65w via ThrottleStop & RWEverything to essentially disable PL throttling

- disabling c-states for lowest latency & enabling SpeedShift with EPP=0 to allow higher Turbo clocks than Dell expected

Dell gets credit for reworking the TB3 to x4 lanes on the 9570 but they deserved some harassment for the tricky marketing on the x2 9550 & 9560. That said, the x2 solution did not impact many people as it still provided a lot of fast bandwidth. x2 definitely impacted performance for those using eGPUs piped back to laptop screen.​

 

Regarding SpeedShift, I recall for 9550/60 support was later added in two Dell Command things?
I've never tested because I've got ThrottleStop.

 

Dell command isn't laptop specific, it had lots of things our laptops don't have, thing is I wasn't aware of any Dell kit that supported it?

 

My experience is also that when having disabled C-states and SpeedStep, DPC problems decreased. Have not yet had time to try out the SpeedShift solution.

 

https://www.dell.com/support/home/us/en/19/Drivers/DriversDetails?driverId=RJF4F

 

Just got my 9570 - it looks like SpeedShift is now supported, there is a section in the BIOS with "Enable Intel Speed Shift Technology". Also in hwInfo64, SST is green.

 

Great!

What BIOS are you running on the 9570?

I think you set EPP in Windows>Control Panel> Power options. That EPP dropdown might not be available; if so you can enable it manually.

EPP=0 for max performance
EPP= 100% (or maybe 255) for max battery life
EPP = 50% (or maybe 128) for typical use per Intel
EPP ~33% (or maybe 70) for a balance which allows you to hit max turbo clocks when needed. You will need to find this point yourself

 

I now about it, I have looked before, you can't apply it as it doesn't validate options missing from the 9560 unfortunately, unless someone knows different?

 

Looks like the bios is 1.0.5 (4/23/2018)