XPS L702x vs. the i7-2920XM / Heat

Heat, i7-2920xm, L702x and you:

I had the change to test/configure/fix/upgrade a L702x (and get a bud to stop whining).

i7-2720QM, 8GB, 555M 3GB, 500GB, 1080P 3D, Centrino 1000

Buddy was complaining the system was throttling/overheating with sluggish game play (World of Warcraft buddy who got all giddy over 3D) and near constant fan activity off and on no matter what during regular usage. He also wanted an i7-2920xm installed (didn't know if it was going to work, but hey his dime so let's have at it) for rendering scene/music mash ups and WiFi upgrade to 6300.

For the record, I recommended the Alienware M17x r3, but he isn't a super heavy gamer, and wanted the smaller size and PSU, same 3D panel and lower cost. Priority wise, cutting his rendering times from the i5-520m in his (now old) 1749 was his number one priority.

Playing, the fan was running very loudly and in crowded areas (where player data tends to push the CPU), temps were hitting 92-95 and Intel turbo monitor was all over the map (Dropping down to 2.8ghz at one point). This is with a 9-Cell so it was getting some elevation.

The temps on these things can get pretty brutal and it comes down to our old enemies: Air flow and thermal compound application.

#1. Dell, as always, did not match the intake dimensions with the actual fan size.

#2. The actual intake is further compromised by very small openings that probably reduce intake availability by ~50%

#3. They insist on putting that extra mesh cover on the inside that cuts down on potential air flow even more to what I would estimate would be ~20% total.

#4. As always, Dell's thermal application is sloppy. It seems they switched compounds to a more modern compound, but there was more on the outside of the chip than actually under the heatsink lacking the classic dispersion pattern of good application seen when removing a heatsink

With an i7-2720QM, I was seeing temps as high as 95 under moderate shared load (World of Warcraft)

He wanted optimal temps, and I immediately smiled diabolically and grabbed my dremel and he said not THAT optimal (heh).

Once that dream faded , I took the whole thing apart and removed the mesh, redid the thermal compound with some MX-4 and sealed the small gap between the fan and copper exhaust (installed the 2920xm and 6300 while I was in there). Glad to know the 2920xm works fine in the L702x. This was with the A08 BIOS.



I also did a fresh install of Windows with the newest drivers (including OEM when applicable).

Before and after, power plan was set to performance.

After sitting around Stormwind and running a few instances together the temps dropped very nicely. Before where temps were hitting 95 (with the i7-2720qm), they peaked at 81 (with the i7-2920xm). Normal surfing and usage, the fan stopped ramping up and down almost completely. Note, this was even with the upgrade to a 2920xm. The GPU topped at 69 before the reapplication of thermal compound and didn't go past 65 after which was nice.

The system was able to hit 3.5ghz turbo with the 2920xm and stay there during game play (WoW is primarily single threaded).

I'll be interested to hear about his render/encode times over the next few days.

USB3.0 ports worked fine, and even with 2.0 WD HD, I was seeing ~33-35MB/sec transfer rates.

Some Pros I noted with the L702x:

Insanely bright screen with a very crisp and nice picture. It isn't on par with an RGBLED panel (not much is) or a B+RG panels but I still like it. I went ahead and calibrated it with a Spyder3. In the realm of normal panels, I really liked the panel and would have no problems using it on a day to day basis.

Keyboard is very nice with good feedback and really no flex. I like how the palm rest bezel actually locks the keyboard into place versus it being secured separately.

Fairly lightweight for a 17.3". It is built like the 174X Studio XPS line in regards to fit and finish just a smidge nicer.

Sound system is very nice.

Trackpad is very nice.

System included both HD mounting brackets, and I like how the empty bracket stores the screws for the HD screwed into the front of the bracket (versus having to find them later on).

Can't go wrong with 4 DIMM slots.

A few cons:

Keyboard back lighting could be a little brighter

Slot loading optical drive would have been nice

Dell left out a few screws on the inside, namely two for the display

5th retention screw on Heatsink (GPU) wasn't locked down.

Hopefully I'll get a chance to give Throttlestop a whirl this weekend and run some other benchmarks.

 

"He wanted optimal temps, and I immediately smiled diabolically and grabbed my dremel and he said not THAT optimal (heh)."

OMG! you have to expand on that please!
And great work by the way....
you now have a new groupie ( a very large hairy one at that!)

 

Electrosoft I have a question. I got the 3d version with I5 2410 Proc GT550M and 4Gig of ram. Room Temp is 75 F. Idle CPU 50-55C/GPU 50C/Chassis 55C. I have noticed that CPU will spike to 100C on occasion running 3d Mark06 and installing applications. Figure this is when the turbo kicks in and if I am running prime 95 runs cpu 100% and CPU temp will spike to 97-99 and then stay around 90C. This is my first laptop so have no experience what is normal. I do know on Servers I work on and my Desktop 70C for CPU when running prime was max I hit and they are older procs. I do know that they have better airflow though. Playing DDO just sitting in town I stall 70 to 75C and Proc jumps from 2.3 to 2.8 constantly and when running around the w key that I use to move actually stung at one point from what appears to be heat coming from under keyboard. So I guess my question is Did I get bad heatsink fit and compound or is this normal for laptop. Also the left hand rest gets fairly warm but have not gotten GPU over 65C with 3d Mark 06. Do I need to call support and complain or is this normal for what I am doing. Thanks in advance for any help.

If it seems I give to much info well I am Software/Hardware tester and engineers like lots of info even though they don't read it

 

Rooster,

Thanks. I wanted to completely open up his intake area on the bottom of the chassis with the trusty dremel kit and install a ~2.5-3.0" diameter fan grill to achieve ~90% air flow efficiency. The temps are good enough now that he's happy, but I know with the way SB works, more air flow, better temps the more it will clock higher and I haven't even attacked it with Throttlestop yet to answer some personal questions.

Sbiza,

Something is definitely wrong with your temps. The 2410 is one of the cooler running, 35w dual core cpus. In addition, you're running the 550m not the 555m. Here are the temps after running 3Dmark06 on the modified 2920xm / 555m L702x:



3Dmark06 scores (ambient temp = 72F):



CPU (55w 2920xm) never hit 80, and GPU (555m) peaked at 61. The fan never kicked into what I call, "Prime95/Furmark 1.9" gear.

Do you have the 6 cell or 9 cell battery? 9 Cell definitely adds some much needed clearance for air intake. If you're using the 6-cell, elevate the rear of the unit while testing and see where your temps go.

If your temps are still poor, it could be a fan problem, air intake issue, poor thermal application or on the rare occasion, tension screws not entire tightened (one of the GPU screws (#5) was loose when I was fixing his system).

If your system is spiking to 100, your fan should really be moving and will be very audible.

You could open it up yourself and remove the mesh, clean up Dell's thermal application and apply your own and make sure the HS is secured. If you are using a 6 cell, make sure to give it some elevation if required (Set of Cool Balls would do the trick).

 

I have the 9 cell battery so it has the rear elevation. Desktop and Severs I can tear apart but snap together plastic I never been good at. I will pay attention to the temp during 3d mark 06. Yes the fan spins up real high and when temp goes down I can hear it spinning down. I been surprised that I have not gotten the GPU over 70 most the time 63 but the CPU is a concern. Thank you for your response.

 

Ok so Playing Dragon Age Origins for about 20 minutes the whole time both core temps were between 80c and 90c. I was running in 3d mode not sure that make much of a difference but I do not believe that it would be good to have the cpu temp that high during normal gaming would it? GPU never got above 67. Do you think it will hurt the system to run from 70C-90C during Movie and Game play for around 4 hours at a time? If yes then I have 2 options I guess. Call support and complain about CPU temps or attempt to break system down and apply good thermal paste. Thanks for you time one this.

 

Those temperatures are amazing considering your fan isn't as loud as a jet taking off..

 

Just from personal experience, I wouldn't be too concerned with those temps, these newer laptops tend to be more robust than in the past. Of course, cooler temps is always better, that's just common sense, but for me, just being vigilant with current information and with being aware of proper ventilation should keep you out of trouble. 100C and above sustained for a extended period of time would cause concern for me, but that's just my opinion, and I am definitely not an expert with laptops...

 

Like Rooster said, I wouldn't be concerned with your cores fluctuating between 80 and 90. It is when they are pegged over 90 on a consistent basis that I would be concerned and over 100 requires addressing the problem immediately. The only concern I still have, accepting that a range of 80 to 90 is passable, is the 2410M running that warm. For me, personally, I would have had the system broke down already looking at ways to cool it down and assist the one choke point that is already obstructed by small grills and then the mesh covering.

 

Well I work with desktops and sit in a Data Center type environment ever day so a single laptop fan running probably does not even register with my brain anymore since I hear hundreds of Server Fans everyday.

 

Wow, I purchased a non 3d screen on the weekend and now thx to this post I just bought a 3d screen moments ago and will be sending back the non 3d. The temp complaints were my biggest issue with this screen.

Thanks for this do up on the potential fan problem fix. Is there a walk through anywhere on how to take one of these puppies apart to put in the 2920xm processor?

 

I couldn't find this thread due to the odd title but I did a repaste based upon this thread. I just got this laptop a couple weeks ago, and after getting everything dialed in (SSD, softwares), my stock temps would peak around 95 (cpu) and 83 (gpu). While this seemed normal to me, I personally don't like to see anything over 90 while doing things I will often do. I know chances are the hardware will take it but I use my machines for 2-3 years and skimped on a 1yr warranty. My previous laptop was a HP HDX16T... repaste on that dropped my temps by 15-20... so it kind of ate at me until I finally broke down and got the tools out.

After repaste and intake fan area mesh removal, I get ~81 max cpu and 59 max gpu. GPU peaks at 59 max with or without with max 770 overclock (msi tool). So not only are my peak temps much lower, I am sure heavy use performance is much better as I'll have no cpu throttling and can oc the gpu easy as pie. To be honest, I was shocked at the results. I think the mesh is a big contributor, and I don't see much reason for it to be there. Maybe if you have a lot of pet hair floating around? The lower case is still grilled, the mesh seems super conservative of Dell.

I have the base i7 quad cpu and gt555 card. All I did was remove the interior mesh at the fan intake, thoroughly cleaned off all the old thermal paste, and did a repaste with as5. I was very careful to buff all surfaces perfectly clean, but didn't do any extra polish work on the heatsink. The copper surfaces were pretty rough, there is probably even more room if you take care to do that.

Dell's factory paste job looked fine to me, as were all the clamping screws. I was really surprised at the result but am definitely not complaining. Based upon my results this seems like a mandatory tweak, especially if you want to OC or tend to keep hardware for a long time. Dropping both temps 15-20 degrees is huge for everything, not just performance/oc but less system heat pays off everywhere, better on the fan, easier life for all other components, especially your hard drives.

 

I'm not real comforable doing the repaste, but I have had the L702x apart to retrieve a disk drive caddy screw that got away from me while installing a drive, and removing the fan intake mesh seems like a good payoff for minimal work.

You are referring the the mesh that covers all the vents on the bottom cover, correct?

 

Yes. I removed only the mesh on the grille portion over the fan intake. HDD and memory mesh is still there, though I may remove the HDD one too.

I can see why Dell uses the mesh because they need to be conservative for all sorts of peters, but short of actually trying to stick something into the fan blades, I don't forsee having any problem at all with the mesh gone.

One thing I didn't think of, is sticking the mesh back on the outside afterwards to see if it really made a difference. I've already thrown mine away, but that would be good info to have so others can know if removing the mesh is really helping or not.

Tearing the laptop down to pcs is riskier than the actual step of repasting. If you have the ability to disassemble the laptop down to get to the heatsink, you have the ability to do the repaste.

 

i think the mesh filters dust more than anything.

 

Dust and air, lol. When I get mine I'm going to take out just the mesh and see if that does anything to the temps. I'll report any results here. It will be a while though cause delivery is not till June.

 

When you were playing the game, did you notice that your left palm is burning as a result of the heating from the gpu underneath? I have tried playing NFS Hot Persuit for 10 minutes and I had to resort to using an external keyboard. In the end I have abandoned the idea of playing the game.

Spoke to Dell but they said nothing except for the fact that it is normal. Mind you, I am using the 2630qm and not even the 2920xm cpu though. Really cross with Dell as I could not return the unit as it has passed the 7 days return date and three Dell dell engineer visits to change the fan/heatsink.

I have found out that the thermal compound which they are using is quite different. It is square in shape and blue in colour. The engineer did not even need to squeeze out the thermal compound as it was already stuck to the fan/heatsink.

I have tried using a notebook cooler and followed many people's advise including Scott's and RoosterRed from their previous posts but nothing could be done. I am left with a laptop which potentially emitting fan noise at a high level which is annoying but not as bad as a jet engine.

Perhaps I would need to try out Slare's idea of removing the mesh covering the air intake. Trouble is that I don't know how to remove the mesh along the base panel but I know how to remove the mesh covering the ventilation duct. If I make a mess out of everything, at least I could still console myself as I have used the IC Diamond 7 and not the OEM thermal paste by Dell...

Oh yes Nigel, I will also post my results after removing the grill (if I can).

What do you guys think?

 

I guess it all boils down to what you are willing to do. electrosoft has some fantastic ideas for cooling, but if you're not comfortable with your tech skills, that could present a problem. You can still do some of his suggestions with minimal skills, and if the fan noise is more than a high rev count such as a bearing going bad, or maybe it just needs a good cleaning. But this is just conjecture, and I know not much help for you, but I thought I would throw out my opinion for you to mull over...
either way, let us know what route you do take, k?

 

For the people who removed the grill and what not...can you paste some pictures? I want to see what it looks like

 

electrosoft great info, thanks mate.

If you get a chance to have a go at another one or pull down your mates again maybe you could take some pictures and put together a how to for those of us wanting to do this mod.

Cheers Al

 

What about the idea of putting some of that thin silver type insulation on the inside of the case between the GPU and you left palm so it doesn't get as hot?

Cool on the posting of the results when you get them too.

 

The next idea I have is to track down a spare bottom chassis and modify it with a circular saw and a ~30mm fan grill for even better air flow (~90%) when I find one for a decent price.

The 9-Cell battery really adds that extra clearance (along with longer battery run time) for air flow. Rear elevation can't be stressed enough for good temps.

You could remove the mesh for the HD/memory, but with passive air flow, I'm not sure it will help much. I know on my old MSI, removing the mesh and augmenting the bottom with a dremel for better air flow for the HD/mem didn't do much passively.

The left palm rest does get warm, but the only concern with putting an internal insulation solution is trapped heat and higher temps.

Buddy is bummed because Dell locked their BIOS so the 2920xm can not take advantage of Throttlestop, but it still rips along with good temps even at 55w.

 

I removed the mesh over the fan intake today, and thought I'd list the results. I used Real Temp 3.60 to measure these temps, which shows temps for all four cores. I listed the highest temp, regardless of which core reached it.

Test machine is a 2D 2720QM with the GT550M the 1080P glass.

I used Prime 95 25.11 to max out the CPU.

I have the 6 cell battery, so I tested with and without 3/4" shims under the rear feet to simulate the 9 cell battery.

I tested with and without the mesh in place, though I didn't think to do a "with mesh" test with the shims in place before I removed the mesh. Not wanting to crack the case again, I did the "with mesh" tests with the mesh stuck to the outside of the case.

Ambient temp was 72F for all tests.

I paid no attention to the throttled state of the CPU.


No mesh, flat: 96C
No mesh, shimmed: 86C
w/Mesh, flat: 96C
w/Mesh, shimmed: 94C

I didn't have the patience to run these repeatedly, so this is the result of one test in each condition for approx ten minutes. A better test would be to take the average of several iterations in each condition. I'll let you draw your own conclusions, but there seems to be a 2 + 2 = 6 effect when the rear of the chassis is raised and the mesh is removed.

 

Do you have to disassemble most of the laptop to get to the mesh you guys are referring? I'm tempted to pull it apart anyway to do the thermal paste, just wondering if I can get to the mesh fairly easy or if I should do both at the same time.

 

Wow, cool, I'd LOVE to see pics on that bottom case when you get around to it.

How much heat is actually dissipating by the palm rest getting hot though? Not much more than just natural air transfer maybe?

Wow, that sucks about the dell bios. Is anyone able to break into a bios and re-vamp it?

Thx

 

You need to remove the memory access panel, one screw to remove the DVD drive, three screws to release the palm rest that are visible when the DVD's out.

Pop out the dummy SD card (or real one if you have one)

Snap off the palm rest, disconnect keyboard ribbons and remove. There are ten screws under the keyboard and palmrest to remove. Then flip the laptop over and remove ten more screws, and the bottom cover will be free. If you really want to remove it and set it aside, you'll need to disconnect a cable (subwoofer maybe) from the top (under the keyboard). I didn't as I just slipped an xacto knife in under the corner of the mesh to loosen it, then pulled it off while the cable was still attached. The mesh is glued on.

Reverse the process to resassemble. You should go to the Dell site and download the repair manual, it has step by step destructions for all this, and some pictures.

I decided not to do the thermal paste just now as temps never went over 100C before the mesh removal, and someone here mentiond that they thought the dell paste job was pretty decent. I know I'll never stress the machine like Prime 95.

I do have a concern about removing the mesh, and that is that it will now allow larger bits of debris to be sucked in, and the fan may need to be cleaned more often. I have pet hair in the house. At least the parrots have moved out. Even so, the intake filters on my desktops do get nasty fairly qiuckly.

 

Here's that mesh after 2 months.

 

Uh, I very seriously doubt those temps will do anything to the mobo. And where is the mobo supposed to warp to? Things are pretty tight in there. Unless you're running over 100c constantly across a large area on the board I seriously doubt it will warp.