Does this site have a policy against fraud?

Like posting expliots in order for capital savings? The lieing about being a perspective Drake University student topic, is an example...

 

Wait, but by being prospective, it just means you're just looking into the school...right?

 

There was nothing illegal about it. It was a page that anyone could order from without being a Drake student. Drake didn't put any money into it, Dell just made a pricing mistake that someone caught onto. Dell noticed and killed it. Story's over. There's no need to piss on the parade.

 

Some people in the thread do not qualify in being a prospective Drake University student, but insists on explioting the system... This is unfair and unethical.

 

Dell gave that discoiut to Drake University. There is a reason why this is not listed for all colleges... Someone took the time to update the Drake University page to include that savings. Do you disagree, and if so why.

You can rationalize this all you want, but in my mind, green is green, and a car is a car...

 

Actually, it was listed at several colleges for that price. When dell realized its error, the m1330 was removed from all of them.

 

Read the topic, the discount is the same for EVERY SINGLE UNIVERSITY. It's just every site is based slightly different in terms of upgrades, and stuff...but that has no relation to how much the college pays Dell to compensate. The truth is the "discount" were ERRORS on the page, and were never intended to be given to ANY student at Drake or otherwise. People can try to use said errors as a method of discounts, but Dell has the right to cancel those orders if they see fit.

 

If I am wrong, then I am wrong. I do not believe taking advantage of expliots is 100% ethical. Isn't taking advantage of a known error, also considered unethical?

 

Also what is EPP, and who has taken advantage of EPP while not being qualified?

 

EPP is the Employee Purchase Program, this was exploited for the Lenovo Thinkpad T61, where the employee released his serial number and name to the public. The EPP account was originally intended for distribution to family members and friends only, however since it was released publicly, people swamped for it.

Many people have exploited this and purchased under the EPP account, which would be considered identity fraudulence, which is a more serious offense, and thus some orders were canceled, however many others were honored.

The EPP account was eventually removed and I'm sure the employee got quite a bit of explaining to do.

 

Fraud without being caught, is still fraud.

 

I agree with Double Black... It was an error and has been corrected. You do have a point about the ethical value of ordering though... But think of it this way.... If you get undercharged for something, do you go back to the store and tell them and pay the difference? It boils down to that point. If a company gave a discount to someone that was not eligible, they will need to correct the issue. If they cancel the orders or audit them, then so be it. If not, then are you doing to go back and pay the difference for your consience? If so, you are a greater man then I. I am also the kind of person that thinks that the consumer shouldn't be penalized for a retailers mistake. If they make the mistake, they need to pay for it.

 

Yes, fraud without being caught is still fraud.
However, it depends on the severity of the fraudulence.

Identity theft is quite a more severe offense than the prospective student status theft.

Nevertheless, Lenovo only canceled orders which were made obvious by some people who have admitted to being unrelated towards Meyer. The rest were honored, and Lenovo proved to be quite valiant to honor them, regardless of losses.

 

I do. Once I thought I got undercharged for something, and went back and gave them a dollar...

 

If a company is lied to, and honored a discount, who is to be blamed, the person who lied, or the company that lost out on profits?

 

Not everyone is like you sorry.

 

So here is a good example that I thought of. A couple years ago here in the states, a gas attendant accidently changed the price of their gas to just a couple cents a gallon. By the end of the day the station was out of gas because word got out (the news did a story, word of mouth, etc...) that they were selling so cheap. Now was it bad of the people to fill up at that price? That is a matter of ethics. Was it wrong of the news and people to tell everyone? Meh, who doesn't like bragging rights (Capatilism at it's finest)? The only thing the company can really do is change the price back or make it so the consumer isn't getting free/discounted items, and then go after the person that made the mistake.

 

Unfortunately Henry, this world is not filled with people of virtue.
The majority of people would not perform the moral act if given the situation, vices will control our actions and morality would be nothing more than a minuscule irritation.

Why do we have to place blame? Can't we just admit that the action was wrong and let it drop? Would it make the world a better place by blaming the persons who lied or the company that lost out?
Blaming is a part of human nature, but if we are on the concept of morality, then by placing blame, aren't we advocating further unmoral actions?

 

As far as this site's policy, it should be covered in the Forum Rules. If you have a concern, you can report the post using the red and white triangle at the bottom of every user info box.

 

Then you are most likely a better man then most of us. If I get undercharged, then I shrugg it off as a much needed discount to marked up merchandize. Some companies do price mark ups as much as 400%! now who is the criminal? Think of this, is it wrong for someone to buy a popular gaming console and resale it at 10 times the price they paid for it just for the profit? I don't agree with it but who is going to stop them? There is nothing illegal against it. It is only a matter of ethics and no point in arguing it.

Now on this point, I would blame the person who lied. But it is the decision of the company on what action needs to be taken and how to stop it in the future. I like companies that ask for a school email and verify it that way. If the company hasn't figured out how to do that, then they need to or things like this are going to happen. There are horrible people every where in this world. If there weren't, we would have no need for an antivirus/spyware program. No war. No need for keys or locks or alarms.

Face it, you live in a damned world. I would worry about you and your family. Try your best to help others around you and let people know it is bad but if they don't listen, it is not on your head. At least you gave them the message

 

No, I don't run back and give five bucks back to a retailer that made a mistake -unless I happen to catch it right then and there at the counter. If the clerk's a supervisor or manager, maybe the good deed will be rewarded with a discount coupon. If not, at least the poor SOB won't get written up for being short in his drawer that day.
Yes, I'll go out of my way to give mail, a wallet, phone or anything else I find back to those to which they belong. You can argue ethics, degrees of ethical behavior, tolerances for such, and thresholds for them all you want. One man will ultimately wind up the "better man".

What I have a problem with is being warned for "bypassing the language filter" on a forum that allows punks to post about every conceivable way to screw Dell out of any penny they possibly can. For example, I just love to see posts go uncut from threads where the author suggests purposely spilling a beverage on a laptop covered by Complete Care at a strategic time in an effort to upgrade to a better model.
Lovely.

As far as I'm concerned, there's no difference between the type of people described there and the type of people described in the thread the OP was referring to.

 

Not to rain on the parade. I certainly don't care what methods people use to get deals, but prospective student to me (especially in the context of the Dell site) means that you are admitted and preparing to attend, but do not yet have an email account/you are not yet a full time student.

Merely having an interest or being an applicant does not make one a prospective student. By definition prospective means "likely to come about". Merely being an applicant hardly makes it likely that you will attend (unless Drake's admissions rates are like 80% haha).

That's what I think Dell means by prospective student. They may have a definition on their site though under the legal terms. Also when you order they make you restate your affiliation (or at least you are supposed to). I think Dell could make a solid case that it is fraud...especially for people who attend other universities/are older/are clearly in no way even close to being prospective students.

Is it any worse than people who use old student IDs to get into movies at a discount? It's pretty similar. I mean I don't think Dell would do more than just cancel the order...so play on I guess.

 

Its called transferring.

Doesn't matter, I was going to order from UW regardless. And I attend there, so I guess it wouldn't be unethical now, would it?

 

Wahhh, stop complaining dude...who cares.

 

The people who are all pissy are those that didn't get in on the deal...

 

Ok if you can demonstrate that you are in the process of transferring and have been accepted then fine you have an affiliation with the university. But if you can't it's probably a fraudulent purchase.

I don't care what you do...I'm just giving my opinion. I'm sure the end result will be that if people keep using such back doors, Dell will either require better proof of eligibility or shut down all of the education programs, or make them less lucrative. Apple used to have a much better program than they do now, and many of the manufacturers have stopped giving solid education discounts.

No one is going to sue you or stop you from ordering, but this thread is a question regarding whether it is fraudulent to misrepresent yourself for financial gain. Seems pretty obvious to me that it is. If you can get away with it more power to you. I don't care. Haha. I'm not hijacking the thread discussing getting the discount. I could care less what you do.

 

That might be how you'd feel, but not everyone's like you.

 

i did that once and the cashier looked at me like i was a dumbass

never again...

 

Actually, some of us that are " pissy" are family people twenty years past their college years who simply tired of having to pay outragious prices for things like Complete Care insurance that are inflated due to similar consumer fraud.

 

Can we ban him? It would be fun

 

Why?

By the way, based on this thread 's topic nature, it should be moved to the Site suggestion forum.

 

To HenryMan2008:

And getting the best deal possible is economics. People will do what they will do, be it ethical or not. It is very commendable of you to raise concerns about this matter, however you are not in a position to do much about it. It is Dell's (the merchant's) responsibility to reconcile the issues created due to "fraudulent" discounted purchases. They are still making a profit regardless. If their "Assets Protection" team or a similar function of their corporate office sees it necessary to take action they are more than empowered to do so. The fact is, if people are able to do this, then it means the validation that each customer meets the credentials for the discount is flawed, and needs to be upgraded. If it is worth it to Dell to devote the resources to such a restructuring of a program, then they will do it. If not, people will continue to do as they do. Keep in mind, we are a small bunch of the mainstream consumers who happen to use this forum. The majority of the people using the university discounts are entitled college students.

As for banning him, personally I think that proposition is rediculous. Morality seems to be the subject of this thread, and it seems, Onimun that you have very little. The level of ethics that HenryMan2008 holds himself to would do us all good. Take a note.

Again, I'm not trying to be hostile, but there's not much overall that any of us here can do. The ball is in Dell's court.

 

Because Baning is fun

Merely Joking

 

I stand corrected. You're right. I think a "prospective student" may refer to someone who has already applied. Because otherwise, anyone can say they are a "prospective student" and expliot the offer. Prospective students can be people accepted to the university, but not yet attending because it is still summer...