Fear Not Dell Owners! Nvidia Denies the Widespread Epidemic of 8400GS and 8600GT Overheating!

For those of you wholly concerned about the whole 8400GS and 8600GT defects that cause overheating and be faulty, and the feeling that it is very widespread, should not be too concerned as Nvidia assures.

Full Article

 

I'd have to say that the source is pretty biased. Of course nVidia doesn't want shareholders and buyers to know there is a problem, if there is a problem.

Until we get numbers from an unbias third party, I'll keep an open mind.

 

I think this means that they hope that most of the timebombs won't go off before the computer dies or is thrown away. "the problem depends on a combination of environmental conditions, configuration, and usage model". There will be a tendency, with time, for cooling systems to get clogged up and the chips run hotter and this may accelerate the decay.

Maybe The Inquirer is fairly extreme in its interpretation of the facts, but I have seen nothing to indicate that the problem is confined to production from a particular location between specified dates when certain material were used.

John

 

Is there any surefire way to know if you're affected?

 

yep just play a demanding gpu game at max settings (or close to) and see if your fps drops drasictally (cant spell) alot.

 

On Crysis (on all med settings +very high water shaders, +Low Postprocessing) the temps soar to just above 90 (I think I hit 93 once) after an hour+ but no fps drop. I have to stop playing for fear of damaging the card.

 

I'm not concerned. My 8600GT DDR2 (Vostro 1500) idles in the upper 40's, and has never gone higher than around 70c.

 

Here's the full article:

NVIDIA denies rumors of mass GPU failures
NVIDIA on Wednesday denied rumors that the majority of its GeForce 8M mobile graphics chips are flawed. The video hardware maker contradicts the earlier reports that all G84 and G86 video chipsets are more likely to fail and tells Ars Technica that only a subset of its graphics processing units (GPUs) are at increased risk, with just a "very small percentage" of that group likely to die early. When that happens depends entirely on the specific notebook and is more likely to happen with systems running intensive tasks or in warm climates, the company says.

The chip designer has already taken the steps of developing a software driver that downclocks affected chips to prevent them from overheating, and has made sure that none of its in-production chips suffer the same flaw. Desktop parts have never been affected, the copmany says.

NVIDIA's assertions haven't been corroborated elsewhere but potentially assuage worries that all of the affected chipsets would die early. The G84 and G86 platforms are used throughout much of the company's GeForce 8M series and are used in many mid- to upper-range notebooks, including those from Apple, Dell, HP, and other major PC builders.

 

So.... would you guys buy an M1530 now?

 

better question is would you guys buy an M1330 now?......

i still want a laptop in the same general price and specs as my m1330.... wont return

 

Anyone thinking about ordering a M1330 or M1530 right now might be better off waiting until their replacements are released with the 9 series cards. Like I said in another thread, peace of mind has value too.

 

Aside from graphics cards, there is greater peace of mind ordering now than later. The XPS M1530 and M1330 has been out for quite a while so they have already ironed out much of the problems with it and such.

The refreshes will be brand new, never before tested and you can bet there will be bios revisions, updates both in configuration and software, etc. The M1330 and M1530 have already gone through this Maturation process and as you can see, even now there are minor problems.

It really depends on how you think of it. Peace of mind may have mental value, but don't forget cost has the physical value.

 

That's the GDDR2 version.
The cards in the M1330 and M1530 have GDDR3.
Maybe the GDDR2 cards in the Vostros and Inspirons aren't affected.

 

Maybe, but I doubt the slower memory clocks would have much of an effect on a so-called bad GPU. FWIW, I searched the forums on Dell's support site, and couldn't find any unusual video failures on any of the current Dell systems, in the last year.

 

The GPU will downclock at about 100C. Its supposed to do that and not necessarily and indication that there's something wrong with your GPU.

 

So let's say my 8400 goes out.

From what I understand, Dell provides in home/office repair for any issues it can't resolve over the phone.

The question is, have those people who have had their GPU go out, and then repaired by Dell, had repeat problems?

From my perspective, if I plan to keep my m1330 for two, three years, and I have to have Dell send a tech out to repair the GPU and I'm down for a day or two, while I wouldn't be thrilled, I dont' think that would really keep me from having purchased my m1330.

So far (two plus months), I'm THRILLED with my laptop! It's quick, it's been dependable, programs launch fast, the palm rest stays cool-medium warm (no where near as hot as my previous HP, which would get uncomfortably hot)... it's been great!

Should I have passed on the dedicated card and gone for integrated so that I could have avoided the (possibility of) one or two days down?

No way. (Besides, my son would disown me if he couldn't play Team Fortress!)

Are we not blowing this a little out of proportion? If Dell can't fix it, or won't that's one thing. If they fix it in a timely manner, what's the big deal?

 

I hope this is true because my 2.6ghz 17" mbp runs around 49C-57C for everyday tasks that I do. I've seen it go highest at 70C but that's with 30+ apps and parallels running windows vista virtualization and watching a 1080p movie.

I used smc fan control to set the default fan speed 2000 is the default and now I set it to 4000 (still very quiet) and now when it used to be at 70C it runs around 55C, huge improvement.

But I might set it back to default at 2000 rpm because I'm kind of stress testing it I guess to see if it fails or how long it lasts. And my warranty ends in 3 years from this month so it'll be better if it dies because when the newer macbook pro is released they will just swap me with the newest model equal in value.

 

If your GPU goes out, you can't just get it "repaired". It is soldered onto your motherboard so you have to get a motherboard replacement. You will most likely not have repeat problems, and even if you somehow manage to do so, just contact Dell and tell them they made a mistake, and they'll help you out.

 

That's exactly why I got an M1530 now (delivered yesterday) knowing all the things that are coming around the corner. Peace of mind!

 

So is it better to buy a m1530 now??

 

What I wonder about is why this issue is surfacing a year after the 1330 was released? It seems like the problems surface pretty quickly so all the first 1330s did not have the problem, it seems. The problem is going to come if the card (or replacement card) fails out of warranty. Anyway, I hope whatever the problem is, that it does get resolved so that we can get back to talking about how to do new and wonderful things with our laptops instead of how they are failing !

 

One other thing to consider is this. I remember when Dell released the G84 and G86 cards last year and almost everyone over on the Dell support forums were raving about how they were such great overclockers. Everyone was running them at 600MHz+. A year later, there are little if any report of video card troubles over there. So IMO, I don't think Dell has any mass problems with their cards.

 

Well considering that I have a 3 year on site warranty, maybe I'll play crysis for a few weeks a few months before the end of warranty. New motherboard + video card ftw.

 

Funny, I've been debating that question for the past month. All I can say is that if I were to buy another Dell, I'd go for a 3 or 4 year warranty. It seems that all my problems with Dell laptops (i've had two Inspiron 8600's and an E1705) come when the laptop is just out of warranty; about 1 yr and 4 months)

Here is a list of problems I've had: LCD inverter died (part from Ebay), cooling fans on both 8600's died (Ebay parts), radeon 9600 died x 2 (one was warranty, the other I had to downgrade with a reconditioned part, FX5200), USB on 8600 died (warranty repair replaced motherboard), nvidia 7900gs vid memory fried.

I was looking for another laptop to replace the E1705 with the failed 7900gs and put in an order for a lenovo Y710 ideapad but had to return it cuz the video card it came with was a Ati HD2600 and not an Ati HD2600 XT. Otherwise a nice laptop but too slow really for gaming. Now I'm looking at a Sager NP8660 or NP5796 with 9800GT graphics.

 

I don't really care about the warranty. I just don't like the idea of getting a refurb unit and I expect that any problems I detect early on within the first 21 days of purchase and replace if necessary. If there are any other problems that come up, I expect myself to be able to fix it. If you think about it, in say 2 years time from your purchase or 3-4 years, you will probably drool over the newer models anyway and by 4 years, what ever was out in the 3rd year gets ridiculously cheap with good deals.

Technology changes rapidly, so what comes out in 3-4 years will most definitely outshine what we have now that would make it a worthy upgrade.

 

True, true. Unless of course you don't have $1500-2000 to spend on a new laptop every 3-4 years (assuming you wanted the latest and greatest). Warranties are like insurance policies, great when you need them but expensive if you don't. Some have more problems than others; I myself fall in the former category.

The price of the warranty would've more than made up for 1 out of warranty Geforce go 7900gs which goes for about $500 from Dell. Of course, that wasn't the only problem I had. Sigh...

 

Come on, I paid less than $1500 for my maxed out config laptop and it it still top of the line second only to Montevina. Sure 1500-2000+ if your an early adopter.

The way I think of it insurance policies are more for something lasting say, Medical insurance. It is important for your lifetime. Car, something that also lasts a very very long time.

Laptop is not as massive in lifespan and majority of problems can easily be fixed or covered without paying a ridiculous sum. 1 year of warranty is more than enough. Unless of course you are fine with refurbs and constantly watch dirty things on the internet trying to get as much spyware, malware, and adware as you can which would be crazy, disturbing, and disgusting.

 

You have to remember that different people use laptops for different reasons. Those who use business apps with a little bit of gaming would be better off getting those warranties now on the more expensive models ($1000+). With the speed of these dual cores there really isn't much of a difference between the next gen speed and today's speed for business apps. The thing slowing you down is your HD and you can always upgrade to an SSD.

Now if you are buying a machine primarily for gaming, 3d design, or photo editing, then sure maybe you'll want the newer tech. Though a desktop is always going to top and most likely be the primary machine for everything but gaming.

This is a case where warranties are great. Now if you are buying a $600 laptop, then you might as well take the money you saved by not getting the warranty and buy another $600 laptop when/if yours breaks.

 

Yep, that's true. Also don't forget that there's accidental damage insurance. Good for people with 11 month olds that like to pull on cords, climb on/pull out keyboard keys, scratch screens, and pour milk all over the pc (like me).

 

my 8600M GT just failed 4 months ago.

 

the problem obviously exists...

 

I bought one. Now I got M1330 and M1530 and they are a great pair.

 

Im not worried about mine. I game on the highest possible settings and havent went over 88C w/o a cooler. With my cooler i usually dont go over 72C or so. I also dont own a Dell, but HP was mentioned in the OP.

 

Mine is flawless considering it runs assasins creed on max settings and is still cool.

 

Why freak out? Isn't there a better heat sink / fan solution available for these laptops? I would take mine to the point of throttling down first, then try it with a laptop cooler and see if that cured the issue. There's a difference between poor design and defect after all.

 

I dont fear anything as my rig does not over heat or even come close after hours of gaming.

 

I can play COD 4 for hours on end and not heat up the GPU past 80c. After I get some arctic silver in the heat sync assembly, it will probably be cooler.

 

I can do without Arctic Silver. I don't think it's really necessary. If you do apply it, please show some pics of how you applied it and I would be very very happy. Perhaps do some benchmarking now and see if applying Arctic Silver actually helps.

The M1530 already has decent cooling, so I don't think the Arctic Silver is going to help all that much, but please prove me wrong.

 

If you guys think about good thermal grease I've got something better than Arctic that's Liquid Metal Pad. http://www.burnoutpc.com/modules/smartsection/item.php?itemid=245

I tested it and proved to be more efficient. Afetr aplying this the temperature dropped down by few degrees in one laptop it dropped down by 10 degrees. In that particular case I applied Liquid Metal on a CPU and the 17W/mk heat pads from these guys http://www.mxm-upgrade.com/store.html on a GPU.

Btw. I own XPS 1530 T9300 2.5gh, 8600GT,320GB Toshiba and HW monitor shows at idle:
CPU 52C, GPU 58C, HDD 41C, then while gaming CPU 66C, GPU 67C and I personallz cannot see any overheating,
I got mine on 1st June. I'm not going to update to A09 as it seems pointless. What do you guys think?

 

Did you do any serious gaming?

I was a frequent to this forum a year ago when I bought my 1520, and now i'm back because of this nvidia fiasco.

 

Does anyone know what year of manufacture of the chips involved?

 

I'm assuming theyd have to be fairly recently just because it would be stupid of them to not notice this problem until after a year. Its like releasing Montevina or the 9xxx series cards just to say after a year later that there was a manufacturing defect for the whole line.

 

HP actually released a similar type BIOS, 4 months ago for the 7xxx & 8xxx nvidia models. They must have seen the higher 'than usual' failure rates.

I believe i have already been hit by this, my go 7200 crapped out one morning, it was fine the night i shut it down. No OC and temps were in a safe range.

I dont know about you but ive noticed the high gpu failure rates since last year. I thought it was normal because this forum is where all problems go.

 

Go 7200... isn't part of G86 or G84...

 

Have you also noticed the number of people who seem to be able to get a very high overclock on their notebooks. Maybe thats why so many are reported to be failing.

 

i don't think so. i play FEAR, oblivion, bioshock and the witcher. i let the application decided on the settings.

 

Once again, this issue has nothing to do with heat causing an immediate failure. This is a reliability issue...so yes you can heat your laptop up high enough to fry eggs and it could still chug along for a year or so. The problem is that at some point in the FUTURE these GPU's fail or could fail, Nvidia is not telling anyone which chips are affected. (as i think its all of them) They have known about this for some time as HP applied a similar bandaid months ago..Some of you don't see why Nvidia wants to hide this or claim ignorance for as long as possible...it enables them to spread the financial hit over time as opposed to an admission creating huge loss to shareholders/stock and even relationships with Dell and others. Its not them being "stupid to not notice" they are saving their business! It doesnt do us any good, but thats the way the game is played. They will continue to play the piano until the ship (Titanic) sinks, and then tell us the water really isnt that cold.

Why in the world would ANYONE buy a 1530 or 1330 or similar now knowing that these GPU's may be faulty?

And why is it that FORTE keeps insisting on spreading the 'good' news with titles like this? I find it strange that every chance given he/she seems to be contributing to pump up the good name of Nvidia by telling us that all is well in wonderland? What gives? My bias is that I own one of these laptops and want to be sure my interest is protected...

 

I agree with you. I had an M1530 on order hoping that Nvidia or Dell would come clean and and maybe there was some hope that some of the 84/86 chips had been fixed during production but neither would issue an official statement and would rather drag the whole fiasco out. How can anyone enjoy their laptop with the paranoia that your $1000+ laptop you bought could possibly fail after the warranty period.

I too believe it is all the chips and in the SEC filing Nvidia even states a significant amount of chips are affected.

 

If you have an extended warranty you should be fine, nothin to worry about.

 

I suppose people who don't keep their laptops any longer than the warranty, and don't mind being without their laptop while it's being repaired, wouldn't care.

Is the M1730 affected? The 8700M card is codename G84M, like the 8600M.
But the 8800M is codename G92M.
(source here --> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/GeForce_8_Series )

The M1730 isn't on Dell's list of BIOS updates. But it has much better cooling than the thinner laptops to start with. So maybe it didn't get a BIOS update because its cooling is already optimized.