Fear Not Dell Owners! Nvidia Denies the Widespread Epidemic of 8400GS and 8600GT Overheating!

Hey flipfire, check this out, you may be eligible for free repair...
http://h10025.www1.hp.com/ewfrf/wc/document?docname=c01087277&lc=en&cc=us&dlc=en&product=1842189

 

And if my laptop only came with a 1 year warranty? 1 year is plenty for me because I know how to take care of a laptop ( my last one is still running strong after 6 years of constant use)

Bleh, I find it almost insulting that Dell sent me mail today encouraging me to spend $279 to increase the duration of my warranty when my base laptop was under $1000 by itself. Sad thing is now I have to seriously contemplate it.

 

Well, that's how they make their money. Selling you a $1000 laptop, they probably only get $100 profit; but selling you a $300 warranty, they probably expect to get $200-$250 profit (it starts from $300 dollar profit and goes down as you actually request repair). Post-warranty repairs? Probably 90% of what they charge you will be profit. Why do you think they give you a BIOS band-aid?

 

I personally think that laptops "should" at least go without any major problems until they become obsolete. Of course that's relative but 3-4 years ought to be reasonable. Hey even my old pentium III twinhead that's 8+ years is going strong! No gfx card probs, no lcd inverter replacements, cdrom works just fine. Although the Li-Ion battery quit a long time ago, it still works on AC...

Gaming or no gaming, pc manufacturers should engineer them better (like they used to). Of course if the engineers had it their way, they would last a lifetime; but leave up to the management to cut corners and put out a product that is lacking for the consumer but a money maker for them. Think about it, what incentive would they have to make a laptop that lasted forever? You wouldn't need to sell those expensive warranties. And have you noticed that the max warranties are for 4 years and even then, they go for a premium too. It's all a conspiracy!

 

This is an example where things gets blown up out of proportion. If the GPUs are defective then there would've been a mass failure rate already. The thing is even nVidia doesn't know how many were produced and implemented. I've read somewhere that this problem started way back in November. Some GPU dies were affected but not all. Dell and others should offer extended warranties on the GPUs and deal with them on a case by case basis if they do stop functioning. Replacing the GPUs en masse without symptoms is overkill. And if Dell does replace them they have to raise the price somewhere to recoup the loss. In the end, nothing is free. The cost is passed on to future customers.

 

If you haven't noticed, there are mass failures going on everywhere. Even with HP who used these GPUs and are now offering to repair them for free and extending their warranty to 2 years. http://h10025.www1.hp.com/ewfrf/wc/...9&dlc=en&docname=c01087277#c01087277_identify

 

Weird, I was playing Tiger Woods 2004 on my Vostro 1500 for about 45 minutes with maxed graphics settings and my 8400 GS hovered around 51c.

 

I personally have had 3 video card burn-outs, 2 mobile ATI radeon 9600's in an Inspiron 8600 as well as an Nvidia geforce go 7900gs in an E1705. Needless to say the 2nd ATI and the Nvidia were both kaput shortly after the warranty period of 1 year was over. I really doubt that there is a defect in the CPU itself. It probably has to do with the cooling; both hardware as well as software (BIOS thermal fan profiles) implementations. And in all three cases the video memory became corrupt.

That's why I'm not surprised that there are reports of 8400/8600's overheating in certain laptop models. Has anyone done research on how widespread the problem is with MacBook Pro models that have the 8600GT? I have seen some complaints too regarding the 86xx nvidia chips in HP laptops.

Also, I'm doing quite a bit of research on whether or not there have been overheating probs with 7x00/8*00 series nvidia gfx cards in Sager/Clevo notebooks. It seems that so far there have been a low number but that is probably due to better cooling. I have seen quite a lot of complaints regarding fan noise as well as fan cycling in those models.

 

My go 7200 died out one morning but i could revive it here and there

All i had to do was purposely overheat the notebook prior to starting up

Read this from early this year when my GPU died out on me within 6months

I said that over 6 months ago.

 

That's really funny, cuz I have the same problem with powering on my E1705! I didn't realize it may be due to the video card. Sometimes when I go to turn on the laptop (from a cold start) everything would turn on except the screen. Also the hard drive would spin up but that's all; no hd activity lights go on, just power and battery (charge). However, if I put the laptop in front of a heater vent for about 3-5 mins then try to turn it on, it works! But this only happens when running on battery, if I use the AC adapter, it would boot up no matter what the temp is.

Or maybe it's the battery? I do recall that Li-Ion battery performance can be based on temperature (cooler is bad). Flipfire, is that similar to what you experienced?

 

I've had heat probs with my Vostro 1500 since the day I got it. After hearing about the 8600M GT issue when Dell announced it (the very same day my warranty expired!!!), I installed CPUID Hardware Monitor a few days ago. WITH a dual fan cooling pad, these are my temps (and consistent with the chassis' radiant heat since day 1), in celcius, current/min/max:

cpu 0: 59/50/93
cpu 1: 60/54/92
gpu: 52/44/85

Mind you, this is ALSO since I installed their bandaid bios "fix." I can't believe this thing hasn't fried (or started a fire!!!). Warranty or not, they ought to replace this clearly defective machine!

 

Well, in your case, its just a plain defect. Your processor shouldnt have been affected by your GPU temps. Your system was really problematic and thats why I keep telliong everyone if you discover ANY problem from day 1, get a replacement.

It really is your fault for not doing so. I don't get why people like you come across a problem since Day 1 and decide to deal with the problem and wait till the day your warranty expires, or after your 21 day return period to complain how they should give you a replacement for high temps, heat problems, etc...

You have to admit, what your wanting to do now is too late and you have the responsibility of requesting a replacement right when the problem occurs.

 

People like you? Lady, I checked all the forums and user opinions, and it was almost universal that these machines ran hot. Most people (myself included) don't run programs to check their temps and then research proper operating temperatures. I didn't do it until I did research on heat problems caused by the specific 8600M GT defect WHICH WAS ONLY ANNOUNCED BY DELL LAST WEEK! Do a search here on the Vostro 1500 and look at all the year old posts complaining that the chassis was hot to the touch. Lay off the condescension, will ya?

 

Yeah, people like me. Its really not universal that these machines ran hot. There are many people who say there is heat underneath near the front because the Wifi card does get hot, but... nothing to get your CPU running up to 90+ degrees and if there is, it usually is some sort of defect that a replacement can fix.

I never run those programs either until only recently, which temps are really nowhere near as high as yours, and let me tell you this. The first time I got my M1530, it didnt have a heat issue, but there were a LOT of problems with it:

1- The base was unlevel and wobbled on a flat surface
2- The RAM cover wasn't screwed on properly and it literally exposed all the RAM.
3- The keyboard had a very large bump
4- Disc drive was louder than usual.
5- The computer gave me a BSOD at the first startup then ran fine.

Instead of just dealing with it, I called them up the second day after I received my notebook and requested a replacement which has none of those problems whatsoever.

My point is, if you had felt in the first place your notebook felt very hot in the beginning or if you had any suspicion or doubt, you should have called in for a replacement just to compare or even checked temps then to make sure if the heat really felt normal or not. You shouldnt just think that all the M1530's are hot and just decide to live with it just to later to check temps the day your warranty expires. Its too late for that.

 

1- The base was unlevel and wobbled on a flat surface
2- The RAM cover wasn't screwed on properly and it literally exposed all the RAM.
3- The keyboard had a very large bump
4- Disc drive was louder than usual.
5- The computer gave me a BSOD at the first startup then ran fine.

And this compares to the top of your laptop being hot just how??? I've returned laptops for having a soft keyboard, for Gods' sake.

Ok, enough. I've found a 20 year old that seems to know everything and is insistent on lecturing me about it. Lucky me. Then again, perhaps I should take advantage of my good fortune and inquire of you as to what investments would be best for me if I'd like to retire in 10 years?

 

Sorry, I don't mean to be condescending or offensive. You can make any investments you want with your good fortune. Just remember if you suspect anything if you make a laptop purchase from Dell next time, get a replacement just to be on the safe side.

Remember if you get a replacement, you get to hang onto your old one until the new one arrives so you can actually test out both side by side. They pay for the shipping and return shipping of the old unit too.

Obviously you don't have to do that even since you are familiar with temperature checking problems. In the end, its all up to you. So I don't have any influence on you at all. See? ^_^

 

Its hard to blame NVIDIA entirely when you consider the fact that these cards are placed in poorly ventilated laptops with weak fans and/or no separate fan and vent just for the video card Nvidia may be correct as the heat issue is very much related to the chassis you put the card in, most all laptops are poorly ventilated and cooled since everyone is more interested in silent laptops and blingy laptops. This may merely be symptom of a much larger form not following good function issue.

 

Guys, just wait till Aug 12 when Nvidia announce the second quarter results. They should be including more information about this whole mess.

 

just got my 8600m gt replaced for being faulty on my 1520

 

Can I return mine within the 21 days after getting it without having to pay a restocking fee or whatever? 15% is really high...

 

Yes, I believe you can (well at least it was for my RMA'd Lenovo which genuinely had a problem). As long as you don't tell them that you want to return it because you don't like it or you just don't want it. Find a problem with it or something that was Dell's error and you'll be fine. Having it run too hot on the bottom is a good one. Or perhaps a dead pixel? Just make sure that the restocking fee is waived when you get your RMA and before you send it back.

Also a quick call to Tech Support to establish a case # (for the problem) would be a good idea (then the RMA rep could reference that # to justify your waived fee). Of course they'll want you to go thru the return/repair channel but don't do that. Just tell them that if you're not able to fix the prob over the phone then you'll return it cuz it's still within 21 days.

 

The only problem it has is that it gives me this message:

"The AC power adapter wattage and type cannot be determined.
The battery may not charge.
The system will adjust the performance to match the power available.

Please connect a Dell 65W AC adapter or greater for best system performance.

To resolve this issue, try to reseat the power adapter

Strike the F3 key (before the F1 or F2 key) if you do not want to see power warning messages again.

Strike the F1 key to continue, F2 to run the setup utility. Press F5 to un onboard diagnostics. "

Whenever I start it up.

 

That problem also happens intermittently on my Vostro 1500. The most likely cause is a motherboard issue.

Here's the easy fix. When you get that message again just unplug the AC adapter from either the wall or the back of the unit. Press F1 to continue or you can go into your BIOS F2 and look at Battery Performance. You'll notice it says 65W AC Adapter ! Now unplug the adapter and put it back. You'll see the screen change from 65W to 90W.

I think it's more of a firmware issue and I mentioned it to Dell. I wish they would look into this. My Vostro 1700 doesn't have this problem. It's really hit and miss.

 

Actually mine says that the AC adapter is an unknown device in the BIOS. *EDIT* I plugged it into a different outlet and a surge protector and the BIOS detects it now...

 

Have you tried unplugging the adapter while in the BIOS and then reconnecting it to see if the "unknown status" changes?

If so I would call Dell and request a new adapter.

 

Yeah, in the BIOS it says it detects a 90w adapter.

 

"only a very small percentage of the notebook chips that have shipped" and that "the problem depends on a combination of environmental conditions, configuration, and usage model."

Read between the lines people. This means...

ALL models are possibly affected UNLESS you run them in a certain condition, configuration and 'usage model'

This is just a sly way of denying something that exists. Apparently people fall for this crap.

 

Damn... i ordered an m1530 on 21/7/08 and its in the building stage... called them and told me that dell engineers has solved the issue and that the bios update its just prevention, and that the problem is fixed and thats the reason why they still shipping system with those video cards.... i guess i'll wait for my system, and, i have 2 year warrantly... i'll stress the hell out of the graphics card by the second i get it.... and then shut it down... to see about the heating ciclying thing... but well... 3 operators assured me that the problem is solved... ''We cant take the risk of shipping one of our premium xps laptops with defective video cards, besides, nvidia is of the best brands in this market'' fuc**** sales person... i hope they are right.... and to be honest... there's some complaining on the video cards failing... but its not a disaster that everyone its on the streets with their 8600m GT's fried... and they have a year on the market.... so let see how things goes... also told me that 2 years warrantly it's international... anyone knows if this is true? or just to avoid i cancel the order, cause i told them i was taking the system to another country o0...!

 

I don't see how Dell engineers can "fix" this problem, considering that it arises from a manufacturing defect on Nvidia's part.

 

lmao

new dye, new material who knows.

 

i dont know either.. maybe something hooked with de motherboard, a better soldered part.... i dont know... but they asured me... that... and frankly,... i dont think dell is covering up a mess like this... i mean they told me: the faulty chips are nvidia company but in front of all we are dell and people with our systems are not going to intel, nvidia, or maxtor, they are coming to us and we are not selling laptops with bad components... so... they really have a lot of time in the laptop business, and are aware that the responsability is theirs, they are not so dumb to sell and keep selling this massive mess ... the thing could ruin them if its true... and so nvidia... they have a lot of time engineering graphics card... so lets hope the best...

 

Lol, salespeople know a lot about selling products but most don't know jack about the technical side.

Recently, I put in an order for a Lenovo Y710 which was advertised on their website as having an ATI Radeon HD 2600XT but I noticed some documentation that said it came with a regular HD 2600. So I called them and the sales rep told me that the web specs were accurate and that they had updated their specifications.

When I got the machine, I checked and it came with a HD2600! Needless to say I was disappointed. I even checked the device ID with tech support and the guy verified it too (as well as the core clock being 500MHz vs. 700 on the XT version). He even told me that I should return the machine (since it was within 21 days) since they don't even have an HD2600XT card to swap in even if I wanted to with a warranty "repair".

So it doesn't surprise me that the Dell sales rep told you that they fixed the problem. They'll tell you anything you want to hear just to sell you a laptop! What usually winds up happening is that your pc works fine during the warranty period and even if there were problems, they're fine with warranty repairs; but if you are out of warranty, they'll charge you double what the item is worth.

Talk about a huge hassle...

 

Why would Dell keep selling the faulty chips? Because they have no choice! What should they do with their current line up? Stop selling laptops?!! THat would ruin their bottom line. SO, they keep on pushing the faulty chips out hoping to deal with the issue as each customer has an issue, hopefully out of warranty, a few years from now when they can just say "sorry, out of warranty, never heard of any faulty Nvidia chips, have a nice day"

I for one would not be buying these Nvidia GPU's until there is a definitive statement from Dell saying "all new chips are free from the fault" Until that or a statement saying "we will give all customers lifetime warranty on GPU's" I won't buy any of them. Buy at your own risk. If talking to a Dell rep in India or elsewhere telling you all is just fine, and that makes you feel good about the purchase, great, but don' be a fool and belive it.

 

Yeah, I agree with that. So far no proof on any fix beside the bios update to reduce the overall laptop temperature. Which of course did not change a thing about the faulty GPU...

 

Nvidia is probably staying silent hoping that everyone will simply just "move on" and no longer care about it. Though I sure hope thats not what they are thinking.

 

Well I hope everyone looking to buy a dell on this forum reads this and decides against it until dell fixes their problem with their laptops.

 

More reasons to make sure that every part you stick in a laptop is MODULAR. If you could swap cards as easily as you could hard drives, everyone would be able to walk away from the issue rather than sit in fear and pray for a better warranty / patch / part to come out.

Of course, that might give a little more power to the end user . . . proprietary = profit. (dramatic exit)

 

But with the chip soldered directly onto the motherboard, you save a lot more room than using a MXM board.

 

So what? If you start to design form factors with a separate GPU in mind, you will find ways to make it work. Or, just offer modular in the comps that have the extra size to work with. I don't know about a lot of you guys, but I would take a little extra bulk or weight for the security of knowing that my graphics were upgradable. Its the single most important upgrade that you can make if you ever want to game in the next year or two to come.

 

http://www.engadget.com/2008/08/18/dell-offers-1-year-limited-warranty-enhancement-for-nvidia-gpu-i/

DELL WILL BE EXTENDING WARRANTY BY ONE YEAR!!!!

 

1 year, big deal. Most will fail after year 2 or 3, Dell is hedging their bets that they are going to get out of this without much cost. Why they are not just passing this on to Nvidia and saying they will take care of the problem for the life of the notebook is just weak. All dell is doing is trying to sweep this under the rug as in 2-4 years out nobody will be writing about this and the individual talking to customer support in India will be left out in the cold. THIS IS NOT A GOOD SOLUTION FOLKS! YOU SHOULD BE OUTRAGED!

 

Because the OEM's including Dell have already admitted nominal cooling in some of their designs are contributing to the problem and agreed to pick up half the bill because of that fact.

 

Too bad my Inspiron E1705 with 7900gs isn't on the list.

 

I have been keeping an eye on this and I am outraged by this.

Dell and Nvidia have both tried pulling the wool over our eyes by offering a 1 year extended warranty, which is garbage on machines that cost thousands.

So what happens if Mine our Yours Craps out 1 week after, will you be ok with this when an indian call centre is saying to you too bad its passed the warranty.

I think people need to start demanding their money back is Dell or Nvidia will not reslease the exact chips and models that are broken so we know for sure. or send over an engineer to look and see if its dodgy.

I for one am not happy with this 1 year warranty and for me I will be demanding my money back if they cannot tell me if mine is broken or not, as I cannot afford to spend £800.00=1600.00 every two years on a new laptop.

If they dont give me my money back, I will threaten legal action until they tell me wether my chip is broken or not.

I will take this to small claims court, which in the UK only costs £30.00 so not much.

We all need to take a stand and not listen to DELL AND NVIDIA BULL SH%T LIES.

 

The problem is not just a dell problem so go ahead and try to get your money back. Whats so bad about an extended warranty? Usually with dell if your machine breaks and you need a new one and yours is discontinued you get the next best one as a replacement. Whats so bad about that?

Most of the blame goes to nvidia since other companies are having the same problem. Not just dell. Atleast dell is blogging about it and letting you know whats happening.

 

It doesnt matter if other companies are involved, it doesnt matter if its Nvidias fault, it doesnt matter if I have a 1 year warranty. What does matter is that Dell, who I bought the machine from, makes sure I have a working laptop, whether I have a warranty or not should the GPU fail DUE TO A KNOWN DEFECT, not normal wear and usage.

This nonsense "At least Dell is blogging" is irrelavant. Why? Because since the others arent blogging I should lay down and just be happy with a 1 year warranty? Heck no! They are testing the waters with this 1 year option to see how it flies, if the masses just roll over and accept it like wimps, they have saved themselves a boatload of $$. man up people.

 

Hi everyone...This is my 1st post here, and I have a recent Vostro 1400 with the 8400GS Nvidia GPU. It runs at 50C and I never really play any 3D games so it doesn't overheat.
Now my question is: If I keep it this way and make sure that the temp stays within 50-55C, will it still fail in a year or two? Or is the failure of the chip directly related to the overheating?

Thanks.

 

According to the best information that I have gotten, a temperature under 70 centigrade will not damage the defective soldering point.

So . . . I would say no. But if you just bought the machine you should tell them about this defect and send the computer back.

 

Its not the temperature itself that will result in the card failing... and its not that once the temp crosses 70 or 75, the card will immediately fail.

This issue is more concerned with the cool-hot-cool cycles the card goes through... At the moment, I would say, 50-55 is a nice and prefectly normal temperature and just enjoy your system as long as its fine..

When and if the card fails, you will see symptoms as listed in the direct2dell blog for example,

, then contact Dell and they will replace it for you, under the limited warranty extension they have for this GPU issue.

 

Is there a correct method for getting the temp on the Vostro 1400 other than taping a thermometer to the bottom of the unit? Also since the temp changes are the problem what is the best range of temps? Sorry for such basic questions but I need to know....Thanx