Firewire issue affecting all the Dell Core Duo notebooks

UPDATE I: I confirm that T.C. Electronic Konnekt sound cards work with the built-in firewire port of Dell laptops, but make sure not to use it with I8KFanGUI (a third-party fan control software).

UPDATE II: Possible solution; Disable the CD/DVD drive from the device manager (right click on My Computer --> Hardware --> Device Manager)

Hi all,

I didn't want to create a chaos so I'm letting you know the issue a little bit late. Also if you don't use the Firewire port of your core duo laptop you don't have to read the rest of the post.

I got my M90 in May for music production purposes and I wanted to use it with my M-Audio Firewire Audiophile sound card. So when I received the laptop I installed the sound card and Bang! The sound card would freeze after 4-5 minutes of playing MP3s and it would freeze after 4-5 seconds of recording.

So I called M-Audio. They blamed Dell and their firewire chipset and suggested to use a PCMCIA / Expresscard firewire device. I ordered the SIIG Firewire 2-port Expresscard and it took the retailer over one month to send it to me. When I received the Expresscard I realized that not only the computer won't boot up with the Expresscard plug-ed in, my external sound card won't even work for the 4-5 seconds that it would with the built-in 1394 port.

I then called Dell, and told them I'm experiecing any of these problems with my friends Inspiron 630m and my previous Inspiron 5150. The support guy suggested a Motherboard and Expresscard reader exchange and it took the technician / parts over 3 weeks to come to my place. Please keep in mind that I have the Next Day Onsite Complete Care warranty!

Anyways, the new parts didn't help and for the second time we went through the stupid 'Is the Firewire cable pluged-in?!' procedure!

Finally, on July the 5th (exactly two months after I found the problem) my case was escalated to the Dell Server and Workstation Escalation department and not surprisingly we had to got through the stupid troubleshooting procedure for the 3rd time! (have you the latest drivers installed?! ) Finally I suggested the escalation analyst to send me an airbill so I can send him my sound card and Expresscard for them to test. Again I waited over 3 weeks for him to find a way to send an airbill from US to Canada (not his fault, crappy Dell management). At last I got so frustrated that sent him my devices on my own cost! ($70) He promised me a compensation package though.

At last on July 26th he confirmed the issue and said it's not exclusive to M90 but all the laptops with the 945 chipset, and not just my sound card but pretty much everything he pluged-in the firewire port (Hard dirve, Camera etc.). Still I prefered not to return the laptop (during the whole 3 months I was always seconds from giving up and either killing myself or returing the laptop and then killing myself!) and asked him to escalate the issue to the engineering department and see if there is a possible fix and if so, when.

And today, almost a month later that day, he called me and said that there is a BIOS update in tesing that hopefully will fix the issue. He said that it should be released in a couple of weeks.

Overall, I'm really satisfied with the people I had to deal with, but not the system and the company. The two support guys that I dealt with did everything the could, and they were as frustrated as me by the roadblocks. It seems that Dell hadn't thought through the 'Next Day Onsite' support before selling it, and they never think that there is a problem with their product!

Sam

UPDATE I: I confirm that T.C. Electronic Konnekt sound cards work with the built-in firewire port of Dell laptops, but make sure not to use it with I8KFanGUI (a third-party fan control software).

UPDATE II: Possible solution; Disable the CD/DVD drive from the device manager (right click on the My Computer icon --> Hardware)

 

Well sorry to hear about the stuff you had to go through, and how much time it took. I was surprised that it took 3 weeks for that technician and stuff.

Hope the new bios fixes it for you, I hope you update this thread when it comes out, i'd like to see the outcome.

 

Thanks. I will update the thread as soon as I hear from Dell.

Sam

 

I have the same issue with the expresscard on my E1505.
However I do not share the same firewire problem you have. I use Presonus Firebox and it's working like a dream with my built-in firewire port.(Doesn't work at all through a firewire expansion card).
I believe M-audio drivers only work with Texas Instruments chipset. One fast and cheap solution might be Ideal Driver by CEntrance;
http://www.centrance.com/products/
I use it for my Firebox and it's super stable.
Also make sure you don't have Dell Wireless Card and I8kFangui. They cause audio dropouts.

 

Well, that's good to hear. I guess Ideal Driver doesn't support Firewire Audiophile, in the list of compatible hardwares it only mentions Firewire Solo.

Yeah, I bought the SIIG expresscard for it's TI chipset but as you have experienced it's much worse!

I use both Dell Wireless card and I8kfangui, but they are causing the problem. I got the same behaviour on fresh install of XP too.

 

Oops sorry about that...
I should of checked the compability list before recommending.

One thing I think I should mention though, is that the expresscard problem does not seem to be an isolated problem on Dell Laptops. I tested it with my friend's A105 and DV8000t and neither of them had a success with Firewire Expresscard(Tv Tuner and SATA2 expresscards work great). It seems like there is a problem with pci express technology+Napa Platform+Firewire. I also bought firewire expresscard by xterasys and the result was the same.

 

Yeah, there is something really wrong with the firewire section of these laptops and I'm almost positive that it's in the driver level. I once installed the M-Audio sound card without installing the chipset drivers of M90 and in worked like a charm, but just for a couple of hours! I haven't been able to reproduce that since.

By the way, I have tried the Edirol FA-66 and it's much worse than the M-Audio one.

I just hope that the new BIOS fixes something. Either the expresscard or the built-in firewire port. I just need one firewire port.

Sam

 

What about getting the docking station from Ebay?
It has a low profile PCI slot so you can add an expansion card there.
It will cost you like $80 for the docking station and 30 bucks for a nice firewire card.

 

That's a pretty good idea, if the firewire works though! and I can get those from Dell for free (as part of the compensation package). But I still hope that the BIOS update solves the problem.

By the way, if you don't need that much I/O, give the Asio4All a shot. I found it a couple of days ago and it's pretty amazing. (It adds low latency Asio driver to your laptop without any hardwares).

Sam

 

Prolly should use an Apple laptop... Firewire works great on them.

 

I'm seeing a similar issue with my e1705 and a Behringer FCA202. Asio drivers just will not work with this configuration - I get constant drop outs and weird glitches. WDM/DX configs seem to work a little better when set to high latencies, but they I still get dropouts there, too.

Actually, I even get dropouts in winamp.

It also happens with asio4all, so I'm pretty sure we're looking at a problem with the 1394 implementation itself.

Hopefully there's a software fix for this...

 

Yep, drop out in winamp! It's ridiculous. The fix is scheduled for the first half of september, but I'm not holding my breath.

Asio4all works by itself flawlessly (with sigmatel sound card) but when you use it with a firewire device, you'll get the same drop outs.

 

Hello Sam and others,
I'm glad I found this thread, beacause I'm in a situation similar to yours. I also own a duo core with intel 945 chipset, not Dell though but a Zepto (company in Denmark), and I have trouble making my m-audio 410 work with the laptop. I get frequent dropouts when using Cubase, Reason and other audio applications, which I don't get using the inbuilt Realtek soundcard. And the m-audio works on other laptops. It seems many people have a laptop firewire issue, but it's hard to pinpint exactly what the problem is and no company likes to admit that it's their equipmnt.

I suggested to Zepto that the 945 chipset (the driver or whatever) migt be the problem referring to this thread, and now I'm waiting for their reply. But did they tell you that the firewire issue regards all the 945 chipset laptops or only Dells own?

Good luck with your music and equipment. Sometimes computers are just a pain in the ass!! I should go back to good old guitar strings.

 

I think Zepto laptops are built on Asus or/and Compal and the latest Compals have VIA for firewire controller according to a member in Compal forum. M-audio firewire cards and few other audio/music production firewire devices don't work on anything but Texas Instruments firewire controller.

Edit; If you haven't tried this tweak it might solve your problem(From Presonus.com so ignore #1);

Q: I have a PC computer and am getting clicks/pops/drop outs in playback. What can I do?
A: These issues are often common at first. There are a few settings to adjust to smooth out the audio performance.

1. Right click on your FireBox icon in your system tray just to the left of the time. Set the CPU setting to HIGH. If HIGH setting does not improve performance, try LOW.

2. Right click on your My Computer icon and select Properties. Click the Advanced tab, click the Settings button under Performance, click Advanced tab, then set to Background Services under Processor Scheduling.

3. Click Start menu, Control Panel and double click into Network Connections. If you have a Wireless Network Connection, right click and 'disable' this while you are running the FireBox.

4. Within Cubase, click Devices menu, select Device Setup, and select VST MULTITRACK. There you have "number of disk buffers", set this to 12. "disk buffer size", set this to 128 or 256. Click "APPLY". Also make sure you are set to the Presonus ASIO FireBox driver. Then click the 'Expert' button and set "audio priority" to VERY HIGH and uncheck "multi processing" if applicable. You may also want to increase any related settings within other recording software.

5. If you have Service Pack 2 installed:
a. Click Start menu > Control Panel > Windows Firewall. Click the Advanced tab and deselect the 1394 Connection. Click OK.
b. Visit this link, then download & install the recommended patch: http://support.microsoft.com/kb/885222

6. Lastly, right click on My Computer icon, select Properties, click Hardware tab, and then click the Device Manager button. In here, extend the IDE ATA/ATAPI Controllers. Double click on the Primary and Secondary IDE Channels and click Advanced Settings tab. Here you will see Device 0 and Device 1. You'll see "Transfer Mode" (which is usually set to DMA if available) and you will see "Current Transfer Mode". Current Transfer needs to be set to UDMA (Ultra DMA) mode. If either Device on the Primary or Secondary Channels are set to PIO mode, this could be your problem. PIO mode is an older legacy and slower transfer mode for older drives. If either is set to PIO mode, first make sure the "Transfer Mode" is set to "DMA if available". You can change PIO modes by either entering BIOS and setting the IDE Controllers to'Auto', the Current Transfer Mode should change. If not, in the Device Manager, as long as the "Transfer Mode" is set to DMA if available, you can right click on the Primary/Secondary IDE Channel listed and 'uninstall' it. Once 'uninstalled', reboot your computer and it will refresh. NOTE: Entering your computer's BIOS is specific to your computer. Check your computer's manuals and documentation on how to do so. If you have a device set to "PIO mode" and you are uncomfortable with changing these settings, find someone who is or contact Technical Support so that they may assist you.

 

I had done all that except for the SP2-fix for 1394. Now I downloaded and installed this fix and it didn't do it for me. But I'm not sure if I'm supposed to do more than just run the fix. In the instructions it says:
"After you install this update, if you add a host controller for a new 1394 device to your computer, you must add or modify the SidSpeed entry in the Windows registry for the new 1394 host controller."
As far as I understand, you should change the "SidSpeed entry" only if you install a new 1394 host cotroller. Is that right, and does this mean that if I choose to get a firewire-extension card I must modify this value?
Thanx a lot for the help

 

I found my 1394-controller in the windows registry, I added a SidSpeed entry, I tried with values 2 (for speed 400) and 3 (for 400/800). And neither is making things any better, or worse.
****! It just gave me a glimpse of hope there, but no, of course the torture continues...

 

If this fix doesn't work it's your firewire controller.
What is used on your laptop(Go to Device Manager and look for IEEE 1394 Bus Host Controller)?
If it's not Texas Instruments you can't really blame Zepto....
I know it's freakin' frustrating but that is how it is....

 

I tried the SP2 fix a couple of weeks ago and it didn't help. It's mainly for fixing the 1394b problem not 1394a.

The chipset compatibility just makes things worse. There are many people complaining about the same drop outs (in a much less extent) with non core duo dell laptops (I6000, I9300), although using a PCMCIA or Expresscard firewire port solves their problem. With the core duo notebooks the Expresscard firewire port doesn't work at all!

I hope that Dell fixes both problems, not just the built-in port or the Expresscard issue.

 

My firewire controller is a "Texas Instrument" and it's a 1394a. And the drivers are Microsoft, if that means anything. I haven't tried using an expresscard yet, it might work for me, i hope. I'm just waiting to get one.

 

That's a real big problem.
If it doesn't work with TI that means FW410 might not work at all with Intel 945GM chipset.

Did you already order an expansion card?
Please don't purchase SIIG and Exterasys because they don't work on intel 945GM chipset.

 

I didn't order an expansion card yet, but I did find out that the FW410 works allright with the asio4all v2, I lose "direct monitoring" option though and i think the latency is bigger, but it doesn't matter that much. So now the problem seems to be related to the m-audio fw-asio not being so good with my in-built firewire (run by intel 945GM chipset, i guess, althogh it's a TI-product). What do you think? And which extension card would help me out you think?

 

If you're ok with Asio4All stick with it for a while until you read/hear success stories with expresscard. At this point there isn't a card that I would(can) recommend.

 

Actually yes, asio4all v2 works perfectly fine with the FW410, and what is more, I figured out that I can use direct monitoring, just didn't confgure it properly before, and latancy hasn't bothered me so far. So now I'm happy again, but hope they (m-audio/Intel/Dell/Zepto/whoever) will figure something out to solve this issue (or issues), 'cause it's is such a waste of time and nerves, and really, it kills the inspiration. good luck to the ones still coping.
Radomir

 

Asio4all works with FW410? How come? My sound card is still at Dell so I can't try it. On my laptop Asio4all works perfectly with the onboard Sigmatel sound card, but if what you say is correct, that completely solves the problem!

You connected FW410 to your laptop, loaded a virtual instrument and in the configuration page set the out put to Asio4all. Then you played and the sound came out from the FW410 outputs not your laptop speakers? With no latency or drop outs?

 

I use cubase and I stopped getting the spikes in vst-performance window after switching to asio4all. It took a little while to adjust everythin but now it works. I put buffer to 128 samples at both asio4all and the FW410 control panel. And checked the lower latency option and have about 4ms. Even rewire with Reason works. it's amazing.

 

That's great! Can't wait to get my sound card back.

 

Hmm. I've used asio4all with my firewire FCA202, and I still get the same kind of horrendous drop-out/stutter/feedbacky distortion regardless of buffer settings. Considering the FCA202 is about the most barebones firewire audio interface one can get, and that the drivers are developed by the chipset manufacturer, I'm still thinking this is going to need attention from Dell to resolve (or at least explain).

 

Yeah, that's what I thought would happen when you use a firewire device with asio4all. What Radomir siad is too good to be true, and I hope that it is true, but keep in mind that his laptop has the TI chipset and ours has the Ricoh chipset. So if Dell addresses the 945 chipset problem, we might still have the compatibility issue, which the SIIG Expresscard firewire port should bypass.

The Dell guy told me the ETA for the new BIOS is September 4th, hopefully it will be released in the coming days.

 

hello guys, i'm from the uk and i'm having the same problem with my dell inspiron e1505, which is here called inspiron 6400! i have a presonus firebox and i have the same glitches, pops and interruptions! please post something here as soon as you know anything about an update so we can use ricoh integrated firewire port properly with out sound card or any update that makes the use of a firewire express card possible! thanks, i've tried the same using asio4all drivers and still get the glitches! it really was too good to be true!...hope this will get fixed, it seems that this release of the core duo caought all the manufacturers in offside! really...i mean really...did no one test this thing before releasing it?! very dissapointing! thanks

 

ps...did anyone that had this problem buy the centrance driver? does it really do the wonders that they say?...thanks

 

Just to update you guys, I talked to the dell support today and it seems that the BIOS fix has been pushed back to November. In the meantime the workarounds are using Asio4all with the onboard sound card, or getting a USB audio interface instead of a firewire one.

 

Thanks for the update, not that I will use firewire for sound, but I still find it very good info
I'll buy a usb soundcard if I need the better connectors and sound, I don't need any recording capabilities.

 

Not 100% true.
I have 0 problem with presonus firebox/firepod and motu 828 with the manufacturer provided driver and also Centrance Ideal Driver for firebox/firepod.
It seems like it depends on the manufacturer of soundcard you're using.

 

dudesdudets,what laptop have you got and what configuration? and where are you from? it's pretty weird that we all have the problem with dell + firewire audio cards and you can run em fine...i'm happy your config works....but i'm just curious, what is really at the bottom of this problem?!

cheers,

make good music...

 

This is what I have
E1505 core duo T2300
2GB OCZ pc5400 ram
Geforce Go7300

I initially had radeon X1300 and I was getting bunch of audio dropouts. After I changed it to Go7300 there is no more problem.
I also always shutdown I8kfangui when I use firebox.
The tweaks I've done are listed on the 2nd page of this topic.

 

Wow, I wish I had found this thread before I went out and bought the SIIG Firewire 2-Port ExpressCard. I wrestled with this thing all night, and couldn't not come up with a solution. It's good to know that this is not confined to my computer. I get clicks and pops with an E1705 and a MOTU Ultralite. The reason why I picked up the SIIG Expresscard was because the MOTU website said use a TI or Lucent Chipset for firewire.

I really didn't want to use the Expresscard slot anyway, because I was using eSATA hard drives to stream Kontakt loaded samples, and eSATA is faster than Firewire. So I hope a fix to the orginal chipset can do something, or maybe an interface with USB 2.0?

 

I'm feeling a bit guilty now! ;-) I wrote about the issue almost three months after I found it. How much did that Expresscard cost you? 100 bucks?

Again, except for the lucky dudesdudets, if you don't need external inputs, Asio4all solves your problem. But if you need some I/O capability, either try dudesdudets configuration or get a USB interface.

 

It's okay. I purchased the expresscard from a local dealer and they gave me a full refund. It's just so frustrating trying to get a good laptop setup without having to spend an arm and a leg (the audio pro laptops are very expensive!)

So we're stuck with trying to find a work around or building a DAW from scratch (desktop), when this simply could be solved with a)Dell, picking a better firewire chipset, or b)someone, whoever is at fault, fixing the expresscard slot where we can use, say, I don't know, an EXPRESSCARD!

Sorry about the rant, but I'm frustrated.

P.S. I use asio4all for somethings, like B4II, and it works great at a decent latency and for the price, you can't beat it, but like it works for B4 really well, it's terribe in Kontakt2, at least for me anyway. I don't want to trade my ultralite in, for a lesser usb interface, but right now I only need asio for playing my VIs, so I may just pick up a cheap one for now.

 

I don't have any problems with Asio4all. Maybe you should try different settings. It works perfectly with Ivory (12GB piano sample).

 

dudesdudets how did you actually change you video card? I have almost the same config that you have and I'm really annoyed with the audio dropouts that I have with my Dell Inspiron 6400(E1505)! I have Core Duo T2700, 2GB ram, with ATI X1300! I'm really curious how you changed you video card! I'd be thankful if you leave a post!

Thanks,
Andy

 

don't have any problems with Asio4all. Maybe you should try different settings. It works perfectly with Ivory (12GB piano sample).[/QUOTE]

What settings do you use? I get crackles at anything less than 576 samples in Garritan JABB, which uses Kontakt engine.

 

I'm using the default settings except that the resampling option is disabled and the ASIO buffer size is set to 64 samples.

What is your laptop configuration? (CPU, RAM, HDD) Are you streaming from the internal or an external HDD?

 

Me neither, I don't think that the CPU is your problem. I'm more suspicious about your HDD. I stream from a 160GB 7200RPM firewire HDD through the 'built-in' 1394 port. Surprisngly it doesn't have any problems with the 1394 port.

Try using your built-in HDD. I have a feeling that your external HDD is crippled by the expresscard issue.

It seems that it's not a firewire chipset issue, but the Intel's chipset issue. (I forgot to say that the Dell agent told me the case has been escalated to Intel)

 

Let's double check, you have your sound card and hard drives disconnected, and I suppose the only thing hooked up to your laptop is your midi controller.

You load a vsti and select asio4all as the output device. Then 'with-in' the vsti you hit the 'ASIO config', hit 'load the defaults' and then set the buffer to, say, 256 samples. And you still get the pops?

 

Yup, 512, is the lowest I've ever gotten with any program (B4II). Some progs are equal to that, and some are worse.

 

Weird! If you have problem running B4II I'd say it's not an HDD or firewire issue. Set the buffer to 128 and watch your CPU usage while jamming with B4II. Does it jump to 50% (or 100% if both cores are working) when you hear the pops?

Are you running any programs that might cause the problem?

 

CPU usage is at 6 to 8% and all I'm hearing is buzzing when I press keys, lol!!!

I close all of my programs down when I play my VI's. As a matter of fact I have a hardware profile that disables everything that I'm not using, and a services.bat file, which I created to stop all of the unnecessary services that run in the background during regular windows. When I run on my DAW desktop, windows is barely using 100MB of ran, before loading any audio programs.

 

How do you determine how much RAM is being used? 100 MB sounds really low.