Firewire issue affecting all the Dell Core Duo notebooks

Yes. I deactivated all possible devices. Much more as on your list. No resource conflicts at all. It is the ENE CB1410 Cardbus Controller that works not very performant. Even with newest drivers etc. Check my link to digitaltigers that explains a lot. You have luck with your HP Notebook - good PCMCIA Performance.

 

Hi,

Found this thread via google while researching what audio interface to buy.

I have just bought an Inspiron 640m (Core 2 Duo 1.83Ghz, 1024Mb Ram, 80GB 7200 RPM HD, Windows XP Pro). One of it's uses will be for audio related work - DJing with Ableton Live and some producing with Reason, Live, VSTs + recording of external synths. I was already aware of the firewire issue but the deal on the laptop from Dell Outlet was just too good to miss out on. I will go with a USB interface if I have too but there is a serious shortage of USB 2.0 interfaces on the market & USB 1.1 interfaces aren't ideal as you can't simultaneously record and playback at high sample rates. I am just checking whether I really do have to put firewire completely out of my mind or if there have been any developments.

So, my understanding was:

1) Dell Inspiron laptops use Ricoh firewire chipsets and these do not get on well with firewire audio interfaces.

2) There is an issue with the expresscard on the inspiron and firewire expresscards aren't working properly.

Is there any update on any of this? Either a fix on the firmware for the firewire chipset or a fix so the expresscard works properly?


The other thing I noticed from this thread was a number of people saying that they were having success with Presonus firewire interfaces. I am sceptical though. Is this confirmed? Have any of the people who had problems with other makes of audio interface had success by switching to Presonus?

 

My emachines m6805 worked fine with the ENE CB1410 cardbus controller.

 

Just for understanding:

The PCMCIA-Port with ENE CB1410 works without conflicts and it works 'ok'. BUT if you need the whole PCI-Bus Performance it is not the right choice. This depends on your demands and on your pheripherals connected to the port.

Most people never recognize this low performance behaviour because they just don't need it.

 

Just like Deep Beep here. I have Inspiron 9400, using Focusrite Saffire and a lot of clicks and pops with the onboard ricoh s**** fw interface. The only hope I have for now is that someday a working fw expresscard is release. If anybody knows something I don't about that please give information on the thread. I won't change my laptop neither my audio interface, it's way too late now, so I have to find a work around...

Is there any hope you think that someday a firmware upgrade for the inspiron could be release and fix the ricoh fw interface problems ?

 

As I said earlier, Dell released a new BIOS for M90 that "improved Expresscard performance under Vista", I haven't tested it yet, but I will in a couple of weeks.

Also, I read in some forums that T.C. Electronics Konnekt sound cards work with the built in firewire of Dell laptops. I have ordered that too and should have it in a couple of weeks.

I'll keep you guys posted.

 

I'll let you know if the Siig 2-port firewire works.

 

Oh man, I am having this exact same problem, and am in a weird way a little relieved to know that many others are experiencing the same struggles.

I tried just about everything listed on this thread and nothing worked.

I was on the Dell Support chat last night, told them about my problem, and even sent them a link to this thread. They told me that they would replace my motherboard and that that should solve the problem. Maybe they are using a new chipset for their firewire? I hope so. They are sending me the return kit now, and said that it will take up to 10 business days to repair, but I will keep you updated.

Setup: Dell e1705, Firewire Audiophile

 

I don't know if you read the whole thread or not (it's 31 pages now!), but I wrote earlier that they replaced my motherboard in summer and it didn't help.

It's very unlikely that they change the chipsets that are using.

 

What I find a little amazing (based on PC132's post) is that Dell are seemingly unaware of this issue. They are going to go to the trouble and expense of replacing a MOBO because they don't understand that it won't work and it appears to be a fundamental issue with the firewire chip they are using.

That is kind of disappointing as it would seem to indicate that 1) they didn't bother to read this thread when they were linked to it and 2) their internal communications are rubbish - this should have been a highlighted and a "known issue" at Dell tech support by now - it is a recognised issue on their own forums FFS!

If this was being communicated properly within Dell then it would stand a chance of making it back to their R&D departments so that future machines could be manufactured with a different FW chipset or, better still they could put pressure on Ricoh to provide an improved firmware or something. Unfortunately it seems Dell remain unaware of the problem at a high level so this won't happen.

 

By the way, I've opted for the safe option and have ordered a relatively inexpensive USB device (M-Audio Fast Track Pro). If there is a working FW expresscard in the future then I may upgrade then.

 

Sam - Yes, after reading 31 pages of posts, I completely forgot that you already did the mobo change. I would like to reference your case specifically when speaking with Dell, would you mind posting or pm'ing me your dell case number?

I really think everybody having problems should let both Dell and their soundcard manufacturer know. I also have a case open w/M-Audio.

Setup: e1705, Firewire Audiophile

 

I've updated my E1505's Bios few weeks ago and I am seeing a huge performance improvement compared to older ones(I use winxp). Now external HDs with initio chipset are way more stable than they were before I've updated the Bios. It seems like Dell is trying to solve this expresscard problem(I don't think at all it is Dell's no.1 priority though). Still no luck with my soundcard through expresscard though.

 

Actually, I was using my PCMCIA slot with 4 UAD-cards in a cutdown magma chassis. And it uses quite a bit of performance.
It worked fine.

 

Using the SIIG card is even worse. Now the audio just stutters.

 

I have mentioned my case number somewhere! in the thread (p.16 or 18 I guess) but don't hold your breathe. I didn't help others. :-(

 

thanks for the info!

 

I did a firewire VS USB test tonight using the built-in Firewire port and Siig Interface card. The results show the Firewire underperforming, especially in the sequential and buffered writing test VS the USB speeds. This, IMO, is a serious issue that need sto be addressed. Quite frankly, if this isn't delat with, I will be forced to return my D820. Somehtign i really don't want to do, because I really like it.

USB:

Sequential Writing : 33.14 MB/s (Cpu usage : 2%
Sequential Read : 39.03 MB/s
Buffered Writing : 36.27 MB/s
Buffered Reading : 43.33 MB/s (Cpu usage : 1%)
Random Reading : 30 MB/s (Cpu usage : 6%)

Built-in Firewire:

Sequential Writing : 22.1 MB/s (Cpu usage : 0%)
Sequential Read : 32.29 MB/s
Buffered Writing : 22.31 MB/s
Buffered Reading : 33.76 MB/s
Random Reading : 16 MB/s (Cpu usage : 1%)



SiiG Expresscard Firewire:


Sequential Writing : 11.95 MB/s (Cpu usage : 0%)
Sequential Read : 33.41 MB/s
Buffered Writing : 11.96 MB/s (Cpu usage : 1%)
Buffered Reading : 34.7 MB/s
Random Reading : 26 MB/s (Cpu usage : 1%)

 

Hey all:

I just wanted to drop a line and note my experiences so far with my Dell e1705 (and my roommate's e1505 as well) as a DAW. I purchased the unit last April, and was excited to use the expresscard slot for a 1394a device given the architecture of the expresscard bus system. I was unable to get an external expresscard firewire card until about September or October. I tried 3 different brands of cards, and the first two simply bluescreened my computer. I got the SIIG card to work, but only when you plug it in after my machine has booted. Of 3 audio interfaces I own, only the M-Audio Ozonic works at all, even when the card shows up in the system. Both an Audiofire8 and my trusty Yamaha i88x fail to work entirely with the SIIG card connected. (Oh, and it goes without saying that the internal firewire 4 pin device does not do very well under low latency situations. That is a primary reason why I bought a computer with an expresscard slot!)

Once I reached my irritation threshold, I called Dell. The first three times I talked to tech support overseas (5 hours of my time) they told me it was my computer. I allowed them (over my general objection) to replace the mainboard in hopes it would fix the problem. Of course, it was not a faulty motherboard.

I again called Dell when the same problem cropped up again. I need an expresscard adapter to work (especially given the fact that they sell the SIIG on their own web site as an accessory for the e1705), and that is the bottom line. After again dealing with tech support for 2+ hours, they told me that they have heard of this before, and there is nothing that they can do. They (passed the buck and) transferred me to sales so they could give me some sort of accomodation.

The salesman told me he had no idea what I was talking about, but assured me that all expresscards work and it isnt a problem. Finally, he put his manager on the line, and his manager told me that it was the fault of the expresscard manufacture. He attempted to shirk responsibility by telling me that I should have bought the card from Dell.... Oops, I did. After he realized that I bought the SIIG card from his company, he backtracked and said he would cut me a killer deal on a XPS box which would not have the same problems.

After he quoted me a price that was higher than I got online when assembling the same system, I about lost it. I told him I am a lawyer (which is true unfortunately) and that I was not going to take ANY loss by sale of my previous 8 month old machine, and that any accomodation had to be one that would make me essentially whole again. I told him I was not interested in an XPS (that I was not sure would have the same problem) and that I wanted to talk to tech support again. Then he told me something that blew my mind: he told me that I would sit and deal with foreign tech support for another 4 hours and end up at the same place again. He suggested that I buy the machine from him, bill another 4 hours at my job for a grand, and then it will be a wash. I was shocked. I told him to insert the XPS into his anus, and then I called tech support back.

After another 3 hours with the nicest tech support guy I had met, I was transferred to Dell Customer Support. This gentleman sounded like he was from New Zealand. At this point, it was my tech support guy and the customer support guy going back and forth for about 25 minutes. Finally, after tech support admitted to customer support that this is a bit of a known problem with no solution, customer support got his boss and told me they would fix it.

Sure enough, they offered me fifty (50) dollars for my time. See anus comment above. He eventually offered me 150 dollars and then tried to strong arm me into settling my dispute by saying that the money would never be offered to me again after that particular conversation. I found the whole "customer service" experience to be ridiculous. After I got the kiwi to admit that he actually did have a boss (he told me there was no way to get over his head), he told me a someone would call me at a later date.

A week later, I get an email from someone on the "escalation team" with assurances that my problem will be solved. I have been trying to get a hold of the person who sent this email for an entire week, as his ext always is "busy" and he does not respond to my emails.

I have had it, I am fed up. The computer does not work as advertised, I spent good money on the machine, JUST for daw work in my spare time, and my band wants to fire me because our recording rig never works.

I am going to consider filing a class action suit against Dell if I can get enough people to get the action certified. It seems to me that 1000's of people would have this same problem, if only they tried to use an expresscard device of any kind. Dell support is failing to help ANYONE as far as I know.

Anyhow, thats my story. Comments?

 

I totally agree with you.
I am going to look into stopping any more payments on my current laptop that I have financed through them.

And this is a copy of the letter I've emailed to their tech support.

 

Anybody wanting to add their voice to the complaint can go to the following link and have it be known they too have a problem:

http://www.dellcommunity.com/supportforums/board/message?board.id=insp_bios&thread.id=40517

 

Has anyone test Vista ?
Will the ricoh drivers for vista solve the problem ? Or will vista be better on audio?

 

It has nothing to do with the OS, and everythign to do with the Bios.
I tried it under OSX, which I have installed as a dual boot. Same response.
Again, on my other laptop it worked fine.

 

Thanks for the answer.
There's a nex bios A13. But be carfeul, some users has problems (like me). I have to downgrade to A12 : http://www.dellcommunity.com/supportforums/board/message?board.id=insp_bios&thread.id=40489

 

It's interesting that Dell would offer a card on their site for sale, that doesn't work with their laptops:

Siig 2 port Expresscard firewire:

Dell Part# : A0615782

 

I think I'm going to send mine back and get a Toshiba sattelite P100.

 

Does this issue affect Video editing? I use Sony Vegas and need a laptop that can capture DV and HDV and also run a firewire hard drive. Will I have problems with a e1505?

 

Is this a Dell issue or a intel MB issue? In other words, any laptop using this mb have the same issues?
It seems people are saying the TI mb's are immune but few manufacturers use the TI.

 

Dunno if i would do that, as i said in an earlier post i had a dual core tosh satellite A100 and everytime the cpu fan switched on and off the firewire port glitched, the internal audio card did as well. If you are doing video or DAW i found the A100 useless, hopefully the P100 doesn't suffer the same problem but i think it will. Google groups: cpu fan audio glitches toshiba and see what i mean.

 

I picked up an HP NC8430 on the weekend.
It just happened to be that someone here in vancouver was selling their 3 month old HP for $1300.
It worked right away. No problems so far.

 

OK folks... I've been reading this thread with much interest, and I may have a solution to the Expresscard problem! I suspected (as I'm sure many of you did) that the problem was not so much a compatibility issue between Dell Expresscard slots and firewire... but rather between Dell Expresscard slots (or perhaps any Expresscard slots on a 945-chipset notebook) and TI's FW400 chipset. Unfortunately, -all- of the firewire Expresscards out there use TI chipsets...

...however, they don't all use the TI FW400 chipset. I tried two firewire Expresscards in my E1505 with all of the same problems you all describe... especially the issue where it doesn't work -at all- if it's plugged in during powerup. One was a SIIG, the other a Belkin. Today I picked up a Belkin FW800 Expresscard (with TI chipset), and what do you know... it works! I'm thinking the reason it works is the different chipset required to support FW800. The simple solution here may be to simply purchase an Expresscard with at least one FW800 port on it.

That said... I'm still in the very early stages of testing performance, but it is working with my RME Fireface800.

-S

 

Please let me know how the new expresscard fares. I am particularly interested if the fireface operates at really low latencies without pops and clicks.

Thanks for a glimmer of hope,

Jh

 

encouraging sreams.. keep this thread updated with progress please.

Anyone else able to try this card with their FW interface?

 

Well... good and bad. Performance is about the same as the internal firewire. I'm also getting hard system locks from time to time. There isn't much rhyme or reason to it. Sometimes it works for a long time. Sometimes I'll get four boots in a row that will end in a lockup as soon as I press play in Sonar. This problem I'm not totally convinced is the fault of a Dell/Expresscard incompatibility, however, because I've had a few issues lately with my desktop and FW800. It may actually be the cable, so I wouldn't totally discourage others from giving this a shot.

The other thing that I noticed is that the TI FW800 chipset is connected over a PCI bridge (as seen in Device Manager)... which means the Expresscard isn't really PCI Express. The internal Ricoh chip connects without a PCI bridge, so it is a true PCI Express device.

-S

 

I had a thought about this when I was reinstalling the OS (in a very stripped down way) on my laptop yesterday.

The Ricoh firewire chip is apparently problem and I think this chip also controls the card reader and network on the laptop. This makes me wonder whether the problem may be down to some sort of resource sharing. I'm not really techie enough to explain what I mean properly but if there is presumably one (PCI bus?) connection to this chip on the motherboard then the data and drivers for 3 or 4 devices are sharing one communication channel; that sounds a nightmare to me as a layman - surely not what you want if you need a constant fast stream of data, which you do if you are using it for audio.

So, has anybody tried switching off these other devices controlled by the Ricoh chip in their BIOS and/or unistalling the drivers in device manager? If the chip is only controlling the Firewire input, does it work any better?

 

Do the XPS systems experience the same incompatibility issues as the Precision, Latititude, and Inspiron systems?

 

The XPS is basically an inspiron

 

sorry to hear about the problems everyones faceing, i've ordered a dell 6400 for music and i'm wondering if i've made a big mistake, my current set up is an echo indigo soundcard and a usb keyboard on a high-grade laptop,i was thinking about getting an pcmcia = express card adaptor for the echo. If I can't get an adapter i'll probobly just get a usb soundcard. Have I made a big mistake? or should this laptop be ok for my electronic noodlings in ableton. Anyone have any experience djing with one of these?

 

As long as you don't try and use a firewire interface you'll be ok.
I wouldn't count on the Echo to work using a PCMCIA to Expresscard adapter. Especially on the Dell, as the basic Siig Firewire card wouldn't even work on mine.

I suggest you pick up something like an M-Audio Transit. Which is USB, small and portable.

 

cheers henchman, how is the transit for djing? it's not something i really got the laptop for but it is something i had fun with although i am using dss dj at home just for fun with the indigo(using the onboard card for monitoring as i don't have the echo dj card)

 

I've been very interested in this thread and even called up Dell's tech people to ask them about it. I directed the tech guy to this website but until we spoke he wasn't aware of the problem. I'm really keen to buy a dell precision M90 - same specs as Sam Vafael's but firewire is key to me.

So I have some news from the dell guy yesterday: apparently there was a bios update in december 2006.

I also have a couple of questions for you guys:
1. did this fix the problem of using firewire for anyone?
2. has anyone used the firewire port with a video camera i.e. live video input like for capturing it to then make movies? It would be SO helpful to me to know if this, too, is problematic or if it perhaps works!

I do real-time video & 3D graphics work. I need to use XP and do real-time processing of video streaming in from firewire to generate 3d graphics on top of the video. So the dell M90 with a core2duo and quadro card looks just great... but only if the firewire works! - Any suggestions much appreciated.

 

Don't waste your time by calling Dell. I haven't done anything related to video on my system, so can't comment on that, but I remember the Dell agent I used to work with on the issue told me that they were able to reproduce the issue on Digicams too.

I haven't had a chance to test the BIOS either (I sold my FW sound card and haven't bought a new one yet). But I have a Western FW hard drive that I use for sample streaming and surprisingly it never had a problem with my system.

Hope that helps,

 

Dont know if this helps you out, but the firewire on the E1705 works fine with DV devices. I work with Avid editing software and all the different flavors (Xpress Pro, liquid, edition) work ok. I've only tested it with 2-3 Sony cameras and a couple of JVC decks, but should be indicative.

 

thanks guys
I found this online that seems to state the firewire on the M90 is good to go with (only) digital video cameras... so it seems I'll be ok.
http://support.dell.com/support/top...d=DD003180C77511DB917D7FA43D960787&l=en&s=bsd

Think I might take the plunge - that quadro card is just too nice; and there's always a pc slot possibility on the expansion station though that's not exactly a cheap or mobile solution.
cheers,
jen

 

hello people,

i am very happy to say that i may have found a remedy to the DELL and FIREWIRE issue...works for me!

after a fresh install of my windows xp media centre edition before installing andy DRIVERS! don't install any drivers but any devices that you really use!
i didn't install network card, wireless, and most important...no RICOH driver package for the firewire chipset and card readers etc! no intarnal sound card...

i just installed the ati video drivers...presonus firebox...disabled all the devices that had no drivers and SD controller, updated the intel chipset utility...that's really important for USB and mainboard!

after all this the FIREBOX is working perfectly with my DELL INSPIRON 6400 core duo...

and PS - has anyone noticed that DELL withdrew tha A13 BIOS update?
DELL are massive NOOBS...

 

Do you have a core duo or core 2 duo?
Because the main issues have been, if I'm correct, core 2 duo machines.

Also, I didn't buy a laptop with all the built in features to not sue them.
I can run everything on my HP NC8430 withotu any problems at all. Bluetooth, wirless, network, everything.

 

I've never Dj-ed. So I don't know.

 

So I can use the firewire with no problems as long as I'm ok with not using nearly any other feature? I'm sure thats an even trade off.

 

Interesting. I was wondering whether that would work (see my post on previous page).

Presumably the problems people experience *could* be caused by the Firewire sharing the same bus as the other devices controlled by the Ricoh chip.

 

<strike>Well, bad news. T.C. Electronics Konnekt 24D doesn't work either. I was really hoping that this one would work.</strike> T.C. Electronic Konnekt sound cards work with the built-in firewire port of Dell laptops. But make sure not to use it with I8KFanGUI.