Greg:

Sorry man but I think you were out of line in that last thread you closed. The OP wanted a way to burn out his GPU in a legit fashion and that is NOT fraud! He simply asked how to run the GPU hot via a game loop or other way.

That easily falls under normal wear and tear and should NOT cause damage, if it does it should be covered under warranty. People have legit concerns here with these defects.

Any laptop or PC should be able to be ran full throttle on CPU, GPU, HDD, RAM or otherwise without failure.

I hope you reconsider unlocking that thread.

 

You could have just PM'd him.

 

then we wouldnt hear of the injustice in the world ^^

 

Yeah I created a thread about the same thing but was a little bit more upset about it. So it naturally got closed also

 

I believe Greg acted 100% the way he should have. Intentionally trying to kill something is fraud, and that is not what notebookreviews.com is all about. No matter why the OP wanted to kill or burn out his GPU is the wrong way to go about things.

 

if ur computer xplotes running a stress test, or game, or anything then its garbage, go return it, its that simple...
if i buy a notebook with dedicated video card then i want it to be able to take some punishment (playing, etc etc..) if it fails at that then is a sure return...

 

You moderators/long-time posters clearly have different opinions than most other people who use this site. It doesn't matter what he is trying to accomplish by running his PC at full load. The simple fact is that it is IN NO WAY illegal to run your PC in a stressful manner. Is it immoral in this case?...yes, I could admit to that.

 

I don't think it's fraud, it's just dumb. You are just going to get the same card so you aren't going to gain anything. Just use your computer normally and apply the fixes they provide; that's all you can do right now.

 

Yes I agree 100%. But trying to overload your hardware on purpose with the intent to destroy said h/w for a warranty replacement is fraud and just wrong. I would expect a replacement if it blew up in my face, but killing it on purpose isnt the way to go about things.

Im an extreme power user, so Im no stranger to stressing a mcachine to its fullest. But the OP of the first thread was trying to intentionally sabotage his rig, and that is immoral and illegal. Same thing as trashing a car thats about to go out of warranty because there is a known issue and your car doesnt have said issue.

 

But trashing a car is physical damage and is guaranteed to cause damage. Now, purposely dropping a laptop on the ground because you have accidental damage insurance is equivalent to purposely trashing a car. But running intensive programs on a laptop isn't. There is absolutely no guarantee that damage will even occur. Again, it is immoral, but not fraudulent.

 

Trashing a car by driving it hard longer then you should or would.

 

The original thread was closed for a valid reason as liquidxit2 has reiterated.

By all means try stress testing. However, if normal stress testing will accelerate the onset of the disease then nVidia would have discovered the problem sooner. You might find that doing your own stress testing may not cause the GPU problems to arise now or in the near future but after the end of the (extended?) warranty period instead of it still working up to the end of the computer's life.

I tried to explain the problem here using an example from the medical field.

John

 

In fairness, the card should be built to be able to take the load software throws at it. Doesn't matter if the load is placed on it on purpose or not. If there was no modification to cause the card to overheat or behave in a way it shouldn't (forcing your fans not to run, overclocking, or messing the the ventilation) then really there's nothing wrong here. Morality? Who cares. nVidia sure doesn't seem to care much that its customers are angry and want answers, why should we care if we expose nVidias flaw when it should NOT break under load without modification? Morality is moot, he should be able to run what he wants on his card, period.

 

You run a car and shift up as the speed increases. But, you think the motor is going so you want to trash the engine. You run your car in second gear and go on a highway for an hour.

By doing a stress test or game loop, you're running it in second gear on a highway. It's not normal everyday use, it's purposely trying to break something. Unless you're going to tell them the exact way it broke (as in, you actively tried to break it) it's called fraud.

 

I agree he should be able stress test or game hard on his laptop. But purposefully running constant stress testing is well above and beyond what anyone would do to a laptop. As for not caring about morality jsut because Nvidia doesn't care isn't the way to go about life. That kind of apathy towards morality would leave the world a crappy place as nobody would have morals.

 

I'm rather neutral about this issue. But WTF is up with calling this illegal ?? I mean, since when really is it illegal to intentionally harm your own property ?? So you're telling me everytime someone on some show in Discovery Channel blows up something belonging to them, they're committing a crime ??

 

Fraud is illegal. AKA damaging something on purpose in order to reap insurance benefits?

 

I agree with Greg, that's just wrong.
Its the part that's it intentional that's wrong, an accident would have been fine.

 

There is a difference between stress testing to ensure your computer works properly, and stress testing to find and pass the point of failure.

Playing a loop in Crysis for 48 hours straight is stress testing for functionality. Playing that same loop while keeping the laptop stuck in between pillows, or throwing it in a thermal chamber to heat it up a little, is the 'fraud' that I speak of.

It all depends on what the OP was trying to do. Break it by passing operational limits, or test it within the laptop's acceptable limits.

As John mentioned, normal stress testing probably will not reveal what chips will work and which ones are defective.

And no, this thread isn't closed...so if you are surprised that it isn't closed yet...well, you're in for a surprise.

 

Do I really have to ask my question about the Discovery Channel guys that you quoted, again ?

EDIT: OK, The insurance benefits part doesn't apply. You're right.

 

Someone who would have their video card fail on them would not be receiving any benefits, however. They would simply be getting a replacement part that would give them more usage out of their still doomed PC. Again, someone trashing a car is a completely different case. They would be given cold, hard cash from their insurance company that they weren't entitled to. Anyone who has a defective card should be entitled to a replacement (even the same defective part at the very least), and that is all, which is what the original poster was getting at.

 

I agree with Greg, that's just wrong.
Its the part that's it intentional that's wrong, an accident would have been fine.

 

Is there an echo in here?

 

I do not know of the thread that was closed but... Fraud is only committed as Greg said if someone were to do "unreasonable actions" towards their device that is outside the terms of the warranty or insurance. In other words if you were to put a heater next to it- run it stuffed in a bag, etc.

But, if you were to run a stress test on a computer on a loop, or be playing Crysis for an extended time, etc and even IF you were attempted to burn out/ hurt your computer. It is still covered by the warranty. It isn't moral , it is wrong- yet as long as he discloses that I was running stress tests for multiple hours on my computer and it crashed and can prove that it does not specifically say that this would qualify as a void or invalidation of his warranty/insurance plan, then he is covered.
(maybe in the insurance plan there was a clause about "intentionally stressing the computer abnormally". THEN and only then is this illegal.)
Would I do this- no. But some people don't have conscious.

 

There are a lot of silly posts in this thread. Either a lot of you don't understand why this is wrong, or you want to justify your actions so you don't feel as bad purposefully damaging you laptop. It's called an accidental warranty for a reason. If your so bent out of shape about this Nvidia graphics card issue that you want to stick your laptop in an oven so you can get a replacement, I think you have a larger problem. In fact your laptop might never have any problems. Just leave well enough alone, and if you experience any problems get it replaced. Don't try to fry you laptop to just get a new one...that's foolishness and fraudulent if done on purpose.
Tim

 

haha agreed. Anyway- who cares- if you post on a forum about trying to mess up your own laptop your an idiot anyway.

 

There is no such thing as "Attempted hardware failure" like their is "Attempted murder". As long as nothing physically is done to assist in a device failure, there is nothing illegal going on. And unless someone calls Dell and outright says, "I succeeded in purposely damaging my PC", there is not going to be even a hint of a problem.

 

Agreed
Tim

 

Correct. Unless he is mucking around with the voltages and O/Cing or physically altering the GPU, then he isn't doing anything fraudulent. It's just stupid because he really isn't going to gain anything from it, except a replacement card of the same type and the inconvenience of being without a laptop while it is being repaired. Without purposely bringing failure quicker, the GPU may have lived beyond its useful life. That is why he should leave it alone and let it happen when it happens.

 

I completely missed this discussion till now.

People, whats happening? Please stop blasting Greg or the Mod'.

Its simple - hurting someone or something intentionally / physically, or wanting to do so with the thought of causing hurt, pain or premature death is UNACCEPTABLE. Its immoral, unethical, stupid, ill-advised and what-not.

In any case, if there was a discussion started on a forum like this one, with the above mentioned idea in mind, with suggestions following up on how to carry it out successfully (no matter why you wanna do it, and in this case even if the card is faulty), and if I was a mod or administrator, I would have probably stripped the OP bare naked, hanged him/her upside down from the top most point of a pine tree in Siberia!!!

I mean, there was no way I could think the mod' would probably let the thread live considering the actual point, and as someone mentioned, taking the risk of someone from Dell or some manufacturer seeing this and pulling some kind of action on this forum... So please don't bash the poor mod's / admni's. They are just doing their duty.

For god sake people, how is it even possible to have another discussion thread here for a thread that was closed simply because the OP wanted to cause intentional harm or failure to his laptop? Hmmmm

Please don't hurt anyone / anything intentionally or with the thought of causing premature failure simply because you "believe" or "think" you'll get a better / good replacement Life doesn't work that way.

Cheers.

 

I agree with the OP of this thread. Can we have Greg removed from being a Mod?

 

The moderators of NotebookReview are not voted by the members, they are chosen by the NotebookReview administration. We moderators support Greg to continue being a moderator, and NotebookReview administration has no plans to remove him, as he has always done a great job.

NotebookReview isn't just "any other tech forum out of the millions created". It is among the largest, and is well respected by tech manufacturers. We are featured in magazines and official websites. What happens around in our forums directly affects NotebookReview's reputation out there. We can't let things like this just run wild on a large and respected forum like NotebookReview.

 

Greg is 100% right and whoever is ignorant enough to not realize that INTENTIONALLY/PURPOSELY hurting your laptop to get a new replacement of a component or computer unit as a whole is FRAUDULENT should repeatedly read the bolded part of this sentence over and over again until they understand why that thread was closed.

What we really should be discussing is how we, as consumers, should take action against the big corporation legally.

 

Exactly. I sympathize for those with the defective GPUs, but this isn't a proper way of handling the issue. Rather, starting petitions, posting in blogs and forums like NotebookReview about the issue can make a difference. NVIDIA and the manufacturers should be offering replacements, or at least adaqueatly addressing the issue.

 

Wow, I'm just.... I don't know what to say. Greg is a great mod, I personally like him and think he should stay. Not that our opinion matters anyway.
Really, I totally support Greg's decision to close that thread, he made the right choice.
What is the point of this thread? It should have been taken to PM.
[/thread]

 

I personally haven't seen, so I can't say if it's true, but I've heard of the tactic Nvidia has been using, by "cleansing" their forums of any posts suggesting problems with their chips. Not only them, but I blame the manufacturer's for not admitting in a more timely fashion the problem. [looks straight at Dell]

 

[Looks at Apple] Jobs, I know you're listening too >:[

 

FWIW: I think you overreacted in closing that thread, Greg, but that's something that happens occasionally. IMO, a much bigger mistake was made when you allowed the name-calling post to stand which was aimed at you!

IMHO, you guys, the Mods, have got to put a stop to those sorts of insulting comments - especially when made by someone with all of nine posts at NBR. That kind of crap should rate an instant ban.

 

LOL thats a good one,

As a moderator, Greg cannot encourage such actions or discussions.

If you wanna blow up your gpu, do it yourself. Just dont let us know. Personally Dell/Nvidia is to blame. Point all your frustrations to them. Maybe they will do something about it.

Fight the power!

 

You know why I think Greg is a good mod? I've seen him get razzed at the forums before, but he always deals with it in a very mature manner. Even saying nothing, but just letting things roll off of him. That's a good mod quality. Really, he puts up with a lot here, but I know it just goes with the territory...

 

Maybe my post above needs some clarification: I think Greg is an excellent Mod who missed a call on this particular issue - especially given that the insult was aimed at him, talin. BUT, the main point I was trying to make (poorly, admittedly) was that all the name-calling crap and personal insults should be put to an immediate end.

 

Amazing how much can happen with so little time. Greg is indeed an excellent mod, I personally think that he did the right thing and he did was 100% appropriate. My only qualm is he should have done it sooner. It is very sickening that people are trying to find ways to kill their computers when the hardware inside it is working fine. I fully advocate Greg on what he did and did what was morally and ethically right.

Though he is a moderator and has a bunch of rep already...

+rep

for the legitimacy of his actions and doing justice to a thread that encouraged actions that are just wrong on so many levels. The fact is... 99% of the cards are currently in perfect working condition and simply killing them now... its just plain wrong.

Greg did the right thing despite the odds and disagreement of others. He is like "The Dark Knight".

 

I haven't been posting here long, but it is apparent that this is, without a doubt, the most respected English laptop forum. In my opinion, Greg was 100% right in what he did. This forum's reliability should not be tarnished because a BRAND NEW poster wanted a way to cheat his warranty to get a new laptop. I don't see how people can back up a person who has spent barely any time at all posting on these forums. Intentionally breaking a laptop and cheating the warranty is wrong, no matter HOW you do it.

 

To be honest, I'm with bmwrob. Man, we gotta stop meeting like this.

I think Greg overreacted slightly to the original post. As far as I can tell, the OP was trying to stress test the GPU, and wasn't planning on causing it to fail due to physical stress, or as AJ6065 put it

Like several others, I'm thinking this is more immoral than illegal.

To be honest, this isn't quite as bad as those threads asking "So if I'm under complete care, and (I accidentally drop my laptop after a new model is released)/(when my warranty is nearly up), will I get a replacement from Dell?" threads.

I like Greg, I think he's one of the better mods here. I also think the OP should have kept this to PMs and only brought it up if the response from Greg was unsatisfactory. Reading his original response to guy121 however, I can see why some would question it.

As a reader, my first impression was that Greg was being sarcastic. After his explanation, I would say he wasn't actually trying to do so, but he certainly sounded like it.

 

It's doing it with the intention to make it fail that is fraudulent. That's it. Big difference between it happening with normal usage, and deliberately trying to make it fail. Not that it could have been proven to be deliberate, so the poster would just have to live with his conscience (if he even has one).
Just like, difference between an accident, and deliberately dropping a laptop 3 feet onto concrete to get a replacement.
There's no question in my mind that Greg didn't over react to the thread.
Really, this discussion should be closed....

 

You should approach the lead moderator (Chaz) or contact Greg directly with these sorts of issues. Certainly no need to call him an idiot in public.

I agree, thread to be closed.