Inspiron 1720 non-mxm

I am adventuring into familiar, yet unknown territory, and would like to figure out a couple of things that the honoured members of this forum might be able to give answers and ideas to.

My plan:
To remove the 8400M GS and exchange it with a 9600M GT (512MB).

Yes, yes. I know this is 'impossible'. This is why I need some questions answered before I cave in. -Splitting atoms were impossible for a period of time too.

Impossible, because the 1720 is a non-mxm, aka. propretaire solution.

My questions are directed towards figuring out how it is built in its non-mxm way;

1. Is it the holes for the attachment screws that is positioned differently?

2. Is the non-mxm connector any different from a true mxm? If so, how?

3. Is the different connectors wired differently within the non-mxm?

Thanks in advance.

 

Yes, look here for a pic of the 8400m and compare to any MXM card:
DELL INSPIRON 1720 GEFORCE GO 8400M GS GRAPHICS CARD - eBay (item 390225573143 end time Sep-09-10 12:29:18 PDT)

Very different. I don't have a photo to show it though, maybe someone else does.

EDIT: you can see the connector here:
http://www.parts-people.com/images/products/UK435.jpg

 

Okaay. Cool. A challenge.

(Haven't ripped open my PC to take a closer look yet, after all it IS still working -So I keep asking these radical questions instead...

It looks like Dell took the gfx-card, and added a 90 degree angle-connector, am I right?

So if this is what creates the horrible incompatibility, Would there still be a physical hindrance of inserting a proper mxm-card into the slot on the mobo?
Disregarding the fact, the card will be situated vertically...

If not, I foresee a future steam/cyberpunked 1720...

Thanks for the links, I should have thought of that, instead of trying to use the Dell tech documents/diagrams.

 

Yes, the mxm card wouldn't fit at all.

You could try this:
http://forum.notebookreview.com/gaming-software-graphics-cards/418851-diy-vidock-experiences.html

 

8600M GT is the highest the Inspiron 1720 can support and nothing else. It is a proprietary designed card and it neither is MXM.

Here are the images that are taken from my 1720. It has never used an MXM and an 9600M GT running inside it, is impossible. We're all stuck with an 8600M GT being the highest.

DIY ViDock should work as there is an expresscard slot. In the meanwhile to answer your question, a 9600M or any other GPU is impossible unless Dell designs for it.

Motherboard Layout of the 1720 with the GPU and CPU heatsinks.



GPU:



GPU closeup (note the connectors and PCB design and layout as compared to the MXM Type II card):



Traditional MXM II card:

 

Yep. You are definitly right, SFoH.
Even if finding the proper male/female connectors and a flatcable, to make a proprietary 'bridge' would make it difficult. Difficult to figure out narrow, tiny copper-'hair' goes where I assume.

On the other hand, Anyone got the technical diagrams over them, for me to use?

 

LOL, what "technical diagrams" are you refering to?

If you are still trying to figure a way to force an MXM onto it, no the Inspiron aren't like desktops/or any other kind of MXM upgradeable notebooks and you cannot make it work.

The positioning of the HS screws, design of the heatsinks and even its GPU position on the motherboard cannot handle any MXM related card into the motherboard. You'll need a customized heatsink to handle the MXM card and even securing it to the motherboard is also an issue.

For starters, the length of the MXM card doesn't fit and will overlap the DVD writer.

Face it, it's stuck to where it is. Just get a new notebook, preferebly MXM upgradable like MSI or Clevo/Sager. Or a DiY ViDock as Moral mentioned.

I hope these images I prepared answers your queries.

Motherboard GPU placement closeup.
Note the onboard proprietary PCI-E slot ovaled in red to receive the GPU's connector and the HS screw positions circled in red.


Top view PCB layout of the typical 1720 GPU.
Note the monitor cable connector ovaled in red and the HS screw positions circled in red,
to hold the aluminum spreader and the other 3 HS screws to secure the GPU tightly onto the motherboard.


Bottom view PCB layout of the typical 1720 GPU.
Note the main PCI-E proprietary connector ovaled in red and the HS screw positions circled in red to hold the aluminum spreader
and the other 3 HS screws to secure the GPU tightly onto the motherboard.


MXM Type 2 GPU (Or your typical 9600M GT MXM Type II GPU) Note that it has only one independent connector,
the 1720 has two connectors - one for the LCD cable to feed to the monitor display and the other to connect to the motherboard.
Note the different HS screw layout and form size. Square instead of a full rectangular form in the 1720.

 

Thanks again.

Regarding technical diagrams, I was referring to a piece of document that can tell me what signal is traveling where through the 'pins' of the connector.
That would make reverse engineering a little bit easier.

I am aware of 'problems' with card positioning and heatsink-attachment.
-It is only an issue if thinking within the box. I would make a workaround that. what will make me drop the project is the fact that the 'pins' on the connectors are to small to do some homebrew soldering, and the fact that to make a proper working flatcable, I'd need ultrasoundequipment to attach the new connectors. -That would break my budget.
Another problem with attaching a flatcable would also propably be the issue of signal distortion.

Too bad the project must be put to rest. The 1720 is very good when it comes to poking around in its guts. I am just about to exchange the T7300 with a T9500. Looking forward to experience it.

Knowing myself, I'll propably lurk around ebay, to see if a good old 8600M GT appears too.

 

Another hurdle for you would be adding bios support for the new card.

 

Yup the Bios-issue would be, ah, interesting enough.

Gone away from that, and will take the easy way out, and upgrade to a 8600 GT, eventually.

Which leads me to ask you, SomeFormOFhuman; Are you using the I8kfan-program to monitor the temp of your system, and if so, what temperatures are you running at? (and is the coolingsystem cleaned from gunk?)

Running at those speeds, I can only imagine the burnt smell of that wooden table the computer would reside on.

I upped my 8400 with ca. 10/10/10Mhz. It worked charmly but the heat the computer produced were, hm, less than comfortable.

So my next project will be to add some extra coppertubing from the fan, dremel through to the harddrives (2x 500Gb Momentus XT), make some holes in the tubing to let air out, put a bend to the pipe, to break the wind (pun), make some more holes that hot air can be blown into (more pun) and eventually lead the pipe out of the laptop like an exhaustpipe for the heat. Done in a fashionable way, it could/should push/pull some heat out. The harddrives are viciously hot.

Running I8kfan in XP(x32) worked well, but since upgrading to Win7(x64), I have run into some installation problems. I am looking into it and afaik, it should be solvable, although some workaround needs to be done, so are you perhaps running Win7(x64) and got it to work too?

 

62*C maximum. Clocked at those speeds 24/7 for 2.6 years till today with powermizers disabled. My cousins game on it everyday with Crysis, SC2, L4D2, BF2, and the like for 5 hours. 60 degree range while gaming for a GPU is the magical range. Many are running over 80-90*C.

To install I8Kfan on x64 systems, use the guide:

http://forum.notebookreview.com/6052733-post10.html

To be honest, the 1720 does not need any modding for anything. It's as cool as it is. Neither CPU or GPU surpassed 70*C. (X9000 overclocked @ 3.6GHz under 60*C)

You cannot define "hot" or warm by how it feels on your skin. Use HWMonitor to check for temperatures. Majority of the notebooks have their GPUs running over in the 80s. The 1720 doesn't.

If it does, you have lots of dust bites in your heatsink. I do my cleaning every 3 months.

 

Thank you very much for the info and link.
I wonder why I didn't come to think of HWMonitor. It is perfect.

I also just bit the apple, and ordered myself a 8600

Been running Warhammer Dawn of War II/Chaos Rising for hours, and the temp never got over 85,5. There is still room for lowering it, and it will be nice to see what happens when I change the cards, and clean out the gunk of the system.

Again, thanks for all the info. Great forum.

 

85.5.... That's considered warm for a 1720. For other systems 85 for a GPU would be fine. For 2 years it has never go above 70*C for my system (Heck, highest ever recorded was 68*C) and it's everyday gaming. LOL. Open to access the heatink, unscrew them and really blow all dust out. Spare no millimeter of dust, and it'll be back to the 60s range. No need for any modding. You have my guarantee. Haha.

Good luck for your upgrades.

 

Yup. That is what I believe too. For three years (in September) it has been cool and comfortable to use. I love my 1720. Best computer I have ever had since my Amstrad CPC 464 from back in the early eighties.

 

Hmm, temps you can use HWMontor to check, or Real Temp for the CPU. As for me I'm not sure what temps the 1720 is running since I gave it to my brother. I generally took it apart every few months to completely clean the inside. The specs on my 1720 were

Black Inspiron 1720 | T9500 2.6GHz | 8600M GT | 256GB SSD | 640GB 5K4 | 4GB DDR2 | Win 7 Pro | 1920 x 1200 | Vantage: 1457 | 3DMark06: 4366

 

Hah, the Inspiron 1720 FTW

If you're still interested in upgrading your graphics card past the 8600M, I would look at motherboard options with MXM or included graphics card that are better. It may even be possible to find some 15" or 16" with, say, a 9600M GT, that can, with some modifications and air flow adjustments, work in tandem with the rest of your system.

I will start looking up on Inspiron 1750, Studio 17 and M17x motherboards

 

It's not just the motherboard but rather the screen and the rest of the chassis' connectors that need attention to. The worst of all, neither part or connector are using the standard for notebooks; almost everything else is proprietary (And so as most of Dell notebooks) and it will be a difficult time finding a particular wire or a converter to do so - and money. Who knows what other issues will arise when that kind of transition is implemented.

Things are easier said than done - It's not like a desktop whereby things are way much more easier on our hands, we're dealing with a notebook. Not that I know of anybody managed to cram in a different motherboard onto another chassis and worked. Even if it did, it's really not worth the hassle and I might as well invest the money on a new notebook. Just a thought.

To be honest at times I do wish that Dell made a higher end graphics option for the 1720 or at least a standard MXM Type II slot. But for now, just leave it be; it's an old 2007 notebook. Sure, it's good machine at the time of release, but I guess all things will come to pass someday.

 

As SomeFormOFhuman said in a more respectable way. -Not a good idea! Then we're talking about buying a new computer all together. I am not interested in that yet. In my case, I just wanted to renew/rehab the good old warrior. -and with a few upgrades it will propably last me for another 2-3 years before I feel I'll need to get a new one. If I manage to keep this one up and running for a total of 5-6 years, I'd say it outshine a lot of other laptops out there. He**, even desktop systems.

 

Exactly. I'd say just upgrade what you can and what is possible in the mean time. It should run well for a long time, and that if the upgrades suits the things you do... Well then it is more than capable than buying a new notebook.

Hope to see your upgrades coming along. +rep

 

So, the T9500 is at last installed.
Compressed air removed all the gunk.
Restarted with success. Temperature of the system is back to normal.
Started up HWMonitor and RealTemp.
"Watz dis?" The Ork said...
The new CPU is not being registered by the programs.
No prob. Uninstall, reboot, install, start the programs.
Nope, still no CPU registered.
Obviously the glorious Windoze haven't thrown out the old registerkeys.
Anyone got any solution to this. I surely would like to see with my own eyes that the temp has gone down with, oh, lets say 20 degrees...

-IF I had somehow screwed up the process of crowbar'ing in the CPU, the computer would surely react differently than it is doing. Somehow the sensor is just not responding.

 

I might be on the track of something...
...Could it be that it infact is an Engineering Sample I've got (the T9500), that gives me these problems?

Not a big issue though, since the Dell makes any OC'ing of the CPU nigh possible anyways, afaik.

Because of this issue, I can just as well uninstall RealTemp, and stick to HWMonitor and RivaTuner, putting my attention to the GPU-temp instead. As long as that one keeps within comfortable levels, I'm happy.

 

It shouldn't be too much of a problem for me, I have a rework station and access to an electronics lab (although I'd prefer not to resolder BGA).

I'm hoping for these proprietary format there are technical specifications?
Otherwise, in a month, I should have enough time to check out the IO of the monitor and so, a couple of oscilloscopes, some wave generators and a good few weekends should do the trick.

I'm also currently working on a power converter design that I might be able to implement straight to the GPU, supplying power to run a desktop card.

My main problem is fitting it into the physical frame, which is why I'm looking at 15" motherboards, which should give me enough room.

All this talk is theory right now, though. A new batch of fish just came in, and the old ones are going out, so it'll be a while until I've time to myself.

EDIT: Problems
- Lost favourite screwdriver recently
- BIOS compatibility; either flash with modded BIOS or use desktop 8600 GT

 

Could you elaborate? Is there a screenshot showing the error of your process? The error has to be accurate in order to debug it. Also, ES CPUs do not have temperature monitoring.

If you want temperature monitoring a QS or OEM CPU is what you need. Also, you should have probably asked the seller or us and we can help you before your purchase.

Have you also updated your BIOS to version A09?

 

This was all the confirmation i needed.
Again. I am not sweating it. The gfx will always be the hotter one in my system, and needs to be kept an eye on, and that sensor works well.
No need for screenshots this time.
And yes, of course, I have the A09. I am not a complete dolt.

 

Good to hear. And what the temps you are getting for your GPU?

 

Okay, Okay. I give in. Here is a picture from when the computer is idling overnight;

 

That's fine, but 63*C idling for an 8600M GT is a little bit high. (45-50*C idling here) But those are your idling temperatures. However I'm more concerned about your average gaming temperatures. You could probably try apply thermal paste on the core of the 8600M as that's what I did.

Hey that's a cool wallpaper btw.

 

I agree, that is seems a bit high, but I have to add, that the gfx has always had a high temp, and not to forget that HWMonitor seems to show higher temps (-notice the Riva-window, and you'll see the temp shows 56).

To add to that, HWMonitor's difference in, let's call it 'actual' temperature vs. Riva's seems to decrease in difference, the more higher temperature the sytem has. Could it be some sort of 'software programming algorithm' that does that, perhaps? -Again, this is on a purely subjective theory based on knowing my computer, and being able to follow the temperature/programs rendering trend, without neccesarily having to put up screenshots to have others verify the empirical data... ...to lazy for that.

I have been oogling the internet on the divergence in temp in the different programs, and it seems that there is a certain congruence in just that, that HWMonitor shows off approx 5 degree 'wrong' at lower temps.

Don't arrest me on that, -just my subjective conclusion to the great almighty internet.

Again, another reason to why I want HWMonitor as an opposite reference to RivaTuner. Better to take two results and average it, than getting burnt, litterally.

Recent average gaming temps, 83, max. Since the cleaning and installment of the new CPU. As you know, it is quite normal. translated, it just means that it isn't as overclockable as for instance yours. -That's my next step by the way.
I know 83 will be safe, and it won't challenge my nostrils of a burnt table (trust me, the table was scorched before I got around to start taking the temp. -that's when i became member here, btw.

Being a lefthandie, keeping the hand and mouse next to the heat-outlet gives concerns when the hand starts to feel that burning sensation of holding a hot plate. Kind of gives thoughts; "Hm, maybe I should do something about that heat..."

Now, I've got room to increase the temp, by OC'ing, because i know what the computer can take.

I will slap on some paste the next time I open it, next week propably. it will do wonders, that is correct. Another mission I am on, is to build a 'Bear123 Stirling-Engined Heat Dispenser' (R) (TM) in the useless pcixpress-slot. I'll try to use a 5.56mm rifle cartridge (empty, without the primer, of course), a danish 5 kroner (it's got that nifty hole in the middle) and some magnetic dust. That will drive a small fan that will be pushing some air channeled through coppertubing thats being heated by the ambient hot air.

83 is just too high. The answer to life the universe and everything is 42, but i'd be happy with 72.

-And thank you on that wallpaper, yeah, I have a weakness for sexy dark elves. Kinky and dangerous.

Edit: NOT average temp. My MAX temp, after hours of Dawn of War II, is 83. -I don't do average.

 

It is fun to tinker about these computers.
After getting everything into place, the hardware and the software, the time of testing its stability was due.

I had OC'd the 8600M GT with just a little bit, since having a high idling temperature, I believed I wouldn't be able to go 'all out' with this one. Adjusting only a few MHz did surprisingly not affect the rise in temperature too much, though, compared to what it made while idling.

I chose to overclock to SomeFormOFhuman settings, temp acceptable, in the sense that my computer had been hotter than this, before the system was upgraded and cleaned.

It worked for a while, but during gaming, the experience was that I was giving the gpu/memory a brainbleed. Ocasional freeze or pink artefacts showed up. Only one thing to do. shut down, and reduce clockspeed.

I ended up with timing the 8600M GT to 540/1080/410.40.
Quite happy with that. More speed than I have had for the last three years, and it's stable, and the computer aren't running hot until after aprox 3 hours of heavy duty gaming. -After 3 hours, a break from the computer is a good thing anyway, so it suits me fine that it need too cool down at that moment, and not earlier. So what is hot in my book? -Anything where the gpu goes over 83 degree Celsius. 80-82 ok, but as soon as it reaches 83, the OC'ing is affected by the heat.

How stable it is?
Quite good.
Through to my external monitor, I am watching a two windows, Boinc Manager/Rosetta@home-folding program, and Vuze Bittorent with 6 DL running at the moment. -As well as Dawn of War 2 is running on main laptop display.
In other words, the whole system is being used. The CPU, the harddrives, and the gpu.

Me likes.

 

Thinking I was happy...

...I was having a cup of coffee, oogling the internet for anything remotely close to the term 'Inspiron 1720', and found some articles/posts of undervolting the CPU, to reduce heat and power consumption. The latter part is not that important to me, per se. I am not a ecoglobalveggie of any sort. (I do throw litter where litter belongs, though.)

The undervolting part was on the otherhand interesting , since my computer (gpu) definitly was(!) in the upper specter of heat production.

So I downloaded and installed the RightMark CPU Clock Utility.
After a quick read through an excellent post regarding it (Sorry, didn't keep the link to it...), I undervolted the CPU down to 1.1000V, at full multiplier.
Dead stable. Reduced temp. Happy Camper. -Almost!

The next issue was somewhat bewildering. I hadn't experienced that the GPU would underclock itself. Well, it did now. After scratching my beard for a while, I 'discovered' the not so unfamiliar topic about The PowerMizer.

I do see the purpose for such a, uh, 'design', but for overclockers, it belongs to a hot corner of hell.

After some more searching around I found The Powermizer Switch
An excellent app that with a click of the mousebutton, it deactivates the PowerMisery.

The end result of the educational ordeal is;
My CPU is undervolted to 1.1V
MyGPU is Clocked to 558/1116/410,40 MHz
The max temp I manage to get it to now, is 'only' 73 degrees. Quite a reduction from when I started this thread.
The low (idle) temp is a mere 58-59
The reason why it is 'this high', is purely because of the idle temp of the GPU. The CPU creates so little heat, that the fan hardly finds a reason to power up.
The fan is running, but the air that comes out actually feels cold to the skin.
The system temp is less than 40.

I am very happy as it is now.