Latest on the NVIDIA GPU Issue for Dell Laptop Customers

From Electronista:

From Direct2Dell.com:

Perhaps extended warranties to those affected are forthcoming?

 

I find it rather interesting that the FX350M in the M65 is also affected, as it's based on the Geforce 7300/7400.

 

It may be worth just listing un affected models soon >.<. What is left unaffected? Vostro 1500/1700 and Inspiron 1520/1720?

 

I am glad the 1500 was not on that list. Gives me a small sigh of relief I guess. But it is strange that the 1400 was on there but not the 1500 or the 1700. Hm.

 

might have to do with the fact that the 1400 has a smaller casing -- and most likely a vastly different cooling system to boot.

Almost makes me wish I would have gotten the 1500 last year instead of a 1400... I can confirm that the 8400m GPU i have is hittin the fan. Hopefully a mobo replacement will help the situation.

I would love to see Dell upgrade affected GPU's to the 9 series (wishful dreaming), but I would also be content if Dell extended my warranty by another year for free.

 

Actually it is roumered to be because of it being a solderd card. The only 2 that are left are the only two that could be affected that have "upgradable" or non soldered boards.

 

My 2 cents...

Notice how they still wont come forward and verify newly ordered machines are OK? As I have maintained from the start, they are continuing to sell units affected by this issue and are just throwing out a BIOS update to kick the fans on - low/high/intermittent, I dont care... Bottom line is they are pimping a product that (more than likely) has a GPU that has a weak die. If they fail or not is not the issue, the issue is nvidia says it has a problem and they are still being sold.

I envision a great repository of these GPUs in some 'Raiders of the Lost Ark' type warehouse @ Dell... Everytime a system is ordered or a replacement part has to go out to the OnSite Tech guy for warranty work, a little guy goes running to the box marked 'NVIDIA GPUs'.

I'm hoping that Dell clarifies this soon.

 

They won't cus they can't. It's still the same GPU and they've all been made now I would think - Nvidia's fabs have moved on and I doubt the 8 series are still being produced in any quanitity. Probably some in warehousing but doubt theres much in the way of new production. My guess it's inherent in the entire series when coupled with less than adequate cooling and is something that Nvidia needed to show up very early on in testing so changes could be made. Case of Horse and Stable here.
On the supply point maybe Dell will have some new series GPU equipped boards made for those of us with MXM cards or new soldered-on motherboards. May happen as I'd guess the only recourse should a replacement part not be available would be a current machine of equal spec with an unaffected GPU. Doubt it though. Should be interesting to see how they handle it.

Looks like Dell will be doing the honourable thing and extending cover on the affected GPU's so if it fails after normal warranty it'll still be fixed, as HP have done. It's certainly better than a costly, both financially and in perception, recall and lets them still appear to care about the customer.

Guess we best wait for the terms .....

 

Does the source site have any real connection to Dell, or is it just someone's blog?

 

Its Dells blog for consumer/customer affairs.

 

OK. Thanks.

 

So is the D630 affected or not? I have seen a few lists floating around and
some list the quadro 135m and others don't. Any one know for certain if this
model is affected by this issue?

This is my travel laptop and rely on it to be in good working condition all the
time. I have not had a problem yet, but this sort of worries me.

 

Direct2Dell lists the D630 and D630c among the affected laptops. They do have a BIOS update for the D630 that you might want to check out.

http://support.dell.com/support/dow...-1&impid=-1&formatcnt=1&libid=1&fileid=261129

 

Do you think they will give me a new one just because of this problem, if I complained.

I have a standard warranty as could not afford the 3 year one.

And to be honest I spent 1500.00 bucks on mine, 750£

I am not happy that my computer might be sub-par.

I dont play A lot of games, but I do play a few, and dont see why I should have to settle for second rate crap.

 

Keep in mind that this isn't Dell's/HP's/Asus' fault. It's Nvidia's.

 

They're still partly responsible if they want to keep a good reputation.

 

mt 1520 with an 8600gt is still overheating constantly so i'm pretty sure at least mine has been affected

 

So back to my question.

Do you think that if I went back to Dell and said Im not happy that this problem has cropped up, and I dont pay £750.00=$1500.00 for nothing and second rate parts, do you think they would give me a new laptop?

XPS 1530
8600GT

 

No. .......

 

This isn't an overheating problem - if you are seeing high temps and artifacting/crashing then you have a heat problem. Either the cooling is inadequate or not working to specs (dust bunnies, rubbish thermal contact).

The problem with Nvidia chips is the packaging material contained in the chip failing due to thermal cycles (warming and cooling) and usually results in multiple images and other general display problems or no video at all. We're not talking overheating causing artifacts in 3D applications.

 

This is not a overheating problems people.. over heating n high temp' can mean anything, starting with basically a heat problem or something messed up with the cooling aspect of your system.. I would try cleaning up the fans, the vents and see how it is.. and also provide good ventilation to the bottom of the laptop >>> Chesie!!!

 

The core issue is that they're not at fault.

However, customers will still blame them, which is precisely why Dell is doing something about it.

Dell/HP are actually doing this to retain their customers/name, not because they're actually responsible.

 

ohhhhh Yeah...

That was really well said mate..

I tried doing this and posts with similar idea / meaning in the direct2dell blog which I frequent, but no... it all keeps falling on deaf ears

Anyway, well said again

 

Thank God Dell did something about it. One of my laptop's warranty was about to finish in a few weeks.
Let's see what the final solution provided by Dell is

 

They are not at fault, but they are responsible if they want to keep up a good reputation. They sold us a product which had a higher than normal defect rate. Yes, Dell and others obviously didn't know about it, and yes, Nvidia is the root of this dilemma.

But as far as most customers would see it, a laptop is just a laptop. They don't see every piece of technology within it. They just know it's a laptop, and that it came from Dell.

They trusted Dell to deliver a nice, working laptop. For many, they've reached satisfaction. They've also met their fair share of dissatisfaction, hence the recent BIOS update.

So yes, Dell isn't the root cause of the issue, but they did sell us the product. They are, if indirectly, responsible for it.

I'm glad they made a statement about it and released a fix.

 

Well, I am glad that Dell has finally decided to pay attention to the whole issue besides a simple bios update. I believe the (my) best solution is for Dell to come out with a 9-series card for the upgradable laptops. *cough* vostros *cough* However, it will NOT be free, but sold at a discounted price. Therefore, the owners of those laptops, can have the option to replace the card if it does fail in the future (at their cost of course). In addition, Dell can make some money out of those people who just want an upgrade. :O For the laptops with soldered GPUs, the owners get extended warranties. Well, I really hope dell takes my suggestion, but I know it won't happen.....dell is too proprietary.

 

make the replacements for the new 9m gpu free as the people probably paid good money and aren't going to want to pay more to get what i believe is what they paid fro the first place: a working product free from defects.

 

haha wow dell isn't dumb they'll check out your laptop before doing that, find no problems, and blacklist you as a scammer

 

wywern209
Well, I agreed that Dell should provide the GPU for free as well, after all we paid to get our Dell laptops. However, I believe that it has to have some incentive in order for Dell to put out new GPU for the older models of laptops. Remember that Dell is known for its Proprietary components, without incentives it is unlikely Dell will break its own tradition.

 

Dell and other OEMs are responsible to a degree - Nvidia deems some of the cooling in the OEM designs inadequate and that's why they are halving the costs with the OEMs ($200 million from Nvidia at the mo but likely to cost them more depending how it all works out).

 

Dell is still mum on the status of the Vostro 1500 in all of this. I'm getting concerned that we're going to be hung out to dry because the Vostro 1500's were among the first units with the defective gpu's, are no longer in production (about 1 model year), and many (including my own) are already out of warranty (standard 1 year).

So, from Dell's standpoint, they have major retooling costs because these cards are soldered onto the motherboard, they can't apply the costs to paid warranty service, and the Vostro is their business "budget" line and these are not customers who would otherwise be buying many expensive machines every year. In other words, it is a niche market they only went after a year ago and that they can afford to lose in their minds.

At least, this is how it is appearing based on Dell's refusal to include the Vostro 1500 in the list of effected machines, and their refusal to publicly state that the machines are uneffected (which I don't see how they can, since the 8600M GT's in these machines are obviously defective).

This is very upsetting because the Vostro 1500 was the first unit to receive (very quietly) the thermal regulation bios "fix" -- back in JUNE!!! That tells me that Dell knew about this problem much sooner than they have let on, and that they are are least CONSIDERING screwing the owners of Vostro 1500's. Please Dell: prove me wrong!

 

I think if you contacted Dell and stated you are not satisfied with the response from Dell on this issue and that you are fully aware based on the information Dell has released there is a possible problem with your system - you want a full refund or option to upgrade - I think its a legit argument.

Dell has stated certain models "could experience graphics card problems caused by weak die/packaging material set from some NVIDIA mobile GPUs". This is clearly a defect on those units which exhibit the symptoms of "multiple images, random characters on the screen, lines on the screen or you have no video signal" as Dell has stated.

If I had recently purchased one of these systems, I would be on the phone as of Dell's first blog post demanding a refund or an alternative option (i.e. upgrade to another model with an unaffected GPU).

Regardless of whether or not it has failed, will fail or may fail - I just dont believe in spending money on something that is defective. But then again, thats just the way I see it. There are many others in the user community who are perfectly willing to accept Dell's response as okay and in the end, thats fine too. Each to their own friends...

 

The Vostro 1500 doesn't have the GPU soldered to the mainboard - it's on Dells MXM replacable card like the 1700/i1720 and i1520.

 

*wishful thinking - but are the vostro 1400's MXM cards too?"

 

The last 1500 Bios Update (A06) had nothing to do with adjusting the thermal controls.

I searched the Dell support forums over on Dell Talk, and could not find a single video failure complaint for the 1500.

 

Unfortunately no - GPU on the 1400 is a "discrete down" configuration which means the video card is soldered to the system board (assuming the V1400 is the same machine as the i1420 which as far as I know it is).

 

I guess i'm SOL then.

As long as I get some kind of extended warranty i'll be satisfied...

 

Check A05, "Added enhancement for thermal control." Bios update dated 2/4/2008. Hmmmm ...

 

No, what the latest bios update does is kick the fans in at lower temperatures, but what actually matters is the fact that the fans kick on as soon as you start the computer to offset the sudden heat rush that occurs at startup.

 

Also, if the gpu is on a separate card (glad to hear that, thanks for the info!), why are they refusing to acknowledge any problem with the V1500? I just don't get it. And, I'm hardly what you'd call a "Dell basher;" I have purchased 3 Latitudes and 1 Vostro in the past 16 months, but after this ... this is my last Dell. Why should I give them any more money when they won't even acknowledge a problem?

Lastly, for those who stick up for Dell and state that NVidia's cop out that mfg's cooling systems are partially to blame, I do agree with that. BUT, the cooling system of the Vostro 1500 was just a HORRIBLE design. The gpu and cpu are up top, the vents are lower left side, there are not enough vents, and the fan is either not powerful enough or not placed in an optimum cooling position. This helps exascerbate the heat cycling problem in that game brings a huge heat increase which is not adequately controlled. An otherwise great laptop (if you can call it a laptop, since if you put it on your lap, be prepared to visit your local burn unit) ruined by an easily avoidable design flaw in a relatively simple subsystem. sigh ...

 

Theres a difference between having a separate card and a soldered chip. A soldered chip has is impacted more from heat cycling than a separate card/graphics assembly like the V1500 is.

 

sorry about overposting, but I just realized why my heat problem has become REALLY bad of late -- the February bios update caused the fan to run more! Why do I have the feeling that my fan burned out a while back? (I generally leave it on 24hrs a day as a dtr.)

 

Thanks for clearing this up Steve. People need to know this information. This is why the 1500, 1520, 1700, and 1720 aren't on the list. Separate cards rock.

 

I still don't understand though, the problem was supposed to be with the chip's packaging which is the chip itself on the BGA packaging which is the same whether on the MXM card or not. And on top of that, even the GPU must be soldered onto a board whether it be the MXM board or the motherboard so I would think the problems would exist either way.

 

It's one of the reasons. The 15" and 17" machines tend to have better cooling too and make less of a compromise in that department so combined with the fact that the GPU is kept away from the other main heat sources (CPU and Northbridge) they are less likely to fail. Seems to be born out as the M1330 first started to show problems.

The same defect exists in the entire line but it's less likely to show itself in the larger machines with better cooling.

 

I agree, all of them should be listed.

The bios was updated in the 1720 for thermal control but dell does not have it on the list. Makes you wonder.

 

Exactly my point (you said it much better).

 

I have definitely heard otherwise, especially when put in comparison with other machines with 8600m Chip such as the Asus laptop. Even through, the card is DDR3, the temp sensor is still on the core itself, so the large difference in temperature has to due to the fact that the vostro has a better thermal design. My 1500 never reach 70 C while I heard other laptops running from 85 C and even higher.

 

Mine has reached 92 C!!!!

 

beat 103c, and i'll give you a cookie